The One and Only NWA TNA 11/19/03 thread...

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

, to dance (very badly) with 3 Count?

I thought that was brilliant

[Guest MikeSC]

Buy Rate of Russo's "Baby", WM 15 - 2.32

 

Buy Rate of Royal Rumble 2003??????

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Benoit - Angle to bits, but Russo's PPV's honestly seem to be.... of i dunno............purchased by more people

 

HAH

Let's actually compare apples and apples here, 'K?

 

Royal Rumble 1999 --- 1.88 (Gate: $630,050)

Royal Rumble 2000 --- 1.58 (Gate: $1,142,540)

 

St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 --- 1.21 (Gate: $316,618)

No Way Out 2000 --- 1.21 (Gate: $451,625)

 

WrestleMania XV --- 2.32 (Gate: $1,438,050)

WM 2K --- 2.08 (Gate: $1,347,800)

 

Backlash 1999 --- 1.06 (Gate: $293,873)

Backlash 2000 --- 1.62 (Gate: $540,820)

 

Over the Edge 1999 --- 1.1 (Gate: $453,893)

Judgment Day 2000 --- 1.05 (Gate: $596,050)

 

King of the Ring 1999 --- 1.13 (Gate: $574,200)

King of the Ring 2000 --- 1.19 (Gate: $865,788)

 

Fully Loaded 1999 --- .94 (Gate: $547,380)

Fully Loaded 2000 --- 1.04 (Gate: $788,410)

 

SummerSlam 1999 --- 1.61 (Gate: $557,129)

SummerSlam 2000 --- 1.4 (Gate: $1,151,940)

 

Unforgiven 1999 --- .85 (Gate: $505,477)

Unforgiven 2000 --- 1.5 (Gate: $822,400)

 

So, w/out Russo, the WWF did better buyrates in 2000 on 4 shows (including a HUGE improvement on Unforgiven Backlash) and did worse on 4 shows --- but they made more money on all but one. Odd.

-=Mike

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

, to dance (very badly) with 3 Count?

I thought that was brilliant

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the UFC fanbase, who do not want to watch Tank do that shit.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I didnt like Tank in UFC, why would I want him on WCW TV?

 

Well, I did like Tank for a few moments.....like when that Russian guy beat him senseless and won in 30 seconds. Oleg Tactorov or something....or maybe I'm thinking of another fight where Tank got his ass handed to him by someone really good.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Oh come on. UFC Fighters (with one exception) were never gonna getover. Just look at the Brawl For All (which had nothing to do with Russo, btw), which was an attempt to cash in on the popularity of UFC

Edited November 22, 2003 by Dave O'Neill, Journalist

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Well, I'm debating with someone who thought that Tank Abbott: WCW World Champion would have brought in the UFC fanbase. Did you not read that?

 

So why isn't the Pro-Russo camp arguing amongst themselves over that?

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

My point never had anything to do with UFC, or its fanbase, or anything like that. My point was, at least, Abbot was someone new for the title

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh come on. UFC Fighters (with one exception) were never gonna getover. Just look at the Brawl For All, which was an attempt to cash in on the popularity of UFC

Then why would he be anything resembling a good choice to be World Champ?

 

Heck, Vincent couldn't get over, either --- give HIM the World Title.

-=Mike

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Oh come on. UFC Fighters (with one exception) were never gonna getover. Just look at the Brawl For All (which had nothing to do with Russo, btw), which was an attempt to cash in on the popularity of UFC

It was SUPPOSE to make Dr. Death Steve Williams look bad ass and feud with Austin after Summerslam....but Bart Gunn interupted that by causing Williams to injure himself on a knockdown in that match (which soon lead to a KO).

 

 

Hence why Bart Gunn dissapeared a week after it and made one or two appearences on RAW after that.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Buy Rate of Russo's "Baby", WM 15 - 2.32

 

Buy Rate of Royal Rumble 2003??????

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Benoit - Angle to bits, but Russo's PPV's honestly seem to be.... of i dunno............purchased by more people

 

HAH

Let's actually compare apples and apples here, 'K?

 

Royal Rumble 1999 --- 1.88 (Gate: $630,050)

Royal Rumble 2000 --- 1.58 (Gate: $1,142,540)

 

St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 --- 1.21 (Gate: $316,618)

No Way Out 2000 --- 1.21 (Gate: $451,625)

 

WrestleMania XV --- 2.32 (Gate: $1,438,050)

WM 2K --- 2.08 (Gate: $1,347,800)

 

Backlash 1999 --- 1.06 (Gate: $293,873)

Backlash 2000 --- 1.62 (Gate: $540,820)

 

Over the Edge 1999 --- 1.1 (Gate: $453,893)

Judgment Day 2000 --- 1.05 (Gate: $596,050)

 

King of the Ring 1999 --- 1.13 (Gate: $574,200)

King of the Ring 2000 --- 1.19 (Gate: $865,788)

 

Fully Loaded 1999 --- .94 (Gate: $547,380)

Fully Loaded 2000 --- 1.04 (Gate: $788,410)

 

SummerSlam 1999 --- 1.61 (Gate: $557,129)

SummerSlam 2000 --- 1.4 (Gate: $1,151,940)

 

Unforgiven 1999 --- .85 (Gate: $505,477)

Unforgiven 2000 --- 1.5 (Gate: $822,400)

 

So, w/out Russo, the WWF did better buyrates in 2000 on 4 shows (including a HUGE improvement on Unforgiven Backlash) and did worse on 4 shows --- but they made more money on all but one. Odd.

-=Mike

We don't always see eye to eye, but I'm with you here. It's ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY. That's the bottom line, and that's the only thing that matters. It's laughable for people to say Russo created Rock, Austin, HHH, Foley, etc.

 

1. Austin 3:16 was created by an impromptu quote from Austin after he won the King of Ring. Russo had nothing to do with that.

 

2. HHH really wasn't a consistent DRAWING main eventer until 2000, when he had made himself into an awesome heel.

 

3. Foley became God to the general public (the IWC already liked him) when he flew off that cage, whether you like it or not. Russo had nothing to do with that.

 

4. Russo might have given The Rock some lines, but is clear that the Rock has the natural charisma and ability that no other professional wrestler has ever had. Russo has nothing to do with that.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

1. Austin 3:16 was created by an impromptu quote from Austin after he won the King of Ring. Russo had nothing to do with that.

*****But Russo did put Austin in solid fueds after he won the belt. Those feuds resulted in Austin becoming a known entity in the public circle (Rolling Stone , Newsweek articles). Russo also was the head writer at the time of Mr. McMhon-Austin feud, the biggest money making feud ever.

 

2. HHH really wasn't a consistent DRAWING main eventer until 2000, when he had made himself into an awesome heel.

*****I believe Russo gave the belt to Trips first. Russo also made him the leader of DX and as a result a solid push as a main player on the shows. Before Trips was really just seen as a lackey to HBK and a midcarder. True Trips truly became a mega superstar after Russo left, but Russo pushed him into that direction first, as a main event guy.

 

3. Foley became God to the general public (the IWC already liked him) when he flew off that cage, whether you like it or not. Russo had nothing to do with that.

*****Again Russo was booking the shows then (when Foley got thrown off the cage). Personally I don't think Foley became God until Russo gave him a few runs with the belt and a feud with the Rock. The Rock-Foley feud in my mind was the best booked N. American feud in the past 7 years.

 

4. Russo might have given The Rock some lines, but is clear that the Rock has the natural charisma and ability that no other professional wrestler has ever had. Russo has nothing to do with that.

*****If he had the natural charism, why was he such a bust when he started out at first? Russo pushed the guy right and made him a heel, which was the first step in allowing the Rock to truly become an icon. Russo also gave the Rock the mic first, as Rocky even when he and Austin were feuding over the IC title, never spoke much. Also before Russo was headwriter, the Rock was prone to play a major role on the WWF's B show, which I forgot the name of. After Russo got the head writing position, the Rock was the biggest superstar in the fed. Coincidence?

[Guest vicvenomjr]

If Abbot got the title, it would have been an excellant choice for a multitude of reasons. First the guy had charisma. Second the guy was a drunk. Third he was a hick. Four he was a legit badass dude. Five he came across as a regular guy who could just kick ass real well. Combine those and you have a character, who the South would love as their champ.

 

If they kept the belt on him for a while it would be similar to what ROH has right now in Samoa Joe. There may be feds bigger than ROH, but no matter whose the champ of the other feds, Samoa Joe could probably kick their ass or at least hold his own. That's at least how it comes across. If Abbott was the champ for WCW, Russo was trying to say yeah the WWF is getting better ratings but our champ woukld kill their top guy (who ever it was, Austin, Trips, Foley, Rock etc.)

 

The Abbot title run may have also have started WCW in a direction of a more realness and shoot flavor to their product. While people kill Russo for trying to put to much emphasis on shoots in his second WCW run, that was currently the way that society as a whole was gearing towards and enjoying (evident by the the reality sensation ie. Survivor). By providing a more real product, Russo was saying, you can watch their (WWF) over the top fake product (falling limos anyone) or ours (WCW) where we won't insult your intelligence and keep the show as real as possible. Because that is what you, the fan, really wants.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

So, w/out Russo, the WWF did better buyrates in 2000 on 4 shows (including a HUGE improvement on Unforgiven Backlash) and did worse on 4 shows --- but they made more money on all but one. Odd.

*****Like I've said before, it's very difficult to compare the buy rates of 1999 and 2000. In 1999 the WWF was on the cusp of becoming a massive money maker, because before they were fighting for every dollar with WCW. In 1999 they were still in that fight, by 2000 they weren't and all rassling fans were just giving their money to WWF. See in 1999 Russo still had a fight on his hands with WCW, while in 2000 VKM really didn't have one.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

As Jim Cornette said, he should have had enough class to say "Vince, they offered me so much money, I had to take it".

 

He didn't tell ANYBODY. He just left while they were in England.

 

Classy.

-=Mike

...Heck, can anybody explain his brief departure from WCW in mid-2000? You know, where he came back to "help the boys"

*****Russo was the head writer for WWF during the time that they made more money and were more popular than ever before. And still VKM didn't give Russo a contract. I think VKM not giving Russo a contract is a far worse sin than Russo just leaving. It was just a trade-off of FU's.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

If you really think Vince Russo called all the shots in the WWF and Vince McMahon had nothing to do with it, you know nothing about the WWF.

*****I don't think Russo called all the shots, but I think he came up with every single idea.

 

You also are showing you know nothing about the BATB 2000 incident as it was all planned. Russo didn't go off on his own and Bitch out Hogan until Hogan had already carried out the plan and was in the back.

*****Are you saying that it was a work? Then why are we enduring Dutch right now.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

If Abbot got the title, it would have been an excellant choice for a multitude of reasons. First the guy had charisma. Second the guy was a drunk. Third he was a hick. Four he was a legit badass dude. Five he came across as a regular guy who could just kick ass real well. Combine those and you have a character, who the South would love as their champ.

 

If they kept the belt on him for a while it would be similar to what ROH has right now in Samoa Joe. There may be feds bigger than ROH, but no matter whose the champ of the other feds, Samoa Joe could probably kick their ass or at least hold his own. That's at least how it comes across. If Abbott was the champ for WCW, Russo was trying to say yeah the WWF is getting better ratings but our champ woukld kill their top guy (who ever it was, Austin, Trips, Foley, Rock etc.)

 

The Abbot title run may have also have started WCW in a direction of a more realness and shoot flavor to their product. While people kill Russo for trying to put to much emphasis on shoots in his second WCW run, that was currently the way that society as a whole was gearing towards and enjoying (evident by the the reality sensation ie. Survivor). By providing a more real product, Russo was saying, you can watch their (WWF) over the top fake product (falling limos anyone) or ours (WCW) where we won't insult your intelligence and keep the show as real as possible. Because that is what you, the fan, really wants.

Coulda woulda shoulda.

 

And there are more regions than the South out there.

 

That is all.

 

EDIT: wait, that isn't all. It still doesn't explain Tank being made to look anything BUT an ass-kicker when Russo booked, which I brought up earlier.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

$20 says vicvenomjr is Dave O'Neill.

*****Ah no, we are both journalists though. Which gets me thinking, that's probably why I respect Russo because his writing is so good. Wow that just hit me. Vic Venom Jr (University of Rhode Island Class of 2001....with a Journalism major and currently working at a daily newspaper)

 

 

Major Reason Why: He replies 3-4 times in a row like DO'N without use of the Edit button so that threads aren't flooded with dumbass replies.

*****how should I be posting....

 

 

And there's also a "Quote" button. Learn to use it. Simply C&P other statements into your posts is annoying to have to go "Oh great, gotta scroll down because this idiot doesn't know how to quote something".

*****but my resposes aren't fit to follow a box, they need to follow five stars.

 

 

AND WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND CAN DEFEND VINCE RUSSO!!!??!!!

*****just trying to enlighten you. Give me reasons why I shouldn't. Just give me reasons, for what he has done so wrong. I mean not to be a prick or anything but I still haven't seen anyone give forth the main argument for why Russo should be hated.

 

BTW... the first PPV written ENTIRELY BY HIMSELF was Survivor Seires 1998....which proves all the 1999 PPV's sucked because of him.

*****nope and definately wrong. Meltzer reports that Russo started as the head writer shortly after RR 98 (actually it may have been closer to mainia that year). That is fact.

 

With all due respect......

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

$20 says vicvenomjr is Dave O'Neill.

*****Ah no, we are both journalists though. Which gets me thinking, that's probably why I respect Russo because his writing is so good. Wow that just hit me. Vic Venom Jr (University of Rhode Island Class of 2001....with a Journalism major and currently working at a daily newspaper)

 

 

Major Reason Why: He replies 3-4 times in a row like DO'N without use of the Edit button so that threads aren't flooded with dumbass replies.

*****how should I be posting....

 

 

And there's also a "Quote" button. Learn to use it. Simply C&P other statements into your posts is annoying to have to go "Oh great, gotta scroll down because this idiot doesn't know how to quote something".

*****but my resposes aren't fit to follow a box, they need to follow five stars.

 

 

AND WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND CAN DEFEND VINCE RUSSO!!!??!!!

*****just trying to enlighten you. Give me reasons why I shouldn't. Just give me reasons, for what he has done so wrong. I mean not to be a prick or anything but I still haven't seen anyone give forth the main argument for why Russo should be hated.

 

BTW... the first PPV written ENTIRELY BY HIMSELF was Survivor Seires 1998....which proves all the 1999 PPV's sucked because of him.

*****nope and definately wrong. Meltzer reports that Russo started as the head writer shortly after RR 98 (actually it may have been closer to mainia that year). That is fact.

 

With all due respect......

Then scott Keith is a no good lying scumbag because in his book, I'm more than positive he said........ohhhh shit.

 

 

I was mixing 1998 for 2000 and Russo for Stephanie McMahon. Damn I feel stupid now.

 

 

My Bad!

 

 

And BTW, I'd watch out for the flooding of posts after posts because Mods will get on your ass for it. Since you speak english, thats a positive in your favor.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

Thanks for the warning. Also the reason Tank wasn't pushed again by Russo was because it got Russo fired the first time, why do it again. If you get fired from your own job, would you make the same mistakes again at another job or if you rehired.

[Guest MikeSC]

1. Austin 3:16 was created by an impromptu quote from Austin after he won the King of Ring. Russo had nothing to do with that.

*****But Russo did put Austin in solid fueds after he won the belt. Those feuds resulted in Austin becoming a known entity in the public circle (Rolling Stone , Newsweek articles). Russo also was the head writer at the time of Mr. McMhon-Austin feud, the biggest money making feud ever.

 

Umm, let's see:

 

Following his KOTR win, he feuded with Marc Mero for a while then basically Bret wanted to work with him and that happened. Their program wasn't really helped by Russo --- unless it comes out that he was behind the WM XIII double turn --- something I'm dubious of.

 

Austin became a known entity because of Steve Austin. Heck, back in 1991, I thought he could become WCW's next Ric Flair if they used him properly.

 

And, again, Austin v McMahon was written and booked by --- Austin and McMahon. Russo had little to do with it.

 

2. HHH really wasn't a consistent DRAWING main eventer until 2000, when he had made himself into an awesome heel.

*****I believe Russo gave the belt to Trips first. Russo also made him the leader of DX and as a result a solid push as a main player on the shows. Before Trips was really just seen as a lackey to HBK and a midcarder. True Trips truly became a mega superstar after Russo left, but Russo pushed him into that direction first, as a main event guy.

 

And HHH was sorely unready for it. The fans didn't buy him as a main eventer --- which is why dick jokes (apparently, a Russo talent) were such a big part of his schtick until, well, Russo left.

 

With Russo, Hunter wasn't viewed as a real main eventer.

 

3. Foley became God to the general public (the IWC already liked him) when he flew off that cage, whether you like it or not. Russo had nothing to do with that.

*****Again Russo was booking the shows then (when Foley got thrown off the cage). Personally I don't think Foley became God until Russo gave him a  few runs with the belt and a feud with the Rock. The Rock-Foley feud in my mind was the best booked N. American feud in the past 7 years.

 

Foley got put over with the Undertaker program, which proceeded Russo's tenure as TV writer.

 

4. Russo might have given The Rock some lines, but is clear that the Rock has the natural charisma and ability that no other professional wrestler has ever had. Russo has nothing to do with that.

*****If he had the natural charism, why was he such a bust when he started out at first?

 

Because his gimmick was crap. Patterson was REAL hit-and-miss.

 

Russo pushed the guy right and made him a heel, which was the first step in allowing the Rock to truly become an icon.

 

No, Rock talking on the mic got him over. His booking early in his heel turn (which consisted of him never getting a clean win as IC Champ before he beat Faarooq) didn't do much. Heck, Rock's most famous moment with the Nation (when he gave them presents) was a direct rip-off of a Cornette/Mantel angle.

 

Russo also gave the Rock the mic first, as Rocky even when he and Austin were feuding over the IC title, never spoke much.

 

And Rock made it work. Russo didn't write his lines.

 

Also before Russo was headwriter, the Rock was prone to play a major role on the WWF's B show, which I forgot the name of. After Russo got the head writing position, the Rock was the biggest superstar in the fed. Coincidence?

 

Yes.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

1. Austin 3:16 was created by an impromptu quote from Austin after he won the King of Ring. Russo had nothing to do with that.

*****But Russo did put Austin in solid fueds after he won the belt. Those feuds resulted in Austin becoming a known entity in the public circle (Rolling Stone , Newsweek articles). Russo also was the head writer at the time of Mr. McMhon-Austin feud, the biggest money making feud ever.

 

Umm, let's see:

 

Following his KOTR win, he feuded with Marc Mero for a while then basically Bret wanted to work with him and that happened. Their program wasn't really helped by Russo --- unless it comes out that he was behind the WM XIII double turn --- something I'm dubious of.

 

Austin became a known entity because of Steve Austin. Heck, back in 1991, I thought he could become WCW's next Ric Flair if they used him properly.

 

And, again, Austin v McMahon was written and booked by --- Austin and McMahon. Russo had little to do with it.

 

2. HHH really wasn't a consistent DRAWING main eventer until 2000, when he had made himself into an awesome heel.

*****I believe Russo gave the belt to Trips first. Russo also made him the leader of DX and as a result a solid push as a main player on the shows. Before Trips was really just seen as a lackey to HBK and a midcarder. True Trips truly became a mega superstar after Russo left, but Russo pushed him into that direction first, as a main event guy.

 

And HHH was sorely unready for it. The fans didn't buy him as a main eventer --- which is why dick jokes (apparently, a Russo talent) were such a big part of his schtick until, well, Russo left.

 

With Russo, Hunter wasn't viewed as a real main eventer.

 

3. Foley became God to the general public (the IWC already liked him) when he flew off that cage, whether you like it or not. Russo had nothing to do with that.

*****Again Russo was booking the shows then (when Foley got thrown off the cage). Personally I don't think Foley became God until Russo gave him a  few runs with the belt and a feud with the Rock. The Rock-Foley feud in my mind was the best booked N. American feud in the past 7 years.

 

Foley got put over with the Undertaker program, which proceeded Russo's tenure as TV writer.

 

4. Russo might have given The Rock some lines, but is clear that the Rock has the natural charisma and ability that no other professional wrestler has ever had. Russo has nothing to do with that.

*****If he had the natural charism, why was he such a bust when he started out at first?

 

Because his gimmick was crap. Patterson was REAL hit-and-miss.

 

Russo pushed the guy right and made him a heel, which was the first step in allowing the Rock to truly become an icon.

 

No, Rock talking on the mic got him over. His booking early in his heel turn (which consisted of him never getting a clean win as IC Champ before he beat Faarooq) didn't do much. Heck, Rock's most famous moment with the Nation (when he gave them presents) was a direct rip-off of a Cornette/Mantel angle.

 

Russo also gave the Rock the mic first, as Rocky even when he and Austin were feuding over the IC title, never spoke much.

 

And Rock made it work. Russo didn't write his lines.

 

Also before Russo was headwriter, the Rock was prone to play a major role on the WWF's B show, which I forgot the name of. After Russo got the head writing position, the Rock was the biggest superstar in the fed. Coincidence?

 

Yes.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

If Abbot got the title, it would have been an excellant choice for a multitude of reasons. First the guy had charisma.

Hid it well.

Second the guy was a drunk.

Ah, gonig with the Scott Hall assumption about being a World Champ.

Third he was a hick.

Yup, THAT draws huge fans.

Four he was a legit badass dude.

Not if you watch his later UFC work.

Five he came across as a regular guy who could just kick ass real well.

No, he came across as a talentless heat vacuum.

Combine those and you have a character, who the South would love as their champ.

Actually, the South would dump on him like there is no tomorrow.

 

If they kept the belt on him for a while it would be similar to what ROH has right now in Samoa Joe. There may be feds bigger than ROH, but no matter whose the champ of the other feds, Samoa Joe could probably kick their ass or at least hold his own. That's at least how it comes across. If Abbott was the champ for WCW, Russo was trying to say yeah the WWF is getting better ratings but our champ woukld kill their top guy (who ever it was, Austin, Trips, Foley, Rock etc.)

Because that worked such wonders for ECW.

 

The Abbot title run may have also have started WCW in a direction of a more realness and shoot flavor to their product. While people kill Russo for trying to put to much emphasis on shoots in his second WCW run, that was currently the way that society as a whole was gearing towards and enjoying (evident by the the reality sensation ie. Survivor). By providing a more real product, Russo was saying, you can watch their (WWF) over the top fake product (falling limos anyone) or ours (WCW) where we won't insult your intelligence and keep the show as real as possible. Because that is what you, the fan, really wants.

Actually, Scott Keith had the best line EVER about his booking:

 

Basically, everything you've seen up to now is a work --- but THIS is real.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

So, w/out Russo, the WWF did better buyrates in 2000 on 4 shows (including a HUGE improvement on Unforgiven Backlash) and did worse on 4 shows --- but they made more money on all but one. Odd.

*****Like I've said before, it's very difficult to compare the buy rates of 1999 and 2000. In 1999 the WWF was on the cusp of becoming a massive money maker, because before they were fighting for every dollar with WCW. In 1999 they were still in that fight, by 2000 they weren't and all rassling fans were just giving their money to WWF. See in 1999 Russo still had a fight on his hands with WCW, while in 2000 VKM really didn't have one.

WCW was quite dead in 1999. Buyrates were in the toilet. Ratings were in the toilet. They lost about $20M.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

$20 says vicvenomjr is Dave O'Neill.

*****Ah no, we are both journalists though.

Wow, that'll throw people off of the trail.

-=Mike

[Jack_Bauer 0]

Hmm, the ONLY thing I bought was that Abbot was a badass. The bad thing was he was shit.

 

He made Sid look good in the ring.

[HandofFate 0]

Average Raw Rating in 1999 w/ Russo:  6.08

Average Raw Rating in 2000 w/o Russo: 5.92

 

Average Nitro Rating in 1999:  3.65

Average Nitro Rating in 2000:  2.71

Of course, ratings dropped big-time with the poorly-done switch to TNN and they never recovered. It wasn't the writing.

-=Mike

Has anyone ever done a comparison between USA & TNN ratings? When RAW switched to TNN I just had this suspiscion (?spell) that ratings would drop cuz no one really wanted to watch TNN and it was one of those niche channels like HGTV, you know?

[HandofFate 0]

Buy Rate of Russo's "Baby", WM 15 - 2.32

 

Buy Rate of Royal Rumble 2003??????

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Benoit - Angle to bits, but Russo's PPV's honestly seem to be.... of i dunno............purchased by more people

 

HAH

Let's actually compare apples and apples here, 'K?

 

Royal Rumble 1999 --- 1.88 (Gate: $630,050)

Royal Rumble 2000 --- 1.58 (Gate: $1,142,540)

 

St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 --- 1.21 (Gate: $316,618)

No Way Out 2000 --- 1.21 (Gate: $451,625)

 

WrestleMania XV --- 2.32 (Gate: $1,438,050)

WM 2K --- 2.08 (Gate: $1,347,800)

 

Backlash 1999 --- 1.06 (Gate: $293,873)

Backlash 2000 --- 1.62 (Gate: $540,820)

 

Over the Edge 1999 --- 1.1 (Gate: $453,893)

Judgment Day 2000 --- 1.05 (Gate: $596,050)

 

King of the Ring 1999 --- 1.13 (Gate: $574,200)

King of the Ring 2000 --- 1.19 (Gate: $865,788)

 

Fully Loaded 1999 --- .94 (Gate: $547,380)

Fully Loaded 2000 --- 1.04 (Gate: $788,410)

 

SummerSlam 1999 --- 1.61 (Gate: $557,129)

SummerSlam 2000 --- 1.4 (Gate: $1,151,940)

 

Unforgiven 1999 --- .85 (Gate: $505,477)

Unforgiven 2000 --- 1.5 (Gate: $822,400)

 

So, w/out Russo, the WWF did better buyrates in 2000 on 4 shows (including a HUGE improvement on Unforgiven Backlash) and did worse on 4 shows --- but they made more money on all but one. Odd.

-=Mike

For all the money that they made at the gates, you should add how much capacity that the places held AND how much the charge for tickets were. You are kind of making it sound as if they were all in the same capacity for seating and in the same city each time. Some cities have a bigger fan base and some cities have a lesser fan base besides the population of the area that the event took place in.

[Guest MikeSC]

Buy Rate of Russo's "Baby", WM 15 - 2.32

 

Buy Rate of Royal Rumble 2003??????

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Benoit - Angle to bits, but Russo's PPV's honestly seem to be.... of i dunno............purchased by more people

 

HAH

Let's actually compare apples and apples here, 'K?

 

Royal Rumble 1999 --- 1.88 (Gate: $630,050)

Royal Rumble 2000 --- 1.58 (Gate: $1,142,540)

 

St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 --- 1.21 (Gate: $316,618)

No Way Out 2000 --- 1.21 (Gate: $451,625)

 

WrestleMania XV --- 2.32 (Gate: $1,438,050)

WM 2K --- 2.08 (Gate: $1,347,800)

 

Backlash 1999 --- 1.06 (Gate: $293,873)

Backlash 2000 --- 1.62 (Gate: $540,820)

 

Over the Edge 1999 --- 1.1 (Gate: $453,893)

Judgment Day 2000 --- 1.05 (Gate: $596,050)

 

King of the Ring 1999 --- 1.13 (Gate: $574,200)

King of the Ring 2000 --- 1.19 (Gate: $865,788)

 

Fully Loaded 1999 --- .94 (Gate: $547,380)

Fully Loaded 2000 --- 1.04 (Gate: $788,410)

 

SummerSlam 1999 --- 1.61 (Gate: $557,129)

SummerSlam 2000 --- 1.4 (Gate: $1,151,940)

 

Unforgiven 1999 --- .85 (Gate: $505,477)

Unforgiven 2000 --- 1.5 (Gate: $822,400)

 

So, w/out Russo, the WWF did better buyrates in 2000 on 4 shows (including a HUGE improvement on Unforgiven Backlash) and did worse on 4 shows --- but they made more money on all but one. Odd.

-=Mike

For all the money that they made at the gates, you should add how much capacity that the places held AND how much the charge for tickets were. You are kind of making it sound as if they were all in the same capacity for seating and in the same city each time. Some cities have a bigger fan base and some cities have a lesser fan base besides the population of the area that the event took place in.

Of course, if they drew MORE fans and ran LARGER arenas --- it does kinda disprove the whole "Russo is great" argument, does it not?

 

I mean, if the WWF does just peachy without him --- heck, better --- just how important was he?

-=Mike

...And if WCW does worse with him, how valuable is he?

[JoeDirt 0]

I actually really liked Backlash 1999...Austin/Rock as the ME was fun, and despite a dead crowd, Undertaker/Shamrock was actually really good. Plus decent stuff from HHH vs. Xpac, Jarrett and Owen vs. NAO, and an okay hardcore title match with Holly and Snow. Oh, and the Boiler Room Brawl with Show and Foley, although using fake props, was a fun watch, too.

 

Maybe I'm the only one, though.

[Guest vicvenomjr]

Umm, let's see:

 

Following his KOTR win, he feuded with Marc Mero for a while then basically Bret wanted to work with him and that happened. Their program wasn't really helped by Russo --- unless it comes out that he was behind the WM XIII double turn --- something I'm dubious of.

*****No one knew who Austin was in the public's conscience until Russo started writing.

 

Austin became a known entity because of Steve Austin. Heck, back in 1991, I thought he could become WCW's next Ric Flair if they used him properly.

*****Did he get buy rates or ratings? No. When did he get buy rates and ratings? When Russo booked. What has he done since Russo left? Nothing.

 

And, again, Austin v McMahon was written and booked by --- Austin and McMahon. Russo had little to do with it.

*****I should stop right now because thta is some ultimate BS. If they did book it why hasn't either man had a good gimmick or idea since Russo left.

 

And HHH was sorely unready for it. The fans didn't buy him as a main eventer --- which is why dick jokes (apparently, a Russo talent) were such a big part of his schtick until, well, Russo left.

*****Ratings continued to go up. Crips was just at the start of his push, who knows where Russo would have taken him.

 

With Russo, Hunter wasn't viewed as a real main eventer.

*****He wasn't viewed as a main eventer because Austin didn't job to him.

 

Foley got put over with the Undertaker program, which proceeded Russo's tenure as TV writer.

*****Still Foley was viewed as a mid carder, until Russo gave him the belt.

 

Because his gimmick was crap. Patterson was REAL hit-and-miss.

*****Ah no. Rock is over in everything he does, even terrible movies. The first gimmick was crap because VKM can't book.

 

No, Rock talking on the mic got him over. His booking early in his heel turn (which consisted of him never getting a clean win as IC Champ before he beat Faarooq) didn't do much. Heck, Rock's most famous moment with the Nation (when he gave them presents) was a direct rip-off of a Cornette/Mantel angle.

*****The whole storyline got him over. The eyebrow, the move set, the charisma, the interviews, the changes in storylines, the catch phrases, the nation dialog between him and Farooq. Think of it this way, how many catchphrases has Rock created since Russo left.... not many.

 

And Rock made it work. Russo didn't write his lines.

****See what I just wrote, the Rock has not had one intersting program since Russo left. Not one or made one intersting catchphrase.

 

******On to Abbott......

 

Hid it well.

*****Ever see one of his UFC inetrviews, he would have been gold on the mic.

 

Ah, gonig with the Scott Hall assumption about being a World Champ.

*****Did Hall ever hold the belt...........

QUOTE

Third he was a hick.

 

Yup, THAT draws huge fans.

*****Austin did...

QUOTE

Four he was a legit badass dude.

 

Not if you watch his later UFC work.

*****I gave up after they sold out. When I watched he was the best.

 

QUOTE

Five he came across as a regular guy who could just kick ass real well.

 

No, he came across as a talentless heat vacuum.

*****He was never given a chance because he was a guy Hogan couldn't control.

 

QUOTE

Combine those and you have a character, who the South would love as their champ.

 

Actually, the South would dump on him like there is no tomorrow.

*****That's fine, he would have gotten real heat and nothing canned.

 

Because that worked such wonders for ECW.

*****It didn't work in ECE Taz was too small, Douglas failed in the WWF, Sandman was never taken serious, Cactus was a WCW mid carder and Raven was Johnny Polo.

 

Actually, Scott Keith had the best line EVER about his booking:

 

Basically, everything you've seen up to now is a work --- but THIS is real.

-=Mike

 

*****SK is the most overrated man on the net. It's not tough to say this sucks, that sucks everything sucks. I take his word with a grain of salt. Read Todd Martin's review on his book, it's right on.

WCW was quite dead in 1999. Buyrates were in the toilet. Ratings were in the toilet. They lost about $20M.

-=Mike

*****In 1999 no one thought WCW would collapse and shut down they were still alive.

 

Hmm, the ONLY thing I bought was that Abbot was a badass. The bad thing was he was shit.

 

He made Sid look good in the ring.

 

****Name me one feud or match he was in? Can't because he was given nothing by the bookers. You would have no idea how good he was, until he had a purpose.

 

 

I mean, if the WWF does just peachy without him --- heck, better --- just how important was he?

-=Mike

...And if WCW does worse with him, how valuable is he?

****How did they do worse. Younger stars were pushed, new champs crowned, story's were consistent, everyone had a role. What your judging the guys impact for 6 mos. in a company doomed to fail.

 

Again be exact what did Russo do wrong to generate this blind hatred from the smarks.

 

Has Austin been better since Russo left, Rocky, VKM, Taker. Answer is no.