"Moving Left Along" Feedback

[Guest Anglesault]

Responding to Mr. Goodhart

[JHawk 0]

Quite nice, man. Quite nice.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Since when were you gone for a month??

[Guest Anglesault]

Since when were you gone for a month??

The actual site. My last column was 7/30.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

My main issue was with the "Apologist" line. People who enjoy the show aren't apologists, people who stand up for the WWE when Shawn Michaels beats Chris Jericho at Wrestlemania 19 and say things like "The feud isn't over" and "Jericho wanted to lose" are apologists. Basically, anyone who says "Give them a chance" is an apologist, cause they do 99 out of 100 things wrong and there's no good reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

..and I don't see this "unbelievable resurgence of the The Big Show". He got tossed around by Brock, that's it. He's the same blackhole of wrestling he's always been.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Eddy is putting on good matches every week, but just holding the US title is bad. There is absolutely no reason for someone this over and this good in the ring to be toiling around the midcard. Absolutely none. Give me one good reason that Eddy is not fighting for the world title. His size does not count. And who is an Eddy midcard feud helping? Certainly not Eddy. He’s too over for this. Not Cena. He’s already beaten Eddy three or four times. Neither one is going to get more over, nor neither will climb up the card.

 

A few things to say about this. I remember predicting Benoit to win at SSlam so that Eddy can move up the card, and in the same thread there were many that thought that Eddy should retain because he's red hot. I thought, and still think "What? So keeping the midcard title on him is the best solution?" The four-way scenario was perfect for Eddy to lose without getting pinned or submitting, but that opportunity is gone now and unless there's another four-way or a triple threat, he's going to lose the title the old fashioned way, and possibly to Cena. Cena beating Eddy (again) won't make him more over or any more credible, and could damage Eddy on his way to the upper echelon, so you are right, it is a waste.

 

The World’s Greatest Tag Team has had great matches. So, logically, it makes sense to leave them off shows, and feud them with the APA where the main point of the angle is that Bradshaw thinks Shelton is a woman. I’m sorry, that’s just absolutely horrible.

 

No, it's sportz entertainment, silly! You see, people would rather watch a flag-waving tag team feud culminating in a mediocre-at-best match than one with guys that are ahead of their experience level, because... well... um....

 

And I have no idea why they won’t just let him beat Albert, but whatever.

 

Because Albert isn't horrible, remember?

 

Basically, anyone who says "Give them a chance" is an apologist, cause they do 99 out of 100 things wrong and there's no good reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

*Flashes back to the 'Ultimo gets signed' thread from last May where it was Rudo vs. the World*

 

*Looks at Ultimo's current status*

 

Yup.

Edited September 7, 2003 by Mulatto Heat

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

We all lost on that one Mully, we all lost on that one...

 

I gave the WWE 3 months to bury Dragon... that's what I get for seeing the glass half empty, when in reality, there was no water at all.

[Guest Anglesault]

Ultimo is still with the company?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

We all lost on that one Mully, we all lost on that one...

 

I gave the WWE 3 months to bury Dragon... that's what I get for seeing the glass half empty, when in reality, there was no water at all.

It was ONE MONTH.

 

He lost to Eddy in the US Title tourney in his second match, and half of us were all "oh, it's just an isolated incident, there was a lack of midcard faces".

 

Then, Ultimo needs a distraction from Mr. Assfuck to beat Jamie Noble. Jamie BAH GAWD Noble, who jobbed to everyone and their mother for the better part of a year!

 

Ultimo has been on Velocity ever since. Or having dark matches. When we were *assured* that he'd be feuding with Mysterio over the CW title by now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I kinda figured him wrestling Shannon Moore for his debut was a tell-tale sign of a burial. The fact that he wasn't on the week after sealed the deal.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Good Column AS, but I can't help shake the feeling that this is just a glorified MB Post. There's nothing from your style that elevates it from just a fluff piece or you "speaking your mind" - which is, of course, the intent but it doesn't make what you're saying or what's on your mind to be anything that couldn't be found elsewhere... or on here.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

The Ultimo burial is legendary. I mean it took one week to leave him off the show. So far his most important match was a 5 minute tournament job. This makes the Tajiri burial look like a Brock push.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Speaking of Tajiri, any bets on Dragons heel turn and subsequent Fan Apathy

[Papacita 0]

I think it’s our duty as a wrestling fan to try find ways to fix the problems in wrestling.

Wow...um...I dunno. I definitely see where you're coming from, but that's an interesting way of putting it.

 

Eddy is putting on good matches every week, but just holding the US title is bad. There is absolutely no reason for someone this over and this good in the ring to be toiling around the midcard. Absolutely none. Give me one good reason that Eddy is not fighting for the world title. His size does not count. And who is an Eddy midcard feud helping? Certainly not Eddy. He’s too over for this. Not Cena. He’s already beaten Eddy three or four times. Neither one is going to get more over, nor neither will climb up the card. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.

Let me make one thing clear: I am NOT in any way, shape or form a WWE apologist, but this is one case where I think we should "wait and see". Eddie didn't really hit his peak in popularity until the U.S. title tournament, so it's understandable that the WWE would allow him to establish himself as champion and build a little interest in the midcard rather than just hotshotting the World Title on him overnight. And in the meantime, regardless of how many times Cena's defeated Eddie in the past (I doubt too many marks have been keeping count, cause I damn sure know that I haven't been), you've got a fairly entertaining program between two of the most over workers on Smackdown. In addition to creating something that's actually interesting in the undercard for a change, we've got a feud with the potential (SHUT UP) to create two main eventers in the very near future. Now it's up to WWE...they may make the most of the situation, or they may fuck it up...but I think it's best to wait until they've actually done it before you start complaining about it.

 

Other than that, I'm with you on the column.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Eddie was getting over huge when he feuded with Team Angle. Then they "turned" him "heel", or tried to... Eddie is small, he's talented, he's a minority, and he had success in other promotions - there is no way he'd get beyond upper mid-card.

 

RRR: Doesn't find Eddie vs. Cena in any way interesting. Oooh, they're feuding over a car. That's a step up from the epic Edge/Booker shampoo wars.

[Papacita 0]

Eddie was getting over huge when he feuded with Team Angle. Then they "turned" him "heel", or tried to...

That was roughly the same time period as the U.S. Title reintroduction.

 

Eddie is small, he's talented, he's a minority, and he had success in other promotions - there is no way he'd get beyond upper mid-card.

Eddie doesn't fit those standards, because quite frankly there's never been anyone that was small, that had success in other federations, was talented and was a minority that was as over as Eddie is now. Vince cares most about making money, and the reactions Eddie's been getting lately probably have the little cash registers ringing in Vince's head. If he's got any sense left in him (debatable...I know), he'll try to make SOMETHING of Eddie's push. Just don't go jumping to conclusions before they actually bury him.

 

RRR: Doesn't find Eddie vs. Cena in any way interesting. Oooh, they're feuding over a car. That's a step up from the epic Edge/Booker shampoo wars.

And you would highlight the most meaningless aspect of the feud. Obviously, the feud is about more than a car, because it started with a challenge for a U.S. Title. Yes...a feud about a title in 2003...I know it's a foreign concept, but try to keep with me here. Aside from that, you've got the fact that Cena embarrassed Eddie in his own hometown, and Eddie wants payback. Cena's stealing the car just adds another dimension to the feud, because he's beating Eddie at his own game. If you don't like the feud, I won't try to force you to, but writing it off because it's "about a car"...? Come on.

[Guest Anglesault]

I think it’s our duty as a wrestling fan to try find ways to fix the problems in wrestling.

Wow...um...I dunno. I definitely see where you're coming from, but that's an interesting way of putting it.

 

Eddy is putting on good matches every week, but just holding the US title is bad. There is absolutely no reason for someone this over and this good in the ring to be toiling around the midcard. Absolutely none. Give me one good reason that Eddy is not fighting for the world title. His size does not count. And who is an Eddy midcard feud helping? Certainly not Eddy. He’s too over for this. Not Cena. He’s already beaten Eddy three or four times. Neither one is going to get more over, nor neither will climb up the card. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.

Let me make one thing clear: I am NOT in any way, shape or form a WWE apologist, but this is one case where I think we should "wait and see". Eddie didn't really hit his peak in popularity until the U.S. title tournament, so it's understandable that the WWE would allow him to establish himself as champion and build a little interest in the midcard rather than just hotshotting the World Title on him overnight

Back in July, they realized that Eddy was just to damned over to turn heel. They had an oppotunity to capitalze on that at Summerslam so they could have him drop the belt w/o losing and move onto the main event.

 

Instead, they opted to do a feud over a car.

 

That's jut stupid.

[Guest Anglesault]

Another thing. When Eddy loses to Cena, won't it prove Cena's "worthless wetback" mentality right?

[Papacita 0]

Back in July, they realized that Eddy was just to damned over to turn heel. They had an oppotunity to capitalze on that at Summerslam so they could have him drop the belt w/o losing and move onto the main event.

I don't see what's so stupid about it. By having him win at Summerslam, they just established Eddie as a credible champion and added to the U.S. Title's prestige, so when Eddie actually loses the belt, it will mean something. Seriously, what's the point of having Eddie lose without getting pinned? Eddie may come out looking strong, but in the meantime the new champion looks weak because of a fluke win. He'll have to pin Eddie down the line anyway in order to gain credibility, and if Eddie just says "fuck the U.S. Belt" and goes after the World, that basically makes the new division look like shit. I'd say they're better off having him lose it in a program that fans can actually care about (like the current one) because it'd have more impact on the show overall and Cena would actually get somewhat of a rub from the win.

 

Another thing. When Eddy loses to Cena, won't it prove Cena's "worthless wetback" mentality right?

Be realistic. How many marks do you know who think like that? They LOVE Eddie now, and they'll love him win, lose or draw. And if Eddie does manage to win the World title before the end of the year, you've got your first challenger right there.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Has there EVER been an instance of two people being elevated (for more than a week or two) at the same time?

 

It doesn't happen. I don't think it ever has, and I doubt it ever will.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That was roughly the same time period as the U.S. Title reintroduction.

 

There was enough time to capitalize on it and elevate him above the mid-card with it. They chose not to because they didn't want to believe that someone like Eddie could be that over.

 

Eddie doesn't fit those standards, because quite frankly there's never been anyone that was small, that had success in other federations, was talented and was a minority that was as over as Eddie is now.

 

You're acting like Vince listens to his fans. No, he listens to his own instincts, and his instincts are telling him "small, talented, minority, wcw, ecw, japan... BAAAAD~!"

 

Vince cares most about making money, and the reactions Eddie's been getting lately probably have the little cash registers ringing in Vince's head.

 

BWAAAAAHAHHAHAHA!!! Next you'll be saying "Vince runs things, he cannot be influenced by any person below him" and other fucking retarded things that give Vince way more credit than he deserves. If Vince cared about making $$$ then why is HHH still champ? Why didn't they push RVD? Why did the Invasion angle - the angle that he decided to put his family at the forefront of - fail? Vince cares about making money, but he only knows a few ways to make it and will only follow those few ways... Eddie Guerrero, a Luchadore, isn't one of them.

 

If he's got any sense left in him (debatable...I know), he'll try to make SOMETHING of Eddie's push. Just don't go jumping to conclusions before they actually bury him.

 

Ok, so what you're telling me to do is completely go against everything the WWE has done in their history because "this time will be different". And you're not an apologist?? I think I have earned the right to count chickens before they hatch.

 

And you would highlight the most meaningless aspect of the feud.

 

By "meaningless" you mean "the focus of the past few weeks of television".

 

Obviously, the feud is about more than a car, because it started with a challenge for a U.S. Title. Yes...a feud about a title in 2003...I know it's a foreign concept, but try to keep with me here.

 

Has the title even been mentioned as of late? No, it's been "John Cena has stolen the wheel off of Eddies car" "John Cena has stolen Eddies car" "Oh you don't mess with Eddies ride, bruddah". The only mention of the US title has been "The US Champion Eddie Guerrero wants John Cena cause Cena messed up Eddies car!". But you're right, this is a TITLE-centric feud, hence the parkinglot brawl next week... oh, that's a classic title match. I remember Lou Thesz and Pat O'Connor's epic Parking Lot Brawl in St Louis back in 19dickity5.

 

Aside from that, you've got the fact that Cena embarrassed Eddie in his own hometown, and Eddie wants payback. Cena's stealing the car just adds another dimension to the feud, because he's beating Eddie at his own game.

 

Kinda like how Booker T was so mad at Edge for getting the shampoo commercial. Or Kane being so mad at Jericho for spilling coffee on him. BRILLIANT storytelling that has nothing to do with anything in terms of wrestling. But as long as it "adds another dimension" to the feud.

 

If you don't like the feud, I won't try to force you to, but writing it off because it's "about a car"...? Come on.

 

But it is about a car. Have you been watching Smackdown?

[Papacita 0]

There was enough time to capitalize on it and elevate him above the mid-card with it.

Possibly, but there was no need to. Yes, he was over, but what had he done in the past year that would make fans accept him in a World title situation? Great matches, yes, but the majority of them were tag matches. Putting the U.S. belt on him was a good move IMO, because it allows Eddie to re-establish himself as a credible singles competitor and warm fans up to the idea of Eddie as a champion.

 

And, for the sake of argument, suppose the WWE just decided to give Eddie the God push as soon as he and Tajiri lost the tag belts. Then what? The world title scene was pretty much locked. There really weren't a whole lot of options for Eddie at the time, and knowing the wonderful writers in WWE, he'd most likely have been lost in the shuffle, his heat would die and we'd have something legitimate to bitch about. I'd rather have them put Eddie in a midcard program with some actually structure to it than have him wandering about aimlessly in the upper card.

 

Ok, so what you're telling me to do is completely go against everything the WWE has done in their history because "this time will be different". And you're not an apologist?? I think I have earned the right to count chickens before they hatch.

Don't put words in my mouth. Am I saying Eddie's gonna be World Champion? Hell no. I'm not even saying this feud between he and Cena will be remotely good. All I'm saying is so far, as it relates to Eddie and Cena, they really haven't done anything wrong...nothing they deserve to be crucified over anyway. There's no real reason to complain about the feud yet.

 

By "meaningless" you mean "the focus of the past few weeks of television".

 

The car itself was really only the focal point of one major segment. Not enough time to label it a feud about a car.

 

To be fair, the title itself was really only focused on during that opening promo from last week, so you can't really label it a "title feud" either, but the fact remains that Cena's interest in the title, not the car, is what sparked the feud.

 

Kinda like how Booker T was so mad at Edge for getting the shampoo commercial. Or Kane being so mad at Jericho for spilling coffee on him. BRILLIANT storytelling that has nothing to do with anything in terms of wrestling. But as long as it "adds another dimension" to the feud.

 

Don't forget about how Savage was SO mad at Flair for the doctored pictures of he and Liz...or how he was SO mad at Jake for crashing his wedding reception and fucking with his wife. CURSE THOSE BLASTED WRITERS!

 

I'm not saying this current feud is brilliant storytelling, but it certainly isn't on the level of the bullshit you're comparing it to because once again, the car wasn't the main reason they began fighting in the first place...it was a Title match. Two, unlike the shampoo, the coffee, Lucy the dog or whatever other bullshit the WWE has cooked up, the low rider has been a part of Eddie's character. We've seen him go crazy when guys like Benoit messed with his car...we've seen him turn on Tajiri for messing up his car, and as stupid as that was, it establishes that Eddie's car means a lot to him, so when John Cena suddenly gets up and decides to steal it, it should register more with the fans. And you can go a few different directions from here. They could play up Cena beating Eddie at his own game, and each week have him out-lie, out-cheat and out-steal Eddie. They could play it up as a respect issue...Eddie was publicly disrespected twice by Cena, once in front of his family, and feels he has to beat him in order to redeem himself, which they could always play up if Cena wins and they end up meeting for the World Title down the line. Or, you could simply look at it as Cena getting under Eddie's skin, making him prone to a mistake in an eventual title match. Is it the greatest angle ever written? No...but it's certainly hasn't been a bad one up to this point.

[Guest Goodear]

I'm just pretty much stunned that my article spawned this one, yet this one gets way more jibba jabba. Of course, I don't have the popularity of the Sault so hopefully I can leech a few reads out of the deal like a really fat rhemorah. Now off to write the letter that answers the letter that wrote the first letter! BWAHAHAHAHA!

 

Of something about electrocuting testicles.

[The Dames 0]

........Guys, quit it, seriously.

 

It'll go on back and forth and most people don't want to read about people's issues on the message board.

 

Dames

[bob_barron 0]

Why not do a special Crossface-

 

Goodear v. Anglesault

 

to settle it all

[Guest TheGame2705]

I have to agree with Papacita. If they jobbed it off of him a month later, it would make Eddy look like a transitional champ and the first champ shouldn't be transitional.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Possibly, but there was no need to. Yes, he was over, but what had he done in the past year that would make fans accept him in a World title situation?

 

Never said "World Title", I said "above the mid-card". Which means a high-profile feud setting up a world title feud - a transition period of 3-6 months.

 

Great matches, yes, but the majority of them were tag matches. Putting the U.S. belt on him was a good move IMO, because it allows Eddie to re-establish himself as a credible singles competitor and warm fans up to the idea of Eddie as a champion.

 

Eddie is above that belt, so all it really did was establish him as a midcard player - what he has been since he arrived in the WWE.

 

And, for the sake of argument, suppose the WWE just decided to give Eddie the God push as soon as he and Tajiri lost the tag belts. Then what? The world title scene was pretty much locked. There really weren't a whole lot of options for Eddie at the time, and knowing the wonderful writers in WWE, he'd most likely have been lost in the shuffle, his heat would die and we'd have something legitimate to bitch about. I'd rather have them put Eddie in a midcard program with some actually structure to it than have him wandering about aimlessly in the upper card.

 

So you'd rather them do nothing with the *mega heat* he has gotten (which doesn't come along that often) than put him up with the players to see if he could make some money?? Sure, the WWE braintrusts would fuck it up, but they already have a bunch of times in the last 4 months. That's what they do. Eddie is better than the mid-card act he is right now, he's better than the US title and he's much better than Cena.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. Am I saying Eddie's gonna be World Champion? Hell no.

 

You said "don't jump to conclusions". You said that they'd make "something" of Eddies push - what something would that exactly be? Is nothing something??

 

I'm not even saying this feud between he and Cena will be remotely good. All I'm saying is so far, as it relates to Eddie and Cena, they really haven't done anything wrong...nothing they deserve to be crucified over anyway.

 

1)The focus is on a car rather than the title - this is WRONG.

2)Rather than giving something back to the Latino Population, they had Cena punk Eddie in his hometown (typical WWE crap, don't give me this "putting heat on a feud" cause when Cena beats Eddie (and he will, he's a jacked up white boy from Ohio - Vince's ideal Sports Entertainer) then that's not putting heat on a feud, that's stealing heat from Eddie. That's wrong too.

 

RRR: Not a Roman.

 

There's no real reason to complain about the feud yet.

 

Cept for the fact that it's based on a car. Which it is.

 

The car itself was really only the focal point of one major segment. Not enough time to label it a feud about a car.

 

Let's see

 

-Eddie gets upset cause someone stole his wheel

-Cena denies stealing the wheel

-Cena beats up Eddie with the wheel

 

That's 3 segments, in one night, right there about the car.

 

To be fair, the title itself was really only focused on during that opening promo from last week, so you can't really label it a "title feud" either, but the fact remains that Cena's interest in the title, not the car, is what sparked the feud.

 

And the focus of the feud is not the title or Cenas desire for it, it's about Eddies car.

 

Don't forget about how Savage was SO mad at Flair for the doctored pictures of he and Liz...or how he was SO mad at Jake for crashing his wedding reception and fucking with his wife. CURSE THOSE BLASTED WRITERS!

 

The Jake angle was retarded, the Flair angle worked because of Flair. Cena is nowhere near Flair standards and this car angle is nowhere near the Liz/Randy relationship which had been established for YEARS rather than months.

 

I'm not saying this current feud is brilliant storytelling, but it certainly isn't on the level of the bullshit you're comparing it to because once again, the car wasn't the main reason they began fighting in the first place...

 

I said "step above" the shampoo angle, to be fair. Of course it's a "step below" any good angle... actually, a few steps below. It's still bullshit.

 

it was a Title match. Two, unlike the shampoo, the coffee, Lucy the dog or whatever other bullshit the WWE has cooked up, the low rider has been a part of Eddie's character. We've seen him go crazy when guys like Benoit messed with his car...we've seen him turn on Tajiri for messing up his car, and as stupid as that was, it establishes that Eddie's car means a lot to him, so when John Cena suddenly gets up and decides to steal it, it should register more with the fans.

 

This is all well and good, but it still doesn't justify putting the CAR at the centre of the feud. The CAR does not make money, the CAR does not draw fans, the CAR does not work house shows. There is no reason for the car to take the central role in this feud with the TITLE is around Eddies waist. The TITLE actually has value (or at least, SHOULD HAVE value - which this feud does absolutely no favours for)

 

And you can go a few different directions from here. They could play up Cena beating Eddie at his own game, and each week have him out-lie, out-cheat and out-steal Eddie. They could play it up as a respect issue...Eddie was publicly disrespected twice by Cena, once in front of his family, and feels he has to beat him in order to redeem himself, which they could always play up if Cena wins and they end up meeting for the World Title down the line. Or, you could simply look at it as Cena getting under Eddie's skin, making him prone to a mistake in an eventual title match. Is it the greatest angle ever written? No...but it's certainly hasn't been a bad one up to this point

 

But Cena hasn't beaten Eddie at his own game - he cheated in their title match BUT he didn't WIN. The only respect issue involved is the typical "Cena respects nobody" issue carried over from his Taker feud - really, that's it. This is about the continuation of the Cena character, not Eddies. The other psychological elements you mentioned won't hold up because the WWE doesn't work like that. Character and in-ring Motivation is not their biggest strength.

[Guest Anglesault]

........Guys, quit it, seriously.

 

It'll go on back and forth and most people don't want to read about people's issues on the message board.

 

Dames

Tell that to the amazing 48 pieces of mail I got today! All of it spam, mind you, but who's counting?

 

Seriously, I have no intention of going futher. I just felt that Goodhart's piece needed rebuttal.

[Guest Goodear]

I didn't even know that Anglesault and I were snapping at each other. I'm more amused by the whole thing than anything else personally.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Man, it's getting catty in here. Cool off guys, take a break, it's just a message board.