Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 It's late and I must say if those spoilers are true (and I'll confirm with Mr. J that I've gone out and read the exact same thing), I'm going to just be utterly disappointed. I was quite impressed with the Matrix, Matrix: Reloaded was quite bland as the pacing of the movie killed me (although, I was brought back to life thanks to Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) and frankly I'm not really wanting to see Revolutions. I mean, I like the depth of story (apparently the whole family got what zing over everyone's head in Reloaded with the Architect's speech) and I like the action, but it seems as if Reloaded was basically made to put some breather room in for a true explanation of the Matrix. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): And may I ask, why the fuck does that "kid" get to be "The One" and we don't even see how the fuck Neo saved him? What's the point then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 19, 2003 I would be willing to bet they are real Flik, and I to will be disapointed. Very anti-climaxtic for the series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 Well, a cynical ending can be a good thing (see T3, that was a real downer but was very effective). But in this case after waiting 3 movies there really needs to be a legit payoff. The problem is that Reloaded screwed the pooch so much that there is really no good way of paying it off. From any angle you look at it, people will be pissed: --If Neo and Co. succeed and destroy the Matrix, freeing everyone, then everyone will be pissed at having to live in a scorched earth hellhole. --If Neo and Co. fail then the entire series is kinda pointless and people will be pissed. That's true, but A LOT more people would be pissed about --If Neo and Co. fail then the entire series is kinda pointless and people will be pissed. rather than --If Neo and Co. succeed and destroy the Matrix, freeing everyone, then everyone will be pissed at having to live in a scorched earth hellhole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JohnnySwift Report post Posted October 19, 2003 It's late and I must say if those spoilers are true (and I'll confirm with Mr. J that I've gone out and read the exact same thing), I'm going to just be utterly disappointed. I was quite impressed with the Matrix, Matrix: Reloaded was quite bland as the pacing of the movie killed me (although, I was brought back to life thanks to Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) and frankly I'm not really wanting to see Revolutions. I mean, I like the depth of story (apparently the whole family got what zing over everyone's head in Reloaded with the Architect's speech) and I like the action, but it seems as if Reloaded was basically made to put some breather room in for a true explanation of the Matrix. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): And may I ask, why the fuck does that "kid" get to be "The One" and we don't even see how the fuck Neo saved him? What's the point then? Spoiler (Highlight to Read): As best as I understand to understand the kid you have to watch the Animatrix. There's a short film in the middle that explains his story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 It's late and I must say if those spoilers are true (and I'll confirm with Mr. J that I've gone out and read the exact same thing), I'm going to just be utterly disappointed. I was quite impressed with the Matrix, Matrix: Reloaded was quite bland as the pacing of the movie killed me (although, I was brought back to life thanks to Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) and frankly I'm not really wanting to see Revolutions. I mean, I like the depth of story (apparently the whole family got what zing over everyone's head in Reloaded with the Architect's speech) and I like the action, but it seems as if Reloaded was basically made to put some breather room in for a true explanation of the Matrix. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): And may I ask, why the fuck does that "kid" get to be "The One" and we don't even see how the fuck Neo saved him? What's the point then? Spoiler (Highlight to Read): As best as I understand to understand the kid you have to watch the Animatrix. There's a short film in the middle that explains his story. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): And how many people would even think of BOTHERING with the Animatrix? Just so that they know a single story. Not that many. Plus I doubt many would get the connection. At least not until after a couple of times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JohnnySwift Report post Posted October 19, 2003 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): As best as I understand to understand the kid you have to watch the Animatrix. There's a short film in the middle that explains his story. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): And how many people would even think of BOTHERING with the Animatrix? Just so that they know a single story. Not that many. Plus I doubt many would get the connection. At least not until after a couple of times. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Very true, the only reason I made the connection was because of how bad that particular one was. Depending on how you look at it though, the movies, Animatrix and Enter the Matrix are all connected. Not so much to the point that you need to see the supplimental stuff to understand the movies but it gives more perspective to the movies. With that being said I hope the spoilers are wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Very true, the only reason I made the connection was because of how bad that particular one was. Depending on how you look at it though, the movies, Animatrix and Enter the Matrix are all connected. Not so much to the point that you need to see the supplimental stuff to understand the movies but it gives more perspective to the movies. With that being said I hope the spoilers are wrong. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Yes, they add to the Matrix, but you NEED to finish the Matrix first before you start adding stuff to that world. Hell, I'd have preferred if the spoilers are totally wrong. Just because the whole movie sounds utterly LAMEASS. As for the spoilers, they'd better be wrong. But what would be correct? Seriously, I don't think there is any possible way to end the trilogy without causing a crapfest. Also, I know I took out a little bit of your spoiler thing, but it's only becuase I didn't see it as a spoiler and hence I could get some convo out of the spoiler text. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 I mean hell dude, no one CARES about the Animatrix! Why would anyone watch it with the anticipation of knowing seriously relevant info? Here's an idea: if it's that important, put it in the actual movie! Spoiler (Highlight to Read): This whole thing with the Kid being the ONE is just beyond stupid. First off, no one cares about the Kid, he was only in ONE SCENE in Reloaded where he begs to join the group. Second, it makes no sense. If Neo isn't the ONE how the hell does he do stuff that no one else is doing? I mean, maybe he's not the One, but well, he's just above average. WTF? I mean, if this Kid is the ONE we should know much more about him and at least be able to envision it. Right now he's a nothing character. And yeah, I can't think of any way to really end this in a way that will satisfy people. You just can't do it, the storyline is too fucked up at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 And yeah, I can't think of any way to really end this in a way that will satisfy people. You just can't do it, the storyline is too fucked up at this point. Actually, I think it would piss people off even more if they suddenly were told: "Oh and you'd have to watch the Animatrix to understand WTF this particular storyline is working into the movie" Seriously, that's a cop out. If it's an important part fo the story, then put it the fucking hell in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 If any of these lame spoilers are true about how the end of revolutions comes about, i am just going to stick to my original thoughts after i saw the first matrix, which was basically, that once Neo realizes he is the one and can be god within the matrix, then a further story is not needed. I thought the first one was good and the ending pretty much led folks to believe that now that Neo has realized his powers, it is over for the machines, hence the virus code error thing right before the credits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HellSpawn 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 Im as angry as you about this spoilers possibilities. But, like you guys said, almost ALL the possibilites are leading to a CRAPPY ENDING. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DVD Spree Report post Posted October 20, 2003 --Neo and Co. destroy the Matrix for good (how this can happen I'm not sure), everyone is freed. Let's see, we have a huge amount of characters who would be totally gone (all agents, Architect, Oracle, French dude, etc). Also since 99% of the people PREFER the Matrix anyway they might be just a little bit pissed at these self righteous pricks "freeing" them from something they had no desire to be free of to begin with! Hell, they're more liable to riot and kill Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity once they realize their nice phony life is gone and now they live in a scorched earth shithole. That's such an allegory for the Iraq conflict it's not even funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 Take one-third for example. 1 over 3 is 0.33333 recurring. A computer cannot deal with recurring numbers, so must accept a limit, let's say 0.33333 for argument's sake. Multiply by 3, you get 0.99999 - never 1.00000, where has the "remainder" 0.00001 (One) gone? Mathematically speaking, 0.99999... IS 1. It's the sum of an infinite arithmetic series. .99999... can be expressed as .9 + .09 + .009 + .0009, etc. The formula for the sum of an infinite arithmetic series is S= A1/1-r, where A1 (the 1 is subscript, which I can't represent here) is the first term in the sequence, and r is the rate of change. Thus, the equation becomes S= .9/(1-.1), since the rate of change is .1. Thus, it reduces to .9/.9, which, as well all know, is 1. Indicates that she is a program because that's not some random password she's put in. 101 is binary for 5, which in zero-based binary counting: 000 is 1, 001, is 2, 010 is 3, 011 is 4, 100 is 5, 101 is 6 - And this is the 6th version of the Matrix! Wrong, wrong, a thousand times wrong. How the fuck is 000 supposed to be 1? 0 is 0, 1 is 1, 10 is 2, 11 is 3, 100 is 4, 101 is 5, 110 is 6, etc... This is basic binary counting. which is not "zero-based" like the article ignorantly claims. Binary is a base-2 number system, while the number system we use everyday is base-10. It's possible that the ideas presented are valid, but when the original article contains basic errors like that, it's quite difficult to take it seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 Another couple points: I recognized Agent Smith as a virus when I first saw Reloaded. Then again, I deal with virii regularly, so the patterns of behavior are easy for me to spot. The Architecht talked like that (and I'm certain he said "assiduously" instead of "sedulosly," or whatever is attributed to him) because he was supposed to be a pompous ass. He kept harping about how perfect the original Matrix was, only ruined by imperfect humans who couldn't accept it. It's obvious to see in his character that he thought himself to be perfect, thus his dialog was peppered with fifty-cent words to show off his arrogance. It's not a knock on the Wachowski brothers' storytelling at all, unless you don't know much about how a story is supposed to be told. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NCJ Report post Posted October 20, 2003 It is clear from the trailer that Neo will make some type of deal with the machines. I don't know if the spoilers are true or not, but it does seem plausible. The kid becoming the new architect is bullshit, but alot of major characters will die. What was said does fit the trailers, and other parts of the Matrix continum. Honestly I hope they don't go that route because it will be sort of anti climatic for the machines to actually save everyone. However the people who say it dosen't make sense for this person or that person to be important because they weren't in the first movie a wrong. The Emporer wasn't in A New Hope, and barely in Empire, but he is damn important in Return of the Jedi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2003 Doesn't mean anything. They've back themselves into a corner. A really sharp one. It's tight and I don't really think they'll get out of it without having to fight for the way out. And whenever a series of movies does that, it never turns out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Did the lady who plays the Oracle die?? Because it's a new actress playing her in Revolutions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ravenbomb 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Oh, God, they're going to turn this into fucking Mind Walk, aren't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 My brother said something like that, about the Oracle lady dying. I'm not sure. The Emperor doesn't really fit anyone in the Matrix, maybe the Architect but that's about it. Thing is, the Emperor was menacing, he was scary looking, his lectures on the darkside made sense.....he was COOL. The Architect was like listening to Col. Sanders discuss probability in a college math class. I mean, this is was big shot for this guy to build his heel credibility, and all he did was bore the shit out of me. I assume this is a reference to the Kid being more significant in Revs. It doesn't fly. The kid was a totally nothing character in Reloaded, he meant about as much to me as all of the other peons in Zion. I mean, they introduce various characters in Reloaded but not a single one of them was worth a crap. Niobe? Lock? The Kid? Architect? French guy? They all were 1 dimensional, tedious characters. Particularly the Niobe/Morpheus/Lock thing. It was just mentioned by Trinity in passing...and that was it. The Wachowski's are so interested in having long boring speeches about cause/effect relationships that they fail to go into any depth on that fairly substantial plot point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JohnnySwift Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Did the lady who plays the Oracle die?? Because it's a new actress playing her in Revolutions. Gloria Foster died sometime during the filming of the third movie. They did a decent job of explaining the replacement in Enter the Matrix, but like Lightning Flik said you can't add on until you finish. Sucks that she died, because a lot of the last 2 films had to be rewritten around the death of Alleyah and Gloria Foster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Lemme just say if Revolutions doesn't give a suitable explanation, I will fucking riot. I second that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spicy McHaggis 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Niobe? Lock? The Kid? Architect? French guy? They all were 1 dimensional, tedious characters. And? The movie isn't called The Merovingian: Reloaded. It's the Matrix with Neo seconded by Trinity and Morpheus. Maybe you're not familiar with the concept of fiction writing but most secondary characters are supposed to be flat, static, and 1 dimensional. And I'm sorry you didn't get the Architect scene, but he nailed his heelishness. His demeanor was harsh and cold, firm and unfeeling, like a machine. His dialogue was that of a condescending, piece-of-shit know-it-all. Maybe you couldn't stay with the big words, but that scene was not only major, it was very well done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NCJ Report post Posted October 21, 2003 cabbageboy Posted on Oct 20 2003, 10:43 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My brother said something like that, about the Oracle lady dying. I'm not sure. The Emperor doesn't really fit anyone in the Matrix, maybe the Architect but that's about it. Thing is, the Emperor was menacing, he was scary looking, his lectures on the darkside made sense.....he was COOL. The Architect was like listening to Col. Sanders discuss probability in a college math class. I mean, this is was big shot for this guy to build his heel credibility, and all he did was bore the shit out of me. I assume this is a reference to the Kid being more significant in Revs. It doesn't fly. The kid was a totally nothing character in Reloaded, he meant about as much to me as all of the other peons in Zion. I mean, they introduce various characters in Reloaded but not a single one of them was worth a crap. Niobe? Lock? The Kid? Architect? French guy? They all were 1 dimensional, tedious characters. Particularly the Niobe/Morpheus/Lock thing. It was just mentioned by Trinity in passing...and that was it. The Wachowski's are so interested in having long boring speeches about cause/effect relationships that they fail to go into any depth on that fairly substantial plot point I agree with most of that however I'm not so sure how cool the Emporer really was before Return of the Jedi. My statements were more about people just making blatant comments like they couldn't be important to the prophesy because they weren't around in the first movie when the prophesy was talked about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Niobe? Lock? The Kid? Architect? French guy? They all were 1 dimensional, tedious characters. And? The movie isn't called The Merovingian: Reloaded. It's the Matrix with Neo seconded by Trinity and Morpheus. Maybe you're not familiar with the concept of fiction writing but most secondary characters are supposed to be flat, static, and 1 dimensional. And I'm sorry you didn't get the Architect scene, but he nailed his heelishness. His demeanor was harsh and cold, firm and unfeeling, like a machine. His dialogue was that of a condescending, piece-of-shit know-it-all. Maybe you couldn't stay with the big words, but that scene was not only major, it was very well done. The Architects delivery of that line about how they have become "exceedingly good" at destroying Zion was definatly heelish enough for me. And it was totally set up through his use of overly complicated words. As seen in the beganing of the scene when he said "You're quicker than the others", the entire point of him talking like that was to confuse Neo and talk down to him. It really wasn't that hard to follow if you really listen to him, which, because of how he spoke you were required to do. That was the most important scene in the film to date, honestly, and using that type of dialect forced the viewer to not only listen to every single word that the he said, but to think about what he was saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 21, 2003 If they've done this six times already, then there must be some variable for it to stop happening again. I predict this variable is Agent Smith. The fans just love him so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 21, 2003 Another couple points: I recognized Agent Smith as a virus when I first saw Reloaded. Then again, I deal with virii regularly, so the patterns of behavior are easy for me to spot. The Architecht talked like that (and I'm certain he said "assiduously" instead of "sedulosly," or whatever is attributed to him) because he was supposed to be a pompous ass. He kept harping about how perfect the original Matrix was, only ruined by imperfect humans who couldn't accept it. It's obvious to see in his character that he thought himself to be perfect, thus his dialog was peppered with fifty-cent words to show off his arrogance. It's not a knock on the Wachowski brothers' storytelling at all, unless you don't know much about how a story is supposed to be told. Tom they can establish him as a pompous ass without giant words spoken in a dull, monotone, voice that NO ONE in the theater could decipher. I understand story. I don't understand writing down to one's audience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2003 I understand story. I don't understand writing down to one's audience. I don't think the Wachowskis were writing down to their audience. You don't need to know the meaning of every word the Architecht said. The point is conveyed by the simple fact he's using words like that in the haughty tone of voice he chose: he's a know-it-all machine jackass who believes he's perfect and is belittling Neo. "Show, don't tell" is an important maxim in storytelling, and the Wachowskis used it well there: they didn't tell us one thing about the Architecht, but rather let him show us all exactly what he was about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 22, 2003 Oooh, I know the surprise ending! Spoiler (Highlight to Read): It's Jason Todd! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ravenbomb 0 Report post Posted October 22, 2003 Just as long as it's not John Heard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 22, 2003 Just as long as it's not John Heard Or Tommy Elliot. (Ravenbomb doesn't get it AT ALL.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
