Crash Holly passes away

[Sideburnious 0]

Wow this took me completely by surprise. Who would have thought he would have died so young?

[Guest Choken One]

Choking on your own vomit is very common in the entertainment industry, and its usually drink related. Immediately Dave Williams (lead singer of Drowning Pool) and one of the members of AC/DC spring to mind.

 

RIP Crash

Actually, Williams was reveled to died of a heart complication...not drink related.

 

He suffered some rare type of thing.

[Guest Plushy Al Logan]

RIP

 

::Puts on WM 2000 DVD::

[Guest PowerPB13]

If Vince were held accountable for every death that people think he was either directly or indirectly responsible for, he'd be into serial killer territory and would either be a) behind bars or b) dead via execution.

 

Gee, and I just hate him for OWEN'S death...

 

-Patrick

Edited November 9, 2003 by PowerPB13

[welshjerichomark 0]

Man this is really bad.

 

RIP Crash

[The Mandarin 0]

Y'know, I thought the man would have died from a heart condition.

 

He did weigh 400 pounds, the scale proved it.

 

[King Cucaracha 0]

Damn, that's a major shock. Condolances to the friends, family and everyone...

 

R.I.P Crash

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

Huge shocker. Its always sad when someone dies so young and unexpected. I hope Hardcore Holly will have some sort of tribute to Elroy at the PPV.

[Yuna_Firerose 0]

Holy fuck...I just learned about this via my [now dead] Stevie group. It was a total shock! Crash just suddenly...dead? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Weren't Crash and Stevie, like, close friends? Geez....this sucks.

[Ultra Violence 0]

Choking on your own vomit is very common in the entertainment industry, and its usually drink related. Immediately Dave Williams (lead singer of Drowning Pool) and one of the members of AC/DC spring to mind.

 

RIP Crash

Actually, Williams was reveled to died of a heart complication...not drink related.

 

He suffered some rare type of thing.

It is pretty easy though, i've seen people so drunk that there constantly vomiting. If they pass out, and no one sober is watching them its just a matter of time.

[Guest OnlyMe]

Just inches away from the Crash Holly headline on WWE.com:

 

Can Mr. McMahon survive his Buried Alive Match at Survivor Series?

 

Oops.

 

 

 

/haven't read the thread, if it's been brought up before.

[Guest MikeSC]

I don't care what anyone says...

 

1) No one FORCED them to blah blah blah.

 

2) Vince can't watch everyone 24/7 (or whatever promoter they are working for).

 

3) They hurt, need painkillers.

 

4) *enter any other excuse here*

 

...the FACT, is that what is going on in this industry is UNNATURAL. There is obviously some fucked up shit going on, some fucked up shit that too many people are just ignoring and allowing to continue. We have a problem, there is a root to it somewhere, and it needs to be dealt with.

 

Period.

 

I don't have an answer, I don't even know what exactly the problem is. What I do know is that this needs to end. Sure, it'll never be totally over, but if something isn't done to slow this down, it's going to happen more and more, day after day, untill we're all knee deep in dead bodies, bodies of thos.

 

You wont be able to turn back the hands of time and deal with it then.

 

To just toss this aside and go "well, that's the business", that's just not true. It's not a part of the business to just die, and to see people die month after month.

 

I'm not in a posistion to say what should be done, none of us are. Still, SOMETHING needs to be done.

 

The problem isn't going away, it simply gets wose day by day now.

No offense, but ALL of this could easily be said about the music industry.

 

I don't see rampant calls for them to "fix the problem".

 

Wrestlers take drugs. It happens. They will possibly die from it. It's unfortunate.

 

It's not Vince's fault.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

After speaking to a friend about this (Mean Mark Ash, works up in NC and posts at WC) he talked to me a bit about a few things, I have a few ideas.

 

How about having the entire INDUSTRY cut down on relying so much on aerial and high impact moves and bumps, and going back to rely on TRUE psychology and the such, and allowing the aerial and high impact moves and bumps to be left for certain moments here and there. Besides, it'd make all of that stuff MEAN something in the end.

 

I'm not saying to have shit matches, just change the style the such. There are guys out there who couldn't cut it, but that's life. Perhaps it is time to go back to a more psychological style of Pro. Wrestlng, at least for a while.

 

Besides that, we need to fucking STOP with the harcore cut bodies that so many are trying to aquire and to keep. You don't need that shit to be a truly great Pro. Wrestler, just go back to the pre-90s and the such for proof of that. I could list Pro. Wrestlers all day that were truly great, that didn't have a cut as stone body.

 

If you mix those two things up, a combination of the two, then I think we might get somewhere. We could possibly cut down a bit on the HIGH need for painkillers (rampant use) and obviosly help cut down on the steroid use.

Yet, in this board, the WWE is getting reamed out for asking high-flyers to slow down in their matches.

 

Can't have it both ways.

-=Mike

[Guest Anglesault]

After speaking to a friend about this (Mean Mark Ash, works up in NC and posts at WC) he talked to me a bit about a few things, I have a few ideas.

 

How about having the entire INDUSTRY cut down on relying so much on aerial and high impact moves and bumps, and going back to rely on TRUE psychology and the such, and allowing the aerial and high impact moves and bumps to be left for certain moments here and there. Besides, it'd make all of that stuff MEAN something in the end.

 

I'm not saying to have shit matches, just change the style the such. There are guys out there who couldn't cut it, but that's life. Perhaps it is time to go back to a more psychological style of Pro. Wrestlng, at least for a while.

 

Besides that, we need to fucking STOP with the harcore cut bodies that so many are trying to aquire and to keep. You don't need that shit to be a truly great Pro. Wrestler, just go back to the pre-90s and the such for proof of that. I could list Pro. Wrestlers all day that were truly great, that didn't have a cut as stone body.

 

If you mix those two things up, a combination of the two, then I think we might get somewhere. We could possibly cut down a bit on the HIGH need for painkillers (rampant use) and obviosly help cut down on the steroid use.

Yet, in this board, the WWE is getting reamed out for asking high-flyers to slow down in their matches.

 

Can't have it both ways.

-=Mike

Of course, most of the WWE's theories on how to cut down on injuries are so fucking wrong it's not funny.

 

The Year, 2000. The WWF decides to eliminate piledrivers so as to reduce the risk of neck inuries.

 

 

Three years and a dozen neck injuries later and their theory doesn't quite hold water.

 

Two of their biggest injuries (HHH and Nash) of the last three years came from WALKING, so this "move slower" theory might be just as bad.

[Guest MikeSC]

After speaking to a friend about this (Mean Mark Ash, works up in NC and posts at WC) he talked to me a bit about a few things, I have a few ideas.

 

How about having the entire INDUSTRY cut down on relying so much on aerial and high impact moves and bumps, and going back to rely on TRUE psychology and the such, and allowing the aerial and high impact moves and bumps to be left for certain moments here and there. Besides, it'd make all of that stuff MEAN something in the end.

 

I'm not saying to have shit matches, just change the style the such. There are guys out there who couldn't cut it, but that's life. Perhaps it is time to go back to a more psychological style of Pro. Wrestlng, at least for a while.

 

Besides that, we need to fucking STOP with the harcore cut bodies that so many are trying to aquire and to keep. You don't need that shit to be a truly great Pro. Wrestler, just go back to the pre-90s and the such for proof of that. I could list Pro. Wrestlers all day that were truly great, that didn't have a cut as stone body.

 

If you mix those two things up, a combination of the two, then I think we might get somewhere. We could possibly cut down a bit on the HIGH need for painkillers (rampant use) and obviosly help cut down on the steroid use.

Yet, in this board, the WWE is getting reamed out for asking high-flyers to slow down in their matches.

 

Can't have it both ways.

-=Mike

Of course, most of the WWE's theories on how to cut down on injuries are so fucking wrong it's not funny.

 

The Year, 2000. The WWF decides to eliminate piledrivers so as to reduce the risk of neck inuries.

 

 

Three years and a dozen neck injuries later and their theory doesn't quite hold water.

 

Two of their biggest injuries (HHH and Nash) of the last three years came from WALKING, so this "move slower" theory might be just as bad.

So, let's see if I got this straight:

 

They need to address the problem.

 

But they can't actually CHANGE anything to possibly correct it because, darn it, the solution might NOT work.

 

Nice win-win you got them in there.

-=Mike

[Guest Anglesault]

After speaking to a friend about this (Mean Mark Ash, works up in NC and posts at WC) he talked to me a bit about a few things, I have a few ideas.

 

How about having the entire INDUSTRY cut down on relying so much on aerial and high impact moves and bumps, and going back to rely on TRUE psychology and the such, and allowing the aerial and high impact moves and bumps to be left for certain moments here and there. Besides, it'd make all of that stuff MEAN something in the end.

 

I'm not saying to have shit matches, just change the style the such. There are guys out there who couldn't cut it, but that's life. Perhaps it is time to go back to a more psychological style of Pro. Wrestlng, at least for a while.

 

Besides that, we need to fucking STOP with the harcore cut bodies that so many are trying to aquire and to keep. You don't need that shit to be a truly great Pro. Wrestler, just go back to the pre-90s and the such for proof of that. I could list Pro. Wrestlers all day that were truly great, that didn't have a cut as stone body.

 

If you mix those two things up, a combination of the two, then I think we might get somewhere. We could possibly cut down a bit on the HIGH need for painkillers (rampant use) and obviosly help cut down on the steroid use.

Yet, in this board, the WWE is getting reamed out for asking high-flyers to slow down in their matches.

 

Can't have it both ways.

-=Mike

Of course, most of the WWE's theories on how to cut down on injuries are so fucking wrong it's not funny.

 

The Year, 2000. The WWF decides to eliminate piledrivers so as to reduce the risk of neck inuries.

 

 

Three years and a dozen neck injuries later and their theory doesn't quite hold water.

 

Two of their biggest injuries (HHH and Nash) of the last three years came from WALKING, so this "move slower" theory might be just as bad.

So, let's see if I got this straight:

 

They need to address the problem.

 

But they can't actually CHANGE anything to possibly correct it because, darn it, the solution might NOT work.

 

Nice win-win you got them in there.

-=Mike

Well, when their ideas were proven to be failures but still making the product inferior, they should have rethought their methods.

 

When taking away the piledriver accomplished nothing but eliminating a move that could have been used to improve matches, why was the ban kept?

 

And I'd like to see the ratio of high flying related innjuries to the ones caused by walking (Clique, Batista) or whatever the hell took out Bradshaw.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, when their ideas were proven to be failures but still making the product inferior, they should have rethought their methods.

 

When taking away the piledriver accomplished nothing but eliminating a move that could have been used to improve matches, why was the ban kept?

 

And I'd like to see the ratio of high flying related innjuries to the ones caused by walking (Clique, Batista) or whatever the hell took out Bradshaw.

If the ban worked, how would you know? Perhaps there have been DOZENS of neck injuries AVOIDED. We don't know. They could eliminate the German suplex, but some would have puppies at the prospect.

 

You can't avoid freak injuries. That is a problem in life. You can try and reduce definite risks.

 

WWE didn't tell the high flyers to not fly. They told them to slow down and make their moves MEAN SOMETHING.

-=Mike

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, when their ideas were proven to be failures but still making the product inferior, they should have rethought their methods.

 

When taking away the piledriver accomplished nothing but eliminating a move that could have been used to improve matches, why was the ban kept?

 

And I'd like to see the ratio of high flying related innjuries to the ones caused by walking (Clique, Batista) or whatever the hell took out Bradshaw.

If the ban worked, how would you know? Perhaps there have been DOZENS of neck injuries AVOIDED. We don't know.

Well, considering the number of neck injuries actually went up since the ban started, I would say that wasn't the solution.

 

Besides Austin, which wasn't exactly a planned piledriver in the conventional sense anyway, who had gotten hurt on a piledriver to start this ban?

 

You can try and reduce definite risks.

 

I'd say pumping your body full of steroids and trying athletic feats is a definite risk. I see no dehossification process going on.

[Downhome 0]

This isn't rocket science or anything, really. I've said this once, but I'll say it once more.

 

There are two things that MUST be done. The first is that they need to cut down on relying so much on huge bumps, high spots, and gimmick matches all of the time. Besides the fact that that stuff means next to NOTHING when we see it anymore, it also takes a toll on everyone in that ring leading to more and more prescriptions being filled for everyone. At the same time they do this, they need to also teach MOST guys a bit of PSYCHOLOGY to be used in the matches. We have these new guys coming up all of the time it seems like, and most of them have no fucking idea of how to but a truly great Pro. Wrestling match together. If they keep bringing young guys in without knowing the true basics of this sport, where in the hell will we be in five or ten years?

 

Or really, where in the hell are we right NOW already?

 

The other thing that I believe would help, just as I'm sure most if not all of you agree with, is that they need to slow down/cease the steroid use. They need to quit promoting the image that to be a Pro. Wrestler, you must be cut like a block of stone. As long as this keeps going on, people are going to keep on passing away.

 

Don't get me wrong, we'll still see a ton of guys pass away from rampant steriod use and the such, we have already had an entire generation (or more) be hurt very bad by the shit. What can be done, and they can start right now, is that they can work on helping those new guys that we see in the ring right now, and those of the future.

 

It can be done, it's not impossible, I will not accept the "it's just the way it is" deal.

 

Because quite frankely, it doesn't have to be that way.

[spman 0]

Meh, no disrespect meant for Crash or anything, but he was never anything more then a second rate comedy worker who couldn't make it out of the lower mid-card. He didn't make that big of a contribution to the industry, so his death won't really end up meaning that much. He will be forever destined to be nothing more then the answer to a trivia question. BTW, is it true that he was fired for threatening Brian Gerwirtz?

[AndrewTS 0]

BTW, is it true that he was fired for threatening Brian Gerwirtz?

 

That's what I've heard, anyway.

 

If he'd have done something further, we might be giving him a hero's eulogy right now.

[Fökai 0]

And I'd like to see the ratio of high flying related innjuries to the ones caused by walking (Clique, Batista) or whatever the hell took out Bradshaw.

Attempting a "clothesline from hell" on Nowinski.

 

 

The problem isn't with dangerous moves. It's with the limiting of movesets, which makes wrestlers second-guess every move they do - resulting in sloppiness.