Gabe Sapolsky Heading To Nashville To Meet With TN

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Hey, TC, I'm a bigger fan of RoH than I am of TNA. But I guess I don't exist, or don't matter, right? Just been supporting TNA since the beginning, and supporting RoH since I first downloaded Daniels/Dragon (from Round Robin Challenge) about a year ago.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Hey, TC, I'm a bigger fan of RoH than I am of TNA. But I guess I don't exist, or don't matter, right? Just been supporting TNA since the beginning, and supporting RoH since I first downloaded Daniels/Dragon (from Round Robin Challenge) about a year ago.

It's fine to support both, as I do the same. I'm talking about the people who wear the ROH blinders. And hey, there's people who wear TNA blinders too. There are people on their message board who insist everything else is a joke. I was of the opinion that those are the people that raised a big stink over this latest issue, and that those people are not buying TNA anyway.

 

Now I support both. If TNA asks performers to stay away from ROH, will I stop supporting TNA? No. The wrestling business as it is today was built on promotions rading talent, screwing each other, etc. Right or wrong, that is life. To "boycott" TNA all of a sudden for doing the same thing I think is crazy. Should we boycott WWE because their wrestlers are on the juice? Should we boycott movies because actors/actresses have political views we disagree with or because they might have a drug problem? Do we stop watching or going to sporting events becasue an athlete is less than a model citizen? No. So why do we want to throw TNA under the bus for doing something that has been done over and over through time in wrestling?

[Michrome 0]

Because they'd be hurting the best wrestling promotion in the country by a longshot. Something damn well worthy of a boycott in my opinion.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Because they'd be hurting the best wrestling promotion in the country by a longshot. Something damn well worthy of a boycott in my opinion.

dit motherfucking to

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Because they'd be hurting the best wrestling promotion in the country by a longshot. Something damn well worthy of a boycott in my opinion.

What's World Wrestling Entertainment have to do with this topic?

 

And if anyone tries saying a little indy promotion is better than WWE I get the 2x4 baseball bat out of my closet.

[tpww7 0]

We said best wrestling promotion, not biggest. There's a difference. Go troll somewhere else.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

We said best wrestling promotion, not biggest. There's a difference. Go troll somewhere else.

So a Global promotion that makes money all over the world isn't as good as a bunch of Indy workers who wrestle in front of 700 people.

 

Nice logic.

[tpww7 0]

WRESTLING, as in the IN RING product.

 

There is no doubt WWE is the #1 promotion in the US but not for workrate at the moment. And whats the difference if a match is in front of 20000 or 2? If its a great match then the match is great no matter what. ROH has been drawing on par with some WWE house shows btw.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

WRESTLING, as in the IN RING product.

 

There is no doubt WWE is the #1 promotion in the US but not for workrate at the moment. And whats the difference if a match is in front of 20000 or 2? If its a great match then the match is great no matter what. ROH has been drawing on par with some WWE house shows btw.

Oh, I thought you meant best promotion PERIOD.

 

From a wrestling stand point, I GUESS I'll agree there, but to be fair, WWE has some great wrestlers. They just aren't being used right. (bastard Vince and Co.)

[Michrome 0]

Best promotion, as in best wrestling, best buildup to blowoffs, strongest feuds, best use of workers.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

...best buildup to blowoffs, strongest feuds....

Ok, now thats pushing it...

 

...best use of workers.

 

If this were a few months ago, I'd say yes, but now smark wet dreamers like Benoit & Eddie are getting pushed, while the shit people hate like Bob Holly & Mr. Ass are stuck on Velocity.

 

But there's still a lot of people being treated like garbage, as in my #1 example: Lance Storm.

 

But right now, most of the roster is being used right...

[Michrome 0]

The fact that a few guys are being used better doesn't make up for other horrible misuse. RoH lets guys go out there for 15-20 minutes and lets them try to steal the show. If they get over, and the fans dig the match, they'll get elevated. If not, back to the midcard and scrambles they go. There is no glass ceiling, everyone works with everyone, and everyone tries to make the others look like a million bucks.

[Michrome 0]

With the exception of Matt Stryker, whose inexplicable push is the sole example of retarded elevation.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I will take Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Brock Lesnar (I know he just left), Rey Mysterio Jr., Chavo Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Christian, and Shawn Michaels over anyone in ROH every day of the week except maybe AJ Styles.

 

Professional wrestling is about more than in-ring work. That's why it's professional wrestling, and not amateur wrestling.

 

WWE puts on 15 shows a month. ROH does 2.

 

In my world, best wrestling promotion has a ton to do with the one that makes the most money.

 

I love ROH, but come on people, this is insane.

[Michrome 0]

I will take Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Brock Lesnar (I know he just left), Rey Mysterio Jr., Chavo Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Christian, and Shawn Michaels over anyone in ROH every day of the week except maybe AJ Styles.

 

The fact that you choose Styles hurts your cred on this. American Dragon is a better worker than any of the above, and the bottom line is that while many of the above are good, outside of Michaels, they don't get to work long matches most of the time.

 

I'll take CM Punk's body of work in the last year over pretty much any of those guys. The same goes for Samoa Joe, Homicide, The Briscoes, etc.

 

While the potential is disgustingly great for WWE workers, they don't come close to realizing it. When looking at the roster, we should be getting 3 or 4 ***+ matches every single week. But that's not what happened.

 

In terms of volume of great matches, the 2 RoH shows I've seen from 2004 sure smoke the first 2 WWE PPVs. The same goes for volume of great matches in 2003. The amount of great matches being produced in RoH smokes the amount being produced in the WWE.

 

The fact that the WWE does 7 times as many shows as ROH, but still doesn't have a comparable body of great matches says a lot.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I will take Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Brock Lesnar (I know he just left), Rey Mysterio Jr., Chavo Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Christian, and Shawn Michaels over anyone in ROH every day of the week except maybe AJ Styles.

 

The fact that you choose Styles hurts your cred on this. American Dragon is a better worker than any of the above, and the bottom line is that while many of the above are good, outside of Michaels, they don't get to work long matches most of the time.

 

I'll take CM Punk's body of work in the last year over pretty much any of those guys. The same goes for Samoa Joe, Homicide, The Briscoes, etc.

 

While the potential is disgustingly great for WWE workers, they don't come close to realizing it. When looking at the roster, we should be getting 3 or 4 ***+ matches every single week. But that's not what happened.

 

In terms of volume of great matches, the 2 RoH shows I've seen from 2004 sure smoke the first 2 WWE PPVs. The same goes for volume of great matches in 2003. The amount of great matches being produced in RoH smokes the amount being produced in the WWE.

 

The fact that the WWE does 7 times as many shows as ROH, but still doesn't have a comparable body of great matches says a lot.

And some might say that you thinking American Dragon is a better worker than AJ Styles would hurt your cred. Considering how infrequently he works ROH, I don't know if can even be counted.

 

Your point about 7 times as many shows and not a comparable body or work can be taken another way - if WWE focused all their efforts into just putting on 2 shows a month, don't you think things would be different? If ROH had to put on 5 shows a week, would the work rate stay the same? Just something to think about.

[Michrome 0]

I don't think that point holds water, because it's not as if these guys only work ROH and take the rest of the month off. Most of them work grueling indy schedules, driving for hours on end to reach shows all around the country.

 

I don't think you could find a single worker in the business that has worked both Styles and Dragon that would say Styles is better. Dragon is quite arguably the top worker in the world, and while Styles is getting damn good, he was still carried by Dragon at 11/1, though not as much as he was in their first match, which was one of the biggest carry-jobs ever.

 

I stand by my point on volume of good matches. For workrate, entertainment value, and variety, I will take RoH's 1/10/04 over Wrestlemania any day. The same goes for the minor show in Maryland that I just saw.

[Guest Deviant]

I'm actually a fan of Matt Stryker, and at the time of the Field of Honor, he seemed like the right guy to go over. However, the actual match (is said to have) sucked, and that has hurt him since.

 

Before that match, the fans were quite enjoying his matches and the unibrow stuff.

 

In retrospect, he was the wrong guy to win, but I personally can't blame ROH for the decision made at the time. I can understand why they would have wanted to push him too. With the Pure Title now around too, I can still see Stryker being elevated in an acceptable way.

 

As for WWE vs. ROH comparisons, Michrome said all there is to say.

 

In terms of volume of great matches, the 2 RoH shows I've seen from 2004 sure smoke the first 2 WWE PPVs. The same goes for volume of great matches in 2003. The amount of great matches being produced in RoH smokes the amount being produced in the WWE.

 

WWE has some workers more than capable of the ROH standard of wrestling, but the percentage of their matches in which they get to show it is almost too small to measure.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I think this is an interesting topic. A few things.

 

1. thinking about it, WWE puts on 8 shows a week between the 2 brands. I don't think if ROH put on 8 shows a week it could maintain the quality of it's wrestling.

 

2. I understand ROH workers work elsewhere. My point wasn't that they are fresher. It's that the shows are more "loaded." If WWE as a whole devoted their efforts to just doing 2 or 3 huge shows a month, the matchups would be better, the feuds would be more drawn out, and the quality of wrestling would be better.

 

3. I feel we're comparing apples and bowling balls here. WWE and ROH are so different from each other, I don't know how they can really be compared. WWE cannot load up every single show and make it this huge deal. They are a world wide billion dollar company. ROH draws 600 a show, and is damn good at what they do. I don't know if you can even compare TNA to ROH. While everyone's ultimate goal is to make money, each group is trying to make different amounts of money and is going about things entirely differently. To be fair to ROH, I'd compare them to everyone but WWE and TNA. (not saying TNA is out of their league, just saying the business models are 100% different) In comparing ROH to everyone else in America, they are superior, hands down.

[Guest OSIcon]

1wrestling is reporting that TNA's concern with ROH is over the Feinstein situation, despite what has been previously reported.

 

Not sure how valid that is as both PWInsider and Meltzer reported that it didn't have to do with Feinstein and it took 1wrestling until now to report othwerwise. It seems odd to me that this story broke on Friday and it took Bob Ryder until now to give the "true" story. With his involvement in TNA, you would assume that he would have known what was really going on from the beginning (especially since he responded to fans' emails about the situation). I don't understand why he would just let a false story float around for 5 days before coming out and saying it is false.

 

If it is true, then the reason for wanting to distance themselves from ROH is at least easier to understand.

 

EDIT: PWInsider is saying that the Feinstein situation has more to do with than previous thought, so that looks accurate.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Like anyone with any common sense didn't already know that the RF thing had a ton to do with it? I just can't believe the people that have consistently come on here and said it had nothing to do with the RF situation, and that TNA was doing it just because they're Dicks.

[Guest OSIcon]

Like anyone with any common sense didn't already know that the RF thing had a ton to do with it? I just can't believe the people that have consistently come on here and said it had nothing to do with the RF situation, and that TNA was doing it just because they're Dicks.

 

Silly me. Going by the facts that are presented to us by multiple sources instead of just assuming and believing whatever I want to believe. Maybe I'll just stop watching news and weather reports and just use my "common sense" to figure everything out.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Like anyone with any common sense didn't already know that the RF thing had a ton to do with it? I just can't believe the people that have consistently come on here and said it had nothing to do with the RF situation, and that TNA was doing it just because they're Dicks.

 

Silly me. Going by the facts that are presented to us by multiple sources instead of just assuming and believing whatever I want to believe. Maybe I'll just stop watching news and weather reports and just use my "common sense" to figure everything out.

news and weather is not internet wrestling reporting. The news is the news, but you still have a brain and you can think for yourself and formulate your own opinions from it.

 

The news told me that TNA asked people to stop wrestling in ROH. ROH just recently had a pedophile scandal. I can think for myself and put 2 and 2 together.

[2GOLD 0]

So it's TNA wanting to protect their workers and their own ass. And odds are Gabe is going to meet with TNA to prove that RF is no longer part of ROH so they avoid the problems between them both.

 

I can't say I blame them wanting to protect their own ass when trying to get a tv deal.

 

RF is just kinda screwing up everything, the little shit.

[bob_barron 0]

Very in-depth article by Mike Johnson from pwinsider-

 

ROH AND NWA TNA OFFICIALS MEET IN NASHVILLE; A IN-DEPTH LOOK AT THE CURRENT SITUATION

by Mike Johnson @ 1:45:00 PM on 3/31/2004

 

 

Ring of Honor booker Gabe Sapolsky is in Nashville, TN and will be sitting down with NWA: TNA's Jeff Jarrett over TNA's decision to ask contracted workers to no longer appear on Ring of Honor events.

 

As covered heavily here on PWInsider.com last week when we exclusively broke the story, NWA: TNA officials have approached a number of their regulars, including Chris Sabin, Christopher Daniels, and AJ Styles over the situation.

 

Many have wondered why TNA would cut their talent off from working additional dates when they are only booking the workers three dates a month currently. According to an initial source, TNA decided to ask workers to "distance themselves" from ROH (as was stated to AJ Styles two weeks ago) after being questioned about a relationship between the two promotions by those in the television industry during conversations. The feeling was that if TNA allowed their contracted workers to appear on ROH events, they were endorsing the company by those appearances, as it gave the appearance that the companies were affiliated. At that point, it was believed that TNA's television negotiations may have been the primary factor in the decision.

 

However, as Jess McGrath reported in the Elite Newsletter here on PWInsider.com over the weekend, additional TNA sources were pointing towards the Rob Feinstein situation as well as a reason for TNA wanting to pull talent as TNA did not want to be associated with any fallout from that scandal.

 

The reaction to TNA's decision was negative across the board from both wrestler and fan standpoints. Sources close to the situation have said that Daniels and Styles both disagreed with the decision and were vouching for Ring of Honor during a meeting with TNA last week. The feeling among many of the wrestlers was that TNA was asking them to give up paydays (that in some cases were better than the ones TNA provides) without booking them for more dates and/or more money. Plus, there is a distinct amount of pride among those who work for Ring of Honor as the fan base and the amount of time they get to work inside the ring gives them a more fulfilling experience than working for other independent promotions.

 

At the same time, ROH's Internet fan base began rallying around the promotion and began emailing not only NWA TNA but Fox Sports as well. I have heard stories of the same fans preparing lists of FOX Sports advertisers to approach if needed. The campaign was short but it worked as the emails, especially the ones directed to FOX, spooked TNA officials.

 

In recent weeks, TNA has been hard at work trying to secure a slot with the FOX Sports Network, to the point that a number of prospective taping sites have been brought up internally, including Las Vegas, Orlando, and Atlantic City. The FOX negotiations are a prime reason for the "new direction" seen by NWA: TNA in recent weeks, as workers have been instructed to maintain a clean image during the negotiations. There was a feeling that the emails could cripple the company's chances at the deal.

 

In an attempt to calm the situation, NWA TNA's Bob Ryder reached out to Ring of Honor last Friday afternoon. During conversations with Ryder and Jarrett, ROH's Gabe Sapolsky made arrangements to travel to Nashville to continue discussions. Once the decision was made to open communications, ROH's Sapolsky released the following statement to PWInsider.com:

 

"Everyone at Ring Of Honor cannot express how much we appreciate the support of our fanbase. I just want everyone to know that that TNA is working very closely with us to resolve things. Right now, I would like to ask our fans to stop emailing TNA and any other places you are emailing. While we are honored that our fans care enough to voice their concern, I assure you that right now the best way to handle this situation is for ROH and TNA to resolve it together, which we are working on. Thank you and again your support and the fact that ROH fans, who we consider our family, cared enough to send these emails means so much to us."

 

In his own attempt to calm fans that emailed TNA about the situation, Ryder wrote in response, "Thanks for your email. We are working with current Ring of Honor management to try to resolve things, and we are all hopeful things will work out favorably for everyone involved. TNA has been supportive of Ring of Honor in the past, and we hope we can continue that support in the future."

 

In many ways, NWA: TNA is in a very precarious situation. They are asking workers to give up dates with Ring of Honor because they felt having their performers involved with ROH could hurt their relationships with television entities. However, that decision only served to cause a rabid hardcore fan base to loudly speak out and in turn, cause TNA to fear for whatever negotiations they currently are involved in. Should the situation not be resolved amicably, TNA may have to deal with a very angry group of fans who live and breath to watch and discuss wrestling amongst themselves on the Internet. During a period where the future of NWA: TNA could well be decided by television executives, those fans could be a very loud distraction during negotiations.

 

At the same time, ROH stands to lose a great deal as well. Should the TNA workers be yanked immediately without even having a chance to say goodbye to their fans (something even WCW allowed those they signed from ECW to do), it would put huge holes in the meticulously booked Ring of Honor storylines. It would leave The Prophecy without their leader, Christopher Daniels during a headline feud against The Second City Saints. It would leave the promotion without their Pure Wrestling champion, AJ Styles, while Styles is in the midst of storylines with CM Punk and Samoa Joe. While the fan base would likely continue to support ROH without fail, it would cause the promotion to have to change existing lineups and storylines when one of ROH's strengths has always been its long term planning. At the same time, the promotion would also have to work harder to build new stars to replace those who have been with the company from the company's earliest days.

 

The meeting today in Nashville between the two promotions could go a long way in determining the short and long term futures of the companies involved. We'll have details on further developments on the story as they become available.

[Michrome 0]

Oh give me a break on this. Mike still says his source sticks by the story that it has nothing to do with Feinstein, and this source has been right about all of the other stuff in this story so far.

 

TNA had been upset with wrestlers saying they prefer ROH over TNA for months, and they've jumped on a chance to take advantage of it. Bob Ryder posts some news that makes his OWN COMPANY look good, and you people take it as fact.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

"TNA had been upset with wrestlers saying they prefer ROH over TNA for months"

 

When did they say that? Or when did anyone report that?

 

Even after AJ made that statement...TNA still plugged RoH on their site...they sure were devious in how they hid that hatred from the rest of the world.

 

No...they laid in wait until RF got busted for attempted sex with a minor...NOW I SEE THE MASTER PLAN!!!!

 

If I ran a company and some of my guys worked for Rob Black during the snake eating a puppy incident...I sure as hell would have asked them to distance themselves...

 

Unless Gabe can show some actual proof (and by proof I mean something a little better than a letter I could type and print myself) that RF is fully out...

 

You know what...I'm not going to label the non-child raping party the bad guys.

[Michrome 0]

Unless Gabe can show some actual proof (and by proof I mean something a little better than a letter I could type and print myself) that RF is fully out...

 

You know what...I'm not going to label the non-child raping party the bad guys.

 

Typical nonsense from someone without a clue. It has been pointed out many times that PA law does not require notarization or any filings when an ownership change occurs in a business corporation (which is what ROH and RFV are filed as). All that is required is the signatures of both parties and the letter from the lawyer. That is what they have. Who are you to set standards for them above the law? What proof could they show you that would make you happy? Would RF have to be dead? Please explain what proof would make you believe he's gone.

 

Dave has said for months that there is growing jealousy in TNA over the way ROH is praised and they are criticized. Punk has also had heat for months for putting over ROH on his website, and not TNA.

 

They're a child-raping party now? Wow, congratulations, the idiot of the day has been determined!

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

"Who are you to set standards for them above the law?"

 

A consumer of their product who they OWE IT TO AFTER WHAT HAPPENED to do more than satisfy some suits. The diehard RoH fans wouldn't have cared if RF was still running the show, they'd have presented their younger brothers for prestreet tapes. Just sliding by a severely laxed laws after a sex scandal that would have had everyone up in arms about any other wrestling promotion in the country. Yep. That's what I wanted all along.

 

 

 

"Dave has said for months that there is growing jealousy in TNA over the way ROH is praised and they are criticized. Punk has also had heat for months for putting over ROH on his website, and not TNA."

 

And yet...none of this mattered until TNA was trying to get a TV deal and a huge scandal affected where there talent works. Nope...couldn't have anything to do with it at all.

 

 

What I find so incredibly funny is the lengths you will go to defend your guys trying to protect their business from recent events...but also damn anyone else who does too. It's completely impossible that EVEN THOUGH ALL OF THIS WENT DOWN IMMEDIATLY FOLLOWING THE RF SITUATION AND NOT A MOMENT SOONER...that it had ANYTHING to do with it.

 

Yep.

[Michrome 0]

Still waiting for what you would like from ROH to "prove" Rob is gone. Spare us your normal stupidity and just give an answer.