Interesting Column

[Ultra Violence 0]

I found some of this quite interesting.....

(In a sarcastic sort of way)

 

For close to a year now I have been dealing with comments that I am too harsh, and I should get over what I say about "marks" and the current WWE Product. Also there is the point made by alot that "the internet and guys like me have ruined wrestling" I take offense to that, in fact, I'm about to prove you wrong...

 

Before we start, before anything I say, before any nostrils flare, let me ask you a simple question: Do you have a passion? If so, are you content only knowing a little bit about it? I mean you would want to know as much as possible within your passion correct? Let me make the point first which I will bring up later that us internet "smarks" simply have a passion for this business that carries over to anger, or criticism for wrestling. This country is based on the idea that if there is something we don't like, we can try to change it...Let's hope, that there is hope. Before all of this though, let's get into the timeline of why Internet Smarks are not to blame nor the internet itself, but the blame lies on Vince McMahon.

 

Wrestlemania 3: Hogan vs. Andre. To us as kids and to some adults an historic match that will be remembered and re-lived over and over throughout wrestling. We didn't know the specifics of the match. We didn't need to. We never knew that Hogan's win wasn't a sure lock until Andre said it himself seconds before Hogan magically slammed Andre. Why should we know? We're just kids right? We were just wrestling fans right? Of course. The fact of the matter is though, wrestling was very simple "back in the day" You had a heel, a face, there were few main eventers, few egos, and the WWF was more of a family. Years passed, new stars rose, few though, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Hart, and then Steve Austin and that takes you about 10-15 years there. The competition all of a sudden grew heavy. Hogan's place in the WWF was no longer there, his place would be taken by Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, while Hogan and Savage went to another company and changed the wrestling business.

 

The blame doesn't lie so much with Hogan and Savage, but the mere competiton, and this was good. Some fans wanted an alternative and fans down south had their respected wCw. Now it was in the homes of millions as Nitro went on the air. The battle began back and fourth and for some time, wCw was ahead...All while, laying dormant was oh so quiet ECW...

 

The ECW factor

EXTREME! A Word never really though of in wrestling. While wCw and WWF were competing with lavish stage sets and big names and the classic form of wrestling. ECW popped it's head up and all of a sudden, the innovation began. The overload of violence, the sex, the language, and also, the WRESTLING. ECW was a conservatives nightmare and the bastard child of wrestling. It was also the swift kick in the ass wrestling needed. ECW showed that storylines could push the envelope, it showed that fans LIKE babred wire matches, catfights, and lots of blood...In a sense, it was "adult wrestling"...For Vince this was not a problem until he realzied that his fan base of little kids were slowly decreasing. Wrestling is not for little kids, for kids wrestling could be a phase, something they "used to watch", it's the teenagers and adults with the undying kid within them that watches wrestling. The theatrical feel mixed with imagInation, the magic of wrestling...the passion. THESE were the fans, and these fans were catching on to ECW...

 

By now the internet was trying to keep up with ECW/wCw/WWF action online. the early "smarks" may have known some internet news, maybe as much as we do now, but who cared? The product was great, whether you were in the middle of the wCw/WWF WAR or just loving ECW you were happy. Even when ECW's inspiration spilled over to create "WWF Attitude" and all of a sudden valets, catfights, and violence were apart of wCw and WWF shows now. Of course the ECW fans knew what was going on, we saw T-shirts at ECW shows with "Fuck WWF" or "Fuck Vince" "ECW: Where the REAL big boys play" and so on...We knew what was going on and we didn't like it...Problem was the big two swooped up the talent...Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steve Austin, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio, and others were in ECW before singing to wCw or WWF, the "big two" caught on and were working hard to make sure ECW stayed down. The elaborate stage sets got bigger, and while ECW stayed a low-budget show, even the WWF couldn't keep them away when they "invaded" Raw one night. AN obvious plot by Vince to show the "marks" the better of the two brands and it stayed that way...Vince started making moves as well. Tazz was swooped up, The Dudley Boyz, Al Snow, Shane Douglas, one by one the "big two" would make the first move. if only they would of left ECW alone.

 

The Bret Hart screwjob

Take sides or not, this was one of the biggets moments in wrestling history. The fateful night when Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, even Earl Hebner collectively "screwed" over Bret Hart was the first implicatons that wrestling is more than it seems to be. The Hitman spelled it out "WCW" in the air and it made you wonder "what is this"? Word got out that it was a "screwjob" and people wanted answers...They wouldn't get it from the newspaper, the internet had the answers...Was this a bad thing? of course not. Remember passion? Any fan that CARED about wrestling wanted to know what exactly happened and to this day details are still misconstruded, but the point is, that moment left us wondering, us: the "internet smarks" wondering "What more goes into this?" Like any passion we wanted to know more, so we learned...Time passed, and our knowledge grew...We now knew what "wrestling terms" were, we could point out and see storylines and botched spots, we knew about what went on backstage and "Beyond the Mat" the movie showed us even more. We were hungry. Why shouldn't we be? This is our passion, we want to know as much as possible. Are we bad people for that? Even further with the Hogan/Jarrett/Russo shoot where Hogan wouldn't job to Jarrett, with the Steiner/Goldberg/nash controversy, with the power that came with each wCw and WWF came the EGOS, and as we saw it play out we started to get angry. Wrestling wasn't "family oriented" BACKSTAGE anymore, it was a selfish, rotting pit of Egomaniacal waste. Vince and Ted wanted ratings and would do anything to get it. Even from Eric Bischoff giving results from WWF shows on a wCw show. The backstabbing, the twists, the need for money and fame on both sides and it caught up to wCW...wCW was falling apart, and it was falling fast.

 

ECW, stayed a family. Every show had heart and blood sweat and tears, the wrestlers backstage and the ECW fans were one collective family: The names weren't important. By now though the WWF and the wCw got all the names...ECW had Justin Credible and RVD....wCw had Goldberg and Sting...WWF had Austin and the Rock. The ECW chemistry and working environment if applied to wCw would of kept them alive, and if applied to the WWE today could have made Vince Mcmhaon's head explode. This seperation created "SMARKS". Why would we want to watch an overbuilt wrestler who can't talk and can only do two moves when we can see someone with pure talent, jump off the top ropes through a table and make the place go nuts? Even until it's death, ECW was always innovating, and we as SMARKS knew this: But then, the worst happened...

 

The Death of ECW

Why? Why we asked? How could this have happened? ECW didn't fall apart family wise but money wise, and it sucked. It sucked alot. We knew the talent would go places, we knew Tajiri, RVD, Rhyno, Justin Credible, Guido Maritato, Jerry Lynn and others would make it...It wouldn't be the same though. ECW worked. There wasn't any egos, Paul Heyman was a father figure to the roster and the death of ECW culminated into a lot of fans driving themselves into confusion...What now? The WWF? It's okay, it has it's moments and at the time of ECW's departure was good television. It still wasn't the same though. Now we as smarks had lost our perfect product, and the criticism began of the other two...

 

Then Vince had to be the King...

 

the death of wCw came shortly after ECW...This could of been it, I mean Ted Turner obviously did not care about wrestling, and when bids were up Eric Bischoff himself could have bought it, he could of saved it and molded it into a successful brand....Vince had to be god though. What would Vince do with wCw? He already raided ECW of it's ideas and talent why wCW? give them a chance! NO! Vince out-bidded and BAM! wCw was his...but htis wasn't an opportunity to Vince...Vince didn't see this as a way to make the wrestling world better...Vince just wanted to "WIN" and he did. What came with it? Has any big name wCw wrestler held ANY world title besides the recent Goldberg? He molded the talent into what HE wanted. Booker T, the Hurricane, Kidman, all different. Vince McMahon didn't care, he just wanted to WIN. He wanted ratings while he was doing it as he set up the WCW/ECW invasion. Even though led by Steve Austin? What a slap in the face to wCw. Through the failed and pathetic attempt at the new nWo led by another WWE superstar it was apparent that Vince did not care about anything but ratings and his own. Throughout all of this fans read online what was going on backstage with the wCw/WWE debaucle and when the invasion faded and time passed, it just worsened....

 

So let me ask you, how did WE ruin wrestling? Are you telling me you would be as entertained NOW as you were 3 years ago? KNOWING the wrestlers triple H kept down and his power, knowing the defamation of Piper, and Hogan, Vince McMahon constantly on our TV screens even as far as booking himself in a match with his own daughter...2 wrestlers could of used that spot to shine. McMahon shunning and quelling ANY reason or other thoughts or ideas other than his own? EX: Paul Heyman losing his writing team job due to him actually stepping up to Vince McMahon. RVD, Rosey and Hurricane etc...CAN'T BEAT KANE! BUT SHANE MCMAHON CAN! To any one that HAS PASSION towards wrestling how could you NOT care about all the stuff that is going on? Do you sit there and simply say "what can I do?" you say that it's OUR fault? WE DIDN'T MAKE THE EGOS. We actually speak out! What a concept! Speaking out! You don't like something than try to change it or speak out! What's that? YOU LIKE the current WWE product? You must not have watched in the past 7 years to see what wrestling once was...because wrestling is not family anymore. Wrestling is a money making machine and that is it. Go out and do your job!

 

Wrestling has lost so much...We don't see a family anymore, we see egos, we see mid-carders kept at mid-card for years when the main eventers fail to perform at even sub-par decency. We see announcers and GM's and CEO's who should be behind the scenes, become the main event in spots where a wrestler with a chance to break in and this selfishness is displayed we in and week out. Wrestling has even lost announcers...Joey Styles, Gorilla Monsoon, Alfred Hayes, all gone. Jim Ross has trouble calling one match, and you'd be lucky if you'll hear one move called by him. Would you want to watch a football game if the announcers couldn't call the game? Especially if you have passion for the game. The loss of announcers and the lack of moves called is a slap in the face and an insult to wrestling. WHo cares about athleticism when you can "believe the hype"? Flash, pyros, and egos...Who needs wrestling? Storylines that go absolutely nowhere, and end without reason, matches that stun audiences with wrestlers who will never get a chance to main event a PPV moreless Raw ever again...The leader, who will not be reasoned with, because he is the self=proclaimed wrestling GOD. This is what wrestling has become.

 

So if you call it "bitching" then so be it. I question your ability to care about the business, if you cared you would be with me, but if you turn away and tell me to shut up, I have to ask "where's your passion?"

 

Remember passion? I do. But I could just be bitching...

 

-Joseph Bachman

fansvswriters.com

[email protected]

Edited October 9, 2003 by Mada

[Guest Coffey]

it showed that fans LIKE babred wire matches, catfights, and lots of blood

 

I stopped reading right there.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

ECW worked. There wasn't any egos, Paul Heyman was a father figure to the roster and the death of ECW culminated into a lot of fans driving themselves into confusion...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I couldn't write a parody that was this good.

[Highland 0]

You should have continued reading the rest of the article anyway. He raises many valid points.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Nothing that hasn't been said on this board a billion times before, and much better might I add.

[Guest Loss]

I couldn't read anymore after I saw that he actually believed the Wrestlemania III story about Hogan-Andre. When will people learn that every single word to ever come out of Hogan's mouth is a lie?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, that's basically where I figured "goof"

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Vince started making moves as well. Tazz was swooped up, The Dudley Boyz, Al Snow, Shane Douglas, one by one the "big two" would make the first move. if only they would of left ECW alone.

He should be informed that Vince was keeping ECW alive for a long time, and that the talent likes getting paid for taking bumps week after week. But I think he already knows and chose to ignore that.

 

I mean, he does have a good point or two in there but the mutantism just nullifies it.

[Guest netslob]

yes, how DARE he like ECW...the heathen!

[Guest MikeSC]

yes, how DARE he like ECW...the heathen!

If you're going to write a piece bashing everybody but ECW, expect to get shredded as ECW DESERVES more shredding than most companies.

-=Mike

...and God knows WWF and WCW fans were more realistic about their companies than ECW mutants were --- and ECW fans weren't exactly fond of the talent

[Guest MikeSC]

For close to a year now I have been dealing with comments that I am too harsh, and I should get over what I say about "marks" and the current WWE Product. Also there is the point made by alot that "the internet and guys like me have ruined wrestling" I take offense to that, in fact, I'm about to prove you wrong...

 

Before we start, before anything I say, before any nostrils flare, let me ask you a simple question: Do you have a passion?

 

Nope. Only you have it, sport.

 

If so, are you content only knowing a little bit about it?

 

Let's remember this line, shall we?

 

I mean you would want to know as much as possible within your passion correct? Let me make the point first which I will bring up later that us internet "smarks" simply have a passion for this business that carries over to anger, or criticism for wrestling. This country is based on the idea that if there is something we don't like, we can try to change it...Let's hope, that there is hope. Before all of this though, let's get into the timeline of why Internet Smarks are not to blame nor the internet itself, but the blame lies on Vince McMahon.

 

Wrestlemania 3: Hogan vs. Andre. To us as kids and to some adults an historic match that will be remembered and re-lived over and over throughout wrestling. We didn't know the specifics of the match. We didn't need to. We never knew that Hogan's win wasn't a sure lock until Andre said it himself seconds before Hogan magically slammed Andre.

 

BWA HA HA HA HA!

 

Sweet God, how asinine can he be? I love markish a lot of smarks are --- and how much they HATE being reminded of it.

 

Let me guess, 93,000 fans were there too, huh?

 

Heck, if Hogan can beat Fujinami in a shoot (and, since he is the source of the above line of crap, we can't really discount ANYTHING he says), he could probably take down an aging, broken down Andre.

 

Why should we know? We're just kids right? We were just wrestling fans right?

 

Or because it's singularly untrue?

 

Of course. The fact of the matter is though, wrestling was very simple "back in the day" You had a heel, a face, there were few main eventers, few egos, and the WWF was more of a family

 

WWF was a "family" back then?

 

Umm, OK.

 

If ya say so.

 

Years passed, new stars rose, few though, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Hart, and then Steve Austin and that takes you about 10-15 years there. The competition all of a sudden grew heavy. Hogan's place in the WWF was no longer there, his place would be taken by Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, while Hogan and Savage went to another company and changed the wrestling business.

 

The blame doesn't lie so much with Hogan and Savage, but the mere competiton, and this was good. Some fans wanted an alternative and fans down south had their respected wCw. Now it was in the homes of millions as Nitro went on the air. The battle began back and fourth and for some time, wCw was ahead...All while, laying dormant was oh so quiet ECW...

 

The ECW factor

EXTREME! A Word never really though of in wrestling. While wCw and WWF were competing with lavish stage sets and big names and the classic form of wrestling. ECW popped it's head up and all of a sudden, the innovation began. The overload of violence, the sex, the language, and also, the WRESTLING.

 

The same "wrestling" that inspired total silence amongst the ECW audience? You mean THAT wrestling?

 

ECW was a conservatives nightmare and the bastard child of wrestling. It was also the swift kick in the ass wrestling needed. ECW showed that storylines could push the envelope, it showed that fans LIKE babred wire matches, catfights, and lots of blood.

 

Well, unless you look at things like tiny audience numbers that never got much above 5,000 at any point in the company's history. Oh, and their lack of a nat'l TV deal for years --- and how badly they did in that deal. Or how bad their buyrates were.

 

Ignoring that and, yup, fans LOVED ECW. I just wonder how that company is doing right now...

 

In a sense, it was "adult wrestling"...For Vince this was not a problem until he realzied that his fan base of little kids were slowly decreasing.

 

ECW was never a threat to the WWF at any point. That 1997 invasion wasn't done to benefit the WWF.

 

Wrestling is not for little kids, for kids wrestling could be a phase, something they "used to watch", it's the teenagers and adults with the undying kid within them that watches wrestling. The theatrical feel mixed with imagInation, the magic of wrestling...the passion. THESE were the fans, and these fans were catching on to ECW.

 

Well, a few thousand were. Big numbers, though? Nah.

 

By now the internet was trying to keep up with ECW/wCw/WWF action online. the early "smarks" may have known some internet news, maybe as much as we do now, but who cared? The product was great, whether you were in the middle of the wCw/WWF WAR or just loving ECW you were happy. Even when ECW's inspiration spilled over to create "WWF Attitude" and all of a sudden valets, catfights, and violence were apart of wCw and WWF shows now. Of course the ECW fans knew what was going on, we saw T-shirts at ECW shows with "Fuck WWF" or "Fuck Vince" "ECW: Where the REAL big boys play" and so on...We knew what was going on and we didn't like it...Problem was the big two swooped up the talent...Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steve Austin, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio, and others were in ECW before singing to wCw or WWF.

 

And ALL of those guys were with OTHER companies (SMW comes to mind --- which was a better promotion than ECW). What about THOSE companies?

 

,the "big two" caught on and were working hard to make sure ECW stayed down.

 

Ignoring Vince keeping them afloat.

 

For years.

 

The elaborate stage sets got bigger, and while ECW stayed a low-budget show, even the WWF couldn't keep them away when they "invaded" Raw one night. AN obvious plot by Vince to show the "marks" the better of the two brands and it stayed that way.

 

OR...was it a ploy to fill up RAW with a lot of his talent on an overseas tour and giving a group that he had an odd affection for their first real national exposure?

 

BTW, it SHOULD be noted that the ECW matches on that RAW were horrid.

 

Vince started making moves as well. Tazz was swooped up, The Dudley Boyz, Al Snow, Shane Douglas, one by one the "big two" would make the first move.

 

Wasn't Snow in ECW due to the WWF/ECW talent exchange? And, how did the WWF "swoop" them up? Because they wanted to get PAID to WORK?

 

if only they would of left ECW alone.

 

ECW would've died years ago.

 

The Bret Hart screwjob

Take sides or not, this was one of the biggets moments in wrestling history. The fateful night when Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, even Earl Hebner collectively "screwed" over Bret Hart was the first implicatons that wrestling is more than it seems to be. The Hitman spelled it out "WCW" in the air and it made you wonder "what is this"? Word got out that it was a "screwjob" and people wanted answers...They wouldn't get it from the newspaper, the internet had the answers...Was this a bad thing? of course not. Remember passion? Any fan that CARED about wrestling wanted to know what exactly happened and to this day details are still misconstruded, but the point is, that moment left us wondering, us: the "internet smarks" wondering "What more goes into this?" Like any passion we wanted to know more, so we learned...Time passed, and our knowledge grew...We now knew what "wrestling terms" were, we could point out and see storylines and botched spots, we knew about what went on backstage

 

BWA HA HA HA HA!

 

We know SQUAT about what goes on backstage. To think we do is asinine.

 

and "Beyond the Mat" the movie showed us even more. We were hungry.

 

So were the ECW wrestlers when they weren't paid. Which happened a lot.

 

Why shouldn't we be? This is our passion, we want to know as much as possible. Are we bad people for that? Even further with the Hogan/Jarrett/Russo shoot where Hogan wouldn't job to Jarrett, with the Steiner/Goldberg/nash controversy

 

Did anybody CARE about the Hogan/Jarrett thing? And what Nash/Steiner/GB controversy? Who'd get to do the shoot interview on Thunder that week?

 

with the power that came with each wCw and WWF came the EGOS, and as we saw it play out we started to get angry. Wrestling wasn't "family oriented" BACKSTAGE anymore, it was a selfish, rotting pit of Egomaniacal waste. Vince and Ted wanted ratings and would do anything to get it. Even from Eric Bischoff giving results from WWF shows on a wCw show. The backstabbing, the twists, the need for money and fame on both sides and it caught up to wCW...wCW was falling apart, and it was falling fast.

 

Wrestling was never a "family" backstage. There is a reason why it was never unionized.

 

ECW, stayed a family.

 

A hungry, starving family, mind you.

 

Every show had heart and blood sweat and tears

 

But not much quality or entertainment value.

 

the wrestlers backstage and the ECW fans were one collective family:

 

He IS funny.

 

The names weren't important. By now though the WWF and the wCw got all the names...ECW had Justin Credible and RVD

 

God knows Credible was a draw.

 

....wCw had Goldberg and Sting...WWF had Austin and the Rock. The ECW chemistry and working environment if applied to wCw would of kept them alive, and if applied to the WWE today could have made Vince Mcmhaon's head explode.

 

And if their accounting was used by a major corporation, well, they'd be in prison.

 

This seperation created "SMARKS". Why would we want to watch an overbuilt wrestler who can't talk and can only do two moves when we can see someone with pure talent, jump off the top ropes through a table and make the place go nuts?

 

New Jack was talent? Credible was talent? Sandman was talent? Bastardizing that term a bit, are we?

 

Even until it's death, ECW was always innovating, and we as SMARKS knew this: But then, the worst happened...

 

Innovating what, exactly?

 

The Death of ECW

Why? Why we asked? How could this have happened?

 

No money? Weak fan support?

 

ECW didn't fall apart family wise but money wise, and it sucked. It sucked alot.

 

No argument here. ECW DID suck.

 

We knew the talent would go places, we knew Tajiri, RVD, Rhyno, Justin Credible, Guido Maritato, Jerry Lynn and others would make it...It wouldn't be the same though. ECW worked.

 

Of course, going bankrupt implies that it might not have worked that well.

 

There wasn't any egos

 

Interesting news to anybody who followed them at all.

 

Paul Heyman was a father figure to the roster and the death of ECW culminated into a lot of fans driving themselves into confusion...What now?

 

Where can I swear a lot, yell "You Fucked Up", and chant misogynistic chants at any woman involved?

 

The WWF? It's okay, it has it's moments and at the time of ECW's departure was good television. It still wasn't the same though. Now we as smarks had lost our perfect product, and the criticism began of the other two...

 

ECW was the "perfect" product.

 

Just checking, is this Joey Styles writing?

 

Then Vince had to be the King...

 

the death of wCw came shortly after ECW...This could of been it, I mean Ted Turner obviously did not care about wrestling, and when bids were up Eric Bischoff himself could have bought it, he could of saved it and molded it into a successful brand....

 

TECHNICALLY, he had years to do that and, save a 2-year period, was quite an unprofitable head of a company.

 

Vince had to be god though. What would Vince do with wCw? He already raided ECW of it's ideas and talent why wCW? give them a chance! NO! Vince out-bidded and BAM! wCw was his...but htis wasn't an opportunity to Vince...Vince didn't see this as a way to make the wrestling world better...Vince just wanted to "WIN" and he did. What came with it? Has any big name wCw wrestler held ANY world title besides the recent Goldberg?

 

WCW wasn't exactly laden with talent.

 

He molded the talent into what HE wanted. Booker T, the Hurricane, Kidman, all different.

 

Hurricane is an improvement. And Booker is more entertaining.

 

Vince McMahon didn't care, he just wanted to WIN. He wanted ratings while he was doing it as he set up the WCW/ECW invasion. Even though led by Steve Austin? What a slap in the face to wCw.

 

Hmm, WCW losing tens of millions wasn't a slap in the face?

 

Through the failed and pathetic attempt at the new nWo led by another WWE superstar it was apparent that Vince did not care about anything but ratings and his own. Throughout all of this fans read online what was going on backstage with the wCw/WWE debaucle and when the invasion faded and time passed, it just worsened....

 

So let me ask you, how did WE ruin wrestling?

 

Talent mistakes acrobatics for good ring work. They injure themselves and retire many years earlier than they used to. They produce matches that are bad in a whole different way than they used to be bad. And fans have become bigger jerks, honestly.

 

Are you telling me you would be as entertained NOW as you were 3 years ago? KNOWING the wrestlers triple H kept down and his power, knowing the defamation of Piper, and Hogan, Vince McMahon constantly on our TV screens even as far as booking himself in a match with his own daughter...2 wrestlers could of used that spot to shine. McMahon shunning and quelling ANY reason or other thoughts or ideas other than his own? EX: Paul Heyman losing his writing team job due to him actually stepping up to Vince McMahon. RVD, Rosey and Hurricane etc...CAN'T BEAT KANE! BUT SHANE MCMAHON CAN! To any one that HAS PASSION towards wrestling how could you NOT care about all the stuff that is going on? Do you sit there and simply say "what can I do?" you say that it's OUR fault? WE DIDN'T MAKE THE EGOS. We actually speak out! What a concept! Speaking out! You don't like something than try to change it or speak out! What's that? YOU LIKE the current WWE product? You must not have watched in the past 7 years to see what wrestling once was...because wrestling is not family anymore. Wrestling is a money making machine and that is it. Go out and do your job!

 

How big of a mark must you be to assume that wrestling wasn't ALWATS a "money-making" machine?

 

I'll avoid shocking you about that whole Santa Claus thing.

 

Wrestling has lost so much...We don't see a family anymore, we see egos, we see mid-carders kept at mid-card for years when the main eventers fail to perform at even sub-par decency.

 

As an ECW mutant, I thought he'd applaud that.

 

We see announcers and GM's and CEO's who should be behind the scenes, become the main event in spots where a wrestler with a chance to break in and this selfishness is displayed we in and week out. Wrestling has even lost announcers...Joey Styles, Gorilla Monsoon, Alfred Hayes, all gone.

 

Losing Hayes is a bad thing? And Styles was as overrated as a man could be.

 

Jim Ross has trouble calling one match, and you'd be lucky if you'll hear one move called by him.

 

Yet he's STILL better than Styles was.

 

Would you want to watch a football game if the announcers couldn't call the game? Especially if you have passion for the game. The loss of announcers and the lack of moves called is a slap in the face and an insult to wrestling. WHo cares about athleticism when you can "believe the hype"? Flash, pyros, and egos...Who needs wrestling? Storylines that go absolutely nowhere, and end without reason, matches that stun audiences with wrestlers who will never get a chance to main event a PPV moreless Raw ever again

 

Again, sounds like post-1996 ECW.

 

..The leader, who will not be reasoned with, because he is the self=proclaimed wrestling GOD. This is what wrestling has become.

 

So if you call it "bitching" then so be it. I question your ability to care about the business, if you cared you would be with me, but if you turn away and tell me to shut up, I have to ask "where's your passion?"

 

Remember passion? I do. But I could just be bitching...

 

You're worse than bitching. You're making an ass of yourself.

-=Mike

Edited October 8, 2003 by TheMikeSC

[Guest Loss]

I should also mention that while ECW did have good qualities and moderate success for a very short period of time, they have been romanticized beyond belief since they closed their doors. I would say Heyman was actually promoting wrestling had Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Jericho, Storm or Lynn ever managed to hold the top belt, but he was no better at spotlighting wrestlers than WCW was, meaning he put them out there without a storyline to fill time.

 

Of course, WCW was criticized for never elevating the darlings to the top while ECW was praised for even featuring them, when all that the above names did was take a backseat to guys like Sandman and Dreamer anyway.

 

Chris Benoit never won the ECW title.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Hey...I wrote a better more coherent less stupid version of this a long time ago in an unread TNA preview.

[humongous2002 0]

yes, how DARE he like ECW...the heathen!

If you're going to write a piece bashing everybody but ECW, expect to get shredded as ECW DESERVES more shredding than most companies.

-=Mike

...and God knows WWF and WCW fans were more realistic about their companies than ECW mutants were --- and ECW fans weren't exactly fond of the talent

TURD ALERT!!!!!

[Guest netslob]

Well, unless you look at things like tiny audience numbers that never got much above 5,000 at any point in the company's history.

 

yeah, lord knows 5,000 is a "tiny" number...

 

Wrestling was never a "family" backstage. There is a reason why it was never unionized.

 

yeah, Mcmahon has the Pinkertons on speed-dial...

 

QUOTE 

and "Beyond the Mat" the movie showed us even more. We were hungry.

 

So were the ECW wrestlers when they weren't paid. Which happened a lot.

 

ECW, stayed a family.

A hungry, starving family, mind you.

 

ok, you made that joke twice...we GET IT...

 

And fans have become bigger jerks, honestly.

 

BOY, i'll say!

 

You're worse than bitching. You're making an ass of yourself.

 

yeah, hello, Pot? this is the Kettle...i just called to say that your black.

[Papacita 0]

I should also mention that while ECW did have good qualities and moderate success for a very short period of time, they have been romanticized beyond belief since they closed their doors. I would say Heyman was actually promoting wrestling had Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Jericho, Storm or Lynn ever managed to hold the top belt, but he was no better at spotlighting wrestlers than WCW was, meaning he put them out there without a storyline to fill time.

Lynn was ECW Champion for about a month or so in 2000. Also, while I didn't watch that often during Benoit's, Guerrero's and Malenko's runs, I'd say Jericho was handled very well for the amount of time he was there.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

It was awfully nice of him to ignore the fact that both Austin and Benoit wrestled in WCW before going to ECW...

 

Also, that whole Andre/Hogan section made me want to split my head open with a butter knife.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Benoit, Malenko, and Guerrero were in ECW for what, a year? How many shows did ECW have in a year?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

And because these guys were in the company for less than a year, ECW was the "true wrestling company" for all six and a half years of its existence. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, they may have used ECW as a springboard and a temporary home while their careers were in transition, but that doesn't mean that we're all indebted to ECW for that reason only. If that were the case, then the same should go to Japan, Mexico and Stampede, areas that at least COULD claim to be about the wrestling when those three weren't around.

 

yes, how DARE he like ECW...the heathen!

 

How about ATTEMPTING to refute the opposing points instead of spouting off the sarcasm? It doesn't help your case.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

The man has his opinion, give him a break.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

No.

[Slayer 0]

In all the bashing of the factual issues within the article (I thought the history "lesson" was unnecessary, myself), the main point of his article became quite buried: Have internet fans (smarks) ruined wrestling?

 

To me it seems to fall back to two major schools of thought :

 

1. The people who still watch in hopes of the product improving and bitch about what they hate, and

 

2. The people who don't watch anymore but still hang around just to tell group 1 to either shut up or stop watching.

 

So what is a fan to do? We bitch because we hate what we see, but we have no effect on the business. We want to watch in hopes of improvement, and sometimes we feel like walking away because we remember how it used to be good, but it's hard to give up something when you've been a fan for so long (although necrophelia does make it a bit easier) and remember "the good ol' days"

[Fökai 0]

The man has his opinion, give him a break.

That wasn't an opinion.

 

He was spouting off false stories, jaded opinions and bitter remarks as FACT.

[haVoc 0]

He was spouting off false stories, jaded opinions and bitter remarks as FACT.

And the difference between that and the "news" we get from 1Wrestling/Dave which we discuss here is?

[Jack_Bauer 0]

Being an ECW mark im gonna defend this shit till the end.

 

OK. I know that towards the end ECW was a streaming pile of dog shit and they had some of the worst talent in pro wrestling.

 

Look at guys like New Jack and Justin Credible, who really are poor wrestlers. They were pretty bad workers but for some reason New Jack drew a LOT of heat. Maybe not buyrates and ratings which is what matters in the end, but in the arena, and his music hits, there was ALWAYS a huge cheer. No excuses for Credible though, but he DID have good matches with Jerry Lynn but that isn't much of an arguement.

 

But ECW also had it's fair share of good talent. Rhyno isn't a bad wrestler by any stretch of the imagination. EZ Money is a superb athlete and Steve Corino is a REALLY good heel, and is good at telling a story in the ring. We then come to guys like Maritato, Tajiri, Tony Mamaluke ( underrated wrestler ), Kid Kash ( OK a bit of a spot monkey at times but has talent ) and CW Anderson. These were all guys who made a name for themselves in the US in ECW.

 

As for the guys arguement about Benoit, Benoit WAS in WCW before the ECW days.

 

OK, ECW in the end got what was coming, but some of the stuff you seen there was WAY better than what you see on RAW. I do kinda miss it, and I do kinda feel that ECW DID have something to offer if it survived.

[Guest MikeSC]

yeah, lord knows 5,000 is a "tiny" number...

 

When you're bleeding money, as ECW was, 5,000 is nothing special. The WWF KEPT ECW AFLOAT --- FOR YEARS.

 

Obviously, their product couldn't keep them in business for any length of time.

 

yeah, Mcmahon has the Pinkertons on speed-dial...

 

Ah, so you don't know that Hogan ratted out Ventura for trying to start a union, thus killing it?

 

ok, you made that joke twice...we GET IT...

 

Do you have any idea how often we've heard these same asinine claims from ECW mutants?

 

And fans have become bigger jerks, honestly.

 

BOY, i'll say!

 

Sorry, wasn't aware that I was one of the ones trying to play "obnoxious smark" at house shows, or chanting "You Fucked Up" when something in a match goes awry.

 

My mistake.

 

You're worse than bitching. You're making an ass of yourself.

 

yeah, hello, Pot? this is the Kettle...i just called to say that your black.

 

Oh God, quoting "Friends"?!?!?

 

I feel for you.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Being an ECW mark im gonna defend this shit till the end.

 

Fair enough. I disagree a lot, though.

 

OK. I know that towards the end ECW was a streaming pile of dog shit and they had some of the worst talent in pro wrestling.

 

Basically.

 

Look at guys like New Jack and Justin Credible, who really are poor wrestlers. They were pretty bad workers but for some reason New Jack drew a LOT of heat. Maybe not buyrates and ratings which is what matters in the end, but in the arena, and his music hits, there was ALWAYS a huge cheer. No excuses for Credible though, but he DID have good matches with Jerry Lynn but that isn't much of an arguement.

 

Lynn v Credible didn't do much for me --- but New Jack was Hacksaw Duggan, except he used props and crappy music to get over instead of --- whatever the heck Duggan did to get over (and, unlike Jack, Duggan actually did have some good matches in his career). New Jack popularized absolute crap wrestling. He was no better than Axl Rotten.

 

But ECW also had it's fair share of good talent. Rhyno isn't a bad wrestler by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Yes, ECW had some good talent. Rhyno wasn't terribly good in ECW --- but he was REAL green. He's been given the seasoning he needs in WWE and is a much better worker. I wouldn't call him great, but he is pretty good.

 

EZ Money is a superb athlete

 

Actually, he's the guy I'm most shocked the WWE didn't try for. He got over big in WCW and did it quickly --- why the WWE wouldn't take a chance on him for their CW division was puzzling.

 

and Steve Corino is a REALLY good heel, and is good at telling a story in the ring.

 

Gotta disagree big-time here. Nothing Corino did impressed me. He is the definition of mediocrity. He's X-Pac, without the potential to be carried to a legit good match.

 

We then come to guys like Maritato, Tajiri, Tony Mamaluke ( underrated wrestler ), Kid Kash ( OK a bit of a spot monkey at times but has talent ) and CW Anderson. These were all guys who made a name for themselves in the US in ECW.

 

Not a Guido fan, but I can appreciate why people like the guy. He seems to be able to work a good ring style --- it just doesn't work for me. Tajiri is gold and the fact that he's still over in spite of the WWE's schizophrenic booking of him is a miracle. Tony might be decent, but he made his name with insane stunts and that, combined with his injuries, would make me REAL hesitant to touch him. I could see Jeff Hardy V 1.0 with him.

 

Kash is nothing. Kash never was anything. He's little more than a spot monkey, and he's not a good spot monkey. C.W is solid, but I assume he's not a big guy (ECW was full of smaller guys) and his style will be harder to sell in the WWE where everybody is half-giant. I didn't like the C.W v Dreamer series, but I did think Anderson could work pretty well.

 

As for the guys arguement about Benoit, Benoit WAS in WCW before the ECW days.

 

OK, ECW in the end got what was coming, but some of the stuff you seen there was WAY better than what you see on RAW

.

 

Honestly, I disagree. I watched a lot of ECW and their stuff could be painful. The ME would almost universally suck (Taz was bad, Shane was bad, Sabu was painfully bad) and they had to hope and pray that their extremely hit-and-miss undercard could carry the water.

 

ECW just didn't have nearly the talent that they told their fans they had. Their best match EVER on PPV didn't even INVOLVE ECW talent.

 

I do kinda miss it, and I do kinda feel that ECW DID have something to offer if it survived.

 

ECW's style burned up workers far too fast. I used to love SMW --- and I think, top to bottom, it had better workers than ECW. But SMW couldn't survive, either.

-=Mike

[Damaramu 0]

He fails to mention that most of those guys if NOT ALL of them(with the exception of Dreamer) were using ECW as a springboard to get themselves to one of the Big 2.

[Guest netslob]

And because these guys were in the company for less than a year, ECW was the "true wrestling company" for all six and a half years of its existence. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, they may have used ECW as a springboard and a temporary home while their careers were in transition, but that doesn't mean that we're all indebted to ECW for that reason only. If that were the case, then the same should go to Japan, Mexico and Stampede, areas that at least COULD claim to be about the wrestling when those three weren't around.

 

yes, how DARE he like ECW...the heathen!

 

How about ATTEMPTING to refute the opposing points instead of spouting off the sarcasm? It doesn't help your case.

maybe not, but i'm having fun!

 

Ah, so you don't know that Hogan ratted out Ventura for trying to start a union, thus killing it?

 

actually, i DID know that, for what it's worth

 

Do you have any idea how often we've heard these same asinine claims from ECW mutants?

 

i dunno...HOW OFTEN?

 

Sorry, wasn't aware that I was one of the ones trying to play "obnoxious smark" at house shows, or chanting "You Fucked Up" when something in a match goes awry.

 

My mistake.

 

well, now you know...no apologies necessary...

 

Oh God, quoting "Friends"?!?!?

 

huh, that's a 'Friends' quote? didn't know that, i never watch Friends...i heard it somewhere else, i forget where. now that i know it's a Friends quote, i not gonna use it any more

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

When he said WCW was "respected" and spelled in the asinine "logo spelling" I stopped. WCW fucked up every opportunity it ever had.

 

Oh and ECW was cool in spite of stupid hardcore brawls. Because of the occaisional workrate, and the cool spots, and the GREAT CHARCTERS. ECW was great storytelling.