It's not always a damn carry

[KTID 0]

RVDMARK, I'm now anticipating Rico, ANKLELOCK, and Y2Kurt (With His Capital Letters) trying to rebut. Should be good.

 

Don't worry, i'm fired up and ready for war. Been waiting to get this little rant off my chest for ages.

 

 

Y2Kurt is gone I think.

 

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

I Mean Thats A Shame I'll Really Miss Him Alot.

 

 

Do you like Angle at all or not? Sounds to me that you have more of a problem with Angle Fans than Angle himself.  Angle has a bright future in wrestling there's no doubt about that. As long as he can stay healthy.

 

I enjoy watching Angle, of course I do. I just really hate that he is so over-rated. Similar to Flair. I loved Flair, but honestly he's so damn over-rated, especially now, a good decade or more since his last good match!!!

 

 

As for his "bright future", erm, he's like 35 and his neck could go at any minute.

 

 

Summerslam 1992's main event was a great match and Bret's said he was the one who helped Bulldog along in that whole match. The Benoit/Train series on Smackdown had pretty good matches and you know it was all Benoit's doing because he's helping Train who's progressing nicely in the ring.

 

People who hate those saying someone was carried are just mad that there favorites aren't as great in the ring as they thought.

 

Of course Bret said that, he's an egomaniac!! That wasn't a series and no the matches weren't good.

 

I know exactly how good my favourite is in the ring.

 

 

But A-train is one of the better hosses in WWE.

 

"Better hosses", is that like some sort of oxymoron like "employed Ayr United fan".

[Guest TheGame2705]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't? I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

As for his "bright future", erm, he's like 35 and his neck could go at any minute.

 

Well like I said. It's bright IF he stays healthy.

 

 

"Better hosses", is that like some sort of oxymoron like "employed Ayr United fan".

 

Yeah it doesn't mean much, but out of all the hosses he's the one I dislike the least.

[Guest Ray]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't?

Common sense?

 

I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

Yeah......sure.

 

Any wrestling fan with a brain can figure it out.

[KTID 0]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't? I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

 

 

Bret, one of the biggest egomaniacs in wrestling, may have done more than his half the work in the match, and naturally exaggerate that he "carried the whole match" to make himself look better. That was a great, dare I say classic match, that went back-and-forth. It is not possible that one guy did the entire match himself and it not being a shit match, never mind not being a "classic".

 

EDIT: goddammit, being half asleep!!!

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

How did you quote yourself saying something you just posted?

[KTID 0]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't?

 

Common sense?

 

 

Ray, your forgetting he's never seen the match, being blind and all. At least, I presume he's blind.

[Guest TheGame2705]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't?

Common sense?

 

I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

Yeah......sure.

 

Any wrestling fan with a brain can figure it out.

Dude whatever, I won't even argue with someone who thinks they have the better eye and knows that a match is a carry or not when they themselves weren't in the match.

[Guest TheGame2705]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't? I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

 

 

Bret, one of the biggest egomaniacs in wrestling, may have done more than his half the work in the match, and naturally exaggerate that he "carried the whole match" to make himself look better. That was a great, dare I say classic match, that went back-and-forth. It is not possible that one guy did the entire match himself and it not being a shit match, never mind not being a "classic".

 

EDIT: goddammit, being half asleep!!!

Because that's very Bret Hart-like to try and put himself over at the expense of a dead family member. Before you ask how I know Bret personally and know he wouldn't do something, remember this is the only big name who hasn't comeback to the WWE when asked on more than one occasion because of him sticking to his word in addition to losing his brother who wrestled as well.

 

I also consider that if you do more than your share of work in a match to help the other person it's a carry.

[Vyce 0]

I will definitely agree that great matches are never carry jobs, but good wrestlers have been known to lead a bad wrestler to atleast a "decent" match.

 

Even Ted DiBiase acknowledged that the great wrestlers will be used to make the bad ones look good.

I agree.

 

If an Angle vs. Edge match winds up being ****, I wouldn't say that "Angle carried Edge".

 

On the other hand, if you have Angle vs. Big Show winding up being something like **1/2, that is a carry job my friends.

 

Great match = mutual hard work.

 

Decent match = carry.

[Guest Ray]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't?

Common sense?

 

I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

Yeah......sure.

 

Any wrestling fan with a brain can figure it out.

Dude whatever, I won't even argue with someone who thinks they have the better eye and knows that a match is a carry or not when they themselves weren't in the match.

O.........k.

 

You honestly think myself and others can't tell if a match is a carry without being in it?

 

We must all be really stupid then.

 

Austin vs Angle from SS01 is the perfect example. Austin controls the entire match. Austin guides Angle though the whole thing.

 

It's so obvious to anyone who knows anything about wrestling.

[godthedog 0]

if you pay attention to the bret/davey match, you can tell pretty easily it's a carry job. aside from an occasional running the ropes, bret does basically all the work for the first 15 minutes or so, and several times you can see him with davey in a chinlock, CALLING the spots. davey is also obviously not in the best of shape, blowing a back body drop & a top rope...something, i couldn't even tell what it was supposed to be.

[KTID 0]

How do you know it isn't a carry. You're telling us we don't know if it is, but how do you know it isn't? I guarantee you no one watching SS 92's main event before Bret said it, knew it was a carry.

 

Bret, one of the biggest egomaniacs in wrestling, may have done more than his half the work in the match, and naturally exaggerate that he "carried the whole match" to make himself look better. That was a great, dare I say classic match, that went back-and-forth. It is not possible that one guy did the entire match himself and it not being a shit match, never mind not being a "classic".

 

Because that's very Bret Hart-like to try and put himself over at the expense of a dead family member. Before you ask how I know Bret personally and know he wouldn't do something, remember this is the only big name who hasn't comeback to the WWE when asked on more than one occasion because of him sticking to his word in addition to losing his brother who wrestled as well.

 

I also consider that if you do more than your share of work in a match to help the other person it's a carry.

 

1) he's not a family member

2) you don't know him personally

3) he hasn't came back because he's an egomaniac worried about his image

4) he will come back, sooner or later

5) thats not a carry, or even something that isn't considered the norm

[Guest wildpegasus]

A few points I just want to make:

 

First point- I'm 99% sure Bret was talking about the Summerslam match being a carry job before Davey died.

 

2nd point-I'm one of the people that think Austin is overrated especially on boards like this. He is pretty good but he's not perfect. His offence is often weak looking and is too punch heavy.

 

3rd point-On carrying matches. There's a point here that's often not discussed when people discuss matches. Pat Patterson-He's the guy that often puts important WWE matches together like Rock vs Hogan. Look at the difference in quality between the last two Rock vs Austin matches at Wrestlemania. I bet it was Patterson who had his hand involved in the first one a lot more since it was the main event making the bout a lot better rather than last year's Wrestlemania Rock vs Austin match which was a lot worse. Who's to say that Patterson didn't put together ANgle vs Austin or Kurt himself didn't coregraph the match before the PPV. (pace of both wrestlers, transistions, selling, moves etc...) If that's true than it would have actually been Angle carrying the first PPV match of ANgle vs Austin. It's well known that there is a lot of preplanning in wrestling these days instead of going on instinct. For these matches you can't honestly know who's carrying the match.

[KTID 0]

A few points I just want to make:

 

First point- I'm 99% sure Bret was talking about the Summerslam match being a carry job before Davey died.

 

2nd point-I'm one of the people that think Austin is overrated especially on boards like this. He is pretty good but he's not perfect. His offence is often weak looking and is too punch heavy.

 

3rd point-On carrying matches. There's a point here that's often not discussed when people discuss matches. Pat Patterson-He's the guy that often puts important WWE matches together like Rock vs Hogan. Look at the difference in quality between the last two Rock vs Austin matches at Wrestlemania. I bet it was Patterson who had his hand involved in the first one a lot more since it was the main event making the bout a lot better rather than last year's Wrestlemania Rock vs Austin match which was a lot worse. Who's to say that Patterson didn't put together ANgle vs Austin or Kurt himself didn't coregraph the match before the PPV. (pace of both wrestlers, transistions, selling, moves etc...) If that's true than it would have actually been Angle carrying the first PPV match of ANgle vs Austin. It's well known that there is a lot of preplanning in wrestling these days instead of going on instinct. For these matches you can't honestly know who's carrying the match.

 

 

1st point-What the f*** differenece does that make?

 

2nd point-no he's not

 

3rd point-so your assuming any pre-planning must've been Angles work rather than Austin. Thats exactly what the guy who started the thread was talking about, so I guess his point is proven.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Quote RVD MArk

 

"What the f*** difference does that make?"

 

I was correcting a point someone was inferring to

 

"No-he's not"

 

Yes, Austin is overrated. For the amount of praise he gets you'd think he's better than Jaguar, Dynamite, Kobashi, Hokuto, Steamboat and Benoit combined. Austin isn't.

 

As for your 3rd point I wasn't saying that ANgle carried the match. I was just saying that it was a possability Angle could have done some preplanning and that possability shouldn't be overlooked. That's all. Precoregraphing a match is often a point that is overlooked when people discuss who is carrying who.

[Guest Sakura]

It's just like the word "buried". It has no meaning here because it's used so much. Every match has someone "carried" and every lose is a "burial".

[KTID 0]

Quote RVD MArk

 

"What the f*** difference does that make?"

 

I was correcting a point someone was inferring to

 

"No-he's not"

 

Yes, Austin is overrated. For the amount of praise he gets you'd think he's better than Jaguar, Dynamite, Kobashi, Hokuto, Steamboat and Benoit combined. Austin isn't.

 

As for your 3rd point I wasn't saying that ANgle carried the match. I was just saying that it was a possability Angle could have done some preplanning and that possability shouldn't be overlooked. That's all. Precoregraphing a match is often a point that is overlooked when people discuss who is carrying who.

 

 

For the first point, i'm sorry. I didn't realise you were just correcting something someone said, I (wrongly) thought you were implying something abouts Bret Harts integrity.

 

Second point, i have never seen any such love for Austin. He's neither over-rated nor under-rated, as far as I can see. He's considered to be one of the best, simply in WWF/E, as far as phsychology, drawing heat, timing etc. though lacking a great moveset. There's no denying Austin/Rock at WMXVII or Austin/Foley at OTE, to give two reasonably wide-spread examples, are two of the best WWF/E matches of the "Austin era".

 

Third point, were you saying if pre-match planning was done it proves Angle carried the match or are you just refuting those who have said Austin clearly appears to lead the match?

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

It seems to me that the entire "WWE brawling style" as exists today was brought into place to cover Austin's declining in-ring ability. That, and to keep guys like Benoit, Eddy, and Jericho from showing him up completely.

[Guest nWoCHRISnWo]

It's stupid when people say "so and so carried that match" when it clearly wasn't like that, but it's also stupid when people just refuse to believe that someone DID get carried, like RVDMARK is doing. Like people said, wrestling fans with brains should be able to figure out if something is clearly a carry job or clearly not, and in the Bret/DBS SS '92 match, it clearly IS a carry job.

[syxx2001 0]

I dont really like Angle marks either because they always believe every match he is in is a 6 star match (vs Brock Lesnar at WM 19) or he carried someone to a good match. Like someone else said, he is fun to watch, on the mic at least, but hes WAAAAY overrated. But I'd prefer a spot fest over a mat match anyway. They put me to

[KTID 0]

It seems to me that the entire "WWE brawling style" as exists today was brought into place to cover Austin's declining in-ring ability. That, and to keep guys like Benoit, Eddy, and Jericho from showing him up completely.

 

NO!!!

 

Austins style has no relation whatsoever with the "WWE style" we see today that cripples guys like Benoit, Eddie and Jericho.

 

Austin adopted a style *COMPLETELY UNIQUE TO HIM* which allowed *HIM* to accentuate his strengths (phsychology, timing etc.) and cover his weaknesses (by this point, bump-taking).

 

Todays "WWE style" limits each and every wrestler to half a dozen moves maximum and prohibits displays of athleticism which may show up the aging, paranoid main eventers, like HHH and Nash.

[Silence 0]

It's just like the word "buried". It has no meaning here because it's used so much. Every match has someone "carried" and every lose is a "burial".

Well let me explain when the word "burial" is right to use after someone loses a match: For example, Chris Jericho vs. someone like RVD, right? If Jericho lost, that's just a loss, because RVD's worthy of a push much like Jericho is to the top(even though both scenarios are very unlikely obviously) because of his charisma and crowd-popping spots.

 

Now, what about Jericho vs. HHH? If Jericho lost, that would be considered a burial because HHH has never put Jericho over cleanly on PPV, HHH is not as good as he once was in the ring, and does nothing to get a huge reaction from the crowd, while the more talented and over wrestler, Jericho, gets made to look like a bitch to the Flair-wannabe, and coincidently goes back down to mid-card eventually each time.

 

Back to the topic: Like some have said, a carry job is when a match is considered decent when a good wrestler wrestles a bad wrestler, and a great match would not be considered a carry job because both wrestlers would have put their efforts into the match.

[KTID 0]

...and a great match would not be considered a carry job because both wrestlers would have put their efforts into the match.

 

Which SURELY proves that Bret/Bulldog at Summerslam '92 WASN'T a carry job.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Oh, please. The SS 01 match was the type of match that was Austin's specialty, and the type of match Angle was not familiar with at that time. There's Angle preplanning and there's letting Austin dictate the flow, pace, and the like. OR, you can make the possibility that AUSTIN preplanned the match! Who knows?

 

I sort of agree with the WWE style and Austin, as the style has been said to debut at Over the Edge 98 with Austin/Foley, and remains today, because it came from a successful era and Vince is loath to give up or change anything once he makes up his mind.

[syxx2001 0]

I thought a burial would be a squash. Or not putting someone who is over, over. Like if Spanky was getting pops like crazy and someone who doesn't need to go over like Taker or Kane beats Spanky, that would be a burial. Like Brock and Spanky. But he isn't getting crazy pops either.

[Silence 0]

I thought a burial would be a squash. Or not putting someone who is over, over. Like if Spanky was getting pops like crazy and someone who doesn't need to go over like Taker or Kane beats Spanky, that would be a burial. Like Brock and Spanky. But he isn't getting crazy pops either.

Yeah, that definitely would be considered a burial too. I was talking about another type of burial as in bad wrestler refuses to put over good wrestler because he feels his high-flying technical style would upstage him, so he beats him on the PPV and the good wrestler gets demoted to mid-card.

[KTID 0]

I was talking about another type of burial as in bad wrestler refuses to put over good wrestler because he feels his high-flying technical style would upstage him, so he beats him on the PPV and the good wrestler gets demoted to mid-card.

 

 

Though clearly not referring to any particular bad wrestler refusing to put over a particular good wrestler with a high-flying technical style which would upstage said bad wrestler, resulting in the mid-card demotion of this good wrestler, who could, after all, be anyone.

[Guest wildpegasus]

To Mulatto Heat: I'm not saying at all who led who in Angle vs Austin. I'm just making a point that preplanning a match is often not considered as a point when discussing who carries who and that analysis of matches are often somewhat unfair because of this. People really should be praising Pat Patterson as a great carrier even though he doesn't wrestle anymore.

[Guest TheGame2705]

I'm not sure if it was this thread but I needed to clarify that when I said no one could tell Bret-Dog was a carry I was meaning around the time it happened before all this smark jargon and in-depth match analysis and just fun old mark days.

 

Either way, it's hard to argue RVDMark. Austin's "unique" style is WWE style. Punches, kicks, multiple finishers and attempts, spinebuster, sleeper. It's all there.