Flair/Steamboat

[Guest ManKinnd]

I just watched this match on the Flair DVD, the "greatest match ever," and I just have to get some opinions on this specific part of it:

In the beginning of the match, Steamboats works the hell out of Flair's arm, and then, apart from one or two shakes or stretches, Flair never sells it. It never keeps him from doing anything or puts him in pain after a move. Apart from that, the match totally blew me away, but I was thinking that the greatest match ever should have some better selling than what Flair gave.

[Guest drdrainoscott]

I personally think that the Wrestle War match is the worse of the three of that series, with the Clash match being the best. I really don't see what makes Wrestle War so special.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Yeah, the feud leading up to the match is more why people sight it as so great rather than the match itself, I sometimes feel. Not that it doesn't rule. I will say this though, I prefer Rock/Austin WMX7. Seriously.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Flair sells it, then gradually stops. He doesn't do a great job, but it's there, and it gets the point across well enough.

 

I don't think anybody (well, maybe Scott "Fat Bastard" Keith and maybe some Flair marks) actually thinks it's the greatest match ever anymore.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Say it with me now...

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Adrenaline

[Kardo 0]

That Adrenaline will do that to you. I'm sure Flair was running on it all match and what's up with the ending of that match? So anti-climatic and disappointing.

[Guest Kane Fan]

I like matches ending so suddenly like that - makes roll ups seem more exciting because it shows that they can lead to the win.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Worst of the trilogy. Not in the same league as Clash.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

RRR won't let go of the damn Adrenaline theory. LOL

 

Which match that they had was the 2 out of 3 falls? I can't keep track of NWA from the late 80's because of my WWE Style mind-set.

[Slayer 0]

I like matches ending so suddenly like that - makes roll ups seem more exciting because it shows that they can lead to the win.

I agree with that. Nowadays it's all about beating the man unconscious before pinning him.

 

I always thought Goldberg's first loss should've come not by someone overpowering him, but catching him off guard with a quick small package (Bret Hart would've been perfect for this)

 

As for Flair-Steamboat III, I like it better than II (haven't seen the first one fully, just the ending), because I thought the psychology was good for what it was worth and it was pretty exciting... plus, it had a definitive ending, none of that "double-pin draw controversy" shit

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Flair/Steamboat Wrestlewar 89 is pretty far from being the greatest match ever. It's not the best match on U.S. soil, and it's not even the best match of the series.

 

I don't have a problem with Flair's selling of the arm, as it's intent was to set up the Double Chickenwing(which oddly enough in the Clash match was put over as a back targeting submission, but whatever), not to limit his offense.

 

I prefer Chi-Town, because not only is it much more exciting, and better put together, but the psychology goes beyond targeting a limb. Just the opening spot of Steamboat trying to catch Flair off guard with a flash pin after a shoulder block is smarter than anything you'll find in Wrestlewar.

[Guest Ray]

It seems like people just chose WrestleWar as the best and repeated it for years without really thinking about it. The angle with Funk at the end also has something to do with it.

 

 

I will say this though, I prefer Rock/Austin WMX7. Seriously.

That's a top 5 WWF/E match for me. Superb.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I've seen only part of the Steamboat vs Flair at the Clash and I believe I've seen the other 2 well talked about matches from that timeframe. From what I've seen, I liked the Clash the best.

 

Steamboat just dragging his leg along the ground while chopping away in a chop fight and winning is one my favourite wrestling moments of all time. Terry Funk is awesome calling the action here with the quote of Flair and Steamboat being two of the world's greatest atheletes in the world. Bar None. In fact, my friends and I use the bar none phrase to finish off an arguement. If you say it at the end of a point you're trying to make you're automatically correct. If you're proven wrong though you lose your bar nones for a month. You're alloted 3 of them a day and if you're feeling really confident about something you can use bar nones for life. However, if you lose them here you of course lose your bar nones for life. We often use the bar nones to liven up wrestling events as it's like money free betting.

[DangerousDamon 0]

I don't have a problem with Flair's selling of the arm, as it's intent was to set up the Double Chickenwing(which oddly enough in the Clash match was put over as a back targeting submission, but whatever), not to limit his offense.

Well, a double chickenwing hurts the arms mainly,but it can put some pressure on the back.

[Guest JumpinJackFlash]

Flair/Steamboat Wrestlewar is the second GREATEST MATCH!

 

Clash 6 takes the prize for the GREATEST, because 55 minutes of Flair/Steamboat is better than 31 minutes.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Well, a double chickenwing hurts the arms mainly,but it can put some pressure on the back.

That really doesn't matter, since it was put over as a back submission in the first match thanks to JR's commentary and Steamboat's back targeting offense to set it up.

 

But in the next match he starts working the arm to set it up. I wouldn't detract from the match because of it, but it is odd, and inconsistent.

[godthedog 0]

following that logic:

 

if flair's arm is weakened, it's easier for steamboat to put him in the hold because flair can't fight out of the position as well. like bret hart working somebody's leg to set up the sharpshooter: the sharpshooter hurts the back, but bret needs his opponent's legs to be weak enough for him to set up the move.

 

at the clash, steamboat was working the back, & the chicken wing was just done on the fly to further the back work: steamboat wasn't setting up for it.

 

so if steamboat's not consciously working up to the chicken wing, it makes sense for him to work the back beforehand, since it does more damage to the back. if he IS working up to the chicken wing, it makes sense to work the arm, because that makes it easier for steamboat to set the move up.

[WrestlingDeacon 0]

Clash 6 is the best 2 out of 3 falls and it's my favorite match of all time. The storyline and psychology of that match is brilliant. Not only do they play off of stuff from the earlier falls, but from the previous match. Seriously, if you draw up a list of the best matches ever (we're say in America so I don't have puro punks breathing down my neck) Steamboat and Flair are like in over half of them.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

2/3 Falls was definitely my most favorite match between them. Chi-Town Rumble would be second because Ricky Steamboat won, and WrestleWar would be last, but all of their matches were great. I was more surprised with Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham, I expected Windham to be like Undertaker but he ended up being a Ric Flair type wrestler.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Clash > Chi-Town > Wrestlewar

[Betty Houle 0]

Clash > Wrestlewar > Chi-Town

[MDH257 0]

2/3 Falls was definitely my most favorite match between them. Chi-Town Rumble would be second because Ricky Steamboat won, and WrestleWar would be last, but all of their matches were great. I was more surprised with Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham, I expected Windham to be like Undertaker but he ended up being a Ric Flair type wrestler.

Yeah, Bary Windham was great until he left WCW in '93. Then he seemed to get out of shape and stopped caring.

 

Chi-Town Rumble is my favorite of the Flair- Steamboat matches. But I don't like getting into these "which 5 star match is the greatest" debates, because when you start splitting hairs to determine why one match is the best, you invariably come across as saying that the others suck.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

I much prefer the Clash match over WrestleWar. Haven't seen Chi-Town yet, so I can't really call Clash the best yet.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

http://hometown.aol.com/gf4life/myhomepage...ge/profile.html

 

Check the best of Steamboat/Flair Feud tape and judge for yourself!!!!!!

 

and sorry for the cheap plug.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Clash 6 is the best 2 out of 3 falls and it's my favorite match of all time. The storyline and psychology of that match is brilliant. Not only do they play off of stuff from the earlier falls, but from the previous match. Seriously, if you draw up a list of the best matches ever (we're say in America so I don't have puro punks breathing down my neck) Steamboat and Flair are like in over half of them.

I really enjoy the second fall of the Clash match. They totally break away from the usual Flair/Steamboat formula, and continue to further the match by telling the story of a fired up Steamboat determined to make up for the last fall. If I recall, Steamboat even busts out the Flying Body Press very early for a nearfall.

 

However, the work regresses in the third fall as they go back to the usual by the number Flair/Steamboat spots.

 

The first fall was solid, and Steamboat smartly ditched his determined challenger persona in favor of a more confident World Champion role. ex. Not trying alot of flash pins, cranking the headlocks instead of desperately holding on to them.etc.

 

Still as usual, they tend to get stuck in neutral alot, killing time with repetive sequences instead of progressing the match.

 

Overall, I find Chi-Town to be the superior of the other two. It's faster, more consistent, less repetitive, and much more smarter and intresting than the other two.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

I REALLY dug Chi-Town over BOTH of these matches. It's truly something funny, and it's something Flair said.

 

"People say that either the matches Steamboat and I had on TV were some of the best of all time. Truth is, we probably had 100 or 200 matches better that nobody saw because only the people in the arena were able to see them."

 

Chi-Town had this awesome pace to it. It was speed vs. cunningness, and even though Clash VI was so great because it had the 55 minutes and 18 seconds behind, I felt kinda cheated when Flair didn't sell much of ANYTHING that Steamer did aside from his back. WrestleWar had the same problem, as Flair didn't sell the arm. Looking back, both matches are stupendous...but if I look at other matches...I think I might end up putting Rey/Eddy, Benoit/Hart, and Owen/Bret ahead of those matches, just because after watching these extensively, I have a better feeling as to what to look for.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

"People say that either the matches Steamboat and I had on TV were some of the best of all time. Truth is, we probably had 100 or 200 matches better that nobody saw because only the people in the arena were able to see them."

Kinda makes me wish I wasn't about 7 years old at the time. Maybe I would;ve went and seen them fight live........GODDAMN my parents.