Lennox Lewis to retire

[snuffbox 0]

no...its cool...i get what your saying.

 

but its also my opinion that lewis retiring and still able to speak and act with decency and intelligence is FAR more important to boxing than parading out the liks of holyfield(retarded man), tyson (black eye man), or the sad legacy of bowe(kidnap the wife/kids with a knife man).

 

and...Rocky Marciano retired with the title. His last fight was a come from behind stoppage of Archie Moore. Was he a pussy???

 

Ok, I was in due haste to your response and maybe I should correct myself. I don't think he's a pussy, per se, but that's not how it should be done. But that's just me.

 

I understand that him going out for those reasons and I mean, I'm totally fine with that. I just don't want anyone calling his legacy great if he lets his last match was where he gets whipped, has a stoppaged called, and then after waiting almost six months later to announce that "No, I'm not having a rematch" yet sort of go "Well, maybe". To me, that just isn't right and doesn't make you look like a great fighter or have a great legacy at all. A legacy yes. Great, no.

 

But that is more due to the fact that this is apart of who I am. If I have a 'match' with someone (not boxing, but you get what I mean) and I win, but pretty much get owned, I have a rematch to prove that I wasn't going to get my ass whipped if I hadn't caught a couple of breaks. It was just one of those things that became a part of myself when I grew up.

 

BTW, I'm not familiar with the Rocky Marciano and Archie Moore fight or post-match so I can't really comment. I just don't follow boxing as often as every other sport (due to I can't ever get PPV). Add in only 20 years of age for myself, and my boxing credentials are on thin ice due to my parents not being fans (hence no watching if ever). So please excuse a guy who just speaks his mind on a subject.

 

But a guy that commits rape and bites people's ears off is worthy of respect? I can't believe America still jerks off over Tyson. Lewis'  only crime is not giving Klitchko a rematch and being an arrogant prick.

Yeah, god damn he's a pussy because he didn't want to spend his post boxing years as a punch drunk vegetable like Ali.

 

Never ever quote two people and make it seem like both people speak the same thing. I don't apprecitate you sticking words in my mouth like "I jerk off to Tyson", because I never liked Tyson.

 

As I said previous, it is a personal reason that I don't care for Lewis and I don't respect him. I replied in due haste that made my post a little harsher than I had planned.

 

I understand about the veggi state thing, but from who I became, I can't stand someone backing out of what should be. I say should, because it will now never happen.

 

lightning filk...i have no problems with your opinion. its yours, your free to say it, and you didnt act like its the gospel. thats cool...and i get where your coming from on the lennox situation.

[snuffbox 0]

But who did Rocky have left to fight?  Besides, with his style, he couldn't keep fighting forever.

Moore again, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Eddie Machen, maybe a Ruiz-level guy like Tom McNeely.

Patterson and Liston weren't top contenders at that point in 1955. Patterson was competing at light heavyweight, and I have no reason to think Marciano wouldn't have beat him anyway. Eddie Machen debuted in 1955. And there was no point in giving Moore a rematch.

the next fight for the heavy title was....Floyd vs. Archie. Floyd won.

 

Marciano nearly came out of retirement for Liston, but thankfully didnt.

 

Another he could have fought - Joey Maxim.

 

point - a fighter cant fight everyone, Lennox deserves a nice retirement.

The difference is that Rocky didn't have a big fight looking him right in the face.

 

Its hard to fault Lewis, as ultimately this is the smart decision for him. But for fans of boxing, this is the worst possible scenario.

thats a good point...but he could have given archie a rematch.

 

archie had rocky down and nearly out in their fight and was on his way to possible victory when the rock scored another come from behind knockout. kinda like the vitali fight...only rocky was in far greater danger of losing than lennox ever was.

 

boxing fans will do just fine...its not like lennox was our lord and savior anyway. now guys like mesi, guinn, gomez, levin, audley, oquendo, toney, byrd, klits, etc can all have the opportunities to step and all fight to be #1.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

I'm sorry, I really don't see how anyone can defend Lewis.

 

He's leaving with a very big loose end untied. Sure it was TKO 6, but it deserves an * by it.

 

*=was down on the score cards, until fight was stopped for a cut.

 

The way I see it is that Lewis finally gets a worthy contender who's proven he can hold his own against him, and the match ends on questionable circumstances with no real answers. So what does Lewis do...run away. Real class act, and something that I would exepect from a great boxer.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Thank you Coffin.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Yes Coffin. Thanks for explaning how I feel about it and why I can't accept Lewis having any respect for just walking away without any chance of clearing that up.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I'm not realy defending Lennow Lewis, but I can understand where he's coming from. He's getting old and I can imagine it being harder to stay motivated to train for big fights anymore. If he knocked Klitchsko out, everyone would still have someone who they think can beat Lewis. If he lost the fight, people would call him a pussy if he didn't fight a third time. There's always going to be a fight that people think he should take. I hate Lennox just as much as the next man, but who REALLY thinks Klitschko is a better fighter than him? Rahman knocked Lennox out but you would be a fool to say that he's in the same league as Lennox. The reason why Rahman beat Lennox the first time was because Lennox wasn't motivated for the fight. He was out of shape and was expecting a cake walk of a fight. Who really thinks Lennox was prepared for the fight against Klitschko? I don't. Lennox Lewis won his last fight. You don't have to like the way he did it, but he did it.

[snuffbox 0]

why arent you guys clamoring for Vitali Klit. to take a rematch with Chris Byrd? You know, the guy he quit on his stool against.

[Lightning Flik 0]

why arent you guys clamoring for Vitali Klit. to take a rematch with Chris Byrd? You know, the guy he quit on his stool against.

*shrugs* Because, most likely now that the Heavyweight Title is vacant, we will probably see that single matchup for the title. No reason to bring it up, since it'll probably happen.

 

If it doesn't, somewhere down the road it will.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

why arent you guys clamoring for Vitali Klit. to take a rematch with Chris Byrd? You know, the guy he quit on his stool against.

...

 

Because he's not the champion?

 

Once Vitali wins the title...Byrd should be the #1 person on his title defense list.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Byrd should be clamoring to face Wladimir again. Right?

 

If Wlad didn't beat him so badly and all. I think Byrd lost every round in that fight.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

The point is...only one of these fighters is retiring...and only one is the Champion.

 

Before the Vitali fight...Lewis could have walked away head held high.

 

After that fight...there is a CLEAR and UNANIMOUS #1 contender for his title for the first time...virtually in his entire career as champion.

 

He was booed, he's been challenged, fans everywhere want to know who's better...

 

and he chooses NOW to walk away...

 

To look at what it says in the record books is to turn your head to the actual story here.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

thats a good point...but he could have given archie a rematch.

 

archie had rocky down and nearly out in their fight and was on his way to possible victory when the rock scored another come from behind knockout. kinda like the vitali fight...only rocky was in far greater danger of losing than lennox ever was.

 

boxing fans will do just fine...its not like lennox was our lord and savior anyway. now guys like mesi, guinn, gomez, levin, audley, oquendo, toney, byrd, klits, etc can all have the opportunities to step and all fight to be #1.

 

With Marciano/Moore, it wasn't as if the fight was all that close. Marciano knocked Moore down five times, and unlike Lewis, Rock won clean, with the challenger being counted out. Besides, if Rocky gave rematches every time a fighter knocked him down, he'd still be fighting today.

 

As for boxing fans, I have no worries about the boxers themselves. I worry about the system. Through the last 25 years of bullshit sanction politics and paper champions, boxing always had the linear championship. You could trace it back to the day Patterson KO'd Moore. And now that's gone, and it may be a long time before we see another undisputed champion. I'll address that in my next post.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Because he's not the champion?

 

Once Vitali wins the title...Byrd should be the #1 person on his title defense list.

 

I think Chris Byrd is the #1 heavyweight in the world right now. Besides Wlad, the only fighter he lost to was Ike Ibeabuchi, and Ike might have been better than any of the current heavyweights today (he was incarcerated for rape after the Byrd fight, and his career is all but over). Byrd holds victories over Vitali, Fres Oquendo, Evander Holyfield, and Ross Purrity (who beat Wlad Klitschko). And he's never been knocked out. The only other fighter with a championship claim is Vitali, and Byrd beat him. I think Vitali and Byrd should fight, and the winner is declared the new undisputed champion. Its the simplist idea, and the most effective.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Vitali vs. Byrd would probably be the best fight for the title now...

 

but Byrd isn't a top contender for that version.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

What title? The WBC version?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Do you think they'll bother trying to deal with the politics of the other alphabet titles to crown the champion?

 

even if they wanted too...Jones Jr. won't do it.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Like I've been saying, fuck the alphabet organizations. Pretend they don't even exist.

 

We have Ring Magazine and USA Today. If Byrd and Vitali were to fight, they would declare one of them the true champion. End of controversey.

[snuffbox 0]

Like I've been saying, fuck the alphabet organizations. Pretend they don't even exist.

 

We have Ring Magazine and USA Today. If Byrd and Vitali were to fight, they would declare one of them the true champion. End of controversey.

Definitly. The ABC's can teabag my nuts...they do alot more damage to the sport than a man retiring does. Bad fights, controversy, mismatches etc. yea, definitly go with Ring/USA Today

[Coffin Surfer 0]

"I'm not realy defending Lennow Lewis, but I can understand where he's coming from. He's getting old and I can imagine it being harder to stay motivated to train for big fights anymore. "

 

I can understand where he's coming from too, I wouldn't want to risk retiring on a loss too, but this is boxing where winning and losing is part of the game. While I can't read his mind, I think the possibility of going out with a loss is his problem, not motivation.

 

"There's always going to be a fight that people think he should take."

 

Of course, but not all of them are boxers he has unfinished business with. I really don't see how anyone can say that Klitschko doesn't deserve a rematch.

 

 

"I hate Lennox just as much as the next man, but who REALLY thinks Klitschko is a better fighter than him? "

 

Judging from the fight, I think he is a better fighter as of right now. Kilitschko has had his problems in the past, but lately he's appeared to really step it up. I don't think the the Klitschko from a few years ago was nearly as aggressive or dominating as the one that just knocked out Kirk Johnson. It's really up in the air though, and until they fight(which doesn't appear to be likely), we'll never know. Which oddly enough is the point.

 

"Who really thinks Lennox was prepared for the fight against Klitschko? I don't.

 

Do you really Lewis would have stepped into the ring with Kiltschko if he didn't think he was prepared? And if Lewis wasn't motivated, than it's his own damn fault, it's no excuse. I would say motivation is a big attribute to a fighter, if he lacks it than it should be counted against him, not used as an excuse.

 

If he lost to Rahman, because he wasn't prepared. Well shit, that means on that night, Rahman was the better fighter. Though the real reason he lost was because he dropped his arms, and ate a rigth hand.

 

"Lennox Lewis won his last fight. You don't have to like the way he did it, but he did it."

 

That's the sad truth, and shit like this is the reason the sport has fallen like it has.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Another problem is that it seems like Lewis was awaiting the winner of the Johnson-Vitali fight to see if he was going to retire. I'm fairly certain that if it would have been Kirk, Lennox would have taken the money and laid a beating. However, Vitali dominated and Lennox retires.

[Guest thetrendsetter]

But Kirk Johnson isn't exactly world title material, as he's proven time and time again, especially after showing up 20 pounds overweight... He's nothing but a journeyman at best, and I'm from his home city (Halifax).

 

Regardless, at 38 years old, Lewis shouldn't have anything more to prove. His skills obviously deterioated in his last fight, where he barely got by Klitschko, why come back when you know full well you're going to lose.

 

It doesn't make you a man to come back, if it's going to piss on his image, and make him look like a chump for a good payday, and full well, that's what the other side of the spectrum would have said had he come back and gotten destroyed.

 

Maybe I'm being mistaken in what I said earlier. I don't believe at this stage of his career, Lewis could beat Kilitschko, but I don't see how it makes him less of a man to walk away, after having fought Kilitschko.

 

Remember, say what you will... Lewis didn't beat Kiltischko, he won on a semi-dubious call to stop the fight because of blood loss... But Lewis didn't have to be Kilitschko, because he was the CHAMPION... Kilitschko had to beat Lewis, and cut and dice the facts however you want, Kilitschko was unable to beat Lewis.

 

Lewis got away with his title, whether or not it was by the skin of his teeth is up for debate, regardless, he didn't lose to kilitschko, and shouldn't be required to do fuck all if he doesn't want to.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Keep in mind Byrd's victory over Vitali was when the big man ripped a rotator cuff (if memory serves me). Can't fight if you can't punch. I think Byrd would've started crying if it happened to him, but he doesn't hit hard enough to injure his own arm. I'd LOVE to see a Vit./Byrd rematch, because Klitschko would eat him for lunch now. The big man is HUNGRY, I tell ya.

 

McCline, Tua, and those folks don't have too much claim, I don't think.

 

My contender's list is as follows: Vit, Wlad, Byrd, Sanders, and Tyson.

 

Some might question the Tyson choice, and for good reason, but the fact of the matter is the guy STILL has powderkegs for arms, and is totally capable of knocking the block off of any other active heavyweight. I can't totally overlook the guy given that fact.

 

The Jones omission is because he's essentially fighting heavies as an experiment, and would NOT perform well against a hoss like a Klitschko or a Lewis.

 

ANYWAY, I'll agree with Al's pick of Byrd/V. Klitschko.

 

...but if you ask me, the REAL money fight in the heavyweight division now is Vit vs. Wlad, but that ain't gonna happen.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Vitali Klitschko and Corrie Sanders are negotiating for a fight, possibly April 24th. If this fight occurs, Ring Magazine will recognize the winner as the World Heavyweight Champion.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

At least there's a somewhat intriguing storyline to that fight. Not that the casual boxing fan could give two shits about Corrie Sanders.

[snuffbox 0]

At least there's a somewhat intriguing storyline to that fight. Not that the casual boxing fan could give two shits about Corrie Sanders.

I think his huge win over Wlad(a very highly rated fight for HBO) would certainly give him a solid amount of recognizability. Hes probably not quite as 'big' as a Byrd or a Tua or a Tyson in name value but I think this is a fair fight for Heavyweight Championship of the World.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The sad thing is I had heard of him long before the Wlad fight. I think. Its tricky because there is a Corey Sanders as well, also a heavyweight.

[snuffbox 0]

The sad thing is I had heard of him long before the Wlad fight. I think. Its tricky because there is a Corey Sanders as well, also a heavyweight.

You may have seen him lose a fairly entertaining fight to Hasim Rachman on HBO boxing after dark several years ago...

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I actually remember him from the boxing mags when I read them religiously in 96/97. Nothing spectacular about him, and I was frankly surprised he was still around.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

The top 15, according to BoxRec.com

 

http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php

 

1. Wladimir Klitschko

2. Byrd (IBF Champion)

3. Tyson

4. Vitali

5. Toney

6. Juan Carlos Gomez

7. Joe Mesi

8. David Tua

9. John Ruiz (WBA Heavyweight Champion, defeated Rahman)

10. Jameel McCline

11. Corrie Sanders (WBO Champion)

12. Andrew Golota

13. Kirk Johnson

14. Dominick Quinn

15. Evander Holyfield

 

Rahman is #25, below such guys as Atilla "The Hun" Levin

 

The undefeateds in the top 30: Gomez, Mesi and Quinn. Audley Harrison is #31 and 14-0.

 

I'd personally match Wlad or Vitali against Byrd for the title. And if Byrd can't be secured, then put one of the Klitschkos against Juan Carlos Gomez

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Those ratings are terrible. Take a look at Juan Carlos Gomez's record. He's never fought a top 10 fighter. Ditto for Joe Mesi. And as much love as Toney gets, he's only fought one heavyweight, who was 40 at the time.