Kerry Says Dean Has No Chance Vs. Bush

[Guest Cerebus]

Kerry Says Dean Has No Chance Vs. Bush   

 

By STEPHEN FROTHINGHAM, Associated Press Writer

 

MANCHESTER, N.H. - With a month to go before the New Hampshire primary, John Kerry (news - web sites) made some of his strongest attacks yet against Democratic front-runner Howard Dean (news - web sites), portraying Dean as inexperienced in foreign policy, wrong-headed on the economy and a muddled thinker.

 

"People are left wondering: What will he say next?" said Kerry, addressing about 180 supporters in a city library auditorium.

 

"We need more than simple answers and the latest slip of the tongue," he said. "This election is too vital for us to lose it if voters refuse to take a gamble on national security and the steadiness of our leadership."

 

He pointed to Dean's statements on Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s capture and Dean's answer to a hypothetical question about where Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) should be tried, if captured.

 

"What kind of muddled thinking is it if you can't instantly say that in your heart you know that bin Laden is guilty?" Kerry asked. "After every episode comes a statement trying to explain it away. Will Americans really vote for a foreign policy by clarifying press release?"

 

The Massachusetts senator and Vietnam war veteran said "this is a perilous moment in history and we cannot master that moment with a stubborn unilateralism or a soft and vacillating isolationism."

 

Kerry, the early Democratic front-runner, now trails Dean by double digits in polls in New Hampshire — a state where Kerry has said he needs to finish No. 1 or No. 2 for his candidacy to have momentum.

 

Aides to Kerry note that Dean, the former Vermont governor, fares poorly against Bush in head-to-head matchups.

 

Kerry said "we can't beat George Bush by being Bush-lite," referring to Dean's criticism of more centrist Democratic candidates.

 

"But we also won't beat George Bush by being light on national security, light on fairness for middle-class Americans or light on the values that make us Democrats."

 

A spokesman for Sen. Joe Lieberman (news - web sites), who does not campaign on Saturday because of his Jewish religion, welcomed what he called "this latest iteration" of Kerry and said he "has stopped trying to pretend he is Howard Dean and is not trying to definite himself as an alternative." But spokesman Jano Cabrera said Kerry "is simply echoing many of the choices Lieberman laid out more than a week ago in New Hampshire."

 

Kerry also defended fellow Democratic hopefuls from some of Dean's campaign charges and claims.

 

"Howard Dean says he's the only candidate who talks about race in front of white audiences, but many of the candidates in this field have dedicated themselves to this cause," he said. He called Dean's claim an insult to the two blacks in the race, Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun.

 

Talking to reporters after his speech, Kerry stopped short of saying Dean was unelectable.

 

"All I'm trying to do is point out clear, real differences that matter to people who vote," he said.

 

What really amazes me is not Kerry's chutzpah, we're used to that, but the fact that national security and foreign policy, which before 9/11 was barley a blip on the radar when it came to presidential elections, is becoming make-or-break for canidates.

[Guest Anglesault]

I agree, to an extent.

 

Bush, while many people consider him to far to the right. is closer to the center than Dean is. Severe left wing guys scare the shit out of Americans just as much as severe right wing guys.

 

Bush will win if he faces Dean, basically because many people will see him as the lesser of two evils.

[BX 0]

 

Candidates talking shit about their rivals. Ground-breaking stuff, really.

 

But if Dean isn't our man, and with all his publicity and support, I think he is, if he isn't, then who will defeat Bush?

[Firestarter 0]

No one. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Highland 0]

Ironic that Bush owes bin Laden for his potential second term in office, since if it wasn't for 9/11, this would be a mediocre and forgetable presidency.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

You know, it almost sounds like Kerry is running against Dean for the Democratic ticket and is losing, and is thus saying Dean has no chance?

 

Anyways, Dean's comments that Kerry is referring to will not hurt Dean. Dean's support comes primarily from the "We hate Politics the way they are usually done" sector. He's managed to stage his campaign, in terms of the grassroots style it has gained momentum, as "Howard Dean vs. Politics." He's trying to tie into the "Politics Backlash." You know,t he kind of people who instantly assumes most politicians, regardless of left or right, are lying their asses off the moment they open their mouth.

 

(now obviously Dean si as much a politician as anyone else, but I'm just referring to the way his campaign is presented and seen among his supporters).

 

Attacks from the political sector, no matter how True they could be, will be seen as... well attacks from teh political sector. I think that he'll do a good job of reaching thsoe anti-politics people (you know, the majority of the citizens, that don't vote), but it wont be enough.

 

Someone who can build on Dean's tactics though, and do it right, will be able to roll to a 08 or 12 victory. Count on it.

[Guest BDC]

The question is, how motivated will these people be to vote, if at all?

[Justice 0]

Anyways, Dean's comments that Kerry is referring to will not hurt Dean. Dean's support comes primarily from the "We hate Politics the way they are usually done" sector. He's managed to stage his campaign, in terms of the grassroots style it has gained momentum, as "Howard Dean vs. Politics." He's trying to tie into the "Politics Backlash." You know,t he kind of people who instantly assumes most politicians, regardless of left or right, are lying their asses off the moment they open their mouth.

See, this is where he's going to have to kill himself. He's leaned out and bent over backwards to build this grass-roots left-wing support to get him through the primary. Problem is, to get elected, he's going to have to move way back towards the center. This is gonna mean he's going to have to drop that grass-roots support so he can appeal to a broader base, ruining this "I'm not your average politician" look. If he doesn't, he'll fail to garner the middle and lose the election. Dean has painted himself into a corner and there's no way he can get back out.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Well, his current supporters will vote for him, the hope seems to be to energize more non-voters to the point where they will vote for him.

I read this recent article where Dean is saying if someone else gets nominated, the whole 'surge of people re-energized at the grassroots level' are not going to vote for the other Dems and just stay home. I think that gives a little insight on to the type of people the Dean campaign is really trying to pick up. It's an attempt to build them up as Dean-ocrats rather than "Democrats." Despite all the hee hawing from people (who all seem to be people very involved in the normal way of politics), I do think its pretty daring, and as i said before, if someone can build on it, 08 or 12 could be a banner year for *somebody*. Or maybe not if everybody just reverts back to politics as usual

 

edit:

My impression is, the WAY DEAN sees it (not me), is that they see the majority of people who DO NOT VOTE no matter what... so trying to lean back to center in a genearl election, isn't going to do get these guys up off their couches, from his POV. He wants that non-voting majority. He seems to have confidence that he can energize them the way he did his current supporters. I aint so sure.. anyways, I'm not so much arguing why Dean is going to win or anythign (I dont) but moreso what I think they are thinking.

[Guest JMA]

I agree, to an extent.

 

Bush, while many people consider him to far to the right. is closer to the center than Dean is. Severe left wing guys scare the shit out of Americans just as much as severe right wing guys.

 

Bush will win if he faces Dean, basically because many people will see him as the lesser of two evils.

Eh, I see Kucinich being the REAL ultra-left guy. Doesn't Dean support the NRA?

[Justice 0]

I agree, to an extent.

 

Bush, while many people consider him to far to the right. is closer to the center than Dean is. Severe left wing guys scare the shit out of Americans just as much as severe right wing guys.

 

Bush will win if he faces Dean, basically because many people will see him as the lesser of two evils.

Eh, I see Kucinich being the REAL ultra-left guy. Doesn't Dean support the NRA?

Indeed he does, though gun-control has become less and less of an issue nowadays for politicians (imho). That, and his stance on Medicare makes up for that and more on the "Lefty scale".

 

Comrade Kucinich is in a league of his own, to be honest.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

No one. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

You really are counting on the 9/11 sympathy votes, aren't you?

 

 

Yes, Bush is surely such an AMAZING PUBLIC SPEAKER that he'll bust balls and kick ass on televised debates. Sorry, the only people who come off as dim as Bush are Clark, Sharpton, Braun, and (to an extent) Kucinich.

[Firestarter 0]

The President, interestingly, doesn't have to rely on cheap rhetorical tricks to win debates. He wins debates by being polite, serious, sincere, respectful, and engaging. He doesn't roll his eyes and sigh at his opponents, like Al Gore. He isn't smarmy. He isn't dishonest. He isn't careless with his words. He means what he says. He's a man of strength, conviction, integrity, wisdom, and resolve, and it comes through when people hear him speak.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The President, interestingly, doesn't have to rely on cheap rhetorical tricks to win debates.

Oh man, where to start?

 

He isn't careless with his words.

 

Excuse me? Did you see the same debate that I did? The man who talked about "Washington Fuzzy Math" all day long and then said he'd respond to an emergency by fighting Big Hollywood before getting that deer in the headlights look and asking what the question was about?

 

As I said in the Saddam capture thread, he can come off Presidential when reading a statement of short and to-the-point sentences then leaving. But if all those conditions aren't met (a debate, a Q&A where the questions haven't been pre-approved, a speech without a script) he displays what must be either performance anxiety or just stupidity, and looks like the understudy for a more charismatic person that was supposed to appear.

 

And although you're so positive he'll win, he sure does seem to be concerned to some extent. That is, to the extent of raising hundreds of millions for a primary where he has no opponent.

[Firestarter 0]

although you're so positive he'll win, he sure does seem to be concerned to some extent. That is, to the extent of raising hundreds of millions for a primary where he has no opponent

Yeah, because sitting back with a smug smile and not even trying to defeat one's opponents is a surefire winning strategy that's propelled any number of Presidents to the White House before.

 

You idiot.

[NoCalMike 0]

He isn't dishonest. He isn't careless with his words. He means what he says. He's a man of strength, conviction, integrity, wisdom, and resolve, and it comes through when people hear him speak.

LOL, come on, not dishonest......a man of wisdom? He may not be as dumb as some of us liberals claim, but the guy is a few marbles short. Not dishonest, wtf, he is a politician for christ's sake. I honestly think Bush will win again for the mere fact your average joe is going to turn on the news and see the image of Saddam being captured, and then vote for Bush, No questions asked.

[Guest Cerebus]

He isn't dishonest. He isn't careless with his words. He means what he says. He's a man of strength, conviction, integrity, wisdom, and resolve, and it comes through when people hear him speak.

LOL, come on, not dishonest......a man of wisdom? He may not be as dumb as some of us liberals claim, but the guy is a few marbles short. Not dishonest, wtf, he is a politician for christ's sake. I honestly think Bush will win again for the mere fact your average joe is going to turn on the news and see the image of Saddam being captured, and then vote for Bush, No questions asked.

Much like how they voted for Bush I in 92 after seeing the victorious troops come home no questions asked?

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

He isn't dishonest. He isn't careless with his words. He means what he says. He's a man of strength, conviction, integrity, wisdom, and resolve, and it comes through when people hear him speak.

LOL, come on, not dishonest......a man of wisdom? He may not be as dumb as some of us liberals claim, but the guy is a few marbles short. Not dishonest, wtf, he is a politician for christ's sake. I honestly think Bush will win again for the mere fact your average joe is going to turn on the news and see the image of Saddam being captured, and then vote for Bush, No questions asked.

Much like how they voted for Bush I in 92 after seeing the victorious troops come home no questions asked?

Good point. Just because the war in Iraq has been quite successful doesn't absolutely guarantee Bush's re-election. Improve his chances? Probably. But until the unemployment rate climbs down from the 6% mark it's been at for a while, the economy could be the thing that trips him up. I say wait until February to see if the economy really turns itself around; everybody spends during the holidays, which typically boosts it. Let's see if it's for real this time.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Yeah, because sitting back with a smug smile and not even trying to defeat one's opponents is a surefire winning strategy that's propelled any number of Presidents to the White House before.

 

You idiot.

It's not the money raising that's unusual, it's the sheer amount of it.

[Firestarter 0]

LOL, come on, not dishonest......a man of wisdom? He may not be as dumb as some of us liberals claim, but the guy is a few marbles short. Not dishonest, wtf, he is a politician for christ's sake.

General Powell begs to differ.

 

"This administration's public pronouncements... reflect the personality of the president himself, a man who, with great consistency, says what he means and means what he says."

[Guest MikeSC]

Ironic that Bush owes bin Laden for his potential second term in office, since if it wasn't for 9/11, this would be a mediocre and forgetable presidency.

Since when has utter mediocrity been a detriment to being re-elected President?

 

Geez, Clinton was re-elected, wasn't he?

-=Mike