Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted January 15, 2004 The 777 OPS is compared to a league average of 757. Besides, the last few center fielders the Mets have played were Jeff Duncan, Timo Perez, Jay Payton, and Brian McRae. Not exactly all stars. As for the strikeouts, they're overrated. Another thing about Cameron. Check out his home/road splits. In four years at SafeCo, Cameron hit 30 home runs at home, and 57 on the road. When you are slightly above the average mark for OPS, you shouldn't be making that kind of money. Anyways, strikeouts aren't overrated. If you put the ball in play, many things can happen. Coming from a Reds fan, I know EVERYTHING about strikeouts and how it can effect a team and the game, so don't go there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 ESPN tossed out the O's projected line-up and it looks like it should be pretty fun to watch. Brian Roberts/Jerry Hairston, 2B Melvin Mora, 3B Miguel Tejada, SS Rafael Palmeiro, 1B Javy Lopez, C Jay Gibbons, RF B.J. Surhoff, DH Luis Matos, CF Larry Bigbie, LF Sidney Ponson, RHP Rodrigo Lopez, RHP Kurt Ainsworth, RHP Eric DuBose, LHP Matt Riley, LHP/Omar Daal, LHP It's a solid core of veterans and young players mixed nicely and if Riley/Ainsworth come up like the scouts believe they can, it could be very interesting in the AL East. The way I see it: Jerry Hairston, 2B (Roberts will get traded) Melvin Mora, 3B Miguel Tejada, SS Rafael Palmeiro, 1B Javy Lopez, C Jay Gibbons, RF Jack Cust, DH (Surhoff only has a minor league deal at this moment) Luis Matos, CF Larry Bigbie, LF Sidney Ponson, RHP Rodrigo Lopez, RHP Kurt Ainsworth, RHP Eric DuBose, LHP Matt Riley, LHP (Daal will go to the bullpen, he's a lousy starter) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Can you give me some info on Riley? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 The 777 OPS is compared to a league average of 757. Besides, the last few center fielders the Mets have played were Jeff Duncan, Timo Perez, Jay Payton, and Brian McRae. Not exactly all stars. As for the strikeouts, they're overrated. Another thing about Cameron. Check out his home/road splits. In four years at SafeCo, Cameron hit 30 home runs at home, and 57 on the road. When you are slightly above the average mark for OPS, you shouldn't be making that kind of money. Anyways, strikeouts aren't overrated. If you put the ball in play, many things can happen. Coming from a Reds fan, I know EVERYTHING about strikeouts and how it can effect a team and the game, so don't go there. I'll go there....here's the Top 20 all-time strikeout leaders: 1. Reggie Jackson 2597 2. Andres Galarraga 2000 3. Sammy Sosa 1977 4. Jose Canseco 1942 5. Willie Stargell 1936 6. Mike Schmidt 1883 7. Tony Perez 1867 8. Fred McGriff 1863 9. Dave Kingman 1816 10. Bobby Bonds 1757 11. Dale Murphy 1748 12. Lou Brock 1730 13. Mickey Mantle 1710 14. Harmon Killebrew 1699 15. Chili Davis 1698 16. Dwight Evans 1697 17. Rickey Henderson 1694 18. Dave Winfield 1686 19. Gary Gaetti 1602 20. Mark McGwire 1596 Now Dave Kingman aside...that's a pretty damn good list of players. Eight of them are in the HOF and three others are likely first ballot locks. I know your point but just because a guy strikeouts a lot doesn't mean they aren't any good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 And it's not like he's Jose Hernandez for goodness sake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Info On Matt Riley Drafted in the 3rd round of the 97 draft. I saw him play A Ball (Delmarva Shorebirds) back in 1998 and he looked like he had good stuff but he was erratic a lot of the time. He made 2 starts last year in Sept, going 1-0. His 2 starts were a vast improvement over his previous stint with the Os in 1999 (naturally). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treble 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 The Blue Jays signed Ted Lilly to a 2-year contract for $5 million ($1.9 million in 2004 and $3.1 million in 2005). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Info On Matt Riley Drafted in the 3rd round of the 97 draft. I saw him play A Ball (Delmarva Shorebirds) back in 1998 and he looked like he had good stuff but he was erratic a lot of the time. He made 2 starts last year in Sept, going 1-0. His 2 starts were a vast improvement over his previous stint with the Os in 1999 (naturally). Yeah, he got wild at that Shorebirds game I saw him pitch. But this was before his surgery I think so he's a much different pitcher now. He's got great stuff and looked very good last season. I kind of think of him as having the potential to be a Tom Glavine but he could easily go Rick Ankiel on the O's. But I think he'll be a easy #2 starter in a year or two. Him and Ainsworth are loaded with potential and I think I rated Ainsworth slightly higher last season but I felt Riley had progressed so well that I could seem him pressing for the top three spot this season. If Lopez, who was suffering badly with injuries and couldn't get into sync last season, and the two prospect come through then the O's could easily have a pitching staff somewhat close to the Cubs but behind it. It's that much potential sitting there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Now Dave Kingman aside...that's a pretty damn good list of players. Eight of them are in the HOF and three others are likely first ballot locks. I know your point but just because a guy strikeouts a lot doesn't mean they aren't any good. I would certainly hope so. If a guy's going to strike out enough to put himself on this list, he HAS to be able to do something at the plate, or he never would've lasted long enough to get close to the all-time list in the first place. It's like Nolan Ryan being the all-time walk leader. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted January 15, 2004 The 777 OPS is compared to a league average of 757. Besides, the last few center fielders the Mets have played were Jeff Duncan, Timo Perez, Jay Payton, and Brian McRae. Not exactly all stars. As for the strikeouts, they're overrated. Another thing about Cameron. Check out his home/road splits. In four years at SafeCo, Cameron hit 30 home runs at home, and 57 on the road. When you are slightly above the average mark for OPS, you shouldn't be making that kind of money. Anyways, strikeouts aren't overrated. If you put the ball in play, many things can happen. Coming from a Reds fan, I know EVERYTHING about strikeouts and how it can effect a team and the game, so don't go there. I'll go there....here's the Top 20 all-time strikeout leaders: 1. Reggie Jackson 2597 2. Andres Galarraga 2000 3. Sammy Sosa 1977 4. Jose Canseco 1942 5. Willie Stargell 1936 6. Mike Schmidt 1883 7. Tony Perez 1867 8. Fred McGriff 1863 9. Dave Kingman 1816 10. Bobby Bonds 1757 11. Dale Murphy 1748 12. Lou Brock 1730 13. Mickey Mantle 1710 14. Harmon Killebrew 1699 15. Chili Davis 1698 16. Dwight Evans 1697 17. Rickey Henderson 1694 18. Dave Winfield 1686 19. Gary Gaetti 1602 20. Mark McGwire 1596 Now Dave Kingman aside...that's a pretty damn good list of players. Eight of them are in the HOF and three others are likely first ballot locks. I know your point but just because a guy strikeouts a lot doesn't mean they aren't any good. So you're comparing Mike Cameron to those guys? Haha, NO. Strikeouts aren't overrated. Sure, if you can put up numbers like Sammy Sosa does, those strikeouts will be overlooked, but when you put up numbers like Mike Cameron does, you don't get that treatment. Example: 50 HR, .280 AVG, 130 RBI, .993-1.000 OPS, and ... 150 strikeouts. Those other numbers over shadow the strikeouts. 18 HR, .250 AVG, 88 RBI, .600-777 OPS, and ... 150 strikeouts. The strikeouts don't get overshadowed, since the other numbers are rather mediocre. So bringing up that list means nothing. Thanks for the info on Riley, Marvin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 1. Strikeouts. Balls in play often lead to bad things, such as double plays. There's really no big difference between an out via strikeout, and an out via another method. 2. The O's rotation. Riley struck out 150 batters in 142 2/3 innings last season in the minors, while walking just 51. Anyone with those kind of numbers projects well for the majors. Also keep an eye on John Stephens. 3. While Karim Garcia might be a minor signing, do the Mets really have a better RFer at the moment? He hits well against righties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Strikeouts aren't overrated. Sure, if you can put up numbers like Sammy Sosa does, those strikeouts will be overlooked, but when you put up numbers like Mike Cameron does, you don't get that treatment. Example: 50 HR, .280 AVG, 130 RBI, .993-1.000 OPS, and ... 150 strikeouts. Those other numbers over shadow the strikeouts. 18 HR, .250 AVG, 88 RBI, .600-777 OPS, and ... 150 strikeouts. The strikeouts don't get overshadowed, since the other numbers are rather mediocre. So bringing up that list means nothing. Here's what you're missing. What separates a strikeout from any other kind of out? Sometimes a runner advances. That's called a sacrifice. The league leader in sac flies had 12 last season, so that's really a negligible difference. Cameron had a .344 OBP last season, meaning he made outs about 65% of the time. That they were strikeouts makes him no different than other players who make outs at that rate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 So you're comparing Mike Cameron to those guys? Haha, NO. Uh no I wasn't, I was addressing your comment about strikeouts. I thought about adding the note that "no I'm not saying Mike Cameron is a Hall of Famer" but thought you'd figure that out on your own. How wrong I was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted January 15, 2004 I didn't say all outs besides a strikeout is good, I just said strikeouts aren't overrated. It's an unproductive out, when in the variables of the game, if you put the ball in play, theres a better than of reaching base, or making something happen. I'm sure Bill Buckner will agree with me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 I didn't say all outs besides a strikeout is good, I just said strikeouts aren't overrated. It's an unproductive out, when in the variables of the game, if you put the ball in play, theres a better than of reaching base, or making something happen. I'm sure Bill Buckner will agree with me. Well, strikeouts are unproductive, but like I said, the leaders in sac hits only have around 10-20 a year (and alot of those are because they can't hit in the first place). Paul Konerko, meanwhile, led the majors with 28 double plays. He didn't strike out. Were his outs productive? No, because he created two outs, instead of one. There's just as much bad that can happen on a ball in play as there is good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted January 15, 2004 But again, the good on putting the ball in play out does the good of a strikeout. And it's not all about just getting a runner over, anything can happen, like I said - the variables of the game come into play.. someone boots the ball, wild throw, it hits a rock and bounces into center, theres more good to putting the ball into play than there is bad, that's all I'm saying. I guess we differ in opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Too lazy to look back but it says Orioles signed Ponson to a 3 year deal on my ESPN scrollbar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2004 I just saw a scary bit of info on Rodrigo Lopez. During the offseason he pitches in the Mexican League (I really don't know why the Os haven't stopped him from doing so since it adds wear to his arm). His stint in the Mexican League this year resulted in: 4.69 ERA, 31K/22BB and a .299 BAA in only 40 innings. I hope that is just some sort of fluke or something, because it doesn't look good, even if its in the Mexican League (specifically, if nothing else, the high number of walks in 40 innings). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted January 15, 2004 He's probably close to dead arm, him and Vincente Padilla both. I mean both pitchers have pitched non-stop for 3-4 years straight now...ligments aren't meant to take that kind of abuse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted January 15, 2004 Some Detroit news outlet is saying I-Rod is headed to the Tigers. That would be some funny shit if due to his greed he ended up there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Here's the list of players of filed for salary arbitration today. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1709634 American League ANAHEIM (3): David Eckstein, ss; Jarrod Washburn, lhp; Ben Weber, rhp. BALTIMORE (5): Jay Gibbons, of; Jerry Hairston Jr., 2b; Luis Matos, of; Melvin Mora, of-inf; B.J. Ryan, lhp. BOSTON (4): Byung-Hyun Kim, rhp; Trot Nixon, of; David Ortiz, 1b-dh; Scott Williamson, rhp. CHICAGO (0) CLEVELAND (1): Scott Stewart, lhp. DETROIT (0) KANSAS CITY (2): Carlos Beltran, of; Darrell May, lhp. MINNESOTA (3): Doug Mientkiewicz, 1b; J.C. Romero, lhp; Johan Santana, lhp. NEW YORK (2): Alfonso Soriano, 2b; Gabe White, lhp. OAKLAND (1): Chad Bradford, rhp. SEATTLE (2): Gil Meche, rhp; Joel Pineiro, rhp. TAMPA BAY (2): Jeremi Gonzalez, rhp; Damian Rolls, inf-of. TEXAS (1): Francisco Cordero, rhp. TORONTO (2): Roy Halladay, rhp; Justin Speier, rhp. National League ARIZONA (1): Shea Hillenbrand, 3b. ATLANTA (3): Will Cunnane rhp; J.D. Drew, of; Rafael Furcal, ss. CHICAGO (3): Kyle Farnsworth, rhp; Derrek Lee 1b; Kerry Wood, rhp. CINCINNATI (2): Chris Reitsma, rhp; John Riedling, rhp. COLORADO (1): Shawn Chacon, rhp. FLORIDA (2): Carl Pavano, rhp; Brad Penny, rhp. HOUSTON (3): Octavio Dotel, rhp; Wade Miller, rhp; Roy Oswalt, rhp. LOS ANGELES (5): Adrian Beltre, 3b; Jolbert Cabrera, inf-of; Eric Gagne, rhp; Guillermo Mota, rhp; Odalis Perez, lhp. MILWAUKEE (2): Dan Kolb, rhp; Ben Sheets, rhp. MONTREAL (4): Tony Armas Jr., rhp; Rocky Biddle, rhp; Nick Johnson, 1b; Tomo Ohka, rhp. NEW YORK (0) PHILADELPHIA (4): Kevin Millwood, rhp; Vicente Padilla, rhp; Placido Polanco, inf; x-Jimmy Rollins, ss. PITTSBURGH (3): Kip Wells, rhp; Craig Wilson, inf-of; Jack Wilson, ss. ST. LOUIS (1): Albert Pujols, of-1b. SAN DIEGO (0) SAN FRANCISCO (3): Jim Brower, rhp; Pedro Feliz, inf-of; A.J. Pierzynski, c. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Byung-Hyung Kim is suppose to be getting a 2 year $10mill deal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob E Dangerously 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Albert Pujols, time to go to the bank! oh yeah.. when it comes to GDPs.. I think it's too vague. They don't show how many of those double plays ended innings and how many of them were just the first two outs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geniusMoment 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Cameron's 1999 numbers with Cincy tell an interesting story. He was damn good for the first couple of months. Pitchers began throwing him high fast balls, and guess what, he sucked the rest of the year. So his overall numbers were good, but they did not tell the whole story. He started out as the leadoff hitter and played well. By the end of the year he was the 8th place hitter and being booed and criticized by the whole city, call it the Reggie Sanders effect. Even Marty would make sarcastic remarks about how he could never put the bat on the ball. Also, whoever said strikeouts are not that big of a deal has never played the game at a high level. I can tell you this much: every coach I have ever had, including summer camps with major league coachs, describe strike outs as the worse case scenerio. By putting the ball in play so many good things can happen, only one bad thing could occur, a double play. Also, Cameron is so god damn fast that he would not hit into that many double plays, especially on the grass at Shea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Yep ^^. According to WQAM; Tigers signed Pudge 1 year, $10 million. No confirmed reports yet. Funny what his greedy ass gets him. A spot on the worst team in baseball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 According to WQAM; Tigers signed Pudge 1 year, $10 million. No confirmed reports yet. Funny what his greedy ass gets him. A spot on the worst team in baseball. ouch. From first to worst. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 And the same deal he had last year. Except there will be no winning or world title. He should have just stayed in Florida for 8 million a year, he was getting a multi-year deal. And in more good news for me, and bad news for all you Philly fans, ESPN.com is reporting that AJ Burnett is recovering way ahead of schedule and will be ready to start throwing normal for...SPRING TRAINING. Back in the rotation perhaps for opening day. You know that Philadelphia sports teams are doomed to never win anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Bud Selig and company are getting out while they are behind...the Brewers are up for sale. Posted: Jan. 16, 2004 The Milwaukee Brewers are for sale. Wendy Selig-Prieb, chairman of the team's board of directors, made the announcement at an afternoon news conference, saying the decision was in the best interest of baseball in Milwaukee. "The unrelenting desire of our ownership group to bring baseball back to our community some 35 years ago has been surpassed only by their unwavering commitment to preserve major league baseball in our community," said said. "While the ownership may be changing Brewers baseball will remain an important part of the fabric of our community." The board of directors has retained Allen & Company, a New York investment banking firm that has expertise in the sales of professional sports franchises, to pursue a deal. Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig holds the largest share of the Brewers, believed to be between 26% and 30% of the team. According to a source familiar with team valuations, the Brewers franchise is valued between $180 million and $200 million. Selig has owned a share of the Brewers since 1970, when an organization led by Selig and Edmund Fitzgerald acquired the faltering Seattle Pilots and moved them to Milwaukee. Selig's initial investment was $300,000. Selig has made no comment on his Brewers holdings in many months. His shares are held in a voting trust that is controlled by two of his friends, John Canning and Mitchell Fromstein. Selig declined to talk to a reporter Friday afternoon in Arizona. Selig was in Arizona this week for the winter meeting of baseball owners. U.S. Senator Herb Kohl (D-Wis.) retained Allen & Company last year to handle his planned sale of the Milwaukee Bucks. Kohl later changed his mind and took the team off the market. Allen also is handling the still pending sale of the Los Angeles Dodgers. The announcement from the Brewers comes after a tumultuous off-season that included the departure of Ulice Payne Jr., the team's former president and CEO, and fan anger over what many felt was a lack of commitment by the Brewers to field a competitive team. Payne had raised concerns publicly about the team's future direction after he and the board signed off on budget cuts that would drop the Brewers' payroll to as low as $30 million. Payne later reached a severance agreement with the franchise. Complete coverage of this story will appear online later today and in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel in the morning . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2004 Why would Derrek Lee file for arbitration with the Cubs? Wasn't he just signed by them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geniusMoment 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2004 I hope that Brewers scenerio repeats itself here in Cincy. No more Linder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
