It just gets worse and worse

[bobobrazil1984 0]

I picked this article up off Drudge. It's mostly a standard story about Rumseld's comments about more photos and videos out there... but this story tells whats on those...

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

 

Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.†The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.

 

[Guest MikeSC]

I picked this article up off Drudge. It's mostly a standard story about Rumseld's comments about more photos and videos out there... but this story tells whats on those...

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

 

Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.†The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.

 

See? We ADMIT our problems and PUNISH people who do wrong.

 

I wish more countries did that.

-=Mike

[bobobrazil1984 0]

^ Uh... yeah. I didnt say or imply anything to the contrary in my intial post you're responding to... so............ ?

[Guest MikeSC]

^ Uh... yeah. I didnt say or imply anything to the contrary in my intial post you're responding to... so............ ?

Didn't say you did imply anything.

-=Mike

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

I'm glad to see the country apologizing for something like this.

 

But Mike--you've been saying all along that this wasn't torture. If prisoners are getting the shit beat out of them, and if there is forced sex with an inmate, would you not call that torture?

 

It's a sad reflection on the entire military, and calls into question where in the chain-of-command this happened.

[Styles 0]

It's a sad reflection on the entire military

See, I think that's unfair. It shouldn't be a reflection on the entire military, but only the shitheads who did it, and their superiors who allowed it.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm glad to see the country apologizing for something like this.

 

But Mike--you've been saying all along that this wasn't torture. If prisoners are getting the shit beat out of them, and if there is forced sex with an inmate, would you not call that torture?

All I've seen are humiliation photos. If it includes physical violence and rape then, yes, the soldiers should be punished.

 

However, we should not apologize.

It's a sad reflection on the entire military, and calls into question where in the chain-of-command this happened.

Hey, bad people are everywhere. I could more easily use this to condemn gender integration in the army than to use criticize the entire military for this.

-=Mike

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

they should be punished even if it was just humilation. It's conduct unbecoming a soldier.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

A female Iraqi prisoner? They let women be in their military?

[BX 0]

Damn, it's almost like they are running a rape room over there or something.

[Guest hunger4unger]

I refuse to take anyone who defends the actions of the torturers seriously. This is just plain disgusting and any "face" America had in this illegal invasion has now all gone. Beating male prisoners was awful. Rape is just beyond words. It's worth noting that these acts of torture are not single incidents - they are widespread over periods of time. The culprits have brought shame to the armed forces and to America.

[Guest MikeSC]

I refuse to take anyone who defends the actions of the torturers seriously.

wow, we join the hunger4unger group of irrelevancy?

This is just plain disgusting and any "face" America had in this illegal invasion has now all gone.

Because, God knows, before any of this was known, you didn't say, well, the exact same thing.

Beating male prisoners was awful.

Quite bluntly, cry me a friggin' river.

Rape is just beyond words.

Care to show the rape?

 

Heck, people are being disciplined BEFORE anything is fully known.

 

Unlike MOST countries, we don't hide.

It's worth noting that these acts of torture are not single incidents - they are widespread over periods of time. The culprits have brought shame to the armed forces and to America.

Losing your respect is a bitter pill, truly, to swallow --- but I think I can pull it off with remarkable aplomb.

-=Mike

[Guest hunger4unger]

I refuse to take anyone who defends the actions of the torturers seriously.

wow, we join the hunger4unger group of irrelevancy?

 

Torture is irrelevant?!

This is just plain disgusting and any "face" America had in this illegal invasion has now all gone.

Because, God knows, before any of this was known, you didn't say, well, the exact same thing.

 

Yep and it applies even more so now.

 

Beating male prisoners was awful.

Quite bluntly, cry me a friggin' river.

 

It WAS awful. America is recieving world wide condemnation for the torture.

 

Rape is just beyond words.

Care to show the rape?

 

The pictures will be out over the next two days.

 

Heck, people are being disciplined BEFORE anything is fully known.

 

Heh, Rumsfeld knew back in July LAST YEAR.

 

Unlike MOST countries, we don't hide.

 

Who hides?

 

It's worth noting that these acts of torture are not single incidents - they are widespread over periods of time. The culprits have brought shame to the armed forces and to America.

 

Losing your respect is a bitter pill, truly, to swallow --- but I think I can pull it off with remarkable aplomb.

-=Mike

 

You've lost your respect for the troops carrying out the torture? I never knew you had it in you Mike.

 

So, to sum up: Expressing one's distaste for torture is wrong, torture is irrelevant, everything is going to plan in Iraq, we were justified going in and somone hides (it' not clear who.)

 

Get a grip here Mike.

 

Edit: My quote editing skills are pretty lame.

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

I refuse to take anyone who defends the actions of the torturers seriously.

wow, we join the hunger4unger group of irrelevancy?

 

Torture is irrelevant?!

This is just plain disgusting and any "face" America had in this illegal invasion has now all gone.

Because, God knows, before any of this was known, you didn't say, well, the exact same thing.

 

Yep and it applies even more so now.

 

Beating male prisoners was awful.

Quite bluntly, cry me a friggin' river.

 

It WAS awful. America is recieving world wide condemnation for the torture.

 

Rape is just beyond words.

Care to show the rape?

 

The pictures will be out over the next two days.

 

Heck, people are being disciplined BEFORE anything is fully known.

 

Heh, Rumsfeld knew back in July LAST YEAR.

 

Unlike MOST countries, we don't hide.

 

Who hides?

 

It's worth noting that these acts of torture are not single incidents - they are widespread over periods of time. The culprits have brought shame to the armed forces and to America.

 

Losing your respect is a bitter pill, truly, to swallow --- but I think I can pull it off with remarkable aplomb.

-=Mike

 

You've lost your respect for the troops carrying out the torture? I never knew you had it in you Mike.

 

So, to sum up: Expressing one's distaste for torture is wrong, torture is irrelevant, everything is going to plan in Iraq, we were justified going in and somone hides (it' not clear who.)

 

Get a grip here Mike.

 

Edit: My quote editing skills are pretty lame.

And fellow liberals: here is the fuel for the fire that will lead to the election of Mr. Bush come November.

 

Let me count the ways of your idiotic reasoning:

 

#1: Unfortunately, Mike is somewhat right in his assessment. We haven't seen the evidence of true physical torture. Emotional torture is admissable in prisoner of war situations. So until there is evidence of physical abuse, you'll need to can it.

 

#2: The current operation in Iraq? Legal. Next.

 

#3: Guess what. All the torture we are being accused of ain't shit compared to anything else. Bataan Death March. The Holocaust. Hell, even containment camps here in the US during WWII. This isn't shit.

 

#4: As pissed off as I am about the face some of the soldiers have put on the face of America, I'm going to need more evidence. If and when it does come out, then you'll see the firestorm. So until that point in time: just keep your damn keyboard to yourself.

 

Evidently, your posting skills are just about as "lame" as your editing ones.

 

Thanks for calling, and please read Dr. Denis Leary's latest book, "Shut the Fuck Up."

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Soldiers Back in U.S. Tell of More Iraq Abuses

By Adam Tanner

 

ANTIOCH, California (Reuters) - Three U.S. military policemen who served at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison said on Thursday they had witnessed unreported cases of prisoner abuse and that the practice against Iraqis was commonplace.

 

"It is a common thing to abuse prisoners," said Sgt. Mike Sindar, 25, of the Army National Guard's 870th Military Police Company based in the San Francisco Bay area. "I saw beatings all the time.

 

"A lot of people had so much pent-up anger, so much aggression," he said. Sindar and the other military policemen, who have returned to California from Iraq, spoke in interviews with Reuters.

 

U.S. treatment of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib has stirred wide international condemnation after the publication of photos in recent days showing Americans sexually humiliating prisoners. Six soldiers in Iraq have been charged in the case and President Bush apologized publicly on Thursday.

 

Although public attention has focused on the dehumanizing photos, some members of the 870th MP unit say the faces in those images were not the only ones engaged in cruel behavior.

 

"It was not just these six people," said Sindar, the group's nuclear, biological and chemical weapons specialist. "Yes, the beatings happen, yes, all the time."

 

An officer in their group was reprimanded last year after holding down a prisoner for other men to beat, Sindar told Reuters. Sindar and fellow military policeman Ramon Leal said they saw hooded prisoners with racial taunts written on the hoods such as "camel jockey' or slogans such as "I tried to kill an American but now I'm in jail."

 

Leal said one female soldier in his unit fired off a slingshot into a crowd of prisoners. Sindar, who was familiar with the incident, said one person was injured.

 

 

Another group of soldiers knocked a 14-year-old boy to the ground as he arrived at the prison and then twisted his arm, Sindar and Leal said.

 

"The soldiers were laughing at him," said Leal. "I saw the other soldiers that would take out their frustrations on the prisoners."

 

Until earlier this year prisoners would arrive at Abu Ghraib with broken bones, suggesting they had been roughed up, he said. But the practice ended in January or February, as practices at the prison were coming under increased internal scrutiny.

 

Photos obtained by Reuters show U.S. soldiers looking into body bags of three Iraqi prisoners killed by 870th MP guards during a prison riot in the fall of 2003. One photograph shows a bearded man with much of his bloodied forehead removed by the force of a bullet.

 

"We were constantly being attacked, we had terrible support ... also being extended all the time, a lot of us had problems with our loved ones suffering from depression," said another of the military policemen, Spc. Dave Bischel. "It all contributes to the psychological component of soldiers when they get stressed."

 

The Californians' remarks were unusual, as U.S. soldiers have been reluctant to speak out in public on the issue.

 

Some say investigators went out of their way to keep the allegations under wraps. When military investigators were looking into abuses several months ago, they gave U.S. guards a week's notice before inspecting their possessions, several soldiers said.

 

"That shows you how lax they are about discipline. 'We are going to look for contraband in here, so hint, hint, get rid of the stuff,' that's the way things work in the Guard," Leal said.

http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp...32.htm&sc=rontz

[Guest MikeSC]

I refuse to take anyone who defends the actions of the torturers seriously.

wow, we join the hunger4unger group of irrelevancy?

Torture is irrelevant?!

No --- who you take seriously is.

This is just plain disgusting and any "face" America had in this illegal invasion has now all gone.

Because, God knows, before any of this was known, you didn't say, well, the exact same thing.

Yep and it applies even more so now.

Heck, we shoulda been like the U.N and just exploited the Iraqis for our own benefit.

Beating male prisoners was awful.

Quite bluntly, cry me a friggin' river.

It WAS awful. America is recieving world wide condemnation for the torture.

We get condemnation when we sneeze. We've learned to live our lives regardless.

 

And, again, with the fiasco of the UN Oil for Food program --- a lot of our critics might wish to shut up quickly.

Rape is just beyond words.

Care to show the rape?

The pictures will be out over the next two days.

Good, then I'll wait for it. Heck, after the Jenin non-story, I've learned to not trust the int'l press.

Heck, people are being disciplined BEFORE anything is fully known.

Heh, Rumsfeld knew back in July LAST YEAR.

Which doesn't change that the only reason the world knows of this is because WE TOLD THEM.

Unlike MOST countries, we don't hide.

Who hides?

Care to go into how many European leaders were basically on Saddam's payroll?

It's worth noting that these acts of torture are not single incidents - they are widespread over periods of time. The culprits have brought shame to the armed forces and to America.

Losing your respect is a bitter pill, truly, to swallow --- but I think I can pull it off with remarkable aplomb.

-=Mike

You've lost your respect for the troops carrying out the torture? I never knew you had it in you Mike.

Well, I guess pulling quotes out of your ass is better than your usual alternatives...

So, to sum up: Expressing one's distaste for torture is wrong, torture is irrelevant, everything is going to plan in Iraq, we were justified going in and somone hides (it' not clear who.)

Nope. We will deal with the problem, but we don't owe the world a damned thing.

Get a grip here Mike.

 

Edit: My quote editing skills are pretty lame

No joke. I cleaned it up the best I could.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Soldiers Back in U.S. Tell of More Iraq Abuses

By Adam Tanner

 

ANTIOCH, California (Reuters) - Three U.S. military policemen who served at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison said on Thursday they had witnessed unreported cases of prisoner abuse and that the practice against Iraqis was commonplace.

 

"It is a common thing to abuse prisoners," said Sgt. Mike Sindar, 25, of the Army National Guard's 870th Military Police Company based in the San Francisco Bay area. "I saw beatings all the time.

 

"A lot of people had so much pent-up anger, so much aggression," he said. Sindar and the other military policemen, who have returned to California from Iraq, spoke in interviews with Reuters.

 

U.S. treatment of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib has stirred wide international condemnation after the publication of photos in recent days showing Americans sexually humiliating prisoners. Six soldiers in Iraq have been charged in the case and President Bush apologized publicly on Thursday.

 

Although public attention has focused on the dehumanizing photos, some members of the 870th MP unit say the faces in those images were not the only ones engaged in cruel behavior.

 

"It was not just these six people," said Sindar, the group's nuclear, biological and chemical weapons specialist. "Yes, the beatings happen, yes, all the time."

 

An officer in their group was reprimanded last year after holding down a prisoner for other men to beat, Sindar told Reuters. Sindar and fellow military policeman Ramon Leal said they saw hooded prisoners with racial taunts written on the hoods such as "camel jockey' or slogans such as "I tried to kill an American but now I'm in jail."

 

Leal said one female soldier in his unit fired off a slingshot into a crowd of prisoners. Sindar, who was familiar with the incident, said one person was injured.

 

 

Another group of soldiers knocked a 14-year-old boy to the ground as he arrived at the prison and then twisted his arm, Sindar and Leal said.

 

"The soldiers were laughing at him," said Leal. "I saw the other soldiers that would take out their frustrations on the prisoners."

 

Until earlier this year prisoners would arrive at Abu Ghraib with broken bones, suggesting they had been roughed up, he said. But the practice ended in January or February, as practices at the prison were coming under increased internal scrutiny.

 

Photos obtained by Reuters show U.S. soldiers looking into body bags of three Iraqi prisoners killed by 870th MP guards during a prison riot in the fall of 2003. One photograph shows a bearded man with much of his bloodied forehead removed by the force of a bullet.

 

"We were constantly being attacked, we had terrible support ... also being extended all the time, a lot of us had problems with our loved ones suffering from depression," said another of the military policemen, Spc. Dave Bischel. "It all contributes to the psychological component of soldiers when they get stressed."

 

The Californians' remarks were unusual, as U.S. soldiers have been reluctant to speak out in public on the issue.

 

Some say investigators went out of their way to keep the allegations under wraps. When military investigators were looking into abuses several months ago, they gave U.S. guards a week's notice before inspecting their possessions, several soldiers said.

 

"That shows you how lax they are about discipline. 'We are going to look for contraband in here, so hint, hint, get rid of the stuff,' that's the way things work in the Guard," Leal said.

http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp...32.htm&sc=rontz

Wow, so because this soldier was a sick little freak makes our military bad?

 

Heck, punish this little turd for what he did.

-=Mike

[BX 0]

It isn't just one little turd, Mike.

[Cartman 0]

You have to forgive the narrow minded.

 

It's truly amazing how some people can live with themseves when they think everything America does is right and just NO MATTER WHAT. There are two sides to every coin, just like there are two sides to every story you may read.

[Guest MikeSC]

It isn't just one little turd, Mike.

It's a few little turds, and they'll all be dealt with by us. We shouldn't broadcast any of this to the world.

You have to forgive the narrow minded.

 

It's truly amazing how some people can live with themseves when they think everything America does is right and just NO MATTER WHAT. There are two sides to every coin, just like there are two sides to every story you may read.

The ironic thing is that you don't realize how hypocritical you were in this post.

-=Mike

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

A female Iraqi prisoner? They let women be in their military?

Nope. This isn't a military prison. The prisoners aren't soldiers or Ba'athists or Taliban or al Qaeda. It's a civilian prison.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

It isn't just one little turd, Mike.

It's a few little turds, and they'll all be dealt with by us. We shouldn't broadcast any of this to the world.

but then it'd be a coverup and if any other country did it we'd all jump on them.

[Guest MikeSC]

It isn't just one little turd, Mike.

It's a few little turds, and they'll all be dealt with by us. We shouldn't broadcast any of this to the world.

but then it'd be a coverup and if any other country did it we'd all jump on them.

If they punished them, we wouldn't CARE.

 

We don't owe the world a damned thing.

 

The world exploited Iraq through the Oil-For-Food program, giving Saddam millions to butcher his people.

 

They lost their right to have any righteous indignation.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Heck, here's a GREAT idea

New York, Washington Declared Muslim Holy Cities

(2004-05-09) -- In a move designed to prevent future enemy attacks, the city councils of Washington D.C. and New York City today unanimously approved resolutions declaring both metropolitan areas "Muslim holy cities like Najaf, Kufa and Karbala in Iraq."

 

The idea for the designation came after weeks of media reports indicating that U.S.-led Coalition forces are reluctant to arrest or retaliate against alleged-murderer and militant Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr because he hides in Najaf, a Muslim holy city.

 

"If we had realized that being a Muslim holy city puts you off limits for attack, 9/11 would never have happened," said the city councils in a rare joint-resolution. "We encourage other major American cities to follow our example and change their official designations from 'soft target' to 'Muslim holy city'."

www.scrappleface.com

-=Mike

[Ripper 0]

Okay...so in this folder, where "Fuck the arabs" has been posted more than once when talking about the middle east because of what some terroist have done...the same one where I have read the whole "just blow up the whole area" thing, people are BITCHING because the world is saying that these soldiers are making all ofthe soldiers look bad?

 

There is a whole lot of hypocracy going on in m'yeah.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Last I checked the United States was part of the world and the UN. It's laughable to suggest America hasn't used other nations to get things too.

[Guest MikeSC]

Last I checked the United States was part of the world and the UN. It's laughable to suggest America hasn't used other nations to get things too.

Nothing to the extent of Oil-For-Food.

 

Nothing approaches it.

 

It's as good a reason as any to disband the useless U.N.

-=Mike

[Guest hunger4unger]

I would say that invading Iraq purely for Oil and killing 10,000 Iraqi people and 2,000 coalition troops is a tad worse then the oil for food debacle.

[Ripper 0]

I would say that invading Iraq purely for Oil and killing 10,000 Iraqi people and 2,000 coalition troops is a tad worse then the oil for food debacle.

deja vu~!

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

A female Iraqi prisoner? They let women be in their military?

Nope. This isn't a military prison. The prisoners aren't soldiers or Ba'athists or Taliban or al Qaeda. It's a civilian prison.

Then how do they get POW rights in the first place? This is just a person in jail. People get beat up in jail.