The Official MLB Offseason Topic

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Here's my prediction: The Toronto Bluejays will manage to sneak into the Playoffs via the Wild Card after beating the Yankees on the final day of the season in a one game playoff. Blue Jays face off against the Athletics and manage to get to the ALCS where they lose to the Red Sox. The Sox then manage to take on and defeat the Atlanta Braves in 7 games.

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't know if I'd ever watch baseball again.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'd love for neither the Red Sox or Yankees to make the postseason.

 

Like the Braves will make the World Series. Heck, the only way they win a series is if their playing the Astros.

 

Pettite to Houston would be awesome. Follow your heart Andy. Sign with the Astros.

[the pinjockey 0]

I can't believe how Vazquez just fell into the Yankees lap.

 

From Jayson Stark

It was only a week ago that Expos GM Omar Minaya was talking like a man who didn't feel much pressure to trade Javier Vazquez any time soon. But here's why he changed his mind, according to a variety of sources:

 

 

1) Minaya had a conversation with Vazquez in which Vazquez told him he'd prefer to be traded and couldn't envision himself re-signing with the Expos next winter after he became a free agent.

 

2) As Minaya began calling around, he found his options for dealing Vazquez were more limited than he'd originally thought. The Angels signed Kelvim Escobar. The Phillies traded for Eric Milton. And the Red Sox dealt for Curt Schilling. So the teams with both the dollars to spend and the players to give up were dwindling in a hurry.

 

3) With Bartolo Colon, Kevin Millwood, Andy Pettitte, Greg Maddux and Sidney Ponson still out there as free agents, Minaya felt that if he waited until the winter meetings and those free agents began to sign elsewhere, he might have even fewer options. So with the Yankees pressing him for an answer and only the Yankees and Braves left as serious bidders by Wednesday, Minaya took the best offer -- from New York.

 

So the Yankees have all the money they ever need, to throw at people, then they get luck on their side as well?!?

[the pinjockey 0]

Also found this interesting from Peter Gammons

-the Phillies indicated they have no interest in trading Chase Utley for Scott Williamson or Byung Yung Kim.-

 

I don't know what their plans are for Utley. He won't have a starting spot and I would rather them get another 3B if Bell has the problems again this year instead of moving Polanco to third and starting Utley. Unless they have plans on trading him for someone else or signing one of the remaining quality relievers, I might have moved him for either one of them.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Two words: Travis Chapman. If Chapman isn't MLB ready, then I see no problem playing Polanco at third. Heck, he can play short if needed.

 

As far as the trades go, I'm high on Kim, so I wouldn't mind seeing the Phillies pick him up at all.

[the pinjockey 0]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Chapman get a shot if Bell had problems. I just don't want to move Polanco from second. He seemed so comfortable there last year and seemed to slump once he was moved. No need to mess with that when Utley didn't really do anything that screamed to make a spot for him.

[Fökai 0]

I picked up ESPN Insider ($4.95 a month), so if you see any articles y'all want, let me know and I'll post them.

 

...from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution -

 

Wright re-signs as Braves eye Worrell

David O'Brien - Staff

Saturday, December 6, 2003

 

The Braves re-signed reliever Jaret Wright on Friday while continuing to work on a move to bolster their bullpen.

 

They have been in discussions with San Francisco free agent Tim Worrell, who ranked fourth in the National League with 38 saves.

 

Worrell made $2 million last season and would have to take less to stay in San Francisco, which he might do because of his fondness for the city and team.

 

With the Braves, Worrell could be a setup man and backup closer in case John Smoltz isn't completely healed from October elbow surgery.

 

Worrell, 36, posted a 2.25 ERA in a career-high 80 appearances as a setup man in 2002, and last season he had a 2.87 ERA in 76 games and helped fill in for injured closer Robb Nen.

 

Wright, 28, is expected to work in a setup role after going 1-0 with a 2.00 ERA in 11 appearances for Atlanta late last season, including 10 scoreless innings.

 

The Braves claimed him on waivers from San Diego, where he'd struggled (8.74 ERA). Wright was 20-13 in 48 starts for Cleveland during the 1997-98 seasons before a series of arm problems stalled his career.

 

"He proved to us in September that he was better than the numbers indicated in San Diego, and we think he can be a real solid contributor in a variety of roles," said Frank Wren, the Braves' assistant general manager. "Right now we're looking at him as a setup guy, but that could change in the spring."

 

The Braves aren't expected to offer arbitration to free-agent relievers Roberto Hernandez and Kent Mercker, and Darren Holmes had shoulder surgery in October.

 

MORE BASEBALL: Pudge likely to leave

 

Catcher Ivan Rodriguez appears likely to leave the World Series champion Florida Marlins after proposing a $40 million, four-year contract during negotiations with owner Jeffrey Loria. . . . Eric Dybas, who attacked an umpire at a Chicago White Sox game this year, pleaded guilty to aggravated battery and was sentenced to six months in jail and 30 months of probation.

 

...and an Insider article -

 

Let The Gamesmanship Begin

Jerry Crasnick

ESPN Insider

 

The Major League Baseball calendar pinpoints Dec. 7 as the deadline for clubs to offer salary arbitration to their current players who have filed for free agency. Catchy description, huh? Too bad "Pearl Harbor Day" was already taken.

 

Sunday's deadline won't make U.S. sports fans overlook the Eagles-Cowboys kickoff, but big-league executives are treating it like the New Hampshire primary. We're talking money, intrigue, jockeying for position -- everything but kissing babies at the Dixville Notch diner before voters go to the polls.

 

Lots of baseball officials cite Sunday's deadline as a big reason why only 22 of 210 free agents have reached agreements so far this winter. The salary arbitration deadline and Dec. 20 non-tender date are a recipe for inertia in the modern baseball era. They're central components in what agent Alan Meersand calls the "glacial mating dance."

 

The Dec. 7 deadline became part of baseball's labor agreement in 1985 as a way to give teams first crack at players who might go elsewhere through free agency. Five years later, draft-pick compensation became part of the process.

 

The mechanics work like this:

 

If a club offers salary arbitration, the player in question must accept or reject the offer by Dec. 19. If he accepts, he's under contract for the next season, with a salary to be determined by an arbiter. Or he can decline arbitration and still continue negotiating with his former club through Jan. 8.

 

If a team doesn't offer arbitration, it loses negotiating rights until May 1 and receives no draft picks as compensation if the player walks. The caliber of picks is determined by an Elias Sports Bureau formula that ranks players as Class A, B or C free agents based on their statistical profiles.

 

Billy Beane and the A's like to stockpile draft picks, but they don't like big arbitration awards.

Given the current emphasis on building from within, some teams love to stockpile draft choices. Billy Beane and the Athletics conducted their famous "Moneyball" draft largely with picks they received for losing Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon and Jason Isringhausen to other clubs through free agency.

 

Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, on the other hand, traditionally values draft picks about as much as employee dental care. And the Seattle Mariners have lost a passel of high picks in recent years for bringing in Jose Mesa, Arthur Rhodes, Aaron Sele, John Olerud, Jeff Nelson and Greg Colbrunn.

 

"It's a totally subjective thing," said Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker. "Different teams look at it different ways. Today, with the escalation in amateur signing bonuses, some teams would just as soon lose the draft choice, because they couldn't afford to pay the draft choice anyway."

 

The Phillies surrendered their first two picks in the 2003 draft in exchange for signing Jim Thome and David Bell. Rather than pursue starters Bartolo Colon or Sidney Ponson through free agency this winter, the Phillies traded for Minnesota's Eric Milton. He'll make $9 million in 2004 and has a problem left knee, but won't cost Philadelphia any draft picks.

 

There's also a domino effect: Milton's arrival means Kevin Millwood is pretty much history in Philadelphia. The Phillies can't offer Millwood arbitration now for fear he'll say yes, saddle them with a $12 million salary and blow their budget when they already have four very good starters.

 

"It's hard to offer arbitration at this point because of the risk a player will accept and get a big raise," said an American League executive. "That's why you only see a handful of guys get offered."

 

Last year the Braves didn't want to just give away Greg Maddux, so they offered him salary arbitration assuming he would decline and they'd pocket two draft picks when he left town.

 

Then Maddux threw the franchise a wrinkle. He accepted the Braves' offer and went on to sign a one-year, $14.75 million deal.

 

Atlanta GM John Schuerholz, backed into a corner, responded by trading Millwood to Philadelphia, a divisional rival, for minor-league catcher Johnny Estrada. Then he ranted about the unfairness of the system. "The economics in baseball stink," Schuerholz said last December.

 

This year Schuerholz has some more decisions to make. He'll almost certainly offer Gary Sheffield arbitration and keep the draft picks when Sheffield signs with the Yankees. He'll pass on Maddux, and probably won't offer to Javy Lopez. If Baltimore is the only team chasing Lopez, why wouldn't he remain a Brave for one more year at $10 million? Atlanta will probably watch a career 289-game winner and a 43-homer-hitting catcher simply vanish.

 

Some players and clubs have pre-arranged deals where the team offers arbitration with the assurance the player will decline. The team maintains its claim to draft picks and the player buys himself time to stay in a place he might not want to leave. He also keeps 30 teams in the mix for his services, rather than 29.

 

When Pudge Rodriguez signed his one-year, $10 million contract with Florida last winter, agent Jeff Moorad included a provision that the Marlins couldn't offer him salary arbitration. Theoretically, Rodriguez should be more attractive on the open market, because there are no draft-pick strings attached.

 

But there's a down side: Scott Boras, who now represents Rodriguez, reportedly wants a five-year, $50 million deal. If the market for 32-year-old, Gold Glove-hoarding, 10-time All-Star catchers is slow, Rodriguez can't rely on accepting arbitration as a fallback plan.

 

Risks abound in the process, for both players and teams. "This is like Russian roulette," says a National League executive.

 

It just happens to revolve around baseball, money and gamesmanship -- quintessentially American themes.

 

Jerry Crasnick has covered baseball for the Cincinnati Post, the Denver Post and Bloomberg News Service. He has joined ESPN Insider as a regular contributor and can be reached via e-mail.

[Vern Gagne 0]

IMO...Kim would best be suited has a RH setup man. Wherever he ends up.

[Guest Anglesault]

I'd love for neither the Red Sox or Yankees to make the postseason.

That would SUCK.

 

Yankees vs. Red Sox is what baseball's all about.

 

Baseball has been graced lately with a time when both teams are VERY good, making it even better. Most of the time At the very least, one team is usually good.

 

If they were to both suck that would be awful.

[the pinjockey 0]

Now that I think about it a little, I really want Kim for Utley. A 7th-9th inning trio of:

Cormier

Kim

Wagner

 

Could be great if Cormier can do anything close to what he did this year. I know I would be scared having to face Kim then Wagner, they could reasonably get you out on 6 straight Ks any night.

 

And he would provide some nice backup just in case Bud Smith, Telemaco, and Madson all fail.

 

Being arbitration eligible, he probably wouldn't command more than 4-4.5 mil and I think that is reasonable, especially considering the reward can be much higher on him than the FA relievers remaining.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'd love for neither the Red Sox or Yankees to make the postseason.

That would SUCK.

 

Yankees vs. Red Sox is what baseball's all about.

 

Baseball has been graced lately with a time when both teams are VERY good, making it even better. Most of the time At the very least, one team is usually good.

 

If they were to both suck that would be awful.

That's only because the media has an East Coast bias. I hate this damn arms race the Red Sox and Yankees are in. People in New York, and New England may care, but what about everyone else in the country.

[NYU 0]

Kaz will be next Met of import

Closing big deal for Little Matsui

 

By SAM BORDEN

and BILL MADDEN

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS

 

 

The Mets have been sitting quietly in Queens this fall, watching the crosstown team make plenty of moves. Now it appears they are ready to make some noise of their own.

Multiple baseball sources told the Daily News the Mets are on the verge of landing shortstop Kazuo Matsui, the superstar Japanese free agent. The Mets are offering Matsui (no relation to Hideki) a three-year contract worth about $7 million a season, plus incentives. An announcement could come within the next few days.

 

Matsui's agent, Arn Tellem, has been talking with several other high-payroll teams in hopes of drumming up Matsui's value, but all indications are that it's a two-horse race for the 28-year-old - with the Mets far ahead.

 

"It looks like it's just the Mets and Dodgers," said one baseball insider, "and the Dodgers can't go where the Mets can (financially)."

 

The Mets have made second base their top priority this offseason, and signing Matsui would solve their problem up the middle. Jose Reyes dazzled at shortstop in his half-season with the Mets in 2003, but Mets executives talked with Reyes about moving to second while they were on a previously scheduled trip to the Dominican Republic this week.

 

With Reyes on board, the door is open for Matsui. There was some concern about stunting Reyes' growth - John Franco said Thursday he wasn't sure how Reyes would react to a move - but Matsui is apparently too talented to pass up.

 

"I trust our baseball people," Franco said. "To move Reyes, he (Matsui) must be a hell of a shortstop."

 

Statistically, Matsui is exactly that. He hit .305 with 33 homers and 84 RBI in the Japanese Central League last season, and several scouts have raved about his range and instincts.

 

A huge celebrity in Japan, Matsui shouldn't have any trouble adapting to the media crush in New York. His hair - which has been many colors, including orange and blue - was a frequent topic in the Japanese press and he is said to enjoy his stardom.

 

As many as nine teams had preliminary interest in the switch-hitter, and Matsui told reporters two days ago that the field had been whittled to four. It's even smaller now.

 

The Angels initially were serious about Matsui, but are now concentrating on adding pop at first base (possibly Rafael Palmeiro) and the outfield. They also are closely monitoring the ongoing talks between Texas and Boston about an Alex-Rodriguez-for-Manny-Ramirez swap, because that would be a precursor to Nomar Garciaparra landing in Anaheim.

 

The Yankees were strong early contenders, and fully believed they could have brought a second Matsui to the Bronx - even though he would have had to switch to second base in deference to Derek Jeter.

 

But with a big-money signing of Gary Sheffield set to be announced soon, an expensive bullpen overhaul nearly complete and the expected signings of Andy Pettitte and Javier Vazquez (to an extension), the Yanks feel they are almost tapped out. Even in George Steinbrenner's world, there's just no logic to investing $8 million more in a second baseman when the Bombers can leave Alfonso Soriano there.

 

As for the Mariners, payroll constraints kept them from truly pursuing "Little Matsui," but it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway. Reports indicated that Matsui wasn't interested in playing in the shadow of Ichiro, and the Mariners are now looking at free agent shortstop Miguel Tejada, to whom they offered a three-year contract yesterday.

 

The Mets, on the other hand, are focused squarely on Matsui. They made a run at Luis Castillo, but once he opted to return to the Marlins, the Mets turned their attentions to the spiky-haired shortstop from the Seibu Lions.

Credit: NY Daily News

---------------------------------------------

 

I have no complaints with this signing. Tejada would have been nice, but there's the possibility that, at this point, Tejada has peaked and his stats and defense will start to decrease. The Mets needed another infield player and Matsui is supposed to have good power and great fielding. There's always the question of whether or not the Japanese player can successfully adapt to the American style of baseball, but he should be fine......and of course, it's better than having Super Joe McEwing at second base, like he was at the end of the 2003 season.

 

If this signing happens, the hole in the Infield will have been plugged up. Now all the Mets need is another power outfielder, a reliable starting pitcher (or two), and a GOOD CLOSER. No more of that Benitez or Franco shit. I would like to have a closer I can count on.

[Guest Choken One]

I'd love for neither the Red Sox or Yankees to make the postseason.

That would SUCK.

 

Yankees vs. Red Sox is what baseball's all about.

 

Baseball has been graced lately with a time when both teams are VERY good, making it even better. Most of the time At the very least, one team is usually good.

 

If they were to both suck that would be awful.

That's only because the media has an East Coast bias. I hate this damn arms race the Red Sox and Yankees are in. People in New York, and New England may care, but what about everyone else in the country.

I don't live on the east coast but I perfer Yankees/Sox over A's/Mariners anyday of the week.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

1) Yanks/Sox have a storied rivalry and there's no denying that. This is the main reason behind this "East Coast" bias which is stupid for you to even call it that since the only thing East Coast wise the media care about is Boston/Yanks. If the media was truly East Coast biased they'd also be reporting a lot on Florida, the Mets, Baltimore and Toronto.

 

2) As far as I've seen, the Sox/Yanks and some of the other East Coast teams are the only ones who have done anything major so far and if you're a part of the media, you want to go after the big stories.

[Bored 0]

Some rivalry...one team gets bitched slapped for the last 80+ years and that's a rivaly? Meh.

 

There a lot of us fans of the other 28 teams who don't care about either team and are already sick of those two comparing dick size all offseason.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Amen.

[Vern Gagne 0]

1) Yanks/Sox have a storied rivalry and there's no denying that. This is the main reason behind this "East Coast" bias which is stupid for you to even call it that since the only thing East Coast wise the media care about is Boston/Yanks. If the media was truly East Coast biased they'd also be reporting a lot on Florida, the Mets, Baltimore and Toronto.

 

2) As far as I've seen, the Sox/Yanks and some of the other East Coast teams are the only ones who have done anything major so far and if you're a part of the media, you want to go after the big stories.

No denying the Red Sox, and Yankees have been the most active teams. But, do you really think the media which for the most part is in on the East Coast, would have same interest if a team in the midwest, or west coast was doing the same thing Boston and New York where doing?

 

Honestly, I don't think it's some sort of conspiracy, you just tend to have more of an interest in the teams around you're area. So ESPN, covering the Red Sox/ Yankees isn't suprising. I'm just tired of it personally.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

1) Yanks/Sox have a storied rivalry and there's no denying that. This is the main reason behind this "East Coast" bias which is stupid for you to even call it that since the only thing East Coast wise the media care about is Boston/Yanks. If the media was truly East Coast biased they'd also be reporting a lot on Florida, the Mets, Baltimore and Toronto.

 

2) As far as I've seen, the Sox/Yanks and some of the other East Coast teams are the only ones who have done anything major so far and if you're a part of the media, you want to go after the big stories.

No denying the Red Sox, and Yankees have been the most active teams. But, do you really think the media which for the most part is in on the East Coast, would have same interest if a team in the midwest, or west coast was doing the same thing Boston and New York where doing?

 

Honestly, I don't think it's some sort of conspiracy, you just tend to have more of an interest in the teams around you're area. So ESPN, covering the Red Sox/ Yankees isn't suprising. I'm just tired of it personally.

I think the media would focus on it quite a bit. Consider the magnitude of the moves made as well(Schilling, Sheffield, new manager in Francona) so it's not just because it's the Yanks/Sox either as they are pretty big in magnitude. When the Astros traded for Randy Johnson in 99(That right?) it was a fairly big deal on ESPN and most news areas. Same went for when A-Rod signed the $252 Mil contract with Texas.

 

I was looking and found this kind of interesting actually.

 

The Yankees have appeared in 36 World Series(Under the Yankee name) and have gone 26-10 for a winning % of 72. The Red Sox have only gone to 8 World Series under that name but have gone 4-4 for a % of 50. Ironically, the last time the Sox won the World Series was over the Cubbies in 1918.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

hey Mets fans.. be optimistic.. here are Scott Kazmir's numbers after 11 seasons (2003-2013)

 

ERA: 2.78 (third best in Mets history, behind Seaver and Orosco)

Win/Loss record: 166-82 (second most wins, behind Seaver)

Winning percentage: .669 (best w/ the Mets)

Games: 371 (fifth best, behind Franco, Seaver, Koosman and Orosco)

Innings: 2262 1/3 (third best, behind Seaver and Koosman)

Strikeouts: 2545 (best w/ the Mets)

Games Stated: 351 (second, behind Seaver)

Walks: 927 (most)

Hits allowed: 1629 (fourth most, behind Seaver, Koosman and Gooden)

Runs/Earned Runs: 744/699 (fourth, behind the three mentioned)

 

On Baseball Mogul 2004, Kazmir is historical, as he has struck out 200 or more batters in all 11 of his seasons.

 

Kazmir's walks and strikeouts. These aren't bad, right?

 

2013: 77/213

2012: 84/215

2011: 90/230

2010: 98/228

2009: 86/239

2008: 91/258

2007: 63/231

2006: 72/239

2005: 85/238

2004: 91/231

2003: 90/223

 

But.. for all good hopes. Remember that I am not running the Mets. My Mets restoration plan involved dealing off all the old players.

 

Out:

- Mike Stanton (to Colorado, for Cory Vance)

- Dave Weathers (to Oakland, for Chad Bradford)

- John Franco (to San Diego, for Orosco, who I released into retirement)

- Graeme Lloyd (to Houston, for Vizcaino)

- Burnitz, McEwing and Vance Wilson (to Colorado, for Greg Norton)

- Shinjo (to KC for Ordaz and Alexis Gomez)

- Leiter and Astacio (to St. Louis for Esteban Yan)

- Rey Sanchez (to Detroit for Steve Avery and Craig Monroe)

- Esteban Yan (to Texas for Teixeria)

- Mo Vaughn, Esix Snead and two million dollars (to Yankees for Jason Anderson)

 

All those trades were made before the year.

 

Then.. I moved some more!

 

Norton goes to San Diego for Dave Hansen (Norton's time in New York: 4 weeks)

 

David Wright and Jason Anderson go to Toronto for Werth and Shannon Stewart. Then I traded Stewart for Ben Grieve 3 days later.

 

Then I traded Jay Bell and David Wright to the Indians for Michael Aubrey.

 

I traded Cliff Floyd to the Padres for Kory DeHaan

 

And Tony Clark went to the Giants for Joe Nathan

 

Strickland went to the Twins for LeCroy

 

Steve Traschel went to the Giants for Boof Bonser (Bonser's won 158 games and he has 2273 strikeouts as a Met)

 

Benitez goes to the Cubs for Francis Beltran, Luke Haggerty and Blair Barbier

 

On July 30th, I traded Glavine to the White Sox for Kelly Wunsch. Tom was only 4-10 with a 3.97 ERA as a Met.

 

So.. let it be established that I am a psychotic GM. But my Mets went from 63-99 in 2003 to 98-64 in 2006 and 118-44 in 2008.

 

So there.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

My Mets records do ignore Ryan Hannaman. I got him from the Giants for Jaime Cerda and Ryan Wing.

 

Hannaman is 111-32 as a Met and 113-33 career, 1.92 ERA as a Met, 2.03 career, 1516 strikeouts/624 walks, 1594 strikeouts/660 walks career.

 

I should note that Hannaman pitched in 31 games with 1 start as a Giant.

 

He started his career as a Met with 3 scoreless innings, giving up a run with one out in his fourth inning, then he racked up 40.2 consecutive scoreless innings. With just one earned run in 44 innings and an ERA of 0.20, his streak ended, but he went on to be 24-4, with a 1.30 ERA. He was the MVP and Cy Young award winner that year.

 

And from 2007 to 2013, the Mets w/ Hannaman have gone to the playoffs in every season.

Edited December 7, 2003 by Rob E Dangerously

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

- Esteban Yan (to Texas for Teixeria)

 

I think a real GM would have a tough time making this trade fly.

 

I picked up ESPN Insider ($4.95 a month), so if you see any articles y'all want, let me know and I'll post them.

 

That that it concerns me, but be aware that there are some copyright issues involved with reposting the insider articles.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

- Esteban Yan (to Texas for Teixeria)

 

I think a real GM would have a tough time making this trade fly.

 

I picked up ESPN Insider ($4.95 a month), so if you see any articles y'all want, let me know and I'll post them.

 

That that it concerns me, but be aware that there are some copyright issues involved with reposting the insider articles.

Yan had alot of upside.

[Guest Anglesault]

Some rivalry...one team gets bitched slapped for the last 80+ years and that's a rivaly? Meh.

That's not really a fair way of describing it.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Yeah, It's more like the chaser(Boston) going after the champion(New York) only to get repeatedly beaten in some form(*cough*Aaron Fucking Boone*cough*).

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Its an old fashioned title chase program. You really can't go wrong.

[Guest Anglesault]

In a sense he's right in the fact that most of the feud has been built on the Red Sox inabilty to beat the Yankees.

 

But it kind of goes further than that. The Yankees are more or less a dark cloud hanging over the Red Sox that symbolizes their failures over the last 85 years or so. If you believe in the Curse, it's the Yankees fault that the Red Sox are even in this mess.

 

Many people firmly believe (myself included) that if the Red Sox ever want to completely rid themselves of this "curse" they're going to have to go through the Yankees in some way or form to do it. If they can win the world series while going through the Yankees along the way, they would haveb basically stuck it to Babe Ruth and killed the curse.

 

Obviously, The yankees want to stop that.

[Cartman 0]

In a sense he's right in the fact that most of the feud has been built on the Red Sox inabilty to beat the Yankees.

 

But it kind of goes further than that. The Yankees are more or less a dark cloud hanging over the Red Sox that symbolizes their failures over the last 85 years or so. If you believe in the Curse, it's the Yankees fault that the Red Sox are even in this mess.

 

Many people firmly believe (myself included) that if the Red Sox ever want to completely rid themselves of this "curse" they're going to have to go through the Yankees in some way or form to do it. If they can win the world series while going through the Yankees along the way, they would haveb basically stuck it to Babe Ruth and killed the curse.

 

Obviously, The yankees want to stop that.

...and THAT boys and girls is the history of Baseball.

[Bored 0]

In a sense he's right in the fact that most of the feud has been built on the Red Sox inabilty to beat the Yankees.

 

But it kind of goes further than that. The Yankees are more or less a dark cloud hanging over the Red Sox that symbolizes their failures over the last 85 years or so. If you believe in the Curse, it's the Yankees fault that the Red Sox are even in this mess.

 

Many people firmly believe (myself included) that if the Red Sox ever want to completely rid themselves of this "curse" they're going to have to go through the Yankees in some way or form to do it. If they can win the world series while going through the Yankees along the way, they would haveb basically stuck it to Babe Ruth and killed the curse.

 

Obviously, The yankees want to stop that.

...and THAT boys and girls is the history of Baseball.

Uhhh not quite...you know there is all those other teams and their players that have played. I mean I know they don't matter to Yankee and Red Sox fans. Why don't you guys just play each other 162 times year and just have one big circle jerk?

[Guest Anglesault]

In a sense he's right in the fact that most of the feud has been built on the Red Sox inabilty to beat the Yankees.

 

But it kind of goes further than that. The Yankees are more or less a dark cloud hanging over the Red Sox that symbolizes their failures over the last 85 years or so. If you believe in the Curse, it's the Yankees fault that the Red Sox are even in this mess.

 

Many people firmly believe (myself included) that if the Red Sox ever want to completely rid themselves of this "curse" they're going to have to go through the Yankees in some way or form to do it. If they can win the world series while going through the Yankees along the way, they would haveb basically stuck it to Babe Ruth and killed the curse.

 

Obviously, The yankees want to stop that.

...and THAT boys and girls is the history of Baseball.

Uhhh not quite...you know there is all those other teams and their players that have played.

And when they do something on the level of Yankees vs. Red Sox, they can be mentioned as well.

 

Why don't you guys just play each other 162 times year

 

That would ROCK.