Should Kerry be Torecellied?

[Guest Cerebus]

OMGSESAMESTREETJOURNALOL2004!!! Italicized comments are mine.

 

Buyer's Remorse

Dems start to worry that Kerry can't win.

 

Monday, May 3, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

 

It's six months until the election, and Democrats are already having buyer's remorse. The Bush campaign "is kicking Kerry's ass every damn day," one prominent Democratic operative told the Washington Post last week. "Kerry hasn't owned one day in the news yet. Not one day!"

 

Some liberals are so frantic that they want to pull the plug. Village Voice columnist James Ridgeway says prominent Democrats should "sit down with the rich and arrogant presumptive nominee and try to persuade him to take a hike" and withdraw. Call that the Torricelli option, after the former New Jersey senator who was muscled out of the race by party elders.

 

That's not going to happen. First, John Forbes Kerry has wanted to be president ever since he hung around the Kennedy family compound as a teenager. He's not going to let any of the same pooh-bahs who only last December wrote him off as a primary contender drive him from the race now. Second, Mr. Kerry's convention delegates are loyal to him and not easily transferable. There was similar grumbling about dumping Bill Clinton in the summer of 1992 when he was running third in polls behind both George Bush and Ross Perot. Nothing came of it.

 

But that doesn't mean that the worries about John Kerry's electability are going away. Time magazine columnist Joe Klein says Mr. Kerry is "engulfed by the sort of people Howard Dean railed against: timid congressional Democratic staff members and some of the old Clinton crowd. . . . Kerry's may be the most sclerotic presidential campaign since Bob Dole's." Ouch. (Looks like Mike's not alone...)

 

Complaints about Mr. Kerry extend beyond his staff. John Weaver, who was strategist for John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign before he became a Democrat, calls Mr. Kerry's TV skills "abysmal. . . . I don't know if it's a stream of consciousness or stream of unconsciousness." MSNBC's Chris Matthews, who has lavished airtime on Mr. Kerry, is nonetheless frustrated with his elliptical speech patterns. "There's no such thing as a trick question with Kerry, because he won't answer it," he sighs. "We'll be having conversations afterward, and it's hard to get to him even then."

 

The few times that Mr. Kerry decides to abandon his nuanced reserve and programmed responses he can become argumentative and hectoring. ABC's Charlie Gibson asked him last Monday on "Good Morning America" to reconcile his inconsistent stories about whether he had flung his medals or merely his combat ribbons over the White House fence during a 1971 antiwar protest . After Mr. Gibson pointed out that he had covered the demonstration and had personally seen Mr. Kerry throwing medals away, the candidate replied: "Charlie, Charlie, you're wrong! That is not what happened. I threw my ribbons across. And all you have to do is go back and find the file footage." He then lapsed into incoherence. (I think he meant medals...)

 

Vaughn Ververs, the editor of the political newsletter Hotline, says Mr. Kerry's weak performances have led to "a good deal of hand-wringing among Democrats over the perception that one of Kerry's biggest strengths--his military service--seems to have become a liability."

 

One reason is that he began his presidential race talking far too much about Vietnam. (LOL2004!) My colleague James Taranto points out that in a December 2002 interview with NBC's Tim Russert, Mr. Kerry managed to work Vietnam into an answer about the death penalty. Robert Sam Anson, a Kerry friend who first met him during that same antiwar protest at which Mr. Kerry burst onto the national scene in 1971, concludes that Mr. Kerry is suffering from a desire to "explain away, deny, revise, trim or flat-out lie about all past events, beliefs and statements that got you the Democratic nomination in the first place. It happened to another friend of mine in 1972. His name was George McGovern. . . . See what happens when you ignore what Mother said about fibbing? No one's saying that Mr. Kerry's cooked. But McGovern parallels give him a toasted look he didn't get skiing in Sun Valley."

 

Liberals know they are stuck with Mr. Kerry, but that's not preventing them from worrying about his tendency to appear to take both sides of an issue. The irony is that Mr. Kerry has wanted the White House so badly, and for so long, that he has become almost a caricature of an opportunistic, programmed candidate. The resulting image turns off many voters who sense that not much is motivating him beyond blind ambition. For example, many voters may not feel comfortable with Mr. Bush's religious impulses and motivations, but they highlight the image he conveys of a sincere, committed leader.

 

It is traditional for party activists to grumble about their prospective nominee between the time he wraps up the primaries and when he is actually nominated. But the doubts about Mr. Kerry go beyond campaign kvetching. At times, they seem to verge on quiet panic.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

How could the Dems be against their Vietnam War Hero?

 

And speaking of everybody's favorite conflict: If people think Kerry talks too much about his stint there, listen to Terry McAwful go on about it. Ugh.

 

Oh, and Sesame Street Journal? Thumbs down...

[Guest Cerebus]

Oh, and Sesame Street Journal? Thumbs down...

Can YOU think of something better while at work?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Probably, but I got better things to do.

 

Like go out to lunch...

[Guest MikeSC]

I know Rush has mentioned that he is buying a question on Frank Lutz's next poll, asking Democratic voters if they had it to do over again, would they have supported somebody other than John Kerry.

 

The problem the Dems have is that they don't really have anybody else who can win. I hope none of them are hoping that Hillary will run as THAT will be quite the fiasco.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Oh lord.

 

There's a local right-wing radio morning host that's been saying Hillary will be the '04 nod for a while now. Please don't let this conspiracy spread here...

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh lord.

 

There's a local right-wing radio morning host that's been saying Hillary will be the '04 nod for a while now. Please don't let this conspiracy spread here...

I HOPE she runs because, well, she'd be annihilated.

 

I doubt they'll turf Kerry. You know how bad they'd look if they did that?

 

I mean, heck, that'd be attacking his Vietnam record and everything.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

The Democrats would be unpatriotic if they did this.

 

Wait a second...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I believe the bad joke you were looking to run into the ground was Wal-Mart Journal 2004.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I was thinking more along the lines of "Wall of lies" or something of the sort.

 

Oh, and how can anyone not want this man to be POTUS?...

 

[KingPK 0]

I saw on the news that Kerry fell off his bike yesterday. The anchorman made sure to point out that not only was Kerry unhurt, the BICYCLE was taken to a repair shop and will be just fine.

 

Get well soon!!!!

[Vyce 0]

I doubt they'll turf Kerry. You know how bad they'd look if they did that?

 

I mean, heck, that'd be attacking his Vietnam record and everything.

-=Mike

This may be obscure, but are you familiar with the Mallard Fillmore comic strip?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

It'll never happen.

[MrRant 0]

Should we trust Tyler at all? Especially with his confidence in Dean?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I think Tyler's just setting us all up for some big behind-the-scenes powerplay that's about to go down...

[NoCalMike 0]

Well it seems like we are headed for another tight race, so I am not sure where all this "Kerry can't win" nonsense is coming from. Especially at this point, when nothing has really indicated either candidate stomping the other one.

[Guest MikeSC]

I was thinking more along the lines of "Wall of lies" or something of the sort.

 

Oh, and how can anyone not want this man to be POTUS?...

 

And how much was his bike worth?

 

According to Drudge, $6,000.

 

Which, he admitted, begged an obvious question:

 

Who on God's Earth has a $6,000 bike?

Well it seems like we are headed for another tight race, so I am not sure where all this "Kerry can't win" nonsense is coming from. Especially at this point, when nothing has really indicated either candidate stomping the other one

The concern seems to be this:

1) Kerry seems to spend every single day having to defend himself.

2) There is zero energy behind his campaign --- again, it's like Dole 1996.

3) Though this hasn't been said, the dearth of minorities in his campaign is not going to inspire a lot of minorities to get out and vote.

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

The concern seems to be this:

1) Kerry seems to spend every single day having to defend himself.

2) There is zero energy behind his campaign --- again, it's like Dole 1996.

3) Though this hasn't been said, the dearth of minorities in his campaign is not going to inspire a lot of minorities to get out and vote.

-=Mike

Ok, well every poll that has shown Bush with the lead has been within the margin of error. None of your reasons listed has done anything to change the numbers so far. All I am saying is that it is too early and to little to backup any claim that "Kerry CAN'T win"

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

But that doesn't mean that the worries about John Kerry's electability are going away. Time magazine columnist Joe Klein says Mr. Kerry is "engulfed by the sort of people Howard Dean railed against: timid congressional Democratic staff members and some of the old Clinton crowd. . . . Kerry's may be the most sclerotic presidential campaign since Bob Dole's." Ouch. (Looks like Mike's not alone...)

 

I find using the Dean campaign as anything other than as what NOT to do to be totally comical. Kerry for all his faults will at least win states and keep it somewhat close unlike Dean who was going to give the McGovern and Mondale campaigns a run for worst ever.

[Guest Cerebus]

The concern seems to be this:

1) Kerry seems to spend every single day having to defend himself.

2) There is zero energy behind his campaign --- again, it's like Dole 1996.

3) Though this hasn't been said, the dearth of minorities in his campaign is not going to inspire a lot of minorities to get out and vote.

        -=Mike

Ok, well every poll that has shown Bush with the lead has been within the margin of error. None of your reasons listed has done anything to change the numbers so far. All I am saying is that it is too early and to little to backup any claim that "Kerry CAN'T win"

Most of the stuff article pointed to an unfocused campaign and bad tv skills. The former could change but I wouldn't put any money on the latter.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The Bush campaign "is kicking Kerry's ass every damn day," one prominent Democratic operative told the Washington Post last week. "Kerry hasn't owned one day in the news yet. Not one day!"

 

Uh... Who? Because Time quoted some equally unnamed Bushie as saying that they were really sweating bullets in the time after Iowa and New Hampshire.

 

Village Voice columnist James Ridgeway says prominent Democrats should "sit down with the rich and arrogant presumptive nominee and try to persuade him to take a hike" and withdraw.

 

And who steps up? Dennis Kucinich? Howard "The Scream" Dean?

 

The simple fact is all Kerry needs to do is surround himself with competant people. Nobody cares if he's rich, ignorant, or stupid, because the guy he's running against is rich, ignorant, and stupid.

 

Vaughn Ververs, the editor of the political newsletter Hotline, says Mr. Kerry's weak performances have led to "a good deal of hand-wringing among Democrats over the perception that one of Kerry's biggest strengths--his military service--seems to have become a liability."

 

How? Obviously, he HAS talked about it too much. This medals thing was a manufactured crisis, I figured it was coming from the time when Marney warned me about it in another thread. I'm suprised it took so long to take to the forefront.

 

I'm still bowled over that someone is suprised that he lied about something 30 years ago.

 

Liberals know they are stuck with Mr. Kerry, but that's not preventing them from worrying about his tendency to appear to take both sides of an issue.

 

Because, hey, withdrawing your position on nation building, withdrawing your position on gay marriage (Cheney), withdrawing your position on Hussein's regime and bringing a Republican Guard top dog to protect Iraq. No, none of these are flip-flops.

 

Kerry was not my first choice. Or my second choice. I first noticed his out-of-order priorities when he abandoned the Medicare voting to go campaign some more. Still, people are beginning to realize he'll be better for the economy, he probably can't get any worse on Iraq despite what the Bush ads want you to believe, etc.

 

In short:

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

And how much was his bike worth?

 

According to Drudge, $6,000.

 

Which, he admitted, begged an obvious question:

 

Who on God's Earth has a $6,000 bike?

I have some friends whose bikes run an upwards up $4000-5000. Mine only cost $1000, some bikes have a front suspension that costs more than that alone. I'm not sure how that bike Kerry is riding costs $6000 though, unless it's a Tour de France level road cycle. Anyone know the manufacturer?

[EricMM 0]

Yea stop knocking the bike!

 

I wish mines cost that much. With that kind of bike, one can really move

[AndrewTS 0]

Time magazine columnist Joe Klein says Mr. Kerry is "engulfed by the sort of people Howard Dean railed against: timid congressional Democratic staff members and some of the old Clinton crowd. . . . Kerry's may be the most sclerotic presidential campaign since Bob Dole's." Ouch.

...

John Weaver, who was strategist for John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign before he became a Democrat, calls Mr. Kerry's TV skills "abysmal. . . . I don't know if it's a stream of consciousness or stream of unconsciousness." MSNBC's Chris Matthews, who has lavished airtime on Mr. Kerry, is nonetheless frustrated with his elliptical speech patterns. "There's no such thing as a trick question with Kerry, because he won't answer it," he sighs. "We'll be having conversations afterward, and it's hard to get to him even then."

...

The resulting image turns off many voters who sense that not much is motivating him beyond blind ambition.

 

Pretty much that's what doesn't make me at all enthused about this presidential race, and frankly rather apathetic towards Kerry as a candidate. Even before it was pared down to Kerry, I shook my head and wondered "is this the best that they can do?" The economy is uncertain, there's growing discontent about Iraq, and you'd think a competent campaign and candidate would sweep in and clean up. Not so. I agree Mike seems to be overestimating Bush's advantage, although I would be somewhat surprised if Kerry were to actually be elected.

 

Naturally, Hillary would be the best choice for Democratic nominee...if you're a Bush-supporting Republican.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I wish mines cost that much. With that kind of bike, one can really move

Yeah.

 

Straight to the pavement...

[Guest Cerebus]

The simple fact is all Kerry needs to do is surround himself with competant people. Nobody cares if he's rich, ignorant, or stupid, because the guy he's running against is rich, ignorant, and stupid.

 

People said the same about Bush. And I don't know why you think this either, 30% of voters are swing (as of that report), you really think just saying "this guy isn't Bush" is going to win them over? If the Democrats honestly believe that, they're in for a rude awakening.

 

How? Obviously, he HAS talked about it too much. This medals thing was a manufactured crisis, I figured it was coming from the time when Marney warned me about it in another thread. I'm suprised it took so long to take to the forefront.

 

It could have been a manufactured crisis IF he had been clear and upfront about it. His appearance on Good Morning America had me cringing...and I'm not even a Democrat.

 

Because, hey, withdrawing your position on nation building, withdrawing your position on gay marriage (Cheney), withdrawing your position on Hussein's regime and bringing a Republican Guard top dog to protect Iraq. No, none of these are flip-flops.

 

Your point is, presumbly, Bush flip-flops too. I agree, but the best way to counter it is to have another guy who flip flops? Riiiight.

 

Kerry was not my first choice. Or my second choice. I first noticed his out-of-order priorities when he abandoned the Medicare voting to go campaign some more. Still, people are beginning to realize he'll be better for the economy, he probably can't get any worse on Iraq despite what the Bush ads want you to believe, etc.

 

In short:

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

 

You (or maybe someone else...not sure) posted that before and its still not funny. As for the rest of it, see my first comment.

[Vyce 0]

Kerry was not my first choice. Or my second choice. I first noticed his out-of-order priorities when he abandoned the Medicare voting to go campaign some more.

But you're voting for him anyway because A.B.B.LOL2004!!!

 

Christ, it's come to this.

 

Some days, I really do think that maybe we were kind of just a little too eager to do away with that whole "ruled by a monarchy" thing.

[NoCalMike 0]

Kerry was not my first choice. Or my second choice. I first noticed his out-of-order priorities when he abandoned the Medicare voting to go campaign some more.

But you're voting for him anyway because A.B.B.LOL2004!!!

 

Christ, it's come to this.

 

Some days, I really do think that maybe we were kind of just a little too eager to do away with that whole "ruled by a monarchy" thing.

I'm not.

[Guest thebigjig]

Kerry was not my first choice. Or my second choice. I first noticed his out-of-order priorities when he abandoned the Medicare voting to go campaign some more.

But you're voting for him anyway because A.B.B.LOL2004!!!

 

Christ, it's come to this.

 

Some days, I really do think that maybe we were kind of just a little too eager to do away with that whole "ruled by a monarchy" thing.

George W. Christ, that LOL2004 shit is so fucking annoying...

 

anyway, the ABB sentiment isn't really that hard to understand... we dont like Kerry all that much, but we think Bush is 100X worse, therefor, we go with the lesser of two evils... I mean, fuck, you're acting as if this kind of mentality is something we've NEVER experienced before

[Styles 0]

George W. Christ, that LOL2004 shit is so fucking annoying...

GeorgeW.ChristLOL2004~!!!!11111

 

oh, wait...