The Old School questions thread

[alfdogg 0]

At what point did the WWF change from having Bret face Shawn at WMXIII to facing Austin?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

You would think the Thursday Raw that Shanw gave up the belt caused the change of plans, but in re-watching the build on 24/7, you have Sid cutting a promo on Bret and Shawn that Taker interupts to set that up, plus Bret vs Austin was a major plot point in the 97 Rumble ending.

[CanadianChris 0]

You would think the Thursday Raw that Shanw gave up the belt caused the change of plans, but in re-watching the build on 24/7, you have Sid cutting a promo on Bret and Shawn that Taker interupts to set that up, plus Bret vs Austin was a major plot point in the 97 Rumble ending.

Sid vs. Taker, I believe, was always planned, just not for the belt. The ending of the Rumble was planned to set up the #1 Contender's match at Final Four, and was believable since Austin and Bret had been feuding for months prior.

 

I've always been curious as to what the original plans were for Austin if they'd gone ahead with Bret vs. Shawn at WMXIII.

[Diamonddust 0]

You would think the Thursday Raw that Shanw gave up the belt caused the change of plans, but in re-watching the build on 24/7, you have Sid cutting a promo on Bret and Shawn that Taker interupts to set that up, plus Bret vs Austin was a major plot point in the 97 Rumble ending.

Sid vs. Taker, I believe, was always planned, just not for the belt, and the Austin-Bret feud had been running for months.

 

I've always been curious as to what the original plans were for Austin if they'd gone ahead with Bret vs. Shawn at WMXIII.

 

Possibly the special guest referee spot that Shamrock ended up getting.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

IIRC Final Four was originally Hart Vs. Austin Vs. Sid Vs. Michaels

[MDH257 0]

You would think the Thursday Raw that Shanw gave up the belt caused the change of plans, but in re-watching the build on 24/7, you have Sid cutting a promo on Bret and Shawn that Taker interupts to set that up, plus Bret vs Austin was a major plot point in the 97 Rumble ending.

Sid vs. Taker, I believe, was always planned, just not for the belt. The ending of the Rumble was planned to set up the #1 Contender's match at Final Four, and was believable since Austin and Bret had been feuding for months prior.

 

I've always been curious as to what the original plans were for Austin if they'd gone ahead with Bret vs. Shawn at WMXIII.

 

I don't think there was any solid plans, but around January they were hoping Pillman would be ready to come back by Mania and face Austin. Of Course that was never going to pan out.

[CanadianChris 0]

IIRC Final Four was originally Hart Vs. Austin Vs. Sid Vs. Michaels

No, it was always supposed to be Hart vs. Austin vs. Vader vs. Taker. Michaels was supposed to defend against Sid on the same show.

[Guest Vishnu]

I'm a total lurker... mostly because I never have anything witty to offer. I do have a burning question I've always wondered about. I guess there was a backstage fight between Taz and Van Dam at some point in 1998. I heard a Shane Douglas shoot interview where he talked about how everyone was pissed after the N2R 98 main event, because Van Dam fucked up the match by stealing the heat from the Douglas/Taz finish of the match, by doing his big hilo off the top onto Bam Bam. I guess Taz and Van Dam got into it afterwards because of that, but I haven't been able to find anything anywhere to confirm it. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this incident and has info on the whole story. Thanks!

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I'm a total lurker... mostly because I never have anything witty to offer. I do have a burning question I've always wondered about. I guess there was a backstage fight between Taz and Van Dam at some point in 1998. I heard a Shane Douglas shoot interview where he talked about how everyone was pissed after the N2R 98 main event, because Van Dam fucked up the match by stealing the heat from the Douglas/Taz finish of the match, by doing his big hilo off the top onto Bam Bam. I guess Taz and Van Dam got into it afterwards because of that, but I haven't been able to find anything anywhere to confirm it. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this incident and has info on the whole story. Thanks!

I don't think the incident in question happened after the N2R, but there was heat over the match because everyone was so intent on getting their spots in that ego's were bruised when the inevitable clusterfuck happened. The incident between Van Dam and Tazz took place backstage after a Van Dam match and Tazz had been bad mouthing Van Dam while it was going on. Van Dam got to the back, heard about Tazz bad mouthing him and asked Tazz, "Which hand?". Tazz asked him what he meant, and Van Dam slapped him. Van Dam repeated the question, but Tazz backed down.

[Guest Vishnu]

I'm a total lurker... mostly because I never have anything witty to offer. I do have a burning question I've always wondered about. I guess there was a backstage fight between Taz and Van Dam at some point in 1998. I heard a Shane Douglas shoot interview where he talked about how everyone was pissed after the N2R 98 main event, because Van Dam fucked up the match by stealing the heat from the Douglas/Taz finish of the match, by doing his big hilo off the top onto Bam Bam. I guess Taz and Van Dam got into it afterwards because of that, but I haven't been able to find anything anywhere to confirm it. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this incident and has info on the whole story. Thanks!

I don't think the incident in question happened after the N2R, but there was heat over the match because everyone was so intent on getting their spots in that ego's were bruised when the inevitable clusterfuck happened. The incident between Van Dam and Tazz took place backstage after a Van Dam match and Tazz had been bad mouthing Van Dam while it was going on. Van Dam got to the back, heard about Tazz bad mouthing him and asked Tazz, "Which hand?". Tazz asked him what he meant, and Van Dam slapped him. Van Dam repeated the question, but Tazz backed down.

 

Thanks for that Hunter. I was never sure of the context, just that Taz had backed down. That really surprises me, since Taz always seemed like a tough guy. I just listened to the Taz shoot interview (posted in the Shoot Interview thread (thanks for that BTW)), where he talked about how Van Dam busted him up with a chairshot during a match, and he took him down with a double leg and "it was on." It's hard to believe that Taz wouldn't answer a slap, and actually back down, unless he really just wanted no part of Rob. Then again, that contradicts the previous double leg. Odd.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Tazz's reputation for being a badass was purely down to his gimmick and how he was booked. A number of wrestlers around at the time have said that Tazz was nowhere the badass he was portrayed as being, but because of how he was booked and how he was able to get the gimmick over, he got the rep of being real shooter. I'm sure Tazz was tough, but not as tough as his image suggested.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Not to take anything from Tazz, but I bet RVD would be able to beat him up pretty well in a legit shoot.

[alfdogg 0]

You would think the Thursday Raw that Shanw gave up the belt caused the change of plans, but in re-watching the build on 24/7, you have Sid cutting a promo on Bret and Shawn that Taker interupts to set that up, plus Bret vs Austin was a major plot point in the 97 Rumble ending.

So they were really still going to do Bret/Shawn all the way up until that point? I would have thought that as hot as the Bret/Austin feud was even in late '96, that they would have changed plans a lot sooner. Of course, the question then is what program would Shawn have had for the big show. Another match with Sid, possibly?

 

A few more questions: What plans, if any, were there for Austin before his walkout in '02 (beyond the stuff with Eddie/Benoit/Flair), as well as when he came back in '03 before he knew he had to retire (meaning was there anything for him beyond WrestleMania XIX)? Also, what about Brock Lesnar had he stuck around?

[CanadianChris 0]

You would think the Thursday Raw that Shanw gave up the belt caused the change of plans, but in re-watching the build on 24/7, you have Sid cutting a promo on Bret and Shawn that Taker interupts to set that up, plus Bret vs Austin was a major plot point in the 97 Rumble ending.

So they were really still going to do Bret/Shawn all the way up until that point? I would have thought that as hot as the Bret/Austin feud was even in late '96, that they would have changed plans a lot sooner. Of course, the question then is what program would Shawn have had for the big show. Another match with Sid, possibly?

No chance of another match with Sid -- the match at Final Four was supposed to blow off the feud before WrestleMania. It was well-known (well-speculated, anyway) that Shawn forfeited the title because he didn't want to job to Bret at Mania, which means the office must have had plans to go ahead with the match.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Sid versus Shawn was supposed to take place again at the Raw Thursday special, with Shawn dropping the WWF Title to Sid to set up Sid defending against The Undertaker at WM XIII. Shawn would then face Bret at WM XIII and put him over there. Shawn wasn't down with that, and 'lost his smile', forcing them to vacate the WWF Title and put it up in the fatal four-way with Bret, Austin, Vader and Undertaker. Presumably, if Shawn had done business and dropped the WWF Title to Sid when he was meant to, Bret still would have won the four-way, as he was set to face Shawn at WM XIII. No idea what Shawn would have done at the PPV with the four-way, but common sense booking says he'd have won a singles match to give him a big win heading into the WM match with Bret.

 

Also, what about Brock Lesnar had he stuck around?

 

Job boy for Undertaker. Beyond that, probably kept reasonably strong in the high end of the midcard and put into the main event scene when needed.

[Diamonddust 0]

Sid versus Shawn was supposed to take place again at the Raw Thursday special, with Shawn dropping the WWF Title to Sid to set up Sid defending against The Undertaker at WM XIII. Shawn would then face Bret at WM XIII and put him over there. Shawn wasn't down with that, and 'lost his smile', forcing them to vacate the WWF Title and put it up in the fatal four-way with Bret, Austin, Vader and Undertaker. Presumably, if Shawn had done business and dropped the WWF Title to Sid when he was meant to, Bret still would have won the four-way, as he was set to face Shawn at WM XIII. No idea what Shawn would have done at the PPV with the four-way, but common sense booking says he'd have won a singles match to give him a big win heading into the WM match with Bret.

 

Also, what about Brock Lesnar had he stuck around?

 

Job boy for Undertaker. Beyond that, probably kept reasonably strong in the high end of the midcard and put into the main event scene when needed.

 

Then you have the question of what would Austin have done at Wrestlemania XIII? Referee for Shawn/Bret?

 

In hindsight, Shawn acting the way he did was the best thing to have happened for McMahon. It allowed him to pull off the double switch and launch Austin's mega-push.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Sid versus Shawn was supposed to take place again at the Raw Thursday special, with Shawn dropping the WWF Title to Sid to set up Sid defending against The Undertaker at WM XIII. Shawn would then face Bret at WM XIII and put him over there. Shawn wasn't down with that, and 'lost his smile', forcing them to vacate the WWF Title and put it up in the fatal four-way with Bret, Austin, Vader and Undertaker. Presumably, if Shawn had done business and dropped the WWF Title to Sid when he was meant to, Bret still would have won the four-way, as he was set to face Shawn at WM XIII. No idea what Shawn would have done at the PPV with the four-way, but common sense booking says he'd have won a singles match to give him a big win heading into the WM match with Bret.

 

Also, what about Brock Lesnar had he stuck around?

 

Job boy for Undertaker. Beyond that, probably kept reasonably strong in the high end of the midcard and put into the main event scene when needed.

 

Then you have the question of what would Austin have done at Wrestlemania XIII? Referee for Shawn/Bret?

With the four-way set up from how Austin 'won' the Rumble, and Bret and Undertaker already taken care of, I'd guess that Austin would have faced Vader. For the referee for Bret and Shawn, I'd have put Ken Shamrock in the spot, similar to how he was the referee for Bret/Austin.

[Epic Reine 0]

Was HHH supposed to return from his knee injury at Survivor Series '98 like he was advertised or was he always meant to not be a part of the card by no-showing (in kayfabe)?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Was HHH supposed to return from his knee injury at Survivor Series '98 like he was advertised or was he always meant to not be a part of the card by no-showing (in kayfabe)?

 

This doesn't answer your question, but in the crazy times that were 1998 I remembered hearing rumours of HHH going to WCW. During the live boradcast of this PPV, I was beginning to wonder...

[MDH257 0]

Was HHH supposed to return from his knee injury at Survivor Series '98 like he was advertised or was he always meant to not be a part of the card by no-showing (in kayfabe)?

 

No, it was false advertising. They knew his wouldn't be able to wrestle, but advertised him anyway.

[King Cucaracha 0]

On a similar note, I wasn't watching RAW around that time. Did they drop any actual hints that the mystery guy in the tournament would be Shawn Michaels or was it a case of everybody jumping to the natural conclusion?

[Boxer 0]

Two questions:

 

1. When RVD debuted he was a heel in 2001 right? Did he turn face during the storyline with Austin? Or was he all heel until after the invasion ended? Or was he, heel, face, heel and then face for good?

 

2. Why did the Patriot wear the mask, yet the WWF would occasionally call him Del Wilkes? Plus, if I remember, Raw Magazine had an inverview with him, with the mask off. If he is de-masked and real name reveal, why didn't they just run with the Patriot without the mask?

[alfdogg 0]

Technically, RVD was a heel throughout the invasion because he was with the Alliance, but he always got face reactions. After Survivor Series, he just started working against heels instead of faces. I don't think there was ever an actual turn.

 

I still would have liked to seen Rock and RVD switched sides on the way to Survivor Series. With a WWF team led by Jericho, Angle and RVD against Rock and Austin's Alliance team, they could really have elevated some guys, IMO. Of course, then we probably would have just had Undertaker as the survivor instead.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

On a similar note, I wasn't watching RAW around that time. Did they drop any actual hints that the mystery guy in the tournament would be Shawn Michaels or was it a case of everybody jumping to the natural conclusion?

 

I think back then there were about 1500 wrestling news websites, 1490 of them just making stuff up as they went, and a possible HBK rumour was spreading around. There was never any real reason to think this, just people being hopeful.

[Diamonddust 0]

Technically, RVD was a heel throughout the invasion because he was with the Alliance, but he always got face reactions. After Survivor Series, he just started working against heels instead of faces. I don't think there was ever an actual turn.

 

I still would have liked to seen Rock and RVD switched sides on the way to Survivor Series. With a WWF team led by Jericho, Angle and RVD against Rock and Austin's Alliance team, they could really have elevated some guys, IMO. Of course, then we probably would have just had Undertaker as the survivor instead.

 

I was at the Smackdown they did immediately after ECW joined the Invasion in 2001 (It happened on a Raw in Atlanta, while the Smackdown was taped in Birmingham). RVD wrestled a dark match that evening, and he damn near got the biggest pop of the night. When ECW lost the TNN show, Birmingham didn't get the syndicated program they still did. RVD was still over like crazy, and I remember thinking to myself, "They need to get him on television ASAP."

[Boxer 0]

After watching some old WCW, what's up with "Scott Hall's contract" during the WCW 2000 period? What was the point of this? Was Hall still under contract with WCW at that time?

 

Also, what's up with "Last Call Scott Hall"? Was this similiar to the Hawk angle or was WCW just making it out to be a storyline?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

After watching some old WCW, what's up with "Scott Hall's contract" during the WCW 2000 period? What was the point of this? Was Hall still under contract with WCW at that time?

 

Also, what's up with "Last Call Scott Hall"? Was this similiar to the Hawk angle or was WCW just making it out to be a storyline?

After watching some old WCW, what's up with "Scott Hall's contract" during the WCW 2000 period? What was the point of this? Was Hall still under contract with WCW at that time?

 

That was during the time that the edict had come down from above that Scott Hall was not to be brought back. I think the idea behind the storyline was that it would hopefully force the hand of the higher ups and they'd have to let Hall come back, but they never did buckle.

 

Also, what's up with "Last Call Scott Hall"? Was this similiar to the Hawk angle or was WCW just making it out to be a storyline?

 

WCW thought it would be cute to turn Hall's infamous off-screen habits into an on-screen angle. At the time, he was getting into a new legal scrape just about every other week, typically involving heavy drinking. One time, he got arrested for drunk driving when he was on his way to collect his kids during his court appointed access time, and I think he might have actually crashed the car as well.

[Epic Reine 0]

Why was Waylon Mercy's (Dan Spivey) WWF stint so short? I always thought he had a very interesting gimmick where he'd think and act like a face but in the ring he'd snap and be a heel.

[Timmy8271 0]

Why was Waylon Mercy's (Dan Spivey) WWF stint so short? I always thought he had a very interesting gimmick where he'd think and act like a face but in the ring he'd snap and be a heel.

 

He got injured. I think he had a bad back before even becomign Waylon Mercy and it was only a matter of time.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

One thing I was thinking about the other day...I remember an episode of RAW, probably in '97, where I believe Davey Boy and Owen were wrestling the Headbangers. After the match, Jim Cornette came out and introduced his new team...the Headhunters (though he didn't name them). They attacked and laid out the Headbangers. The next week, the event wasn't mentioned and completely forgotten. What happened here?