Anyone Listening to WoL?

[Michrome 0]

Dave asks him what TNA needs to succeed and he says....they need TV. Well, isn't that insightful and great. Sigh, wish there had been time for calls to ask him if there's any chance of them getting that, or at least ask some other interesting questions.

[Styles 0]

Dave asks him what TNA needs to succeed and he says....they need TV.  Well, isn't that insightful and great.  Sigh, wish there had been time for calls to ask him if there's any chance of them getting that, or at least ask some other interesting questions.

I was listening. Dave asked him about what TV people are saying about wrestling (since Jimmy has experience talking with them from XWF) and he says that they don't want a lot risque stuff and T&A (which is what they stereotype wrestling as), and they want to make sure the talent is signed. He also says they feel that wrestling doesn't deliver the 18-34 demographic like it used to, even though the ratings it draws is still better than most other programs...

[geniusMoment 0]

So they want the 18-34 demo but nothing risque, as well as no T&A. That is reason number five on my top ten list of reasons why television executives are idiots.

[Guest JMA]

T&A can be great if it isn't overexposed.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

HAH. TV execs are idiots. Jimmy's pet project failed because people dont want any of that family friendly bullshit. And yet, the execs dont want that either, but they also don't want everything that makes a successful promotion "un"family friendly No wonder there's no such thing as a NO#2 Promotion in the States

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

And yet 24, which show torture and such, is on TV...and yet Fear Factor, a show where people have to eat shit and different types of insects, is on TV...and yet NYPD Blue, which has shown an old fat man's bare ass and contains a healthy dosage of foul language, is on TV...should I continue?

[Styles 0]

I think it boils down to "any excuse we can find not to air wrestling because who watches that fake crap anyway even though it's been a ratings draw since the inception of TV..."

[Michrome 0]

TV stations don't like the modern stigma that comes along with wrestling (thanks Vince).

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

And yet produce countless "reality" shows that are even more risque and explicit than wrestling at its worst...well, not XPW bad, but that's not really "wrestling," is it?

[Guest MikeSC]

TV stations don't like the modern stigma that comes along with wrestling (thanks Vince).

Watch Cornette's shoot from 2000 --- where he discusses how much of a problem it was for him to find TV coverage for OVW (which is not close to controversial and does get WWF/E guys to appear every so often, so it has some star power).

 

Vince's product is NOT the problem. He had a hard time getting coverage in areas because of how bad the Sheik's show was in the 70's (A LOT of old wrestling programs were bad and horribly produced) --- that, and the fact that TV stations are too lazy to actually sell advertising on programming with growth potential and would rather spend their resources on syndicated re-runs.

 

Seems that people blame Vince for almost everything around these parts.

-=Mike

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Because many negatives CAN be attributed back to Vince...

[Guest MikeSC]

Because many negatives CAN be attributed back to Vince...

Such as?

 

It's not like the necrophilia crap happened back when the WWF was hot or anything.

 

Vince has done more to HELP the business than almost anybody else.

-=Mike

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Mae Young. Hand.

 

Big Show. Bossman.

 

Pepper. Bossman. Al Snow.

 

Degeneration X's constant lewd comments.

 

Regardless of the fact that some of these were actually quite good (well, just DX), they still didn't help generate a "no, wrestling is not dirty" opinion.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Vince has done more to HELP the business than almost anybody else.

-=Mike

People always seem to forget that. They want Vince to go away, but they don't realize that if there was no Vince, there'd be no wrestling.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

*Looks at Wrestling Industry*

 

Vince has... HELPED?

[Michrome 0]

Yes, Vince has really helped. He's helped turn it into a three ring circus and has eliminated the chance of people seeing great wrestling in America on TV anymore. You either have to find a good independent or get Japan to see anything real good these days. You know the guy has really helped when the most talented guys in the country sit and pray every day that they get picked up by Japan because they know that talent need not apply to the WWE.

[Guest MikeSC]

Mae Young. Hand.

 

Big Show. Bossman.

 

Pepper. Bossman. Al Snow.

 

Degeneration X's constant lewd comments.

 

Regardless of the fact that some of these were actually quite good (well, just DX), they still didn't help generate a "no, wrestling is not dirty" opinion.

As somebody pointed out, there is markedly worse out there. So, the "dirty" part of the equation is not why TV execs don't want wrestling.

 

It was because of how low it was viewed for years. Vince has always tried to make it more mainstream.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes, Vince has really helped. He's helped turn it into a three ring circus and has eliminated the chance of people seeing great wrestling in America on TV anymore. You either have to find a good independent or get Japan to see anything real good these days. You know the guy has really helped when the most talented guys in the country sit and pray every day that they get picked up by Japan because they know that talent need not apply to the WWE.

Hate to tell you, but "great matches on TV" were very much the exception to the rule for most of the history of the biz. WCW's Saturday night show on TBS was squash fest for DECADES --- so let's not begin to say that Vince has prevented "good wrestling" from appearing on TV.

 

You enjoy indies. Good for you. Most fans don't --- hence the reason they don't play nationally to big crowds.

 

Vince has done some harm. Killing off regional feds did hurt. BUT, he has made the business more mainstream than it ever was.

-=Mike

[Michrome 0]

If that's true, how do you explain the drop under Vince's reign of wrestling's national popularity from being one of America's favorite sports in polls to becoming the least favorite (dog sports don't count).

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

It's never been considered a "favorite" sport, per se. It just used to be a whole lot popular when the product was a whole lot better.

[Guest Burning Hammer]

I really hate having this poll about the worst "sport" that wrestling is near the top in. Look nobody considers wrestling a sport except for old crumudgony sports writers who hate just about everything and for some reason their opinion seems to matter on this subject. It isn't like the bulk of wrestling fans are hard core rabid sports fans either. Most wrestling fans don't like sports because they aren't exciting enough and the sports wrestling fans traditionally cross over into provide a lot of violence, like boxing and football. For those wrestling fans that love sports they know that wrestling is fake and just a form of entertainment not competition.

 

When wrestling was popular a few years ago nobody thought it was a sport then so I don't see why anybody would cite this poll as a reason for tv execs views on wrestling.

 

There is only one reason why tv people don't want wrestling. It isn't hot right now. That is it. They will air countless shitty reality programs that push the envelope of good taste farther than anything else in the history of television because its the hot thing. Yet when it comes to pro wrestling they say its to risque when it doesn't come even close to being as jaw droppingly voyeresque and repulsive as reality tv. Yet Pro wrestling on cable has provided better ratings more consistently than just about any other cable based reality tv show has.

 

For any idiot tv exec to think that wrestling is to risque to build up a good network look at TNT and TBS which were not considered low brow cable networks when they aired wrestling. They just helped to provide consistently good ratings for the channels so they could try and do other things. I know an extremely novel concept.

[Guest MikeSC]

If that's true, how do you explain the drop under Vince's reign of wrestling's national popularity from being one of America's favorite sports in polls to becoming the least favorite (dog sports don't count).

It has ALWAYS been viewed as such, hate to tell you.

-=Mike

[Guest TDinDC1112]

If that's true, how do you explain the drop under Vince's reign of wrestling's national popularity from being one of America's favorite sports in polls to becoming the least favorite (dog sports don't count).

It has ALWAYS been viewed as such, hate to tell you.

-=Mike

Give it up man. This thread is crazy. Don't waste your energy. For people to say that Vince McMahon has been bad for wrestling is beyond comprehensible. Vince made wrestling mainstream. WCW got the ax because a TV exec didn't want it on TV anymore. It had nothing to do with Vince. If there was no Vince, there'd be NO WRESTLING ON TV IN THE U.S.!

[Guest Loss]

Vince has made wrestling mainstream only by pandering to the lowest common denominator, using shock value to bring in ratings, marketing an adult product to children, indirectly supporting drug use by only pushing big men and, to be fair, through the rise of stars such as Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and the Rock. If the good outweighed the bad, there would have been more than three stars at that level over the past 20 years, quite frankly.

 

Vince has always presented a product that encourages short attention spans, lack of loyalty and fad-based pop culture than he has ever tried to present a product with any kind of long-term value. This should be evident by the fact that the WWF's ratings actually *dropped* when WCW went off the air when they realistically should have picked up a good chunk of that audience. WCW's audience was more of a sports audience, however, and this is why Vince may be able to flirt with mainstream acceptance every few years, but he can't ever actually become a fixture.

 

The NFL, NBA and baseball aren't cyclical, and the main reason for that is that they create their own stars instead of giving one media darling a mainstream push every ten years or so. If wrestling was presented as a product that fans wouldn't be embarrassed to watch with non-fans in the room, if more emphasis was placed on titles and athletics and there was more long-term storytelling involved, wrestling may be considered a mainstream sport or form of entertainment or whatever you want to call it.

 

But as long as the company follows trends instead of setting them, they will experience a high that lasts 2-4 years before cycling back down.

[Guest MikeSC]

Vince has made wrestling mainstream only by pandering to the lowest common denominator, using shock value to bring in ratings, marketing an adult product to children, indirectly supporting drug use by only pushing big men and, to be fair, through the rise of stars such as Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and the Rock. If the good outweighed the bad, there would have been more than three stars at that level over the past 20 years, quite frankly.

I'm sorry --- do you REMEMBER old-time wrestling? Pandered to utter racism and xenophobia. I suppose that's preferrable. And blaming Vince Jr. for steroid abuse is like blaming Vince Sr. for gluttony since he liked pushing fat guys.

Vince has always presented a product that encourages short attention spans, lack of loyalty and fad-based pop culture than he has ever tried to present a product with any kind of long-term value.

What long-term value was pushed by the old-school style?

This should be evident by the fact that the WWF's ratings actually *dropped* when WCW went off the air when they realistically should have picked up a good chunk of that audience. WCW's audience was more of a sports audience, however, and this is why Vince may be able to flirt with mainstream acceptance every few years, but he can't ever actually become a fixture.

At the end, WCW's audience was just mind-numbed zombies who watched out of habit.

The NFL, NBA and baseball aren't cyclical, and the main reason for that is that they create their own stars instead of giving one media darling a mainstream push every ten years or so.

Shall we go into the problems the NBA and MLB have in terms of attendance and ratings? WWE gets better ratings, on average, than both of them.

If wrestling was presented as a product that fans wouldn't be embarrassed to watch with non-fans in the room, if more emphasis was placed on titles and athletics and there was more long-term storytelling involved, wrestling may be considered a mainstream sport or form of entertainment or whatever you want to call it.

And have fans bitch and moan because the stories take too long to develop?

But as long as the company follows trends instead of setting them, they will experience a high that lasts 2-4 years before cycling back down.

The NBA has been on the decline for several seasons. MLB has been on the decline since about 1994. Cycles happen.

-=Mike

[Guest vicvenomjr]

MLB has been on the decline since about 1994. Cycles happen.

*****stick to what you know, baseball is currently the nation's second favorite sport. The McGwire/Sosa HR race brought baseball back and the Sox/Cubs moved it past basketball and in its best standing since the mid 80's, this past Oct.

 

Also I just got DVD's of the last 8 X-plosions. If you want to hear a dead crowd, listen to this show. Embarassingly quiet. If I was TNA I'd get out of Nashville ASAP, or at the very least the Fairgrounds. Anyone who just watched X-plosion, must think there are 30 fans there. The product is solid but the crowd just kills it. They should move into a new location every month, until they get it right. One month Florida, one month Philly, one month Chicago, one month somewhere in Calf., one month in middle america, one month in Mexico, one month in Australia etc., etc.

 

MISSY HYATTE=GENIUS

 

Also read Raven's comments about Michael Shane. Guess Shane's not that bad if the supreme genius of the biz, Raven, says he's solid. Told you all along.

[Kardo 0]

Also read Raven's comments about Michael Shane. Guess Shane's not that bad if the supreme genius of the biz, Raven, says he's solid. Told you all along.

Just because Raven says your good doesn't mean anything...

[Guest MikeSC]

MLB has been on the decline since about 1994. Cycles happen.

*****stick to what you know,

Pot, meet kettle.

baseball is currently the nation's second favorite sport.

Not if you go by ratings, attendance, merchandising, etc.

The McGwire/Sosa HR race brought baseball back and the Sox/Cubs moved it past basketball and in its best standing since the mid 80's, this past Oct.

A good postseason doesn't make it successful. Ratings are in the dumps.

Also I just got DVD's of the last 8 X-plosions. If you want to hear a dead crowd, listen to this show. Embarassingly quiet. If I was TNA I'd get out of Nashville ASAP, or at the very least the Fairgrounds. Anyone who just watched X-plosion, must think there are 30 fans there. The product is solid but the crowd just kills it. They should move into a new location every month, until they get it right. One month Florida, one month Philly, one month Chicago, one month somewhere in Calf., one month in middle america, one month in Mexico, one month in Australia etc., etc.

 

MISSY HYATTE=GENIUS

 

Also read Raven's comments about Michael Shane. Guess Shane's not that bad if the supreme genius of the biz, Raven, says he's solid. Told you all along.

Raven, then, is an idiot. Shane is nothing special. You can pluck any guy out of OVW and he'd do as good a job.

 

And, going national killed ECW. It'd kill TNA even faster.

 

I'd laugh at you, but this is just par for the course for you, vic.

-=Mike

[Guest vicvenomjr]

Just because Raven says your good doesn't mean anything...

*****by most accounts most say he's one of the more intelligent rassling minds out there. That is pretty much fact.

 

Not if you go by ratings, attendance, merchandising, etc.

*****Did you see the ratings for the AL/NLCS? Attendance is better than throughout the 90's. Also while merchandising figures are unknown, I've never seen more people wearing MLB hats. The baseball off-season this year has been bigger than the NFL season and much more so than the NBA. Much because of a simple trade proposal between the Sox and Rangers.

 

A good postseason doesn't make it successful. Ratings are in the dumps.

*****Are you serious? This just shows you don't know what your talking about. Look up the AL/NLCS numbers they were off the charts.

 

 

Raven, then, is an idiot. Shane is nothing special. You can pluck any guy out of OVW and he'd do as good a job.

*****So you know more than a woman who has spent her entire life in the biz and a man considered to be the smartest in the biz currently (outside of Crips).

 

And, going national killed ECW. It'd kill TNA even faster.

*****ECW got good ratings it was just that the advertising was never there.If WGN builds TNA up as a major part of their programming, they will get good ratings. If they don't the company should bail out of their contract.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Ladies and Gentleman, vicvenomjr must be Ted Turner, the only retard in the history of man kind to say "rassling". He also doesn't know shit about wrestling...(checks that), and wouldn't no talent if he had it under contract (vader sucks? Hogan better?! what!? Check again)