Val Venis

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

I know when people think of Val Venis they think "Attitude" era has-been. But I think they have really dropped the ball with Val aka Sean Morley. Behind the tired gimmick is an above average wrestler with good mic skills.

And it seems like they think about giving him a push every 6-8 months only to drop it quickly.

 

I thought he was starting to get over as a serious wrestler back in 2000, which was right after he cut his hair and won the I-C Title, even though his big feud at the time was with Rikishi, he made the best of it and made a few Rikishi matches watchable. I thought this was going to be the start of the "MEGA" push for Val but it wasn't.

 

Then they suddenly put him with the Right To Censor group and that killed his character and his "push". Then he is stuck back in the low-card and either he got hurt or got the dreaded "creative has nothing for him" and was in WWE's former minor league HWA for months in a career standstill. WWE decides to bring him back as Val Venis as one of the returning stars at the 2002 Royal Rumble. He seemed to get pushed again for a couple of weeks only to get dropped back to "Heat" low-card status again.

 

They decide to push him again as Eric Bishoff's "Cheif Morley" which could have led to a big push right after his falling out with Bishoff but that seems to have been dropped, so now he is stuck on Heat feuding with Rico.

 

Val has better ring skills and even mic skills than a good majority of the RAW roster, so why isn't he getting pushed??

 

If WWE would have used him better over the years I can't help but think he could have been a top guy in the company by now.

I mean what gives...he was never a WCW star and is a WWE original character which in WWE means everything (at least according to management) but yet they would rather push guys like Test and A-Train.

What a shame.

[alfdogg 0]

I totally agree with you. I've always thought Val was an underrated talent, among smarks and marks alike.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Yeah, this basic point has been showing up in a lot of the threads here recently about how even if they want someone to get over they do it in such an illogical fashion that it does more harm than good. Val has had a tough ride that is true, ever since his first major program vs Mankind all those years back. There will always be a stigma about him of micardness because they get lazy and throw the Venis gimmick out again and again. They could have made him a strong heel or face if they would have followed up on the Chief story, but that might have made Austin look bad in the slightest so f' it.

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

If they would have used Val better I would even think he could be a top card heel main eventer.

 

Is he a victim of backstage politics or is it the creative team not knowing what they are doing or as another said being lazy??

 

They were on the right track with Val in 2000 when he was a serious character but I guess they will never let him be more than that "porn star dude".

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Venis is definately underrated. They only reason why the gimmick failed is because they constantly get lazy with his pushes and character development.....

[caboose 0]

Hell, back in October of 1999, Val had a decent fued with Foley in which I remember Venis going over. He was very over as a heel at the time, but by Wrestlemania 200 he was special guest referee for Terri Vs The Kat.

[LJSexay 0]

He's been utterly misued, and once he gets over himself, they cut him off at the heels.

 

You think he could at least be an IC contender sometime soon?

[razazteca 0]

Now Val is stuck on Heat doing Ambiguent Gay Duo skits with Rico.

[Guest netslob]

RVD is also a wasted talent...in more ways then one!!!

 

BWWWWWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[AndrewTS 0]

Val's average at best. His matches are repetitive (most of them are almost exactly alike) and his offense is rather dull aside from a few decent moves like the Blue Thunder.

 

He's not that bad, just not great. He's been hampered by repeated attempts to resurrect the porn star gimmick and a history of being prone to injuries.

[Guest Coffey]

Val's average at best.  His matches are repetitive (most of them are almost exactly alike) and his offense is rather dull aside from a few decent moves like the Blue Thunder.

This pisses me off more than a message forum has ever pissed me off before. Even though it's just text from someone that I will never meet, it pisses me off. Not just because I'm a Morley mark, but because people are so dimwitted they have to always use the same excuses for everything.

 

His matches are repetitive? Fuck you. Alright. Just straight fuck you. This is the WWE. EVERY match is repetitive. Every fucking one. That's what happens when you only get four minutes to work. I think, no fuck that, I KNOW Val is the best wrestler on RAW. Yeah, that's right. Better than Jericho, better than RVD & better than Lance Storm. You can call me crazy all you want, but I know what I have seen. Morley always...ALWAYS entertains me. On the stick, in the ring, everywhere. He should be a main eventer by now. Especially after having to go through all the "Val Venis" bullshit.

 

He is WAY above average in the wrestling department. "Average at best?" Fucking please. Rodney Mack is average at best. Test is average at best. Morley is better than half the roster (including Smackdown). Average at best means that when he has his best nights, it's only average. Or, it could mean if you added up all of his matches and rated them on quality, then divided by the number of matches you would end up with a number that was "average" based on a scale that would have to be made up as well. Fuck that. Did you even think before you typed that?

 

His offense is rather dull aside from a few moves like the Blue Thunder? Why's that? Because not every single move he uses is exclusive to him? I beg to differ. He executes all of his moves well. He has a great finisher. The 'Money Shot' is highly underrated. Everytime I see it I just have flashbacks to Jimmy Snuka days. Just because he doesn't do twenty moonsaults and six corkscrews before hitting a body splash doesn't mean that it can't still be impressive.

 

I swear, it's like people have selective viewing habits. If you don't think Morley is talented, you shouldn't be allowed to form an opinion about wrestling on a wrestling forum. The same people that preach about Chris Jericho, Booker T. & The Hurricane had better damn well see something in Morley.

 

Now I'm bitter. I can't believe that someone would go out of their way to call Morley average. I've never even seen Morley botch a spot! Remember his feud with D-Lo way back when for the IC title? Yeah, he was even good back then. I've also never heard about Morley being hard to work with or causing problems backstage. In fact, whenever I do read something about him, it's usually just something like him going to another wrestlers wedding. That just shows that he's a nice guy with a lot of friends. I guess we all know where nice guys finish.

 

I just think it's a case of the good old TSM double standard again. I have no doubt in my mind that if people talked about Morley as much as they talk about some other 'Smark Darlings" everyone would act like they liked him. Why? Because this place is full of fucking sheep. Just a bunch of damn bandwagon jumpers. It makes me sick. It's like everyone just tries to fit in. Everyone likes the same five wrestlers...and I know that they are talented, but I guarantee half of the people that act like they like Guerrero or Jericho only say that to try and fit in here. The reasoning is because they don't want to be "ran off" for having a different opinion. Don't act like it wouldn't happen either, because it's happened in the past.

 

It's not just a difference of opinion either. You might not like Morley as much as me, that's fine. You might think other wrestlers are better than him, that's fine too. Those are opinions, I'll admit that. Saying the man is not talented or is average is not an opinion. Not to me. To me it's false information. It's bullshit. He obviously has talent. OBVIOUSLY. If you can't see that, quit watching wrestling because you wouldn't know talent it it took you out into the middle of the street and blew your brains out.

[Detective Comics 0]

Val Venis has always been one of my favorite wrestlers and when he came in at the same time as Gangrel and Egde I predicted that he would have gotten pushed more then Edge, and that he would be in Edge's place now.

[Guest Trivia247]

For those who think Val's matches are boring Check out WWF Summerslam 98 with him vs Dlo...

 

both underrated wrestlers busting out a great match.

[nl5xsk1 0]

At the risk of setting Jag0 off again, I have to admit that I have a hard time seeing Morley/Venis in a position above mid-carder.

He's not great on the stick, and while he's not Steiner/Test level bad, he's nothing fantastic either. While I wouldn't call his matches average, I would call them unmemorable.

 

I'll agree that a lot of that is due to the way he's used, but as I said in the Kanyon thread: people have got to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. If Morley went out there and thrilled people and got a big reaction, he wouldn't get as jerked around. But the honest answer is he comes out to relative apathy and puts on a decent - but not great - match. The most over he's ever been was during the attitude era, and that's because it was new and cutting edge to have a porn star gimmick. Well, it's no longer new, no longer cutting edge, and he's no longer over.

Edited August 15, 2003 by nl5xsk1

[Guest The Old Me]

I agree Venis was misused, LONG ago. He's had more dropped pushes than a lot of people in recent memory.

[Guest Ray]

I also feel Sean Morley is underrated. He's no great wrestler, but he's above average compared to many in WWE.

 

What I don't understand is why he isn't pushed, since he has what Vince supposedly wants......a great look and good mic skills.

 

I think they made a mistake by returning to the old gimmick.....the Chief Morley character could have gone in many different directions.

[Silence 0]

Val's a decent wrestler, but nothing special except for a few moves. He's not terrible by any means, but I'd still rather watch Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, Angle, Mysterio, Tajiri, Noble, WGTT, etc. over him any day.

[Guest Coffey]

While I wouldn't call his matches average, I would call them unmemorable. 

 

Agreed. Though you can't put all that blame on Morley. I remember his feud with D-lo...

 

If Morley went out there and thrilled people and got a big reaction, he wouldn't get as jerked around. 

 

Tell that to RVD.

 

The "Porn Star" was/is/always will be bad. Morley still did it. Not only that, but Morley cut his hair off for the company...still gets nothing.

 

Do you consider the Chief Morley run as a push? Sure, it wasn't the "Val Venis" gimmick, but it was still bad. Especially since he played second fiddle to Eric Bischoff and his only real involvement in storylines was in the middle of the Dudleys Vs. Storm/Regal.

 

He's not terrible by any means, but I'd still rather watch Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, Angle, Mysterio, Tajiri, Noble, WGTT, etc. over him any day

 

I'd rather watch Morley over that whole list except Guerrero, Benoit & Angle. Actually, I would love for Morley to feud with them three over on Smackdown. They would be good matches and not just because Guerrero, Benoit & Angle were in them.

Edited August 15, 2003 by Mr. Jag0

[SteakGrowsOnUecker 0]

Val Venis has been so misused throughout his career. I find no faults with the way he wrestles and the crowd loves him. He's just gotten stuck in angles that really seem to kill his career. For instance the whole Kai-en-tai I'm going to "Choppy Choppy Your Pee Pee" deal. That was just such a waste of time for Val when he should have been used with talent like the Rock which could have been an interesting feud at the time.

 

There always is a chance that he could get another chance at the IC belt and get off of Stevie Night Heat.

[Guest The Decadent Slacker]

They dropped the ball when Foley tried to get him over. He could have been HUGE if booked properly. Although he's never been one of my favorites, he fit my criteria: he can talk, can put on a good match & as an added bonus he has a look (in fact he looks better now than ever, imo). They had 2 shots to create a superstar: after the Foley feud, & the face turn after his Rikishi feud pre RTC. He could be doing what Eddie's doing now as a face.

 

I wish they kept Storm/Morely as a tag team, especially now (a porn star teaching Lance charisma? That might rule).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Val is a victim of Russo's short-term gimmicks. The thing they needed to do badly was take the name away, which they did, only to give it right back to him - and even worse they just did it with little to no explanation and just assumed we'd accept it.

 

Val is an "average" wrestler. He doesn't really have bad matches, he doesn't have great ones, his moveset is fine (and All Japan inspired, which is bonus), he performs moves well, his promos are good, his look is good, etc. etc. But it's that damned name and gimmick he has to jump over. I say just stick him down in OVW for a few months, repackage, and team him up with a new comer.

 

RRR: Benjamin vs. Venis, Dark Match/Smackdown from Toronto in October, REALLY good.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I wish they kept Storm/Morely as a tag team, especially now (a porn star teaching Lance charisma? That might rule).

"Uh, hi Trish...I'm here to clean your pool."

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

I think it all comes down to the "not so" creative team focusing so much on the McMahons and 4-5 of the top guys that Val has been the victim like many....make that most of the mid-card roster, of lazy character development and booking.

 

Not only was Val Venis a victim of this but in the past 3-4 years you could also include:

 

Raven

Perry Saturn

Dean Malenko

D-Lo Brown

Mike Awesome

Sean O'Haire

Tazz

and to a certain extent Chris Benoit and a few others

 

But what makes Val's the most unusual is that he is a original WWE star and was never big in another promotion like WCW or ECW, which seems to be a big reason why most of the guys I listed never get or got anywhere.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

He's an asshole so fuck him.

[Guest TheAnvil]

He's an asshole so fuck him.

Thanks for adding to the debate and discussion. I can see why you're a valued member of the forum*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

*by valued member I mean complete and utter waste of life.

[Guest Coffey]

He's an asshole so fuck him.

 

Some people just...

 

I'm speechless.

[The Czech Republic 0]

He's an asshole so fuck him.

You're an asshole, Rico...should I fuck you?

[Guest Deviant]

I agree that Morley is a great wrestler. With more time in the ring, he would show that. Using Jag0's comparison though, I would put him above RVD, but below Storm and Jericho. There aren't many better than him on Raw.

 

However, after so many stop-start pushes and completely irrelevant matches and feuds, I can't see a push for him working, despite having every single tool needed.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Val was doing great as Chief Morely, but as soon as they gave him back the porn star gimmick that failed miserably the first two times he used it, I knew it was over.

[AndrewTS 0]

Chill, Jag0. By "average" I mean that his matches aren't bad and he's not one to have very good-great matches all the time. If you ACTUALLY THINK THAT TEST IS "AVERAGe" than I can see where you're coming from. Test isn't average. Test is just bad.

 

And you've yet to address my other points--that the Venis gimmick's constant revival and his history of injuries prevents them from taking much of a risk with him.

 

Okay, they want to push Batista and Orton, but--look at my sig.

 

However, putting on spectacular matches isn't a requirement for a push in WWE. I don't hate Morely, it's just that I haven't seen too much to be impressed about in a long time. He hasn't had any good opponents to work with, and hasn't wrestled much--for all you know he may be unable to have good matches like he once did. Really, the only match I remember him having lately that was good was a tag match that I think was on Raw...I forget the participants but I know Storm was in it too. It was probably **1/2 stars or so. Better than almost all Raw matches, but not spectacular.

 

I'd be inclined to debate for Rico/Storm being better--but they're in the same boat. Storm hasn't had a good match since he was in the tag division, because he's been resorting to chinlockery constantly, so I'm not counting him. Rico hasn't had a good match in WWE except for one match vs. Rey. So dispite the hype over Rico in OVW, Rico in WWE is nothing to write home about. His matches are now flat out boring since he's gotten the new gimmick--he at least had some neat moves he did when he got the rare Heat match prior.

 

I think that one of Morely's strong points would be his mic skills. The sex joke intros as Val got old, but as Morely he showed good acting and mic skills. However, I have no interest in hearing him when he's back in Venis mode, since it's the same ol-same ol.

 

He had a very good match with D'Lo I agree--I have Summerslam 98 on tape. But that was 5 years ago. A five year old match prior to injuries, constant depushes, bad gimmicks, and revivals of that gimmick doesn't seem a good basis for comparison to today.

 

And best on the Raw roster? I sincerely doubt that. Until he's carried lumps like Steiner and Nash to decent matches AND had a MOTYC like Jericho had with HBK--Jericho is bar-none the best in my opinion.

 

And every WWE match is repetitive? Suuuure...methinks you don't get SD. By repetitive, I mean that nearly any one of Val's matches are almost exactly the same. Same combos, same sequences, same moves. It's hard to fuck up doing the same match night in and night out.