The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[Ripper 0]

i'd be cocky too if i was beating the number one team in the west so handily, without making any real effort. i think i heard marv albert scream at the top of his lungs, "IT COUNTS, AND THE FOUL!" at least nine times for the lakers during that game. they're both rhythm teams, and minnesota can't create its rhythm without cassell or home court advantage, especially playing a team with so many weapons.

i wouldn't call 2 weapons so many.

 

bottom line is everyone on the Twolves are giving exactlly what they should, they are just missing 20 points and 7 assist from the equation.

 

You take away anyteams number 2 scorer and that team is in trouble. I am getting tired of Cocky lakers because they are playing a depleted team that still can give them a run for their money.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

You're allowed to THROW the ball, you just can't KICK it. That's in the rules by the way.

Yeah, but it happened after the game, so technically he didn't break any rule.

I was being facetious.

[Ripper 0]

You're allowed to THROW the ball, you just can't KICK it. That's in the rules by the way.

Yeah, but it happened after the game, so technically he didn't break any rule.

I was being facetious.

Stop being big words.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

The Lakers will take Game 5.

[Ripper 0]

The Lakers will take Game 5.

We are talking about the Lakers here.

 

In all likelihood they are going to come out cocky as hell and lethargic giving the Wolves a chance to pop them one and then win it in 6.

 

By the way, when was the last time the Wolves got a 2 day break? It isn't going to happen in this series even if it goes to 7. WHERE the fuck did this accelerated scedule come from all of a sudden?

[KingPK 0]

Stern probably finally got the hint that we don't need 5 days between playoff games and stretching the playoffs until late June.

[Ripper 0]

Stern probably finally got the hint that we don't need 5 days between playoff games and stretching the playoffs until late June.

He got it after the conference semis?

 

This is worse than changing the first round of the playoffs from 5 games to 7 that year people were worried about LA getting it together.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Of course, if the Wolves finished off Sacto in 6, and the Lakers won in 7, the situation would have been reversed. Also, Detroit is in the exact same situation and they're UP 2-1.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Of course, if the Wolves finished off Sacto in 6, and the Lakers won in 7, the situation would have been reversed. Also, Detroit is in the exact same situation and they're UP 2-1.

I'm glad someone beat me to to this comment.

 

I'm getting real sick and tired of all these excuses and conspiracy theories. Can't people just accept that the Lakers are winning? There have been times where Kobe was out and others when Shaq was out (though admittedly not in the playoffs), and they were still able to win so losing Cassell is no excuse especially when you still have Garnett, Sprewell, and Szerbiak (sp?) putting up points.

 

Even if Cassell was playing, this series would probably be closer but it's just one more weapon for LA to shutdown. They already had to deal with the three headed monster in Ginobli, Duncan, and Parker. I think that gives them more than enough credibility to be recognized as the true top team in the West, especially considering all of the Lakers' wins (and granted their only loss) in the series have been fairly decisive. San Antonio played the Lakers MUCH better, it is embarassing to see the #1 team in the West with the MVP be handled like this and be losing in the series 1-3 and be facing a possible Game 5 elimination. Hell, had the Lakers put forth any effort in Game 2, we might already be talking about whether Detroit or Indy would match up better in the Finals, especially with all the rest LA is going to get.

 

The offense for Los Angeles was doing awesome yesterday, and they really clicked. Shaq was playing with intensity, Kobe of course played damn well after getting to the game an hour before tipoff from court, Fish, George, hell I think I even saw Medvedenko make a shot and he made that awesome assist to Shaq late in the game.

 

Of course I've seen flaws in LA's defense, while offensively they're bringing the firepower the defense seems to be lacking, though I'm not sure it's because they don't feel the need to be trying that hard because they had a sizeable lead or because they really weren't playing well...

 

Time will tell now if the Wolves will get their act together and try to come back and pull off a huge upset. It's still possible, no matter how unlikely.

[Ripper 0]

First of all, i am stating that the change of pace is fucked up anyway. I don't care who is getting the advantage.

 

Second, how can you say a teams number 2 scorer and leader in assist "doesn't matter" in a series. Shaq is the Lakers number two scorer. Take away him or Kobe and tell me that doesn't matter, the Lakers should still win.

 

Injuries happen in basketball and thats all well and good, but I am tired of cocky Laker fans acting like they are pummeling the best team in basketball and ther is no other reason than them being a great team. Credit is due, the Lakers are up 3-1 but lets cut the bullshit about Cassell doesn't matter.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Where the hell do you see that kind of talk from "cocky Laker fans"? Orale doesn't count, for one thing and I've freely acknowledged that Cassell is a big reason why we're up in the series 3-1 instead of it being 2-2 or possibly worse.

 

There's also the possiblity when ANY injury occurs in ANY sport, that the backup would match up better against a team than the starter, and wouldn't otherwise play if it weren't for an injury to the starter. Not saying this might be the case, but you can't pin all of the Timberwolves' troubles on Cassell alone is what I'm saying.

[Ripper 0]

Where the hell do you see that kind of talk from "cocky Laker fans"? Orale doesn't count, for one thing and I've freely acknowledged that Cassell is a big reason why we're up in the series 3-1 instead of it being 2-2 or possibly worse.

 

There's also the possiblity when ANY injury occurs in ANY sport, that the backup would match up better against a team than the starter, and wouldn't otherwise play if it weren't for an injury to the starter. Not saying this might be the case, but you can't pin all of the Timberwolves' troubles on Cassell alone is what I'm saying.

Not saying that the Wolves would win with him. Maybe the Lakers would play harder. But this series wouldn't be the same. But Cassell put up 16 points barely playing in the second half of game one, put up 18 not playing in the second half of game 3. To say he wouldn't make a difference...thats just crazy. I am pinning the Wolves troubles on Darrick Fucking Martin being their starting point guard now. That guy would be hard pressed to find work as a backup in the league. He is replacing a ALL-STAR guard with two title rings, and a backup that is a hell of a shooter and a proven Laker killa.

 

And the "cocky laker fan talk" is coming from the land outside of the computer. Goddamn co workers.

[alfdogg 0]

Byron Scott agrees to coach Hornets

[Ripper 0]

Ah...Bill Walton.

 

Check out his chat on ESPN where in one sentence he calls Bill Lambier and Dennis Rodman dirty players but calls Karl "knockem out" Malone just a physcial player.

 

I think Orale is Bill Walton honestly.

[Brett Favre 0]

Lets not forget Troy* Hudson now. If Hudson and Cassell were healthy, the T'Wolves would win in 6 games. If Fisher couldn't guard Hudson last year, an old Payton wouldn't guard him this year. Cassell would stretch the defense for KG and the T'Wolves would win this series. Lakers really haven't done anything major other than defeating a team without A) A player that can nail 30 against them specificly anynight (Hudson) and B) One of the top 5 clutch players in the league and a 20, 8 guy (Cassell). Take away Shaq and Derek Fisher and the Lakers would be in the same position the T'Wolves are in now.

 

*Too much baseball for me.

Edited May 28, 2004 by Cena's Writer

[The Electrifyer 0]

*cough*TROY Hudson*cough*

[Guest Vitamin X]

Lets not forget Tim Hudson now. If Hudson and Cassell were healthy, the T'Wolves would win in 6 games. If Fisher couldn't guard Hudson last year, an old Payton wouldn't guard him this year. Cassell would stretch the defense for KG and the T'Wolves would win this series. Lakers really haven't done anything major other than defeating a team without A) A player that can nail 30 against them specificly anynight (Hudson) and B) One of the top 5 clutch players in the league and a 20, 8 guy (Cassell). Take away Shaq and Derek Fisher and the Lakers would be in the same position the T'Wolves are in now.

20, maybe. 30? No.

 

The Lakers are being real lazy with playing defense because they KNOW they don't have to defend against Cassell or Hudson. Again, you can't blame an entire series or game on just injuries or even a few plays, because you don't know how the other team would react to the players that are otherwise injured.

[Brett Favre 0]

Lets not forget Tim Hudson now. If Hudson and Cassell were healthy, the T'Wolves would win in 6 games. If Fisher couldn't guard Hudson last year, an old Payton wouldn't guard him this year. Cassell would stretch the defense for KG and the T'Wolves would win this series. Lakers really haven't done anything major other than defeating a team without A) A player that can nail 30 against them specificly anynight (Hudson) and B) One of the top 5 clutch players in the league and a 20, 8 guy (Cassell). Take away Shaq and Derek Fisher and the Lakers would be in the same position the T'Wolves are in now.

20, maybe. 30? No.

 

The Lakers are being real lazy with playing defense because they KNOW they don't have to defend against Cassell or Hudson. Again, you can't blame an entire series or game on just injuries or even a few plays, because you don't know how the other team would react to the players that are otherwise injured.

Did you watch last year's series? They couldn't guard Troy Hudson. A pick a roll and he'd nail the three. They closed up on him and he just drove right past his defender. He'd get a layup or kick it out to an open shooter. When you have someone who can do that constantly, Garnett becomes better, Spree becomes better, and if you have him on the floor at the same time, Cassell will get open jump shots. Add that with the fact that you have Hoilberg, Hassell, and Szcerbiak waiting in the wings as well. It takes away the double team that they'd have on Garnett if they had Cassell or Hudson, and Wally can take anyone who's guarding him one on one without a problem. They'd decide to put Kobe on him, no problem. Kobe would tire out and struggle on offense, while you still have Cassell to guard as well. Two injuries can do that, and without those two injures, i'm pretty sure the T'Wolves would have played with more confidence than the Lakers, and better.

 

**It's like if you were facing the Spurs (Troy Hudson = Tony Parker), but this time you have players who can nail jump shots. Garnett takes the role of Duncan, and Spree, Cassell, Hoilberg, Hassell, Wally take the roles of Turkouglu, Bowen, Brown, Ginobili, and Horry. I know that you know that if the Spurs nailed their jumpers the series would have been won easily. Well, if Hudson was healthy, and Cassell as well, those jumpers would have gone down, simply because the T'Wolves are a darn good jump shooting team.

Edited May 28, 2004 by Cena's Writer

[Steviekick 0]

Ah...Bill Walton.

 

Check out his chat on ESPN where in one sentence he calls Bill Lambier and Dennis Rodman dirty players but calls Karl "knockem out" Malone just a physcial player.

 

I think Orale is Bill Walton honestly.

Haha. It's kind of funny. When Malone was still in Utah, Walton would hint at him playing dirty.

[Guest Vitamin X]

**It's like if you were facing the Spurs (Troy Hudson = Tony Parker), but this time you have players who can nail jump shots. Garnett takes the role of Duncan, and Spree, Cassell, Hoilberg, Hassell, Wally take the roles of Turkouglu, Bowen, Brown, Ginobili, and Horry. I know that you know that if the Spurs nailed their jumpers the series would have been won easily. Well, if Hudson was healthy, and Cassell as well, those jumpers would have gone down, simply because the T'Wolves are a darn good jump shooting team.

Who won last year's series with Minnesota? Who won this year's series with San Antonio? And furthermore I don't think LA's defense gets enough credit for what they did against Parker and the Spurs. They all but shut him down after Game 2 with a mild comeback in Game 6, when the game was all but won.

 

On top of it all, last year's Minnesota and LA teams were completely different than they are now, especially Minnesota but Horry is gone and Malone and Payton are in.

 

San Antonio got lazy in Game 3 (why do champs always seem to get lazy when they think a series or game has been won?) and then got blown up by Bryant in Game 4, while LA played some damn good defense. Now I'm not saying LA could take Minnesota as easily as the Spurs, since they're no defensive team like the guys out in the East are, but they play good enough defense and create turnovers to give their offense opportunities. Shaq was rebounding yesterday like a madman, granted that comes from missed shots, but the Lakers seem to know that Minnesota isn't going to make as many of their shots without Cassell. Again, it's a totally different ballgame, you make adjustments based on who you know is playing and who isn't.

[Brett Favre 0]

**It's like if you were facing the Spurs (Troy Hudson = Tony Parker), but this time you have players who can nail jump shots. Garnett takes the role of Duncan, and Spree, Cassell, Hoilberg, Hassell, Wally take the roles of Turkouglu, Bowen, Brown, Ginobili, and Horry. I know that you know that if the Spurs nailed their jumpers the series would have been won easily. Well, if Hudson was healthy, and Cassell as well, those jumpers would have gone down, simply because the T'Wolves are a darn good jump shooting team.

Who won last year's series with Minnesota? Who won this year's series with San Antonio? And furthermore I don't think LA's defense gets enough credit for what they did against Parker and the Spurs. They all but shut him down after Game 2 with a mild comeback in Game 6, when the game was all but won.

 

On top of it all, last year's Minnesota and LA teams were completely different than they are now, especially Minnesota but Horry is gone and Malone and Payton are in.

 

San Antonio got lazy in Game 3 (why do champs always seem to get lazy when they think a series or game has been won?) and then got blown up by Bryant in Game 4, while LA played some damn good defense. Now I'm not saying LA could take Minnesota as easily as the Spurs, since they're no defensive team like the guys out in the East are, but they play good enough defense and create turnovers to give their offense opportunities. Shaq was rebounding yesterday like a madman, granted that comes from missed shots, but the Lakers seem to know that Minnesota isn't going to make as many of their shots without Cassell. Again, it's a totally different ballgame, you make adjustments based on who you know is playing and who isn't.

Exactly, they are two different teams, which is why I feel the T'Wolves would have won this year. Sprewell, Cassell, Ervin Johnson, Mark Madsen are an upgrade over Peeler, Smith, Nestorovich, and which ever guy was backing up Hudson last year. Malone is old as hell, and to say that he would have handled the pick and roll is ridiculous since Hudson would have just blown right past him, and Payton is worse that Fisher right now in his career. I mean, what would the Lakers have done? They are triple teaming KG right now, lets say Cassell and Hudson were healthy. They don't triple team KG. KG gets Malone one on one, KG dominates. Wally gets Devean George or Rick Fox one on one, Wally will get more points. The Lakers would have to play man to man with each player. That means Cassell gets to shoot over Payton, Spree gets to drive on George and Garnett gets to dominate Karl Malone. Hudson, Wally and Hoilberg are definitely better scorers than Fisher, George and Rush. If Hudson and Cassell were healthy, tell me, what would the Lakers have done?

[Steviekick 0]

I wouldn't say that Payton is worse than Fisher. The two of them are pretty much equal.

[Guest Vitamin X]

**It's like if you were facing the Spurs (Troy Hudson = Tony Parker), but this time you have players who can nail jump shots. Garnett takes the role of Duncan, and Spree, Cassell, Hoilberg, Hassell, Wally take the roles of Turkouglu, Bowen, Brown, Ginobili, and Horry. I know that you know that if the Spurs nailed their jumpers the series would have been won easily. Well, if Hudson was healthy, and Cassell as well, those jumpers would have gone down, simply because the T'Wolves are a darn good jump shooting team.

Who won last year's series with Minnesota? Who won this year's series with San Antonio? And furthermore I don't think LA's defense gets enough credit for what they did against Parker and the Spurs. They all but shut him down after Game 2 with a mild comeback in Game 6, when the game was all but won.

 

On top of it all, last year's Minnesota and LA teams were completely different than they are now, especially Minnesota but Horry is gone and Malone and Payton are in.

 

San Antonio got lazy in Game 3 (why do champs always seem to get lazy when they think a series or game has been won?) and then got blown up by Bryant in Game 4, while LA played some damn good defense. Now I'm not saying LA could take Minnesota as easily as the Spurs, since they're no defensive team like the guys out in the East are, but they play good enough defense and create turnovers to give their offense opportunities. Shaq was rebounding yesterday like a madman, granted that comes from missed shots, but the Lakers seem to know that Minnesota isn't going to make as many of their shots without Cassell. Again, it's a totally different ballgame, you make adjustments based on who you know is playing and who isn't.

Exactly, they are two different teams, which is why I feel the T'Wolves would have won this year. Sprewell, Cassell, Ervin Johnson, Mark Madsen are an upgrade over Peeler, Smith, Nestorovich, and which ever guy was backing up Hudson last year. Malone is old as hell, and to say that he would have handled the pick and roll is ridiculous since Hudson would have just blown right past him, and Payton is worse that Fisher right now in his career. I mean, what would the Lakers have done? They are triple teaming KG right now, lets say Cassell and Hudson were healthy. They don't triple team KG. KG gets Malone one on one, KG dominates. Wally gets Devean George or Rick Fox one on one, Wally will get more points. The Lakers would have to play man to man with each player. That means Cassell gets to shoot over Payton, Spree gets to drive on George and Garnett gets to dominate Karl Malone. Hudson, Wally and Hoilberg are definitely better scorers than Fisher, George and Rush. If Hudson and Cassell were healthy, tell me, what would the Lakers have done?

You can't make all those assumptions on who would beat who in the series. KG is being triple teamed because he's their only option right now besides Spree and maybe Wally. Wally is vastly overrated, by the way. I think George or Fox could both handle him, especially if the Laker defense had to concentrate on another three headed monster in Garnett, Spree, and Parker. Like I already said, they dealt with one in Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli, all of whom are infinitely better (maybe with the exception of KG, but Duncan and KG is a close one) and were dealt with.

 

This Minnesota series is basically what would have happened in the San Antonio series if Parker was out.

 

EDIT: I don't know if I'd agree on Johnson and Madsen being much of an upgrade over Peeler, Smith, or Nesterovich.

 

Either way, I think Minnesota is set for the future whether or not they win this series, and if not this year, then definitely next year after the Lakers are disbanded.

 

Of course that could be a totally different story if Malone/Payton retire, Shaq and Kobe stay and they obtain T-Mac.

[Brett Favre 0]

I disagree on Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan better than Cassell, Spree, and Garnett. The reason I mention those is because Ginobili and Parker missed tons of open shots, while Cassell and Spree nail those same open shots. Right now Cassell is better Parker, and Spree/Ginobili is debatable, although i'd give the edge to Spree simply because of his ability to get 30 any given night. Wally is a great scorer, and is better than George/Fox IMO. He was also a great scorer in college, when given the chance he can give you 20.

 

Your right about the T'Wolves, if Cassell can stay healthy, they are set for next year. They need someone like an Erick Dampier to really name them the favorites next year though.

[Steviekick 0]

Next year will be the TWolves year. Even though he's hurt, Cassell is still more consistent than Parker.

[Guest OraleHolmes]

Unfortunately, next year will not be the T'Wolves' year.

 

With Karl Malone wanting to stay in L.A. for another year -- assuming they win the championship -- and T'MAC's desire to play for the Lakers, they'll be more unstoppable than ever. Just the combination of Kobe and McGrady in the backcourt is lethal. With Malone and Shaq, it's calamitous.

 

Damn the Lakers and their freeloading ways.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

As for whose year it will be next year, that really depends on which team does what during the off season. Which teams will be able to make their team better. For example, lets say that Webber's knee fully heals in the off season, and the Kings pick up a great free agent, and they have a full healthy team, then it could be their year. (Just an example, not an actual prediction, yet). Or the Spurs could pick up another scorer, and all of the sudden it becomes their year. And yes, even the Lakers will be considered favorites.

 

But I am not too sure about the Lakers. Bill Simmons had a great article today about the Lakers on ESPN.com, on Page 2. Where he made some good points about how either Phil or Kobe will be gone next season. I could see Kobe leaving, just so he does not have to share the spotlight with Shaq. Now a smart player would swallow his ego, and agree to play with Shaq until Shaq could play no more, but this is Kobe, who is on his on little world most of the time. And Malone, even if he does resign, is not getting any younger. His age is catching up to him, and this was not his best season. I don't remember Malone spending relative time on the DL, like he did this year. Is he really going to make that huge difference? And Payton is gone next season, but even he is showing that he is not the player he once was, so I doubt the Lakers will miss him any. And if Kobe is gone, the Lakers fall back into the crowd. Shaq with a way past his prime Malone, does not strike the fear of Shaq and a just-entering-his-prime Kobe. And if the Lakers do decide to keep Kobe, then Phil will go bye-bye, and maybe Shaq as well. Without both, the Lakers will not win the championship. And in the article, Simmons mentioned that the Lakers might have had enough of Kobe, intensified by the whole rape trial (which I will credit Kobe for not letting that affect his play).

 

Man, this Laker team will more than likely win in 6 (I think Minnesota has at least one more win in them). And will be the heavily favorite to win it all. But, man this will not be the most impressive championship run. Sometimes the Lakers just look like they would rather be playing X-Box, or something. But I will give credit where it is due, Kobe and Shaq are an awesome duo, and Kobe has carried this team, or Shaq also has held that duty. But at times this team just looks like it does not care. And this is why I do feel the Eastern Conference Champ will have a chance. But being that this is the NBA, the Lakers will win another championship, albeit, with one of the most confusing title runs, and then the huge shakeup. And I get a feeling Kobe, being that he looks to be gone, will miss Shaq, but whatever team he ends up on, will be his, and that is the logic that goes through Kobe's head.

 

As for today's game, the Pacers looked good today. I think that either the Pacers or Pistons will be a tough oppanent for the Lakers. Even though, I think the Pistons might pose a tougher match up, being that the Pistons throw the Wallace's at you, and one is big and nasty, and the other is just plain insane. But either one more than likely will not have enough to win it all, but it will be interesting to say the least. The Pacers played like they were the team with the best record. They let their lead slip, but regained their composure to hold off the Piston's run. And Artest finally was able to score some points tonight, and O'Niel's injured knee was less serious than it looked, but he will feel it in the morning. The East looks like it will go 7 games.

[Damaramu 0]

Unfortunately, next year will not be the T'Wolves' year.

 

With Karl Malone wanting to stay in L.A. for another year -- assuming they win the championship -- and T'MAC's desire to play for the Lakers, they'll be more unstoppable than ever. Just the combination of Kobe and McGrady in the backcourt is lethal. With Malone and Shaq, it's calamitous.

 

Damn the Lakers and their freeloading ways.

*yawn*

Your act is old. The Lakers aren't unstoppable now and they won't be unstoppable next year.

[Guest NaturalBornThriller4:20]

Who said anything about Tracy McGrady going to the Lakers ? Go away with that bullshit.

Stop acting like everybody is going to end up on the Laker roster.

 

They'll all kill each other before the season even starts.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

T-Mac still has one year left before he can option out of his contract. So he either will stay on the Magic all season, or will he will be traded to a team that will not be the Lakers.