The Old School questions thread

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Was Sid going to be brought back in 1996 regardless of Warrior bailing on them, or did the WWF go out and get Sid after Warrior left?

Sid would have returned eventually, but the Warrior situation only hastened it. As a matter of fact, Sid wasn't the first choice to replace Warrior. Bret Hart was called first to replace Warrior, but declined, believing, correctly, that his return shouldn't be done in such a manner, with no build-up whatsoever.

[JoeDirt 0]

Why did the WWF sign Brian Pillman in 1996 when he wasn't even able to wrestle a match for them until a year later? Did he get hurt after he signed, or was he signed while injured? They must have thought he was going to be able to wrestle if when they introduced him as a character and ran storylines with him and Austin, etc...can someone explain this?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Why did the WWF sign Brian Pillman in 1996 when he wasn't even able to wrestle a match for them until a year later? Did he get hurt after he signed, or was he signed while injured? They must have thought he was going to be able to wrestle if when they introduced him as a character and ran storylines with him and Austin, etc...can someone explain this?

Pillman was negotiating with WCW and the WWF at the same time, before he got injured. When he did get injured, he was afraid he'd blown his chance to get a good contract, and so downplayed his injuries to both parties. Pillman went with the WWF because Eric Bischoff refused to remove a couple of clauses in the contract he was offering Pillman, one of which was WCW's right to terminate the contract if Pillman was unable to wrestle for 90 days. WWF still did angles with Pillman, because it was believed that he'd be able to wrestle by the end of the year. However, by flying all over the place for Raw, etc, Pillman didn't allow for his ankle to heal properly, which is they ran the angle where Austin 'broke' Pillman's ankle, so Pillman could get it fixed again, and let it heal properly.

[JoeDirt 0]

Found this old Meltzer post at the WC board:

 

"Actually, if Hogan had admitted using them before being under oath in 1994, and if he hadn't been forced while under oath to admit he had been lying to the media and on Arsenio Hall for years, the entire modern history of wrestling would be different."

 

Can someone explain why?

[BUTT 0]

I apologize if these questions have been asked before.

 

Was anyone other than Vince McMahon going to be the higher power?

 

Was the Survivor Series egg always supposed to be the Gobbley Gooker?

Oddly enough they were both originally supposed to be Owen Hart.

So the Blue Blazer, who went from a legendary feud with Steve Blackman to another memorable feud with the Godfather, was going to be the #1 heel in the company.

Owen Hart was someone from Austin's past, afterall, and Austin "looked like he had seen a ghost" when he saw the face of the higher power...

By the time Austin saw the Higher Power (a week before everyone else did), Owen was already a ghost.

Kind of my point, chump.

I'm fairly sure that this was never supposed to happen. The only speculation I've ever heard about Owen being the higher power was dumb internet rumors that Owen's death was a giant work and was part of the angle leading up to the big unmasking of the higher power. Other people rumored for the spot at the time included Jake Roberts and Mike Tyson, but it was pretty obvious that none of these things were going to take place. I would bet Vince was always supposed to be the higher power, because while Russo has a reputation for shocking and surprising twists and turns, his swerves have always been pretty easy to predict.

[BUTT 0]

Was Sid going to be brought back in 1996 regardless of Warrior bailing on them, or did the WWF go out and get Sid after Warrior left?

Sid would have returned eventually, but the Warrior situation only hastened it. As a matter of fact, Sid wasn't the first choice to replace Warrior. Bret Hart was called first to replace Warrior, but declined, believing, correctly, that his return shouldn't be done in such a manner, with no build-up whatsoever.

Do you have any idea what the plans were for Warrior? Was a Warrior/Michaels title match ever in the plans.

 

Another thing : what exactly were the circumstances leading to Sid facing HBK at Survivor Series '96 instead of Vader. I've heard that Michaels refused to job to Vader, and I've also heard that Vader was injured at the time, and they put him in an 8-man tag match to protect him. I'm pretty sure Vader was originally supposed to have a rematch with Michaels at Survivor Series, because at the time my dad used to get a cable industry magazine which had the ads for PPVs months before they took place, and the ad for Survivor Series featured the faces of HBK, Vader, Hart and Austin, but by the time the event was near, the ad as seen in WWF Magazine featured Sid instead of Vader.

[Guest Frank_Nabbit]

I apologize if these questions have been asked before.

 

Was anyone other than Vince McMahon going to be the higher power?

 

Was the Survivor Series egg always supposed to be the Gobbley Gooker?

Oddly enough they were both originally supposed to be Owen Hart.

So the Blue Blazer, who went from a legendary feud with Steve Blackman to another memorable feud with the Godfather, was going to be the #1 heel in the company.

Owen Hart was someone from Austin's past, afterall, and Austin "looked like he had seen a ghost" when he saw the face of the higher power...

By the time Austin saw the Higher Power (a week before everyone else did), Owen was already a ghost.

Kind of my point, chump.

I'm fairly sure that this was never supposed to happen. The only speculation I've ever heard about Owen being the higher power was dumb internet rumors that Owen's death was a giant work and was part of the angle leading up to the big unmasking of the higher power. Other people rumored for the spot at the time included Jake Roberts and Mike Tyson, but it was pretty obvious that none of these things were going to take place. I would bet Vince was always supposed to be the higher power, because while Russo has a reputation for shocking and surprising twists and turns, his swerves have always been pretty easy to predict.

Vince even brought up Jake Roberts that night as one of the options...

 

The he "gaurenteed" (Sp?) that it wasn't a MCMahon

 

 

Then he wrestled Shane IIRC

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

my dad used to get a cable industry magazine which had the ads for PPVs months before they took place, and the ad for Survivor Series featured the faces of HBK, Vader, Hart and Austin, but by the time the event was near, the ad as seen in WWF Magazine featured Sid instead of Vader.

This poster can also be seen in the Poster Gallery on the Survivor Series 2002 DVD

[alfdogg 0]

What if the Higher Power was Ted DiBiase.

[Guest Frank_Nabbit]

What if the Higher Power was Ted DiBiase.

2 million people would've said "Who is that old guy?"

 

Then 1 million people would say "Hey that's the guy who funded the NWO"

 

 

 

and 500000 people would then say, "I thought he was the Steiners manager"

 

and 5000 smarks would say " Oh god I'm cumming"

[BUTT 0]

Here's a question that probably has been asked in this thread, but I'm not going to read through 46 pages to find out: How did Demolition turn heel after WM6? And how was Crush brought in? Was there an angle done to bring him in? And on Cawthon's site, it refers to Crush in his first couple of matches as "BA". Was he ever referred to on TV by this name?

[spman 0]

Here's a question that probably has been asked in this thread, but I'm not going to read through 46 pages to find out: How did Demolition turn heel after WM6? And how was Crush brought in? Was there an angle done to bring him in? And on Cawthon's site, it refers to Crush in his first couple of matches as "BA". Was he ever referred to on TV by this name?

I believe it was the increased antimosity between them and the Hart Foundation that led them to turn heel. The fans were siding more then the Harts then the Demos so they had Demolition cut a screw the fans type promo. As for the Crush deal, straight from Herb Kunze's RSPW news update on 6/11/90

 

"- Brian Adams (?) is Demolition's new partner. He will fight has B.A., which

stands for Bad Attitude. He has apparently already made appearances at

house shows featuring Demolition vs. Hart Foundation, interfering on

behalf of Demolition who win with a screw job or get disqualified.

Perhaps Vince is going to make the Warriors faces after all. ."

[BUTT 0]

Well then, here are some other Demolition questions: How did Mr. Fuji get to be Demolition's manager again during their second heel run? Just exactly how old is Bill Eadie (Ax), because I remember reading that he was in his mid-to-late 40s during Demolition's run. And is it true that he was one of the fake Stings at Halloween Havoc 2000?

[JoeDirt 0]

What are the biggest non-Wrestlemania buyrates of all time?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What are the biggest non-Wrestlemania buyrates of all time?

As far as the most buys for a non-WM PPV, that goes to Invasion, which got around 740,000 buys.

[cawthon777 0]

Well then, here are some other Demolition questions: How did Mr. Fuji get to be Demolition's manager again during their second heel run? Just exactly how old is Bill Eadie (Ax), because I remember reading that he was in his mid-to-late 40s during Demolition's run. And is it true that he was one of the fake Stings at Halloween Havoc 2000?

I believe he was one of the fake Stings.

 

I'm leaning towards Eadie being in his mid to late 30s, not 40s, during the Demolition run. Could be wrong. I met him about a year ago and he didn't seem THAT old, certainly not in his 60s.

[deancoles 0]

How did Mr. Fuji get to be Demolition's manager again during their second heel run?

During a Legion of Doom/Orient Express match on Superstars(a few weeks before Survivor Series 90) they ran in while the LOD were in control causing a dq, afterwards there was a 5 on 2 attack.

[BHK 0]

Well then, here are some other Demolition questions: How did Mr. Fuji get to be Demolition's manager again during their second heel run?  Just exactly how old is Bill Eadie (Ax), because I remember reading that he was in his mid-to-late 40s during Demolition's run.  And is it true that he was one of the fake Stings at Halloween Havoc 2000?

I believe he was one of the fake Stings.

 

I'm leaning towards Eadie being in his mid to late 30s, not 40s, during the Demolition run. Could be wrong. I met him about a year ago and he didn't seem THAT old, certainly not in his 60s.

IMDB credits him as one of the Stings. Doesn't give a date of birth so we can ahve an age though

 

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0247025/

[Precious Roy 0]

Eadie debuted around the mid 1970's, he was a teacher and football coach before that, probably in his mid-late 20's, so my guess is he was in his late 30's/early 40's during Demolition's run. I can't find his actual birthday anywhere though.

[Guest HTQ's Personal Bitch]

What are the biggest non-Wrestlemania buyrates of all time?

I don't have any numbers in front of me but wasn't the buyrate for Starrcade 97 huge?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What are the biggest non-Wrestlemania buyrates of all time?

If you're talking strictly about the buy rate rather than the number of actual buys, then I believe the biggest non-WM buy rate is a 7.0 for the 1987 Survivor Series.

[Some Guy 0]

[Another thing : what exactly were the circumstances leading to Sid facing HBK at Survivor Series '96 instead of Vader. I've heard that Michaels refused to job to Vader, and I've also heard that Vader was injured at the time, and they put him in an 8-man tag match to protect him. I'm pretty sure Vader was originally supposed to have a rematch with Michaels at Survivor Series, because at the time my dad used to get a cable industry magazine which had the ads for PPVs months before they took place, and the ad for Survivor Series featured the faces of HBK, Vader, Hart and Austin, but by the time the event was near, the ad as seen in WWF Magazine featured Sid instead of Vader.

In his shoot interview Vader says that Vince promised that he'd beat Shawn at Survivor Series, drop the belt to Bret (I'm guessing at the Rumble), win it back (Final Four, I assume), and then drop it to Shawn again (Raw?) (who would then presumably drop it to Bret at WM 13). Seems like too many changes to me but they did end up going Shawn-Sid-Shawn-Bret-Sid-Taker in that same time span. But Summerslam 96 didn't have a good buyrate so plans changed and Sid got the spot. Vader's reasoning for the low buyrate acually makes sense. He and Shawn worked house shows for 2 months and Shawn beat Vader with the kick at just about every one of then (Cawthon's site verifies this), Vader assumes that the house show audience is basically the PPV audience (which is likely) and since they'd already seen Shawn beat him they didn't bother to pay to see the match.

 

I believe that he was going to get the belt at Survivor Series if for no other reason than the Dec 96 PPV being called "It's Time" and Vader's catch phrase being "Vader time". It's a shame that he didn't get the strap because he had good matches with Shawn and Bret, while Sid didn't.

 

He was also going to beat Rocky for the IC title but got arrested in Kuwait and Owen got the spot. He said that in his shoot as well.

 

And he was scheduled to take the WCW belt back from Flair at Superbrawl 94 (sub title "The Revenge of Vader" but Flair got the book just before the show and decided that Vader shoudl tap to the figure four.

 

He also was supposed to beat Hogan for the belt (or at least should have) in 95 and then drop it back to him but Hogan instead decided to no sell his finish and beat him by DQ, by dragging Flair around the ring in a strap match, and no sell his finish again and escape the cage at BatB in effect killing Vader's WCW career.

[BHK 0]

Vader's reasoning for the low buyrate acually makes sense. He and Shawn worked house shows for 2 months and Shawn beat Vader with the kick at just about every one of then (Cawthon's site verifies this), Vader assumes that the house show audience is basically the PPV audience (which is likely) and since they'd already seen Shawn beat him they didn't bother to pay to see the match.

Doesn't WWE test run matches at house shows all the time, though?

[Some Guy 0]

Vader's reasoning for the low buyrate acually makes sense.  He and Shawn worked house shows for 2 months and Shawn beat Vader with the kick at just about every one of then (Cawthon's site verifies this), Vader assumes that the house show audience is basically the PPV audience (which is likely) and since they'd already seen Shawn beat him they didn't bother to pay to see the match. 

Doesn't WWE test run matches at house shows all the time, though?

They do, but not usually for two months.

 

According to Cawthon's site HBK/Vader happened for the first time on 6/27/96 and Shawn won with the kick. They had 20 house show matches (including a few Raw tapings) leading up to Summerslam and Shawn won almost all of them with the kick (sometimes in a few minutes and once in 21 seconds) a few were DQs. And there might have been a few more matches as some of the results are incomplete.

 

So I think Vader has a point. Plus they ran the angle were he debuted at the RR and then beat the shit out of Monsoon on Raw and was suspended (he needed shoulder surgery). When he came back they stucj him in Camp Cornette doing 6 mans with Owen and Davey and then a stupid feud with Yolozuna (where at least Vader went over, but played a coward during the matches). He was booked pretty badly after the initial Rumble and Raw debut.

 

I'm not really a Vader apologist but this was really stupid on Vicne's part. They booked him to be just another guy, when he should have been a monster. They did the same shit with Goldberg and it didn't work either time. And with both guys they really needed to push them strong because business was in the shitter in 96 and declining rapidily in 2003. But letting foolish anti-WCW pride get in the way of good business is Vince's forte'.

[cawthon777 0]

I believe that he was going to get the belt at Survivor Series if for no other reason than the Dec 96 PPV being called "It's Time" and Vader's catch phrase being "Vader time".

I thought for sure he was beating Sid at Buried Alive. 6 days prior on Raw, he and Cornette went over HBK and Lothario when Vader pinned HBK clean with the Vader Bomb.

 

Of course the match was taped almost a month previous, before Vader sustained his injury.

[cawthon777 0]

So I think Vader has a point. Plus they ran the angle were he debuted at the RR and then beat the shit out of Monsoon on Raw and was suspended (he needed shoulder surgery). When he came back they stucj him in Camp Cornette doing 6 mans with Owen and Davey and then a stupid feud with Yolozuna (where at least Vader went over, but played a coward during the matches). He was booked pretty badly after the initial Rumble and Raw debut.

I think Vader was booked very strongly until the fall and his loss to Sid.

 

Yes, he worked 6 man tags but look at the end result. Vader pins Jake Roberts clean at WrestleMania, when Roberts had a lot of momentum and fan support on his side. That was Jake's first TV loss after returning.

 

Then at International Incident, he pins HBK clean with the Vader Bomb. Shawn was only pinned twice on TV during his title run and both times were to Vader.

 

The Yoko feud did portray Vader as a monster. On the 4/8/96 Raw, Vader practically humiliated Yoko by hitting the Vader Bomb on his leg, seemingly breaking it. Yoko had to be taken to the back on a forklift. No one had ever been able to actually hurt Yoko.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The only problem with Vader's pin over Michaels at II, was that it was caused by blatant interference from Cornette, and Michaels got his heat back within seconds, doing a big plancha dive onto Vader at ringside. It kind of makes the pin lose all meaning if the guy getting pinned is up, running about, and getting his heat back five seconds later.

[Guest Loss]

Not to mention that the first segment of the next night's show had him putting a birthday cake in Sunny's face and eating off of it. He obviously wasn't too bothered about losing the match.

[Some Guy 0]

The Yoko feud did portray Vader as a monster. On the 4/8/96 Raw, Vader practically humiliated Yoko by hitting the Vader Bomb on his leg, seemingly breaking it. Yoko had to be taken to the back on a forklift. No one had ever been able to actually hurt Yoko.

Watch IYH: Beware of Dog and see Vader play a Memphis heel in his match against Yoko. They were doing the Sumo deal and Vader kept false starting and when he went for it he got flattened. He did win teh match and reinjure Yoko's leg but it was after playing a chickenshit during the bout.

 

If Vince had booked him like WCW did then he would have been the monster heel that WWF badly needed in 96. They had no one, they used Bulldog for two straight PPVs because there was no one else. Vader/Shawn should have gone like Vader/Sting did. I would have booked it with Vader beating the fuck out of Shawn and taking his title at Summerslam (Shawn attacks him right away and loses because he was overly aggressive and gets caught by Vader), Vader beats Shawn to retain with the story being that Shawn was too passive waiting to get get his shot in and was never able to at Survivor Series, Vader beats Bret at "It's Time" but Shawn gets upset thinking that he should have had the shot and the slow build for Bret/Shawn II at WM 13 begins), then have Shawn get the win and the strap at Royal Rumble in San Antonio with the story being that he finally figured out how to adapt and avoid Vader's onslaught. Both guys would have come out of that more over and there would have been three great PPV matches. Shawn would actually be a sympathtic babyface as he would have been beaten down and left for dead and Vader a monster heel and they could have always gone back to the match if neither guy had anything else to do for an IYH PPV or as a Raw main event. If anyone cares i would have had Bret beat Shawn at WM 13 and then move into a feud with Vader before having having Shawn get the belt back at Summerslam or Survivor Series 97.

 

I realize that Shawn would have pissed and moaned and for politcial reasons it couldn't have gone down that way but that would have been much more effective booking. Hell, I don't think Vader and Shawn ever really had a blowoff match. Summerslam was a joke with the DQ/Countout/Moonsault finishes. They basically blew 3 PPVs and 6 months of storyline in one night.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

"and 5000 smarks would say " Oh god I'm cumming"

 

LMAO...That's what I almost said when I read this.