Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The source of the companies problems is new stars (or lack thereof). I'd say that HHH had a hand in that. Well, half his challengers have been... HBK Nash Steiner Booker T Those guys aren't new. And HHH is better in the ring then all of them except HBK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoboBrazil 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 No the companies problem is lack of consistant entertaining storylines. They got an entertaining storyline in Kane's unmasking and they were rewarded with above 4.0 ratings. That storyline is dropping off though and they have nothing else to back it up with. Back in the boom period the whole show was filled with exciting storylines where you never knew what would happen next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Triple H can't draw! His title reign is KILLING the company! He's the reason that Smackdown is so much better than Raw every week! The WWE will NEVER acheive a decent rating with HHH as champion! If he was on Smackdown the WWE would be in the GRAVE! Raw ratings the three weeks before HHH became champion: 4.0, 3.9, 3.7 Smackdown ratings the last three weeks: 3.4, 3.4, 3.4 Raw ratings the last three weeks: 4.0, 4.2, 4.2 But.....but.....that doesn't make sense. Does the antichrist draw? Riiight and this shows me what? Like was said before Kane seems to be the one drawing the numbers. The biggest broken down ratings for the show end up being at the end where most of the Kane stuff has been going on in each of those weeks that you posted ratings for. But alas those numbers still aren't any higher than what WWE has gotten the last couple of years. It always goes between low 3's and low 4's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 HHH has had a hand in creating new stars all right. He's given huge rub to Randy Orton, and sold like crazy for everyone from Goldust to Maven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I'm skipping the thread and commenting on the title and sub title. Triple H as world champ: I thought you wanted long title reigns. Question: What has this long title reign done exactly to improve the quality of the title...as long title reigns are supposed to? If you can find the positive that it has put into the prestige of the belt...then it was a good idea. If you can't than this thread has a ridiculously easy answer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 My point with the ratings was that people who say that HHH is killing Raw are obviously wrong. I'm not really saying that HHH is the direct cause of the numbers. I'm just saying that he's not bringing down ratings or hurting the company with his title reign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 So you'd say that Goldust and Maven are better because of it? I really don't see them doing anything right now. Maven makes an appearance on RAW once every 3 or 4 months and Goldust is in a storyling with Lance Storm right now. Orton is basically the guy he's finally settled on as what he views as "main event material" after he tossed every credible main event star to the side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I'm skipping the thread and commenting on the title and sub title. Triple H as world champ: I thought you wanted long title reigns. Question: What has this long title reign done exactly to improve the quality of the title...as long title reigns are supposed to? If you can find the positive that it has put into the prestige of the belt...then it was a good idea. If you can't than this thread has a ridiculously easy answer. It's made all the fans (casual and smart), hunger intensely to see a face win the title. It's improved the credibility of the belt enough so that a belt that was retired a year ago is now considered more prestigious and important than the WWE Title with a legacy going back to Bruno Sammartino. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 My point with the ratings was that people who say that HHH is killing Raw are obviously wrong. I'm not really saying that HHH is the direct cause of the numbers. I'm just saying that he's not bringing down ratings or hurting the company with his title reign. He isn't exactly helping them either. I think we've already addressed the "numbers" you put up. He's not sinking them, but he hasn't, in the long ass time he's been champ, really made any drastic change in the ratings either. Wouldn't any other champ who was given that much time to make a difference and didnt have his reign ended? It's made all the fans (casual and smart), hunger intensely to see a face win the title. It's improved the credibility of the belt enough so that a belt that was retired a year ago is now considered more prestigious and important than the WWE Title with a legacy going back to Bruno Sammartino. Say what? Who views the World Title as more prestigious than the WWE Title? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 "It's made all the fans (casual and smart), hunger intensely to see a face win the title. It's improved the credibility of the belt enough so that a belt that was retired a year ago is now considered more prestigious and important than the WWE Title with a legacy going back to Bruno Sammartino." Ok...now lets try answering with something TRUE. No one cares to see a face win the title...BECAUSE THE TITLE MEANS NOTHING AND NO ONE CARES. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 So you'd say that Goldust and Maven are better because of it? I really don't see them doing anything right now. Maven makes an appearance on RAW once every 3 or 4 months and Goldust is in a storyling with Lance Storm right now. Orton is basically the guy he's finally settled on as what he views as "main event material" after he tossed every credible main event star to the side. It doesn't matter how much HHH puts them over if they don't have another match on Raw for the next three months. My point is that Triple H has sold for everyone he's faced, giving them the chance to get over if they can get more matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 "My point is that Triple H has sold for everyone he's faced" [Chris Rock mode on] YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SELL FOR EVERYONE! WHAT DO YOU WANT, A COOKIE?[/Chris Rock mode off] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Well of course he's sold for them, but that's not the same as putting them over. If he didn't sell for them he wouldn't be able to justify himself to anyone in the company. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Y2Kurt Report post Posted August 8, 2003 -HHH Cant Wrestle -HHH Sucks On The Mic -HHH Aint Entertaning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The World Title is not prestigious in the fans minds. It's an ego title and even the marks know that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Well, half his challengers have been... HBK Nash Steiner Booker T Those guys aren't new. And HHH is better in the ring then all of them except HBK. You're thinking too recent. I was referring to Benoit, Jericho, Angle from 2000 not being put over (all of whom had feuds with HHH, all of whom lost on PPV to HHH) and the company suffering for it in 2001/02, and of course, today. The WWE has invested a full year into HHH. Where is the return on that investment? Ratings? Buyrates? Attendance? New Stars? Interesting Feuds? One big bowl of nothin. Some people think nothing is better than something, I don't. That time could have been used better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The reason HHH hasn't had his reign ended is that no one has been over enough to take it away from him. He's had six challengers since initially taking the belt. He got cheered over three of them, (RVD, Steiner, Nash); he dropped the belt to one of them, (HBK); one got buried by his awful storyline, (Kane); and one just generally sucks, (Booker T). Not one of those people could have kept the ratings steady, let alone make a dramatic change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 He got cheered over RVD? I don't remember it that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 "My point is that Triple H has sold for everyone he's faced" [Chris Rock mode on] YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SELL FOR EVERYONE! WHAT DO YOU WANT, A COOKIE?[/Chris Rock mode off] Guess someone forgot to tell Undertaker that... sorry, that was a cheap shot. Anyways, if Triple H has no effect on the ratings (negative or positive), and he's not exactly elevating anyone and isn't creating new stars (except for Orton I guess), what's the point? If WWE wants to get out of their funk, they have to try new things. I wouldn't mind this if it was proven that others could not draw in the ratings with a strong reign, but that hasn't been proven. Hell, it's argueable that Kane should be champ over Triple H for drawing in the ratings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The World Title is not prestigious in the fans minds. It's an ego title and even the marks know that. Bullshit. The marks have been shown that one title has a dominant, stable champion who defends against all comers. The other changes hands every PPV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 That's because it was so long ago. The Raw before Unforgiven, HHH came out to a good pop, and when RVD gave an interview challenging him, he was met with absolute dead silence. HHH was way more over than RVD at that time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The World Title is not prestigious in the fans minds. It's an ego title and even the marks know that. Bullshit. The marks have been shown that one title has a dominant, stable champion who defends against all comers. The other changes hands every PPV. Every other PPV??? It's changed hands at TWO PPVs. The fans don't care about the World Title because they know by now that Triple H is going to win. He's not elevating himself, the title or his challengers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 None of those guys you mention McFly got the insano HHH uber-push 9000 or anything close to it. And rather than try to create new stars out of them by giving them said Insano Uber-push, they just had HHH go over them. Back to the mid-card they go, whooopieeee~! And now, the last guy they could have put over HHH and made into a "new star" (Goldberg) at Summerslam, will win it like HBK did back at Survivor Series and everyone will proceed to _not care_. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 That's because it was so long ago. The Raw before Unforgiven, HHH came out to a good pop, and when RVD gave an interview challenging him, he was met with absolute dead silence. HHH was way more over than RVD at that time. Stop bullshitting. That did not happen. That was the same promo that RVD made fun of HHH, which got a huge pop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The World Title is not prestigious in the fans minds. It's an ego title and even the marks know that. Bullshit. The marks have been shown that one title has a dominant, stable champion who defends against all comers. The other changes hands every PPV. Every other PPV??? It's changed hands at TWO PPVs. The fans don't care about the World Title because they know by now that Triple H is going to win. He's not elevating himself, the title or his challengers Exactly. Zsasz you'd have a point if every one of HHH's feuds were pushed as if the challenger had a chance in hell at winning the title, but most of them don't. out of all of those who was given a real chance to get over? Who was made to look like they would actually win...thus giving the fans a reason to care? Who was pushed strong against him to put any good heat on the feud at all? RVD...maybe, but even then it was a forgone conclusion. Steiner....ha! Push up contest huh? Nash...no one would have wanted him to go over anyway yet WWE had a freakin HIAC for a rematch thus making the fans care even less Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The World Title is not prestigious in the fans minds. It's an ego title and even the marks know that. Bullshit. The marks have been shown that one title has a dominant, stable champion who defends against all comers. The other changes hands every PPV. Every other PPV??? It's changed hands at TWO PPVs. The fans don't care about the World Title because they know by now that Triple H is going to win. He's not elevating himself, the title or his challengers The reasons the fans know that HHH will win is because his challengers suck, and even basic marks know that faces who get booed don't win the title. The last face who was even mildly over was Booker T and a lot of people (over half I'd say), thought he would win at Wrestlemania. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The World Title is not prestigious in the fans minds. It's an ego title and even the marks know that. Bullshit. The marks have been shown that one title has a dominant, stable champion who defends against all comers. The other changes hands every PPV. Every other PPV??? It's changed hands at TWO PPVs. The fans don't care about the World Title because they know by now that Triple H is going to win. He's not elevating himself, the title or his challengers The reasons the fans know that HHH will win is because his challengers suck, and even basic marks know that faces who get booed don't win the title. The last face who was even mildly over was Booker T and a lot of people (over half I'd say), thought he would win at Wrestlemania. The reason people thought he would win is because the storyline was: Triple H says black people don't hold world titles. So of course the natural blowoff is: Booker T shuts that racist up and proves everyone wrong by winning the title. Of course the result is: Triple H proves that black people don't hold world titles. Triple H should've gone over Steiner but it was absolute crap that he went over Booker T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 That's because it was so long ago. The Raw before Unforgiven, HHH came out to a good pop, and when RVD gave an interview challenging him, he was met with absolute dead silence. HHH was way more over than RVD at that time. Stop bullshitting. That did not happen. That was the same promo that RVD made fun of HHH, which got a huge pop. RVD made fun of HHH's water spitting on the actual PPV. The Raw before, HHH was getting more cheers. It certainly wasn't of Steiner or Nash proportions, but I remember remarking on it at the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 That's because it was a Race-Driven storyline where Booker T _had to_ (on the moral basis of said feud) win. When HHH won that crowd became deflated. They didn't boo him out of the building, they didn't riot because he was such a villainous heel, they became demoralized. Because Booker _should have_ won the title, not that HHH kept it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 That's because it was so long ago. The Raw before Unforgiven, HHH came out to a good pop, and when RVD gave an interview challenging him, he was met with absolute dead silence. HHH was way more over than RVD at that time. Stop bullshitting. That did not happen. That was the same promo that RVD made fun of HHH, which got a huge pop. RVD made fun of HHH's water spitting on the actual PPV. The Raw before, HHH was getting more cheers. It certainly wasn't of Steiner or Nash proportions, but I remember remarking on it at the time. You're wrong. RVD did make fun of HHH's water spitting the week before the PPV. RVD: Duuuuude- you can really spit some water! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
