Catholic Church recommending that pro-choice

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm a Catholic and I don't agree with this AT ALL. It's spiritual blackmail.

While I can appreciate your view here, the Catholic Church should not simply change its views to keep with the times. There are fundamental right and wrong.

 

The Church does not approve of abortion. If Kerry disagrees with their stance, then they do have the right to excommunicate him.

 

He also has the right to choose another religion.

-=Mike

I'm not thinking about abortion. I'm thinking about the precedent this sets for future issues. Will the Catholic Church use this with ANY issue they feel strongly about? Hell, will this stop people from voting for Catholic politicians?

Honestly, it's not the Church's concern.

 

If you say you're a Catholic and take communion, you're ACCEPTING their dogma as your own.

 

If you disagree with any of their tenets, you should do the honorable thing and not accept communion.

-=Mike

...Heck, I'm not a Catholic. The Catholics I've known in my life tended to be borderline insane

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Communion isn't just exclusive to Catholics.

[Guest MikeSC]

Communion isn't just exclusive to Catholics.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm Methodist and we have communion once a year (I think --- I seldom go to church).

 

I've never taken communion in a Catholic Church.

 

If you accept communion in a Catholic Church, then you are accepting their belief structure --- whether you like it or not.

-=Mike

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

The Catholic Church Nutshell -

 

Abortion/Womens rights = Bad

 

Child Rape = Good

Stop being so ignorant.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Communion isn't just exclusive to Catholics.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm Methodist and we have communion once a year (I think --- I seldom go to church).

 

I've never taken communion in a Catholic Church.

 

If you accept communion in a Catholic Church, then you are accepting their belief structure --- whether you like it or not.

-=Mike

Very well. We have Communion pretty much every week at our Church (unless the minister can't make it for some reason).

[Guest MikeSC]

Communion isn't just exclusive to Catholics.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm Methodist and we have communion once a year (I think --- I seldom go to church).

 

I've never taken communion in a Catholic Church.

 

If you accept communion in a Catholic Church, then you are accepting their belief structure --- whether you like it or not.

-=Mike

Very well. We have Communion pretty much every week at our Church (unless the minister can't make it for some reason).

I'm a Methodist --- next best thing to an actual religion.

-=Mike

.."And then God said something...and then Jesus said something...ya da ya da ya da...you get the point."

[Guest SP-1]

I think it's funny because the bible doesn't even have a problem with abortion. Unless I missed something somewhere.

 

According to Ex. 21:22-25, an unborn baby isn't a human life.

This Exodus 21:22-25?

 

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's hisband demands and the court allows.  But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

--Exodus 21:22-25

 

Now, Hebrew is a tricky language sometimes. Being a biblical languages major, this comes up often and most bible translations provide footnotes. I'll explain why this is important in a later post.

 

But before I formulate a response, I want to ask how you draw that an unborn child isn't a life out of that particular passage.

[snuffbox 0]

The Catholic Church Nutshell -

 

Abortion/Womens rights = Bad

 

Child Rape = Good

Stop being so ignorant.

The Catholic church accounts for more child abuse than a million Neverland Ranches...

 

But they feel like they can tell people what they should do about their own sex lives....

 

Truth and ignorance arent the same thing, Bubba.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

The Catholic Church Nutshell -

 

Abortion/Womens rights = Bad

 

Child Rape = Good

Stop being so ignorant.

The Catholic church accounts for more child abuse than a million Neverland Ranches...

 

But they feel like they can tell people what they should do about their own sex lives....

 

Truth and ignorance arent the same thing, Bubba.

No, "the Catholic Church" doesn't account for any pedohpilia. A few members of the Catholic Church do, and their actions have not been condoned. What happened to the Bishop of Boston should be proof of that.

 

You're right, truth and ignorance AREN'T the same thing. You're ignorant.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I'd also like to point out that by saying "The Catholic Church" you're implying that every Catholic alive (Including 1 in 3 Christians in the USA) either rapes kids or allows it to happen.

 

You need to change your wording.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'd also like to point out that by saying "The Catholic Church" you're implying that every Catholic alive (Including 1 in 3 Christians in the USA) either rapes kids or allows it to happen.

 

You need to change your wording.

And ruin his flame?

-=Mike

[chaosrage 0]

This Exodus 21:22-25?

Read my post right below that one. The King James version doesn't say prematurely.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Wow, how fucked up is that?

 

"You're not in support of putting your RELIGIOUS BELIEF into LAW, so you're excommunicated."

 

Are they also threatening to excommunicate politicians who have sex outside of marriage or others who refuse to Push their personal beliefs into the law, or are we jsut talking about John Kerry?

[MrRant 0]

No. In general you are supposed to be excommunicated (if I remember correctly... been a long time) if you don't go with what the beliefs of the Church is. That is the whole reason you are of that particular denomination... you don't believe it... you aren't part of it.

[Guest MikeSC]

Wow, how fucked up is that?

 

"You're not in support of putting your RELIGIOUS BELIEF into LAW, so you're excommunicated."

 

Are they also threatening to excommunicate politicians who have sex outside of marriage or others who refuse to Push their personal beliefs into the law, or are we jsut talking about John Kerry?

If following the church's beliefs are impossible --- then the Church is clearly not for you.

-=Mike

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Kerry should not be denied Communion. He's a moron, he should be encouraged to stop publicizing his Catholicity, but not this way. No one would be a Catholic if they were excommunicated for not believing in every one of the Church's principles. This would set a terrible precedent.

[Guest MikeSC]

Kerry should not be denied Communion. He's a moron, he should be encouraged to stop publicizing his Catholicity, but not this way. No one would be a Catholic if they were excommunicated for not believing in every one of the Church's principles. This would set a terrible precedent.

Why should he receive communion? He supports a practice the Church abhors. Again, if you can't support your Church's beliefs --- then you're part of the wrong church.

 

If Kerry cannot abide by Catholic dogma, he can find another religion.

-=Mike

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Many Catholics are pro-death penalty and support the war. Church is against those too.

[Guest MikeSC]

Many Catholics are pro-death penalty and support the war. Church is against those too.

Is that Vatican law --- or simply a papal edict?

-=Mike

...And if the Church wishes to refuse them communion, it's their right

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I'm a Catholic and I don't agree with this AT ALL. It's spiritual blackmail.

While I can appreciate your view here, the Catholic Church should not simply change its views to keep with the times. There are fundamental right and wrong.

 

The Church does not approve of abortion. If Kerry disagrees with their stance, then they do have the right to excommunicate him.

 

He also has the right to choose another religion.

-=Mike

What about those of us that think churches shouldn't take political stances?

 

Pray, read your holy book, worship, etc. Fine with me. Religion and politics have never, EVER been good bedfellows.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm a Catholic and I don't agree with this AT ALL. It's spiritual blackmail.

While I can appreciate your view here, the Catholic Church should not simply change its views to keep with the times. There are fundamental right and wrong.

 

The Church does not approve of abortion. If Kerry disagrees with their stance, then they do have the right to excommunicate him.

 

He also has the right to choose another religion.

-=Mike

What about those of us that think churches shouldn't take political stances?

 

Pray, read your holy book, worship, etc. Fine with me. Religion and politics have never, EVER been good bedfellows.

The Church ISN'T politicizing anything.

 

They're saying "This is our belief system. If you cannot abide by them, then you are not a member of this church"

 

It's Kerry trying to keep his Catholicism as an integral part of his image in Boston that makes this political.

 

It'd be like expecting the NRA to keep a guy who hates gun as their President.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The Church ISN'T politicizing anything.

 

They're saying "This is our belief system. If you cannot abide by them, then you are not a member of this church"

Yes, they are politicizing. This new statement isn't issued towards ANYONE who's less than pro-life on abortion. Only politicians.

 

It's completely political.

[Guest SP-1]

And there's a reason for that. In the public eye, if the church is supporting a politician who supports a particular sensitive issue, then the church is supporting it as well. In this particular case, that can't happen.

 

chaos, regardless of what the King james words it as, I'd still like to know your particular reasoning for pulling that particular interpretation out of it.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I'd also like to point out that by saying "The Catholic Church" you're implying that every Catholic alive (Including 1 in 3 Christians in the USA) either rapes kids or allows it to happen.

It might not be condoned, but the Catholic Church didn't do much about the problem, either. Priests guilty of child molestation, regardless of their rank, should be jailed for the rest of their lives. The Church itself should be pushing for this to happen. Instead, they adopted a limp-wristed "three tykes and you're out" policy, and just transferred several repeat offenders to different districts.

 

Catholics who have a conscience should express their disapproval by leaving the church. Otherwise, tacit approval is still approval.

[Guest netslob]

The Catholic Church Nutshell -

 

Abortion/Womens rights = Bad

 

Child Rape = Good

exactly. they're against abortion because they want live babies so they can grow up to be supple altar boys.

[Firestarter 0]

I've got to agree with the Church on this one, frankly (although I agree more with Kerry's opinion on abortion than with hers, so no, I'm not just bashing Democrats here; and yes, I do disagree with the Church's position on the war and the death penalty as well). Abortion is only a political issue because it's an issue of morals and faith. (When does life begin? Whose life is more valuable, and is it ever right to trade one for another? Is all life sacred or not? Who has ultimate title to our bodies, we ourselves or God?) As such the Church has every right to take a position on the issue, according to her understanding of God's will (and remember that catechism that says the Apostolic Succession is expressly guided by the Holy Spirit?) and divine precedent. Agree or disagree with the opinion itself, it's simply not arguable that she has the absolute right to exclude from communion (which is blessing, forgiveness, and tacit endorsement) people who advocate and would be willing to legislate and enforce a point of view fundamentally opposed to hers.

[Guest Cerebus]

I'd also like to point out that by saying "The Catholic Church" you're implying that every Catholic alive (Including 1 in 3 Christians in the USA) either rapes kids or allows it to happen.

It might not be condoned, but the Catholic Church didn't do much about the problem, either. Priests guilty of child molestation, regardless of their rank, should be jailed for the rest of their lives. The Church itself should be pushing for this to happen. Instead, they adopted a limp-wristed "three tykes and you're out" policy, and just transferred several repeat offenders to different districts.

 

Catholics who have a conscience should express their disapproval by leaving the church. Otherwise, tacit approval is still approval.

I have a conscience but I have no plans for leaving the church. You're basically making a blanket statement that if all Catholics don't give up on their faith because of these sickening occurances we're giving a big thumbs up for child molsetation which is ludicrous. Do Jews who stay Jews despite the ravings of Meir Kahane deserve to be slapped as bigots? Should Baptists switch churches if they don't agree with Pat Robertson saying that "The Antichrist is probably a Jew alive in Israel today"? I despise the idea that many of these priests got a slap on the wrist or just transfers for what they did, but that won't mean I'm giving up on my faith because some bishops were more impotent than they should have been.

[snuffbox 0]

I'd also like to point out that by saying "The Catholic Church" you're implying that every Catholic alive (Including 1 in 3 Christians in the USA) either rapes kids or allows it to happen.

It might not be condoned, but the Catholic Church didn't do much about the problem, either. Priests guilty of child molestation, regardless of their rank, should be jailed for the rest of their lives. The Church itself should be pushing for this to happen. Instead, they adopted a limp-wristed "three tykes and you're out" policy, and just transferred several repeat offenders to different districts.

 

Catholics who have a conscience should express their disapproval by leaving the church. Otherwise, tacit approval is still approval.

I have a conscience but I have no plans for leaving the church. You're basically making a blanket statement that if all Catholics don't give up on their faith because of these sickening occurances we're giving a big thumbs up for child molsetation which is ludicrous. Do Jews who stay Jews despite the ravings of Meir Kahane deserve to be slapped as bigots? Should Baptists switch churches if they don't agree with Pat Robertson saying that "The Antichrist is probably a Jew alive in Israel today"? I despise the idea that many of these priests got a slap on the wrist or just transfers for what they did, but that won't mean I'm giving up on my faith because some bishops were more impotent than they should have been.

If my church closeted a child rapist...I would leave forever....

 

Why wouldnt you? Do you honestly believe God would rather you stay with an organized church that has caused so many heinous acts, or pray and worship elsewhere or alone?

[AndrewTS 0]

I'm a Catholic and I don't agree with this AT ALL. It's spiritual blackmail.

While I can appreciate your view here, the Catholic Church should not simply change its views to keep with the times.

They've done it before.

 

Yet, there are still very archaic teachings that the church stands firm on. No offense to any Catholics, but a lot of it makes no sense to me.

[chaosrage 0]

chaos, regardless of what the King james words it as, I'd still like to know your particular reasoning for pulling that particular interpretation out of it.

It clearly says that if a man hurts a woman, to take life for life, but if he only causes her to have a miscarriage, he just needs to pay an amount decided by the husband and the judges. (Because he didn't take a life) That's not an interpretation. It's just what the book says.