The OAO NHL 2003-2004 Season Thread

[Guest AllCanadian]

Most NHL suspension's should be and are based on precident. Bertuzzi will get 15 games max most likely just miss the rest of the regular season. This could have been avoided two ways on the Colorado side. Why Granato was playing a marked man in a 7-2 game is ridiculous. Second Moore could just take his lumps like a man and have it be done with. Hiding behind your visor and taking Matt Cooke to the ice the second your visor rises up half a inch is not taking your lumps. He could have taken the challenges of May, Allen, Rutuu, Bertuzzi, Cooke a second time and that would have been the end of it. Am I condoning Bertuzzi? NO but it could have been avoided on the Colorado side. I could see that coming 10 minutes away it's a time honored tredition in hockey to take liberties when the game is out of reach. We did it in Pee-Wee and it's done in the NHL Granato needed to double shift Worrell and use his head.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Yeah, I have my doubts about dumping Salo from the Oilers. But hey, Kevin Lowe said he wasn't raising the white flag and was going to push like crazy from here to the end to get that #8 spot, and I'll believe Kevin Lowe. I'm pulling for the Oilers to get it because I don't really like the LA Kings nor Predators, and hopefully all six Canadian teams can make it in.

[Guest Bottled Black]

My opinion, it was unnecessary. Bertuzzi should be suspended for the rest of the season including the playoffs. There's no excuse for a cheap shot like that.

 

I was expecting the next Ranger trade to be announced as Messier's cane for a baby carriage and an embryo to be named later.

[starvenger 0]

Most NHL suspension's should be and are based on precident. Bertuzzi will get 15 games max most likely just miss the rest of the regular season.

I hate to tell you this, but based on the most recent precedent (McSorley) Bertuzzi would be gone for this season and next...

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

I would think they HAVE to come down hard on Bertuzzi with this. With the bounty talk and the end result.......if he gets off light,there is going to be huge negative outcry and the NHL will look very very bad in terms of disciplining their "star" players

[Guest AllCanadian]

Most NHL suspension's should be and are based on precident.  Bertuzzi will get 15 games max most likely just miss the rest of the regular season.

I hate to tell you this, but based on the most recent precedent (McSorley) Bertuzzi would be gone for this season and next...

They have to and should take the use of the stick into account.

[the pinjockey 0]

I don't see a difference (stick or not). Hitting someone from behind with the direct intent to injure. And even if you want to take the stick into account, McSorely didn't ride Brashear down and drive his head into the ice. I think that evens up the situations.

 

Bertuzzi needs to be sent home for the rest of the year (inc. playoffs) and then in the summer the NHL can decide if they want to take any more action. But if he doesn't get the rest of the season for breaking someone's neck, you can kiss any respectability the NHL has left in the public eye goodbye.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Why has Moore gotten away with injuring Naslund? That's the question. Two wrongs DO make a right and therefore Bertuzzi should be dressed for the first round.

[the max 0]

Why has Moore gotten away with injuring Naslund? That's the question. Two wrongs DO make a right and therefore Bertuzzi should be dressed for the first round.

That was accidental. He didn't sucker punch him and slam his face on the ice. He accidentally swerved into him.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

If Max Power's description of the hit on Naslund is to be believed ..and the fact the league did nothing to Moore means anything.....the hit on Naslund was accidental. Didn't I read a quote from Naslund himself that he even thought the hit was clean ..he just thought he was in a vulnerable position?

 

Naslund missed three games with apparently a slight concussion. The incidents aren't even comparable. Bertuzzi could have killed Moore the way it happened.

[the pinjockey 0]

I didn't think the Naslund hit was dirty. If it was it was borderline dirty, at worst.

 

That, certainly, does not justify what Todd Bertuzzi did. Give him a late hit somewhere in the game? Fine. Start a fight with him? Go for it. Sucker punch him and drive him head first in the ice? Way too far.

[the max 0]

If Max Power's description of the hit on Naslund is to be believed ..and the fact the league did nothing to Moore means anything.....the hit on Naslund was accidental. Didn't I read a quote from Naslund himself that he even thought the hit was clean ..he just thought he was in a vulnerable position?

What I quoted earlier was a direct quote from Naslund from TSN's website.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

The hit was dirty because Naslund was in a vulnerable position and Moore went for his head.

[The Czech Republic 0]

If Max Power's description of the hit on Naslund is to be believed ..and the fact the league did nothing to Moore means anything.....the hit on Naslund was accidental. Didn't I read a quote from Naslund himself that he even thought the hit was clean ..he just thought he was in a vulnerable position?

 

Naslund missed three games with apparently a slight concussion. The incidents aren't even comparable. Bertuzzi could have killed Moore the way it happened.

Like Arn Anderson says, send one of ours to the hospital and we'll send one of yours to the morgue, I guess.

[the max 0]

The hit was dirty because Naslund was in a vulnerable position and Moore went for his head.

Moore didn't go for his head, Moore accidentally hit him in the head.

 

Regardless. Even if the Naslund hit was dirty, there is NO EXCUSE for what Bertuzzi did. Period.

[Guest AllCanadian]

I didn't think the Naslund hit was dirty. If it was it was borderline dirty, at worst.

 

That, certainly, does not justify what Todd Bertuzzi did. Give him a late hit somewhere in the game? Fine. Start a fight with him? Go for it. Sucker punch him and drive him head first in the ice? Way too far.

Think about it this way if Bertuzzi turned Moore around dropped his right glove and landed the same monster right hand which resulted in Moore cracking his skull on the ice and fell into a coma what would the penalty be?? 5 for fighting 2 for instigating? What if he gave a late hit which resulted in Moore breaking his neck(not cracking his vertabrae) IMO the punch was brutal because Bertuzzi's a hoss but if Moore hadn't had a soft skull and get knocked out cold it'd be nothing more than a roughing penalty. Granted it was from behind but what he did in theory may have been the most human thing to do. I've seen alot worse coming from closed fist punches and ruthless hit's from behind.

[the max 0]

I didn't think the Naslund hit was dirty.  If it was it was borderline dirty, at worst.

 

That, certainly, does not justify what Todd Bertuzzi did.  Give him a late hit somewhere in the game? Fine.  Start a fight with him?  Go for it.  Sucker punch him and drive him head first in the ice?  Way too far.

Think about it this way if Bertuzzi turned Moore around dropped his right glove and landed the same monster right hand which resulted in Moore cracking his skull on the ice and fell into a coma what would the penalty be?? 5 for fighting 2 for instigating? What if he gave a late hit which resulted in Moore breaking his neck(not cracking his vertabrae) IMO the punch was brutal because Bertuzzi's a hoss but if Moore hadn't had a soft skull and get knocked out cold it'd be nothing more than a roughing penalty. Granted it was from behind but what he did in theory may have been the most human thing to do. I've seen alot worse coming from closed fist punches and ruthless hit's from behind.

The most human thing to do?!

 

Are you kidding me?!

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

I didn't think the Naslund hit was dirty.  If it was it was borderline dirty, at worst.

 

That, certainly, does not justify what Todd Bertuzzi did.  Give him a late hit somewhere in the game? Fine.  Start a fight with him?  Go for it.  Sucker punch him and drive him head first in the ice?  Way too far.

Think about it this way if Bertuzzi turned Moore around dropped his right glove and landed the same monster right hand which resulted in Moore cracking his skull on the ice and fell into a coma what would the penalty be?? 5 for fighting 2 for instigating? What if he gave a late hit which resulted in Moore breaking his neck(not cracking his vertabrae) IMO the punch was brutal because Bertuzzi's a hoss but if Moore hadn't had a soft skull and get knocked out cold it'd be nothing more than a roughing penalty. Granted it was from behind but what he did in theory may have been the most human thing to do. I've seen alot worse coming from closed fist punches and ruthless hit's from behind.

The most human thing to do?!

 

Are you kidding me?!

Look at it this way

 

He could've swung his stick at his skull, cross checked him from behind headfirst, or even cross checked him to the back of the head.

 

There has been far worse in this league. We wouldn't be talking about such a big suspension if he wouldn't have cracked Moore's verterbraes. Did Moore mean to go for Naslund's head? No, but he did. Did Bertuzzi attempt to seriously injure Moore? No, but he did. Many people have been suckerpunched from behind before. Many people have been driven head first to the ice before. Bertuzzi didn't realize how strong he was. If he hadn't knocked Moore out on his feet, Moore would've been able to brace his fall and turtle without serious injury.

 

Am I condong Bertuzzi's actions? No. he should be suspended for 10-15 games. But definately not for the entire playoffs. Nor should this be under any criminal investigation. I mean really, what are we going to charge Tie Domi for assault whenever he wins a fight? Using a stick as a weapon, I can see - as that isn't allowed under any circumstances whatsoever. But punching is just as much part of hockey as face-offs. He deserves to be punished for punching the guy from behind. Thats it. Its not against the laws of society - hockey has their "own" rules.

[the max 0]

Hockey has their own rules, but when a player brazenly breaks them for a cowardly act of revenge for his not-even-fallen captain, you need to start looking at things in a different way.

 

It sucks that Bertuzzi may face real charges, it really does. But when it's looked at as Steve Moore is out for the rest of the season because of one man's cowardice, people tend to want the right thing to happen.

 

The right thing is Bertuzzi missing the rest of the Vancouver Canucks season and playoff run. Bertuzzi took a gamble. And he missed. Terribly.

 

If Marty McSorley gets suspended for a year for a lovetap on Brashear, Bertuzzi should get the book thrown at him...from behind, causing him to fall flat on his face.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

He didn't knock him out with a punch to the back of the head. He knocked him out when his 235 lbs came down on his back driving his head into the ice.

 

At any rate,it was real gutsy for 6'4 235 lbs Todd Bertuzzi to punch someone in the head from behind in the first place. And then jump on their back.

[the max 0]

Reports said that Moore was out before he hit the ice, so it appears that Bertuzzi did knock him out with a sucker punch. The whole "jumping on his back and riding him to the ice" caused the damage to his neck and vertebraes.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

I stand corrected on that point then

[treble 0]

Yeah, if you watch the replay from a head-on view, you can see that after he's punched his head drops and he comes down on top of it when Bertuzzi drives him into the ground.

 

Oh, and McSorley did more than just give Brashear a lovetap. He two-handed him across the side of his head. Now, I know most of the damage was done when Brashear's head hit the ice, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the slash was hard enough to at least incapacitate Brashear enough to knock him backwards.

[the max 0]

I always saw it as it was hard enough to knock him off-balance, but I'm admittedly biased there.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I was watching the game and I was just sickened but 'Tuzzi.

 

I was hoping all the talk of revenge on Moore were just idle threats but at worst I thought he might get roughed up a bit, nothing this drastic.

 

I've never been a fan of Tod anyway but it saddens me that the man did that. Not to mention this fucks the Canucks over but good (Sorry it's what matters to me).

 

Watching it my first thoughts were "Shit, he coulda killed him" this morning i talked to a bunch of people that were at the game and they said that the whole arena was just stunned.

 

What makes me really mad is the people who say that Moore got what he deserved. That's utter horse shit. This isn't the 1970's anymore.

[Gert T 0]

I think Bertuzzi will and should be suspended for the rest of the season and the playoffs. I don't think he should get the full year like McSorley since he used his stick. I do not think he will get charged either.

 

Can the league make it like a 40 game suspension to cover the regular season and then the max amount of games a team could play in the playoffs? Then if there's still 6 or 7 games left to start the beginning of next season.

[KingPK 0]

Think about it this way if Bertuzzi turned Moore around dropped his right glove and landed the same monster right hand which resulted in Moore cracking his skull on the ice and fell into a coma what would the penalty be?? 5 for fighting 2 for instigating?  What if he gave a late hit which resulted in Moore breaking his neck(not cracking his vertabrae)

 

Well, Bertuzzi didn't do either of those things, did he? He came up from behind, cracked the guy and then used his weight to drive Moore to the ice, which caused the neck injury by my view. That's what happened. No amount of "What if.....?" situations will change the facts.

 

IMO the punch was brutal because Bertuzzi's a hoss but if Moore hadn't had a soft skull and get knocked out cold it'd be nothing more than a roughing penalty.  Granted it was from behind but what he did in theory may have been the most human thing to do.  I've seen alot worse coming from closed fist punches and ruthless hit's from behind.

 

So it's Moore's fault that he has a soft skull? Are you KIDDING me? Shit, I'm not that big of a hockey fan and even I know that was WAYYYY over the line.

 

Bertuzzi should miss the rest of the season, the first round of the playoffs, and maybe the first two games of the second round (if the Canucks make it that far.)

 

Shit like that is uncalled for.

[Red Baron 0]

Bertuzzi needs to be sent home for the rest of the year (inc. playoffs) and then in the summer the NHL can decide if they want to take any more action. But if he doesn't get the rest of the season for breaking someone's neck, you can kiss any respectability the NHL has left in the public eye goodbye.

 

The league has been a farce for awhile now, and with the two recent brawls in Phili and Vancouver, its not hockey anymore, its wrestling on ice.

 

 

Tony Granato should know this, he was an enforcer type player, and knew that when in this type of blow out game, you don't put out marked men, or superstars out there.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Oh, get off your fucking high horses (especially you Winnie the Pooh fans - McSorely's actions were far worse).

 

To begin with, it is the actions and intent that should be punished and not the result. If I through a vicious elbow, I should be punished the same whether I knock a guy out and end his career or the guy gets up right away. Hell, you swing a stick at a guy's head and its apparent that there is a pretty good intent to injure him. I think you are a fucking idiot if you believe that Bertuzzi was trying to break Moore's neck.

 

On top of this, Bertuzzi's actions are nowhere close to the worst actions to occur on the ice in the past few seasons.

 

Andrei Nazarov, Tie Domi, and Matt Johnson have all thrown sucker punches as bad as, or in the case of Johnson, worse than the one Bertuzzi threw. All those instances saw the recieving player wind up with a concusion and in some cases stitches, and in the Johnson case, the player was forced to retire. Hell, Brashears punch on Ray the other night was nearly as bad with the main difference being that Brashear didn't punch him as hard and Ray has a lot better jaw than Moore.

 

Scott Niedermayers stick over Worrells head, Suter's cross check to Kariya's face, and Domi's cheap shot on Niedermayer all had far worse intent to injure their opponents than simply a punch and a tackle.

 

Not that anyone deserves to be knocked out and have broken verterbrae but like someone else mentioned, Moore himself could have avoided this by taking his bumps like a man.

 

When you take a head shot at a teams star player (I'm not going to argue whether or not that hit was legal because I think any hits to the head should be banned, primarily those used by Scott Stevens), you need to back up your actions, whether the hit was clean or not.

 

Scraping with Matt Cooke is one thing, but if you make that hit, then you need to stand up and fight your battles. And when you are challenged again later in the game you need to accept that challenge. I don't care if it would have even been a George Larocque playing for Vancouver who challenged Moore, Moore needs to accept any challenge. Hell, I think Bertuzzi's intent was to get Moore to fight back. When he saw Moore going down, I think he went down with him to beat on a guy that was turtling (ring a bell Bruins fans?).

 

The problem with this whole scenario is the instigator penalty. It gives cowards like Moore a chance to hide behind their actions. Hell, even Claude Lemieux was man enough to step up and fight Darren McCarty when challenged.

 

Hell, all you Bruins lovers know what its like when a coward won't accept his bumps. Maybe Cam Neely should have been suspended for life for attacking Ulfie when it was clear that Ulf was not interested in fight. But instead, Neely beat and continued to beat on a man who was not fighting back.

 

So going by the whole criminal charges theory, in my book what Neely did is assault just as much as what Bertuzzi did. The results of his actions may not have been as bad but both had similar intent.

 

I'm not saying Bertuzzi should get off scott free. By the precedent set with previous sucker punches, I think Bertuzzi should get in the 15 game range. And by no means should he face criminal charges. Charges would open up a whole can of worms. In the McSorely case, there was clearly intent to severly injure Brashear (and don't give me that, "he swung his stick at his head to get his attention shit"). If you charge Bertuzzi, then you potentially open up charges against any borderline shit. Elbow to the guys head. Charges. Instigator penalty. Charges. Knock a guys teeth out with a high stick. Charges.

[Red Baron 0]

^Excellent post BTW, but I have to nit pick on Stevens.

 

There a difference between a cheap shot to the head, and a clean hit. Any Stevens hit he has done, whether it was Paul Karyia last year in the playoffs, or Lindros hit a few years back, those are clean shoulder hits, when both victims had their head down, and Stevens laid the shoulder into him. He tuned Karyia cleanly, and knocked the wind out of him, and his shoulder hit on Lindros, well dumbass (Lindros) didn't have his helmet on tight enough, which could have prevented the concussion.

 

Yes Stevens nails people hard, and sometimes it goes to the head, but never intentional, there's a major difference between a clean hit, and deliberate