RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2003 The NWO wasn't Vince's creation. Hall and Nash were more popular in WCW than they ever were in the WWF. The concept and Hogan's turn were WCW-exclusive, as well as the booking. What WCW got was a failed champion and an IC-at-best greaseball and made them in to a threat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 7, 2003 The NWO wasn't Vince's creation. Hall and Nash were more popular in WCW than they ever were in the WWF. The concept and Hogan's turn were WCW-exclusive, as well as the booking. What WCW got was a failed champion and an IC-at-best greaseball and made them in to a threat. Yeah, but would they have been stars in WCW if Vince hadn't made them stars first? No, no they wouldn't. Because before Vince took a look at Hall and said what any rational person would say (Damn, give that guy a Scarface accent and it's GOLD) he was a NOBODY, and before Vince had the idea to push Nash as a, get this, a unstoppable giant big man and not a stand up comic he too was a NOBODY. You aren't looking at the big picture, RRR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 7, 2003 Oh and while neither Hall nor Nash were World Champ material, they were still both immensely popular stars and there's no debate about where they got that way. Oh and the Outsiders were basically the same characters they were in the WWF. Kevin Nash and Scott Hall never won World Titles during WCW's boom period, and they stayed in the Upper Midcard, which is exactly where they were in the WWF. Just admit it, I've scored over you in this example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2003 Well gee Z, Hall and Nash started off in WCW so by that extension... Hall and Nash were worth nothing in the WWF, WCW gave them worth with the NWO. To say that Vince created the NWO is like saying the guy who invented rubber invented the automobile. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Vince didn't create the nWo, but I would say that he was an influence in it's conception, just not a direct one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Actually if anybody should be thanked for the nWo it's New Japan Pro Wrestling... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Amen brother Damaramu. Amen. Bischoff lifted the idea of a promotion (in this case the defunct UWF-i) declaring war on another (in this case, New Japan). It was much better executed in Japan where they were able to sell out 3 consecutive Tokyo Dome shows based around the matchups of UWF-i vs New Japan. Plus the 3 shows were within 8 months of each other. That is white hot. Especially considering that the market in Japan is limited to only running a few big cities. The fans liked the storyline so much they came out in droves to see it. WCW did ok with it for awhile, but WWE completely and disgustingly dropped the ball with their so called "invasion" angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 It's kinda odd how Vince was able to drop the invasion when the NWO -the group he created- worked so well in WCW. You'd think that previous experience in creating the NWO would have helped him in making the Invasion angle work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cynicalprofit 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Does vince deserve all the grief he gets, lets ask martha hart who no longer has a husband becaue of what vince wanted. But he still can run a wrestling show better then anyone, thats why he's the only game in town on his level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 when it is Vince's Business Idea...what he thinks will TURN the company around.. is by wrestling his own daughter in a I Quit match... then YES he deserves all the grief he gets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 The nwo failed in the ww(f)e because unlike in wcw, Nash, Hall and Hogan were NOT allowed to be portrayed as real badasses that actually had power. That was the secret of the success of the nwo in wcw. And I mean when it only had a few members, not half the roster. It got over because, yes even though they really did have backstage influence, it was written into the storylines. Also, no one could really stand up to them, except for Sting and then only after a long drawnout fued. Fastforward to nwo-wwf. First off, Vince's segment introducing the nwo was one of the very worst and unconvincing acting jobs I've seen him do. And he is capable of so much better. Further, the nwo wasn't given even a kayfabe sense of backstage power and the final nail in the coffin would be SCSA singlehandedly making them all his bitches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Maccam16 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 No, I'd say the final nail in the coffin was that atrocious episode of Raw which saw the Gayda tag match, and Nash tearing his quad. Plus X-Pac and Hall were fired and there wasn't much left of the nWo. But you gotta love how Vince handled it, he just came out next week and announced there was no more nWo. As if in kayfabe-land everyone in nWo (Michaels and Big Show) just kind of let it happen without any defiance. I think that was just Vince coming out and apologizing in a sense for the awful product he was responsible for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted October 8, 2003 Well gee Z, Hall and Nash started off in WCW so by that extension... Hall and Nash were worth nothing in the WWF, WCW gave them worth with the NWO. To say that Vince created the NWO is like saying the guy who invented rubber invented the automobile. Crowd reactions for Vinnie Vegas and the Diamond Studd...the WCW creations Crowd reactions for Diesel and Razor Ramon... I rest my case. Vince was the one who managed to make them more than just jobbers. If he hadn't, then Hall and Nash would not have got the nWo spot in the first place. Not to mention Vince McMahon helping make Hulk Hogan what he is, so without that Hogan would not have got into the nWo spot...the nWo spot wouldn't even have been around probably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Vince could turn the product around tomorrow if he chose to. But he doesn't, and that's the problem. Everything that happens in that company happens because he allows it. So while you might criticize HHH and Stephanie for taking advantage of their rapport with him, it all comes back on Vince's shoulders, because he's the one that allows all of the bullshit to continue. All praise and all criticism should be directed toward Vince and Vince alone. If anything, I think he gets it too easy since HHH seems to be more hated than Vince. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Did Vince create the concept of the NWO? No. Did Vince have his top superstars put over the NWO? No. Did Vince turn Hogan heel? No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2003 I have honestly never seen a darker time in WWE. On RAW, they really can't do anything right ( although there HAVE been a couple of entertaining matches between the IC division ) and Smackdown has been getting worse by the week. Things are falling and ONLY Vince can stop it from happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2003 ...and he won't. Much like the NWO - the group he created - they will never learn their lesson and will fade away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Did Vince create the concept of the NWO? No. Did Vince have his top superstars put over the NWO? No. Did Vince turn Hogan heel? No. I'm not saying he came up with that idea. But...Vince made Hogan into the biggest face in wrestling history. Bischoff capitalised by turning him heel. The point is, Vince made Hogan into the huge star, and because he was such a huge star and such a huge face, the heel turn worked ten times better than it would have without Hogan's big name on it. Vince provided the basis... ...it was Bischoff and the WCW backroom staff who made the NWO...but it was Vince that made the NWO's founders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Hogans value in WCW (and the WWF in the 90's) wasn't very big (not big enough for Vince to try and keep him). Hogan in WCW did not bring the HUGE ratings and buyrates and $$$ that he did in the 80's. Yes, he still had his name - but that could also be considered a negative. Then he turned heel and alligned with the NWO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2003 Plus everyone knows Vincent made the NWO. Kids these days. And yes, Vince is too blame. He is the one who wanted the monopoly on televised pro wrestling, he is the one who wanted to outbid Eric Bischoff because of his own ego, he is the one saying ok to the stupid storylines and he is the one saying "let me have an incest feud with my daughter on PPV!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
