Malcolm X......

[NoCalMike 0]

So I just got done watching the movie for the first time in a loooooong time, and I think the movie kind of keeps it open for speculation, and since I haven't read up on any bigoraphys of him or anything, I was just wondering if anyone here knew what the common theory was. I couldn't decide to put this in current events or movies.....but maybe I chose wrong since it isn't a CURRENT event, but it is black history month, so I guess this is somewhat current......umm ah...ye.....

[Vern Gagne 0]

Elijah Muhammed was the man behind Malcom X's assassination.

[NoCalMike 0]

Elijah Muhammed was the man behind Malcom X's assassination.

Ok that is the vibe I got from the movie, but I wasn't sure if that was like Spike Lee using the movie to express his opinion on it, or if it was Lee following all the true events. So Elijha Muhammed was THAT pissed for Malcolm leaving the nation?

[Guest MikeSC]

So I just got done watching the movie for the first time in a loooooong time, and I think the movie kind of keeps it open for speculation, and since I haven't read up on any bigoraphys of him or anything, I was just wondering if anyone here knew what the common theory was. I couldn't decide to put this in current events or movies.....but maybe I chose wrong since it isn't a CURRENT event, but it is black history month, so I guess this is somewhat current......umm ah...ye.....

1) WHY would you watch it? Horrible movie. If you want definitive proof that Spike Lee is a talentless hack, watch that movie (if you want proof that he's racist, watch "He Got Game"). Only Lee could make a film about Malcolm X long and dull. He is Ed Wood with less talent and less of a "lovable loser" persona.

 

2) The Nation of Islam killed him. He split with the group and, well, they didn't like that too much. That is pretty much the case, from everything I've ever heard about it.

 

3) If you want a good conspiracy theory: Merchandisers killed him. They saw the fortune that "X" hats would make in the future and figured Malcolm as a martyr would be a stronger seller.

-=Mike

...He hadn't denounced his old views prior to his death enough to really keep the "Kill Whitey!" set from buying them

[Vern Gagne 0]

The last few years of Malcom X's life he had become more moderate in his believes. That, and many leaders of Nation of Islam had numerous mistresses and illegitmate children they didn't support. MX thought this went against Islam. So he left the group.

[Papacita 0]

A lot of evidence points to the CIA being in on the murder. I doubt that Elijah and Farrahkhan themselves were in on the murder, because the finger would've been (and was) pointed squarely at them as soon as he was assassinated. There were a lot of corrupt people in the Nation who were jealous of Malcolm, and the group was highly infiltrated by the government in the civil rights era, so it's really open debate there.

[ant_7000 0]

I figured Mike wouldn't like the movie or X. Denzel got rob of an Oscar for that performance. Spike is a hit and miss director, But the NOI, Farrakahn in particular killed Malcolm IMO. CIA might had something do with X's murder as well, since were keeping tabs on him.

[Vern Gagne 0]

A lot of evidence points to the CIA being in on the murder. I doubt that Elijah and Farrahkhan themselves were in on the murder, because the finger would've been (and was) pointed squarely at them as soon as he was assassinated. There were a lot of corrupt people in the Nation who were jealous of Malcolm, and the group was highly infiltrated by the government in the civil rights era, so it's really open debate there.

The fingers been pointing for 39 years. So far the Nation of Islam hasn't been charged with anything. I'd say the CIA really didn't care that the NOI killed Malcom X.

[BX 0]

Aww, it was dull, Mike? Not enough explosions and car chases through a subway tube for you?

[Vern Gagne 0]

He didn't like the movie. What the hell is the big deal about that.

[BX 0]

How can you spice up a movie about a man's life? A drama, at that? I can accept him not liking the movie (Hell, I expect that from Mike), but to say it was dull just seems stupid to me.

[Papacita 0]

A lot of evidence points to the CIA being in on the murder.  I doubt that Elijah and Farrahkhan themselves were in on the murder, because the finger would've been (and was) pointed squarely at them as soon as he was assassinated.  There were a lot of corrupt people in the Nation who were jealous of Malcolm, and the group was highly infiltrated by the government in the civil rights era, so it's really open debate there.

The fingers been pointing for 39 years. So far the Nation of Islam hasn't been charged with anything. I'd say the CIA really didn't care that the NOI killed Malcom X.

It's possible. One reason I tend to disagree with it though is the level of influence that the Nation had in black communities. Elijah especially would have to know that to kill Malcolm would be a huge blow to the Nation and turn a lot of blacks away. I can't see him sacrificing his community influence over a petty grudge. He cared about how the community perceived him, which is evidenced by his suspending Malcolm after he made his "chickens come to roost" comment following Kennedy's assassination. Also, I believe his health was beginning to fail around this time, so he might not have even had the faculties to order the hit. I'm not totally sure about that last one, so don't quote me on that.

 

I'm a lot less sure about Farrakhan though. One thing a lot of historians point to is Farrakhan's publicly saying "Malcolm should die" for betraying Elijah shortly before the assassination. Some see it as evidence of his involvement, while others say that it gave the government the out they needed to hit Malcolm. I tend to believe the latter, simply given the political climate of the country in the time period, but I dunno. I do find it a little suspicious that he came into so much money between then and the Nation's revival in the 80's. Anything's possible.

[Vyce 0]

I figured Mike wouldn't like the movie or X. Denzel got rob of an Oscar for that performance.

And Russell Crowe got robbed for not getting the Oscar for "A Beautiful Mind." What's your point?

[NoCalMike 0]

I figured Mike wouldn't like the movie or X. Denzel got rob of an Oscar for that performance.

And Russell Crowe got robbed for not getting the Oscar for "A Beautiful Mind." What's your point?

but that was only because he won it when he didn't deserve it for Gladiator, which was only to make up for him not getting it for The Insider......

[ant_7000 0]

I figured Mike wouldn't like the movie or X. Denzel got rob of an Oscar for that performance.

And Russell Crowe got robbed for not getting the Oscar for "A Beautiful Mind." What's your point?

I mentioned it because the Movie was brought up, and I felt that should've won the oscar. I don't know if Elijah himself put out the hit on Malcolm since he was sick at the time I believe, even Betty Shabazz believe Farrakhan killed Malcolm. NOI had alot to lose after Malcolm exposed them for being hypocrites, NOI was scared that would lose their influence on the black community.

[Guest MikeSC]

Aww, it was dull, Mike? Not enough explosions and car chases through a subway tube for you?

Spike needs an editor to trim the tons of fat from his movies. Malcolm was a big one with that problem. A fascinating life should never result in a horribly dull and tedious biopic.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

1) WHY would you watch it? Horrible movie. If you want definitive proof that Spike Lee is a talentless hack, watch that movie (if you want proof that he's racist, watch "He Got Game"). Only Lee could make a film about Malcolm X long and dull. He is Ed Wood with less talent and less of a "lovable loser" persona.

You really do have a flair for melodrama dont you??

[Guest MikeSC]

1) WHY would you watch it? Horrible movie. If you want definitive proof that Spike Lee is a talentless hack, watch that movie (if you want proof that he's racist, watch "He Got Game"). Only Lee could make a film about Malcolm X long and dull. He is Ed Wood with less talent and less of a "lovable loser" persona.

You really do have a flair for melodrama dont you??

It was a horrid movie. I'd kill to see "Malcom X" directed by a competent director.

 

That being said, yes, Denzel was screwed. I suppose that his Oscar for the blah "Training Day" was a make-up for that oversight.

 

I feel Spike is racist (in "He Got Game", one of his characters said, basically "White girls give it up for nothing. Black girls make you work for it." A little racist, no?) and that his films are, universally, rather bad.

 

Why he's the most prominent black director is beyond me as he clearly is not the most talented.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

I just think saying that Ed F'ing Wood is a better director is just a little ridiculous

 

And he may be racist, but I dont care... the line in He Got Game is funny

[Guest MikeSC]

I just think saying that Ed F'ing Wood is a better director is just a little ridiculous

 

And he may be racist, but I dont care... the line in He Got Game is funny

Funny, if somebody said blacks girl were whores, I doubt it'd be looked on as being humorous. Even more ironic, the line wasn't meant to be funny.

 

Ed Wood's films are more amusing. They're so bad they're funny. Spike's films are just plain bad. Unrelenting tedium.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

I just think saying that Ed F'ing Wood is a better director is just a little ridiculous

 

And he may be racist, but I dont care... the line in He Got Game is funny

Funny, if somebody said blacks girl were whores, I doubt it'd be looked on as being humorous. Even more ironic, the line wasn't meant to be funny.

 

Ed Wood's films are more amusing. They're so bad they're funny. Spike's films are just plain bad. Unrelenting tedium.

-=Mike

Well, the 25th Hour was pretty good, so I dont think Lee is a horrible director... just more of a hit or miss... not Ed Wood, but definitely not Scorsese

 

As for racism in films... I dont know. I agree it's probably there sometimes, I just dont make an issue out of it depending on the context... if a movie is blatantly racist and made as a way to completely degrade a certain race, like Birth of a Nation for example, then yes, thats wrong... but if a movie is just presenting a viewpoint in a certain context designed to inform the viewers of that, then I dont have a problem with it... basically, if it's racist propaganda, then you have a point

[Guest MikeSC]

I just think saying that Ed F'ing Wood is a better director is just a little ridiculous

 

And he may be racist, but I dont care... the line in He Got Game is funny

Funny, if somebody said blacks girl were whores, I doubt it'd be looked on as being humorous. Even more ironic, the line wasn't meant to be funny.

 

Ed Wood's films are more amusing. They're so bad they're funny. Spike's films are just plain bad. Unrelenting tedium.

-=Mike

Well, the 25th Hour was pretty good, so I dont think Lee is a horrible director... just more of a hit or miss... not Ed Wood, but definitely not Scorsese

 

As for racism in films... I dont know. I agree it's probably there sometimes, I just dont make an issue out of it depending on the context... if a movie is blatantly racist and made as a way to completely degrade a certain race, like Birth of a Nation for example, then yes, thats wrong... but if a movie is just presenting a viewpoint in a certain context designed to inform the viewers of that, then I dont have a problem with it... basically, if it's racist propaganda, then you have a point

My view on racism in films is this:

 

If it wouldn't be acceptable should the races be reversed, then I have a problem with it.

-=Mike

[ant_7000 0]

1) WHY would you watch it? Horrible movie. If you want definitive proof that Spike Lee is a talentless hack, watch that movie (if you want proof that he's racist, watch "He Got Game"). Only Lee could make a film about Malcolm X long and dull. He is Ed Wood with less talent and less of a "lovable loser" persona.

You really do have a flair for melodrama dont you??

It was a horrid movie. I'd kill to see "Malcom X" directed by a competent director.

 

That being said, yes, Denzel was screwed. I suppose that his Oscar for the blah "Training Day" was a make-up for that oversight.

 

I feel Spike is racist (in "He Got Game", one of his characters said, basically "White girls give it up for nothing. Black girls make you work for it." A little racist, no?) and that his films are, universally, rather bad.

 

Why he's the most prominent black director is beyond me as he clearly is not the most talented.

-=Mike

About that line, as a former HS athlete and being around star athletes back in high and some people in college that I know say its true. I mean every star in any sport are gonna have groupies not matter of race, but white girls tend to throw themselves at black athletes more than black women just because they're good at their sport and they think that if a brotha have potential to go pro, they don't wanna miss out. How can Spike can be racist when he made the 25th Hour, and usually cast Italians in his movies.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Just rent Do The Right Thing, and your doubts about Spike Lee being occasionally brilliant should be washed away pretty quickly. Fantastic stuff...and not racist, either.

[Ripper 0]

First of all, while it isn't exactly true that white women are easier than black women when you are a athelete, i have met plenty of athletes that believe this to be true, so Spike MIGHT have been just presenting the opinion of some people thorough Rick fox's character (as a matter of fact, he made a point to include all women of different colors in the drug dealers diatribe about how women will come after Jesus for money).

 

Now that isn't to say that Spike Lee is a racist mysogynist, that just isn't the best example.

 

Spike Lee is incredible at camera work and directing, he just sucks as a writer. Well, thats my opinon on the thing.

[ant_7000 0]

^Damn Ripper I thought you was locked up for a doing a white chick in GA.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I just think saying that Ed F'ing Wood is a better director is just a little ridiculous

 

And he may be racist, but I dont care... the line in He Got Game is funny

Funny, if somebody said blacks girl were whores, I doubt it'd be looked on as being humorous. Even more ironic, the line wasn't meant to be funny.

 

Ed Wood's films are more amusing. They're so bad they're funny. Spike's films are just plain bad. Unrelenting tedium.

-=Mike

Well, the 25th Hour was pretty good, so I dont think Lee is a horrible director... just more of a hit or miss... not Ed Wood, but definitely not Scorsese

 

As for racism in films... I dont know. I agree it's probably there sometimes, I just dont make an issue out of it depending on the context... if a movie is blatantly racist and made as a way to completely degrade a certain race, like Birth of a Nation for example, then yes, thats wrong... but if a movie is just presenting a viewpoint in a certain context designed to inform the viewers of that, then I dont have a problem with it... basically, if it's racist propaganda, then you have a point

My view on racism in films is this:

 

If it wouldn't be acceptable should the races be reversed, then I have a problem with it.

-=Mike

Did that line come out of Spike Lee's mouth? No, it came out of a character in the movie.

 

Does every character in the movie represent Spike's personal beliefs? No, they represent their own fictitious ones.

 

Is Edward Norton a racist for doing what he did in the grocery star in "American History X"? Is Tony Kaye? No, they're playing characters, who probably do exist in real life, but aren't necessarily DIRECTLY a viewpoint on the part of the director. There may be some underlying message that is trying to be put across, but it's in a certain context and is displayed through events rather than dialogue.

 

About the movie, I always found it funny that Denzel won for TD since he didn't win for Malcolm X. I thought Denzel was better in it than Russel in Beautiful Mind, but I liked Guy Pearce in Memento more than the both of them, although that probably has more to do with that movie being jaw droppingly awesome as opposed to anything else.

 

I haven't done much research on it, so I can't really say who his killers were, but I would assume that it's NOI. From what is known black people shot him, and there weren't many black people in the CIA at the time. Also, I doubt it was his ex-hoodlum buddies since they would've shot him much longer before that if they really wanted to.

[Ripper 0]

The Training Day win was a payback for him Russell Crowe winning for Gladiator when anyone with taste knew that Denzels performance in Hurricane trumped it.

 

I still think that Ewan Mcgregor(sp?) in Moulin Rouge was the man who got robbed that year.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

The Training Day win was a payback for him Russell Crowe winning for Gladiator when anyone with taste knew that Denzels performance in Hurricane trumped it.

 

I still think that Ewan Mcgregor(sp?) in Moulin Rouge was the man who got robbed that year.

Yeah, I figured it was a way of them apologizing, although I still think it's funny, in that they basically admitted that they were wrong.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

"Your Paragon of Virtue" Sums up my thougts. Reading this thread, I was about to post basicly what he said, but you beat me to it. Well put.

 

As for Spike Lee's skills. He's a very solid director and writer. 25th Hour, Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing, He Got Game, Summer of Sam, Clockers, and X are all good to very good movies. SOS, and 25th Hour being my favorites. I don't think he sucks at all.