Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Delgado plays a much easier position and Mannny's little visit to the Bar killed his chances of winning. I have a feeling Nomar will end up winning the award. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I think what position you play is irrelevent otherwise the MVP should probably be Jorge Posada...and who wants that? Ya Manny probably has killed his chances by just being a jackass otherwise I think he'd be the favorite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I would go with Arod, because noone else is worth it IMO. The A's are in it due to pitching, the central is a joke, and the M's, Yankees, and Sox are so deep that no one person is that valuable. There are 8 people on the Red Sox between 75 and 100 RBIs. Delgado really died out in the second half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treble 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Delgado's not even the most valuable player on his team, and his second half has pretty much taken him out of the MVP running. He may finish top 10, but no way he's winning it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Hey I wouldn't vote for Delgado but if everyone is going to have sympathy for A-Rod then I got other non-contending players who deserve consideration too. Hell I think you could make a serious case for Garret Anderson over A-Rod. A-Rod had a better year last season and had a better year in '96 when he was barely lost out so why should he win it now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Good point. What about Ordonez. He's the most valuable player for the White Sox who are in a playoff race. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I think what position you play is irrelevent otherwise the MVP should probably be Jorge Posada...and who wants that? The position you play is relevent, because the MVP award takes every aspect of play into consideration. Hitting, pitching, and defense. Al your support of A-Rod this year is odd because Carlos Delgado is having the better year and Manny Ramirez (who IS on a winning team) leads the A.L. in ops. Fact is A-Rod numbers are slightly down this year so if he doesn't win it last year he certainly shouldn't win it this year. I'm starting to get a vibe though since no one has broken out like Tejada did last year that A-Rod might get a sympathy MVP this year. A-Rod getting screwed last year doesn't justify him getting screwed this year. As for A-Rod over Delgado? Like I said before. Alex leads the A.L. in slugging, and he's a shortstop. He also leads the A.L. in home runs, and runs scored. And he has also played every single game for three years now. Hell I think you could make a serious case for Garret Anderson over A-Rod. If anyone can make any kind of case for Garret Anderson, I'd like to hear it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Change the damn awared to Best Player and give it to A-rod for the next 7 years so this debate doesn't have to exist. I just don't understand how someone can be so valuable to a losing team. Whats gonna happen if he isn't there? I mean the idea was to build this mighty foundation with the great Arod, and build an empire of greatness around him, and the only thing that plan's shown us is the recipe for a bad ball club. Maybe I'm just getting sick of the Arod/MVP talk when he embodies a lot of things that are hurting baseball right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I just don't understand how someone can be so valuable to a losing team. Whats gonna happen if he isn't there? They become the Tigers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Change the damn awared to Best Player and give it to A-rod for the next 7 years so this debate doesn't have to exist. No, make the rules state valuable to a contending team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JangoFett4Hire 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Where are the arguments for Pedro for AL Cy Young? Yeah, I know he only has 13 wins, but leads the league in K's, ERA and BAA... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I still find it funny that Manny being in the hotel bar of the hotel HE LIVES IN caused such a fuss. Anyway, MVP is a crapshoot. It could honestly be one of like 20 guys in the AL. If A-Rod had last year's stats this year, they would be almost forced to give it to him. And Jango, Pedro missed too much time to be considered for the Cy Young. That's why he doesn't have 18-19 wins too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Note to people who care about Marlins/Phillies: Tomorrow (Thurs.) the start time of the game has changed from 7:00 to 1:00. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 The position you play is relevent, because the MVP award takes every aspect of play into consideration. Hitting, pitching, and defense. So no player who ever played 1st base should have ever won the MVP? Again Jorge Posada is your MVP if you go by position being that relevent. A-Rod getting screwed last year doesn't justify him getting screwed this year. As for A-Rod over Delgado? Like I said before. Alex leads the A.L. in slugging, and he's a shortstop. He also leads the A.L. in home runs, and runs scored. And he has also played every single game for three years now. Delgado has more rbi, doubles, a OBP almost 30 points higher, and a better OPS. If anyone can make any kind of case for Garret Anderson, I'd like to hear it. Well since we're comparing to A-Rod, Anderson has almost twice as many doubles, has more rbi, has a batting average almost 20 points higher, and has 35 fewer strike outs. My whole point by bringing up someone like Anderson is that you act like its A-Rod hands down and no one else even deserves a second of consideration. I wouldn't vote for Delgado or Anderson either. Should be noted that A-Rod is just a point below .300 and no player was won the MVP with a batting average of less than .300 since Kevin Mitchell in '89 and none in the A.L. since Don Baylor in '79. Both played on winning teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I think it's probably a majority agreement that A-Rod is the best player in ball, but he has had a down year (for him) and shouldn't be considered for the award. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 Bear with me, as I'm responding to several posters. Note to people who care about Marlins/Phillies: Tomorrow (Thurs.) the start time of the game has changed from 7:00 to 1:00. FUCK. I swear MLB schedules games around my work schedule. I'll have to try and schedule my break around the ending. So no player who ever played 1st base should have ever won the MVP? Again Jorge Posada is your MVP if you go by position being that relevent. Catchers generally miss too many games, which is why they don't figure into MVP discussions alot. Well since we're comparing to A-Rod, Anderson has almost twice as many doubles, has more rbi, has a batting average almost 20 points higher, and has 35 fewer strike outs. My whole point by bringing up someone like Anderson is that you act like its A-Rod hands down and no one else even deserves a second of consideration. I wouldn't vote for Delgado or Anderson either. Should be noted that A-Rod is just a point below .300 and no player was won the MVP with a batting average of less than .300 since Kevin Mitchell in '89 and none in the A.L. since Don Baylor in '79. Both played on winning teams. Batting average is meaningless. The only GMs who depend on it as a stat manage teams like the Pittsburgh Pirates. Rodriguez is a hair below Ramirez and Delgado in terms of hitting, but his defense is what sets him apart. Rodriguez' shortstop skills push him far above the 1B/DH players. No, make the rules state valuable to a contending team. Then the award becomes a pile of bullshit. I just don't understand how someone can be so valuable to a losing team. And I don't understand why a player should recieve an award based solely on the performance of his teammates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 I think it's probably a majority agreement that A-Rod is the best player in ball, but he has had a down year (for him) and shouldn't be considered for the award. I hear about down years alot. I don't have the data in front of me, but is it possible that offense as a whole is down? I'll look into it tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted September 17, 2003 And I don't understand why a player should recieve an award based solely on the performance of his teammates. Its not...if you watched what Miguel Tejada did for the A's last you'd know. Ya, ya, ya the A's have the pitching but they don't make the playoffs last year without Tejada and THAT is more important than straight up statistics. They probably don't make it this year either without him and no I'm not saying he should win it this year because of his slow start his overall numbers just aren't good enough. But fact his he had MVP numbers last year and his team got to the playoffs so he won the award. Its the way it is and and its not going to change anytime soon. But as I sorta said earlier I bet A-Rod wins it this year because everyone feels sorry for him. Boo hoo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 Finishing the series with the Phils with the wild card lead is locked! Sweet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 I want to know whose idea it was for Rollins to run on that fly ball. That was utterly ridiculous and killed the game. Good to see Myers come up with another outstanding performance in a big game. Ever since he yelled at Kerrigan he has been atrocious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 1 pm tomorrow afternoon...D-Train vs. Millwood. I'm glad, D-Train is a good afternoon pitcher and the Marlins have fileted Millwood this year. Too bad I won't be around until around 3:30...can catch the end on Gamecast at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 What's up w/ the umpires giving out warnings this year? The 1 issued tonight was awful. Reminded me of the 1 that the Phillies got in Montreal. He's obviously not trying to hit the lead-off guy in a close game w/ the team they're trailing for a playoff spot. That had to have been Vuke's call to send Rollins. *I* could have thrown Jimmy out. Lieberthal made a big mistake on the bases tonight, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 Umpires have no common sense this year. They are all afraid that if they don't give a warning, the league will be on their ass. In this guy's case though he was just an ass. I won't get on Lieby for that blunder, because Conine had no excuse making that play. Shit like that happens. Running on a shallow fly to left doesn't happen. And Randy Marsh better get suspended for bumping Bowa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 Lieberthal wasn't even looking at the ball on that play. His head was down and he was around 2nd before he even took another glance to the outfield. He's gotta go at most 3/4 of the way to 2nd base on that play, just in case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 The breaks just didn't fall our way. It was an odd game, and the Marlins had many chances for even more runs in the middle innings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 What the hell happened to Duckworth? They say he has the best stuff on the staff, yet within two years he would be lucky to be the last man in the pen at this rate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 I don't understand him. He still has a decent K rate, but he's not throwing the pitches right. Every batter got a 3 ball count (or so it seemed). In any case, I wouldn't put him in a pressure situation. On another tangent, what the hell is with pinch hitting with Kelly Stinnett? He's the thrid catcher, and the worst hitter on the bench. Why not give Travis Chapman a shot? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest meanmaisch Report post Posted September 18, 2003 I seriously doubt that Duckworth will be in a Philles uniform next year. While Rollins was not at fault for being sent on that easy throw from Conine, it was disheartening to see him barely tap Rodriquez and then fall on his ass. Rollins makes tons of boneheaded decisions out there, whether it be swinging at the first pitch after the previous batters were walked or not knowing how to judge the pitchers timing and getting caught stealing by a mile. It seems as either he doesn't understand what the coaches are trying to teach him, or, and this seems more likely, he is ignoring their advice and playing his own way. and at what point will the Phillies realize that Bobby Abreu will never get any better and will continue to play his laizze-faire (sp) style of baseball? He never seems to be giving 100% out on the field. The man can hit, but his fielding is atrocius. He's the kind of player that is good, but, with some more effort, could be great. As for Stinnett, I guess Bowa felt that Stinnett, being a veteran, would have more success than Chapman, a rookie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 Kind of interesting and fun. From Jayson Stark. Espn.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted September 18, 2003 While Rollins was not at fault for being sent on that easy throw from Conine, it was disheartening to see him barely tap Rodriquez and then fall on his ass. If Rollins ran full-steam into Pudge, he still would have fallen on his ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
