"Heaven and Hell" by Black Sabbath

[pochorenella 0]

"Last in Line" is my favorite Dio song. Deliciously cheesy.

Pretty good song, but my favorite has to be "Rainbow in the Dark".

 

Dio was a very powerful singer, no doubt, but other than Heaven and Hell his work doesn't match what Ozzy did with Sabbath, like the Black Sabbath and Paranoid albums.

 

And his solo stuff? Blizzard of Ozz is so much better than Holy Diver it's scary. It's not that I don't like Dio, I happen to still own that live concert VHS release he had from about 20 years back, and it's not a bad show. He's a terrific singer and Vivian Campbell could really go back then, only the drummer and bassist I thought were shit.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Sub thread: I once heard this song, which may or may not have been Dio, though probably was. It still might be the worst song ever written, and is notable for this IMMENSELY horrific vocal breakdown that goes "Listen to the man, listen to the wise man," and then "Now I Know," becoming this sort of modern day buttrock madrigal in parts. It's REALLY fuckin' long, too. Anyone know if this is Dio, and what song?

 

That would be Queen, "The Prophet's Song."

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

If that is indeed the song, I could kiss you. I'm about to check.

[DMann2003 0]

Sub thread: I once heard this song, which may or may not have been Dio, though probably was. It still might be the worst song ever written, and is notable for this IMMENSELY horrific vocal breakdown that goes "Listen to the man, listen to the wise man," and then "Now I Know," becoming this sort of modern day buttrock madrigal in parts. It's REALLY fuckin' long, too. Anyone know if this is Dio, and what song?

Asshole, that's "The Prophet's Song" by Queen. That song is great, with a great solo by Brian May. It's better than "Bohemian Rhapsody" damnitt. You will "listen to the wise man!!!!" AoO.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I only heard it once. I love the song, but it's still the most overblown thing I've EVER heard. I was being really mean to it a year ago, but that was on one listen.

[cabbageboy 0]

Ok let's back up a second. What is this shit about Sabbath's first 4 albums being the only ones that are any good? Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on a remastered CD is really awesome, and Sabotage might well be in my top 3 Sabbath albums (I think Ozzy considers it their best album). I even kinda like Never Say Die but it's not really sustained.

 

Dio perhaps technically has a better voice than Ozzy but I don't really like him all that much. He's just too campy and cheesy for my taste, too Dungeons and Dragons. The first half of the Heaven and Hell album is fine, but by the 2nd half I was bored with Dio's over the top wailing. Also, he just doesn't seem like Sabbath....on his albums with the band they were forced into sounding like him rather than him sounding like Sabbath.

[AboveAverage484 0]

"Heaven and Hell" is still a great album in its own right. Can't touch "Paranoid", but still good.

[Slickster 0]

Ok let's back up a second. What is this shit about Sabbath's first 4 albums being the only ones that are any good? Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on a remastered CD is really awesome, and Sabotage might well be in my top 3 Sabbath albums (I think Ozzy considers it their best album). I even kinda like Never Say Die but it's not really sustained.

"Never Say Die" is one of my top two favorite Sabbath albums. It is more of a blues-oriented, less doom-and-gloom sound, but I think it works out well. "Hard Road," "Shock Wave," and "Air Dance" are among Ozzy-era Sabbath's best tracks, in my opinion.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I rate Sabbath quality in the following manner: A massive groundbreak career peak for everyone involved with the debut, then Paranoid which is a totally different album but still equally "good." I prefer the first one, though.

 

From that point on, they lose a step or two with every consecutive album, hitting a total nadir with TYR. I haven't listened to anything past that other than Dehumanizer, which doesn't matter to me in any way. My interest in the band is waning at best after most of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on a good day. Sabotage had "Symptom of the Universe," so at least there's that. I don't think the rest was too memorable.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Well, Sabbath's first album has the title track, "N.I.B.", "The Wizard", and well, that's about it. That's why I rate "Paranoid" higher, the only throwaway track on there being "Rat Salad."

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Well, Sabbath's first album has the title track, "N.I.B.", "The Wizard", and well, that's about it.

 

You cannot judge the S/T in terms of individual songs, considering that most of the songs don't stop and just flow into the next one.

 

Though I think I like Paranoid better anyway.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Well, Sabbath's first album has the title track, "N.I.B.", "The Wizard", and well, that's about it.

 

You cannot judge the S/T in terms of individual songs, considering that most of the songs don't stop and just flow into the next one.

 

Though I think I like Paranoid better anyway.

Yeah, I know, but the individual songs are the best ones, the other ones are good but seem to go on forever.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

We need more Dio threads. I took a photo of him from an album sleeve on my phone, so it looks like I met him in a dark club. People have been convinced.

[Slayer 0]

We need more Dio threads.

I imagine you said this for backhanded reasons, but I agree regardless

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

I'm not going to object to more Dio threads. He invented this!

 

\m/

[Guest Thrashist]

First off, nothing will ever touch the original lineup of Black Sabbath in terms of revolutionizing the music business. They (Tony Iommi, Ozzy Osbourne, Geezer Butler, Bill Ward) created heavy metal, plain and simple.

 

With that said, Dio owns Ozzy. It's not even close. Better vocalist by far. I won't even begin to compare the Sabbath albums by each vocalist because they had vastly different styles and purpose. But for what it's worth, albums with Ronnie James Dio rule in large part because of his presence while albums with Ozzy Osbourne rule sometimes in spite of his presence. I'm not saying Ozzy is necessarily an all-together poor vocalist, and he is THE voice of Black Sabbath as we know it, but compare his vocal performances to Dio's and there's just no competition.

 

Even if musically you prefer Sabbath's first five well over the Dio Sabbath albums and you think the Rhodes solo work takes the slight edge over Holy Diver and Last in Line (which is understandable), let's just throw in the fact that Dio ruled in Rainbow as well, never appeared in a reality television show with his god awful children, and can still vary his setlist at age 60-something (whereas Ozzy has to stick with the same 10 songs year-after-year). And Dio began the horns. \m/

 

Personally, I'll just go with the fact that Dehumanizer is my favorite album of all-time. Oh and just as a side note, the Tony Martin albums rule as well.

 

edit: come to think of it, when it comes to Dio vs Ozzy, the real winner out of all of this is Tony Iommi. End of story.

[cabbageboy 0]

As I said, I never argued that Dio is a better vocalist technically than Ozzy....I just find his lyrics campy and his style overly theatrical and over the top. Ozzy puts out the vibe more than Dio, one of those aesthetic things that can't be easily explained.

 

And I'm glad someone else likes Never Say Die. That's a very underrated Sabbath album. Title song, Junior's Eyes, Johnny Blade (a little silly but still fun), and the aforementioned songs are all solid to great. I think we'll all agree Technical Ecstasy is the weakest Ozzy Sabbath album.

 

Thrashist, I won't argue about the post Dio Sabbath stuff, because I've never cared even the slightest bit about it. Gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere, and 1981 is where most people draw the line with Sabbath.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

I like to pretend Ozzy died in '82. Makes listening to early Sabbath a whole lot easier.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I like to pretend Ozzy died in '82. Makes listening to early Sabbath a whole lot easier.

If Ozzy died in '82, then we wouldn't have "Bark at the Moon."

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

I chose 1982 arbitrarily. You can select your own cut-off date.

[Guest Thrashist]

Gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere, and 1981 is where most people draw the line with Sabbath.

All that proves is how superficial 'most people' can be.

 

Yep, the connotation of the name Black Sabbath will always be the original lineup. I acknowledge that and I agree with that.

 

But past the initial stage of being hung up on the band name, most people cannot seem to get past the illusion of a name to view each album on its artistic merit alone. That is, don't expect Heaven and Hell with Dio to sound like Paranoid with Ozzy. If people don't want to accept it as Sabbath or don't like it on its own merit, that's fine. But at least listen to it for what it is, not what the band name was.

 

All people are doing by saying "fuck this, this isn't Sabbath without Ozzy" is depriving themselves of quality music, and there was a hell of a lot of that with Dio, Gillan and Martin. The post-Ozzy Sabbath albums rape everything Ozzy released a million times over. Sure, it wasn't Sabbath, but it rocked, and that's the bottom line.

 

(btw, this is not all directed at you, you gave reasons for not liking Dio. This is more to the prevalent opinion in metal to 'draw the line' as you said with Sabbath, and not give the other albums a chance. It just doesn't make sense.)

[cabbageboy 0]

I guess it's just that the usual consensus is that Sabbath hung around WAY too long and probably should have just called it quits after Dio left the band. Hardly any of the post Ozzy and Dio stuff gets any sort of decent critical reviews aside from maybe Dehumanizer, and I think Dio was back for that, correct?

 

My line in the sand is arbitrary really....I've got Heaven and Hell on CD but not Mob Rules (downloaded some of it). I wasn't so enamored with Dio that I needed more of him with Sabbath...I can imagine how much I'd like the lesser stuff after he left. After a point wasn't Iommi the only actual member left? That's why people stopped listening, it was Sabbath only in name.

 

Ozzy's solo stuff is decent enough, albeit in the "2 or 3 main singles and the rest is iffy" vein. I certainly prefer his old Sabbath stuff.

[Guest Crimson Idol]

Dio is the absolute best metal vocalist of all time with Bruce Dickinson and Rob Halford running a close second..

 

Dio Sabbath is the only sabbath and even well into his 60's Dio is still touring all the time and still sounds like he did back in the day.

 

Dio is not only a great vocalist but he is also one of the hardest working muscians today, and that is why he is better than all of you.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Dio Sabbath is the only sabbath

dude what

[Slayer 0]

Good to see my fellow Dio supporters finally showed up

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

I may not be a metal guy, but where does he get off dismissing early Sabbath? I'm listening to Master of Reality as I type this and good lord, shit's gold.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Yeah, but that's a power metal dork for ya.

[Slayer 0]

And we polarize back into the power vs. death cliques

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm amazed no one has truly trashed Crimson Idol over that "Dio Sabbath is the only Sabbath" remark.

 

Look, Dio's time with Sabbath is a footnote. His albums with them are slightly more important than curios, but not by much. I even listened to Heaven and Hell the other day and while Dio may have a better voice technically than Ozzy, man does he ever get monotonous and boring after about half of that CD. I'm sorry but the Dio Sabbath stuff simply isn't as timeless or classic as the Ozzy Sabbath stuff from roughly 1970-75.

 

Heaven and Hell sounds, well, dated. Put on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (remastered version) or as Incandenza said, Master of Reality, any of that stuff. Those albums sound amazingly modern and fresh, various elements inspiring anything from thrash metal to punk to Seattle grunge.

[Guest Crimson Idol]

The only credit Ozzy era Sabbath gets is for putting Heavy Metal on the map...