Raw Ratings Jump

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

For anyone who may think of a boat jumper, I've been a Kane fan for everything, including the horrible Taker feud, Shane feud, and Edge feud. UGH. He did NOT deserve that.

 

For a man who has done EVERYTHING the company has made him do, like Necrophillia, and being Edge's bitch, he still remains over.

[Guest Choken One]

HHH/HBK-12/29 didn't garner huge ratings dispite 2 weeks of hype...

Actually, the overrun that week got something in the mid-4s, despite a 3.7 overall for the show.

 

SummerSlam and Survivor Series 2002 did good business although a stacked card and a new gimmick can take a good bulk of the credit as they were determining factors.

 

Brock/Rock was the selling factor for Slam 2002 anyways.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I'm sure Edge / Kane would've been better if Edge didn't break his hand.

[Guest wildpegasus]

 

 

And I predict there will be a standing ovation if Benoit wrestles Jericho at the July Raw PPV. The Kane match will be a good possability too.

dont worry...I'll make sure the crowd gives Benoit his rightful Standing O.

Choken one, you are a true smark at heart. I'm so proud of you I'm shedding a tear here. Just think that you could be responsable for a chain reaction that leads to a standing ovation which it itself would lead to your name pernamently being showcased in the Official Chris Benoit Official Standing Ovation List.

 

 

BTW, what happened to your post count? Did you get so high that you had to start over again at 0? Is that what happens once you past the 999,999 mark? You're a brave, brave man to cross that line.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

There's a RAW PPV in July also now?!! Jesus Christ...

[Guest Choken One]

For anyone who may think of a boat jumper, I've been a Kane fan for everything, including the horrible Taker feud, Shane feud, and Edge feud. UGH. He did NOT deserve that.

 

For a man who has done EVERYTHING the company has made him do, like Necrophillia, and being Edge's bitch, he still remains over.

Which begs the question...

 

 

Is Vince giving Kane the long over due Title Push (that he should have gotten last fall instead of the convulted SuperShane angle) because of his loyalty (clearly, no one is more loyal then Glenn Jacobs)? Because He knows that he doesn't want to blow a Jericho/Benoit or Benoit/Edge with Shawn/HHH being the focal part of the ppv anyways? Because Kane proved himself to be a huge draw last year? Or most likely, wanted to give Benoit someone that he would have to WORK to have a good match with (although Kane is heads and shoulders above Bradshaw in talent and ability...he's still kane)?

 

Or was Kane Random?

[Guest Choken One]

 

 

And I predict there will be a standing ovation if Benoit wrestles Jericho at the July Raw PPV. The Kane match will be a good possability too.

dont worry...I'll make sure the crowd gives Benoit his rightful Standing O.

Choken one, you are a true smark at heart. I'm so proud of you I'm shedding a tear here. Just think that you could be responsable for a chain reaction that leads to a standing ovation which it itself would lead to your name pernamently being showcased in the Official Chris Benoit Official Standing Ovation List.

 

 

BTW, what happened to your post count? Did you get so high that you had to start over again at 0? Is that what happens once you past the 999,999 mark? You're a brave, brave man to cross that line.

I simply hit the restart button.

 

I felt it was pointless and didn't matter and it took away from me as a poster...people focused to much on the fact I had 19,999 posts...

 

 

and I'm touched you would do such a thing...actually I believe there will be an assortment of Smarks at the show...We'll boo the verloving fuck out of shawn and chant Benoit all night long.

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

In one of the smarkier areas of the country, at that?

I like how Massachusetts only became a "smarky area" after Worchester booed Goldberg's debut at Backlash.

 

Hard feelings?

Hard feelings? Hardly.

 

It can't be, as I haven't really cared for any of the product (save for Eddy winning the title), in about a year and a half now.

 

On Golberg: He's nowhere near great, but they pretty much blew everything they did with him. My bitterness has to deal with the mass stupidity that ran through here after his debut, with every two words being "Fuck Golberg". It was almost like the place had dropped IQ levels by about fifty points..but that's for another time.

 

It's just sad that one of the only anti "Benoit is bland" defenses is -always- the standing ovation. Referencing Kahran's post up there about home areas..it's just nothing suprising, or nothing special when a wrestler gets a reaction in "their" region. The northeast/Canada has always seemed to be one of the "smarkier" areas the WWE runs through, and that's why I said it.

 

I don't care for Benoit, but I won't go around slamming him every chance I get.

 

Why did he get the belt? In my view, there's none of this "He deserved it" stuff, but in their (WWE's) reasoning, he was the guy to push at the time.

 

He's been booked well, if you compare who he's been booked against. Anyone who's a legitimate threat to Trips and HBK at the same time will get respect from the crowd. It's not that hard to realize, especially when those two guys have ben at the top of the promotion for a long while now. Benoit is the ONLY guy that's been made to look somewhat like a threat to Michaels and Hunter in forever. That's why they've been feuding so long, because credible guys either couldn't wrestle, or had been buried long since.

 

(Particularly knowing that he's gonna lose the belt sometime. Then this sentiment that "Raw's so great" will magically turn around overnight. )

[Guest wildpegasus]

For anyone who may think of a boat jumper, I've been a Kane fan for everything, including the horrible Taker feud, Shane feud, and Edge feud. UGH. He did NOT deserve that.

 

For a man who has done EVERYTHING the company has made him do, like Necrophillia, and being Edge's bitch, he still remains over.

Which begs the question...

 

 

Is Vince giving Kane the long over due Title Push (that he should have gotten last fall instead of the convulted SuperShane angle) because of his loyalty (clearly, no one is more loyal then Glenn Jacobs)? Because He knows that he doesn't want to blow a Jericho/Benoit or Benoit/Edge with Shawn/HHH being the focal part of the ppv anyways? Because Kane proved himself to be a huge draw last year? Or most likely, wanted to give Benoit someone that he would have to WORK to have a good match with (although Kane is heads and shoulders above Bradshaw in talent and ability...he's still kane)?

 

Or was Kane Random?

You know, I'm going to have to go into conspiracy mode here. Benoit and Kane are being set up to fail by whoever. I've never minded Kane as a worker. The only thing I hated was that zombie situp. Benoit of course is my favourite wrestler. Still, they didn't mesh as well as one would hope in 2000 as they had kind of a styles clash. They were short matches and I imagine they would've put together a better match if given some time to work with but nonetheless Kane was one of Benoit's worst opponents. Now going into the PPV we have Benoit going against Kane and the other true main event of HHH vs Michaels. Benoit vs Kane is not supposed to show up HHH vs Michaels but apparently it is going to as the house show reports of the Benoit/Kane matches have been pretty positive. I suspected that their matches would be pretty good (I said so in a previous post) but the fact still remains that they put Benoit against one of the guys who he had the most trouble gelling with. They were set up to fail. Now we look at Raw where Kane is once again a nonfactor against HHH as he can't even eliminate him. Why? Because Kane's a serious threat as is/was Jericho to the #1 heel spot (the spot I hope Benoit gets some day) HHH has held since forever. Kane who's been screwed over almost as bad as Jericho NEEDED that elimination of HHH last night on Raw to procure as the #1 heel because he's getting the shot for the heavyweight gold and especially given the fact that he really hasn't done anything to get the shot. He even lost to Edge who's lower on the kayfabe scale than Benoit is. If Kane loses to Edge even if it wasn't clean how is he supposed to be a threat to beat Benoit? And to top all this off the focus at the end of ths show (Benoit should've been commentating last night as well during the battle royal) was clearly on HHH and Michaels. Kane was nowhere to be found on my television screen when he desparately had to be. It's as if Kane was in a race where he's at the starting line but instead of going forward for victory he goes one step forward and two steps back. Well, that's if you even count him being at the starting line in the first place. All of this just reeks Benoit and HHH being set up to fail. Anyway, it'll be sweet when Benoit and Kane take home match of the night honours at Bad Blood.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

The northeast/Canada has always seemed to be one of the "smarkier" areas the WWE runs through, and that's why I said it.

You only said that after April of last year, and considering your defending of Goldberg, and after reading the OAO Backlash thread which I read about a month later (since I wasn't around here at the time of the PPV) where you said that everyone here were "all idiots" for thinking that the crowd turning on Goldberg was funny (and it was), I put two and two together. I certainly didn't see you declaring the Northeast region (outside of NY) a smarky region before that time.

 

It's just sad that one of the only anti "Benoit is bland" defenses is -always- the standing ovation.

 

How about varying up the criticisms against him to start? How about some degree of accuracy in those criticisms?

 

I don't care for Benoit, but I won't go around slamming him every chance I get.

 

Then that's a significant change of attitude. I remember when f'n TEST would get slammed you'd put in a cheap shot towards Benoit for whatever reason.

 

I really don't care about your "view" on current WWE events either way, so that part's getting no-sold.

[Guest TheAustralian]

People here mention the wrestlemania main event, Backlash and the HBK/Benoit matches as proof of how over benoit is, and yet fail to realise that HBK and HHH were also in these matches,

 

I supose the next thing you guys will say is "Benoit carried there crippled arses"

 

The reason Benoit is over is because HHH and to a less degree HBK have been putting over Benoit for months.

 

How about instead of showering your god Benoit with compliments, you take note that the evil clique is part of the reason Benoit is over,

 

Or do you think the recent matches between the 3 would of been better without HBK and HHH

[Guest Brian]

People here mention the wrestlemania main event, Backlash and the HBK/Benoit matches as proof of how over benoit is, and yet fail to realise that HBK and HHH were also in these matches

Aren't you just bolstering our argument by saying that? He got cheered over the both of them.

 

and to a less degree HBK have been putting over Benoit for months.

 

HBK had both of their singles matches won before interference. He only lost in the three-way.

 

Or do you think the recent matches between the 3 would of been better without HBK and HHH

 

Yeah. It wouldn't have been a match without the other two.

[Guest TheAustralian]

Hbk was acting like a tweener before WM, and Benoit was being presented as "fulfilling a dream" aka HBK at WM 12.

 

 

Yeah. It wouldn't have been a match without the other two.

 

I believe that is my point

[King Cucaracha 0]

Sweet Jesus.

 

Benoit got a Standing O at an autograph signing? OMG WHAT A LEGEND~! It's lists like that one that go to prove how over-obsessed this board is with Benoit.

 

Don't get me wrong...I'm a Benoit fan. This board's undying love for him is beginning to change that. Fantastic wrestler, nobody can doubt that. Hit and miss on the mic. Benoit on the mic doesn't scream consistancy the way a World Champion usually does. His crowd reactions have improved, yes. But they haven't been consistant enough.

 

The Standing O thing is not exactly a valid point. He had the one at RR, and after that it kind of became a gimmick. You're telling me he would have got a Standing O after beating Nunzio if it wasn't for the Rumble crowd doing it? I highly doubt it.

 

At first, I thought all the 'Benoit is responsible for the ratings rise' was a joke. Now I'm beginning to wonder. I'm sure he factored into it. I'm also sure the battle royal played a part, as did The Rock's return and a solid show the week before may have done too. As DH said, it's not just one factor. Benoit turning up doesn't spike ratings unfortunately.

 

As I say...I'm a Benoit fan. The over-the-top nature of this folder for the most-part is a step too far though for me. Especially when someone is called 'markish' and 'a 12 year old' for finding Benoit boring. Surely that's his decision to make, right?

 

 

While I'm in rant mode...BBCW, get over the -ib- mentions. It's a pathetic attempt to switch the finger of suck away from yourself, and it's not working. Seriously, I see it in 1 out 3 of your posts near enough. We get the point already.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I don't usually agree with Cucaracha about much, but I will say that that list was totally superfluous. Wildpegasus, I get what you're trying to do, but as one poster to another, I really do feel you should tone it down a little bit. When *I* think it's too much, and I am a BIG Benoit fan, then it's too much. That's all.

[humongous2002 0]

Benoit wrestling, Rock's return and the Battle Royal are all reasons why RAW had a good rating. Now if they would allow SD to have the same chances as RAW......

[Guest wildpegasus]

The reason Benoit is over is because HHH and to a less degree HBK have been putting over Benoit for months.

 

How about instead of showering your god Benoit with compliments, you take note that the evil clique is part of the reason Benoit is over,

 

Or do you think the recent matches between the 3 would of been better without HBK and HHH

Benoit's been buried the last few months in the respect that they have not done what they should have with Benoit. RRR has talked about this enough already and has in fact made me lazy by not having to state it myself. If I were booking, Benoit would be way more over than he is.

 

The "evil clique" is the reason why Benoit isn't as over as he could possably be. Benoit's a third wheel in the federation and is just there to keep HHH vs Michaels #5432 fresh. Blame it on the bookers or whoever. The bottom line is it's happening.

 

Or do you think the recent matches between the 3 would of been better without HBK and HHH

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this comment.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I don't usually agree with Cucaracha about much, but I will say that that list was totally superfluous. Wildpegasus, I get what you're trying to do, but as one poster to another, I really do feel you should tone it down a little bit. When *I* think it's too much, and I am a BIG Benoit fan, then it's too much. That's all.

It's all in good fun . The intention of the list was for it to be a little humourous while at the same time stating some facts.

[Guest Goodear]

The "evil clique" is the reason why Benoit isn't as over as he could possably be. Benoit's a third wheel in the federation and is just there to keep HHH vs Michaels #5432 fresh. Blame it on the bookers or whoever. The bottom line is it's happening.

 

The third wheel by definition doesn't win the matches. Sorry. Kane was the third wheel during that Goldberg-HHH feud because he was there for no reason and made virtually no impact into the feud. Benoit on the other hand was dead in the middle of the action between Triple H and Shawn but actually established superiority over both by beating them both on more than one occassion. In fact, the guy hasn't lost in what seems like months now and has gotten tap outs from every member of Evolution during that period on television while simultaniously winning the tag team straps with Edge to become not only a double champion, but a double champion whose reigns will seemingly last multipule PPVs. To say that he is being overshadowed by Michaels-Triple H at this point is an inditement of your own views that those two are the main event players. For a group of people that said that Benoit had to move on from beating those two, we seem to be complaining a whole lot about it now that he is.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The "evil clique" is the reason why Benoit isn't as over as he could possably be. Benoit's a third wheel in the federation and is just there to keep HHH vs Michaels #5432 fresh. Blame it on the bookers or whoever. The bottom line is it's happening.

 

The third wheel by definition doesn't win the matches. Sorry. Kane was the third wheel during that Goldberg-HHH feud because he was there for no reason and made virtually no impact into the feud. Benoit on the other hand was dead in the middle of the action between Triple H and Shawn but actually established superiority over both by beating them both on more than one occassion. In fact, the guy hasn't lost in what seems like months now and has gotten tap outs from every member of Evolution during that period on television while simultaniously winning the tag team straps with Edge to become not only a double champion, but a double champion whose reigns will seemingly last multipule PPVs. To say that he is being overshadowed by Michaels-Triple H at this point is an inditement of your own views that those two are the main event players. For a group of people that said that Benoit had to move on from beating those two, we seem to be complaining a whole lot about it now that he is.

Benoit beat HHH in a triangle match, not a singles match. Benoit beat Michaels in a triple threat match and not a singles match. Add in the fact that HHH hit Michaels with a maul on Michael's injured back and we don't get too impressive a feat that Benoit made Michaels tap. You can also say Michaels only tapped because he was in trouble and didn't want HHH to win the belt. Michaels also beat Benoit in their first singles match where Benoit won the award of "most moronic distraction of the year". Benoit has still to win that victory back. He couldn't even beat Michaels last time until HHH had to do it for him. The conversation between Bishoff and Michaels on the night of the draft plus last week's Raw where Michaels and HHH buried Benoit and Kane by their actions all point to Michaels and HHH being superior to Benoit. So in importance of what happens on the television show and even in the ring itself HHH and Michaels have definitely been superior. That was perhaps never written more clearly than last Raw's battle royal. I don't see how anybody can deny that as Michaels and especially HHH are still the stars of the show. Really, what I just said was just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Kane has been treated badly though I don't remember too much about Goldberg/HHH/Kane because I've shut it out of mind. I completely agree with you if you're saying Kane has been treated badly.

 

Winning the tag belts doesn't mean too much. They won them off of Batista and Flair who are threats to almost nobody. It does help a little bit though.

 

For a group of people that said that Benoit had to move on from beating those two, we seem to be complaining a whole lot about it now that he is.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

Anti-Benoit gimmick posters are funny.

 

 

That is all.

Right up there with Pro-Orton gimmick posters.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Ratings have been increasing since WMXX, moreso due to the facts that the shows themselves have been getting fantastic. It's not like HHH dropped off the face of the Earth... he's still getting as much focus as anyone.

[Guest Goodear]

I simply mean that I recall a lot of people saying that Benoit couldn't feud with Triple H and Shawn perpetually and that he would have to move past both guys at some point. Well he just did into at least a month worth of Kane, and people seem to be complaining about it because its a step down for Benoit. Well, when you're feuding with the 'top guys' (and I would put Benoit over Shawn at this point as far as importance to the company since he gets twice the amount of time and just about the same amount of interveiw space) you have to move down eventually and Kane isn't that bad of a drop for Benoit who is sure as shit going to uncle the big lug.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

when you look at a couple of years ago when the ratings were flying, you had foley, rock, austin, HHH in the word title mix. All these performers were good in the ring and entertaining on the mike.

 

But now we have Benoit as world champ?! wtf ... boooring

 

.

If you look at a couple of years ago, though, you had a strong mid-card as well. Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, etc putting on great mid card matches. If Foley, Rock, Austin and HHH were all people wanted to see, the ratings would only be high when they were on, and bomb when they weren't. Good wrestling shows start with a good undercard to set a foundation for the ME. This also proves, though, that Benoit isn't the reason for the ratings, though it also proves that HBK & HHH aren't the only reasons either.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Anti-Benoit gimmick posters are funny.

 

 

That is all.

Right up there with Pro-Orton gimmick posters.

Yeah...those 'mind of their own' gimmick posters.

 

Actually having the NERVE to state an opinion that differs from the generic smark opinion. They're so funny.

[clean rob 0]

Benoit beat HHH in a triangle match, not a singles match. Benoit beat Michaels in a triple threat match and not a singles match.

1) This leaves PPV main events between Benoit and HHH/HBK fresher and with an easy set-up: i.e. "you've never beaten me one-on-one, Benoit, I demand a match blah blah blah".

 

2) By pretty simple probability, it's actually tougher to win two straight Triple Threats than two straight one-on-one matches, so how this is construed as making Benoit look weak? I could see your point if he'd fluked them, a la Benjamin - but he won both as clean as could be in the middle of the ring.

 

Add in the fact that HHH hit Michaels with a maul on Michael's injured back and we don't get too impressive a feat that Benoit made Michaels tap.

The announcers seemed to make it seem a big deal. Besides, thats just sound ring psychology.

 

You can also say Michaels only tapped because he was in trouble and didn't want HHH to win the belt.

Hmmm... sounds like a bit of a leap of logic there. HBK's character doesn't seem the sort to do something like that to me.

 

Michaels also beat Benoit in their first singles match where Benoit won the award of "most moronic distraction of the year". Benoit has still to win that victory back. He couldn't even beat Michaels last time until HHH had to do it for him.

So they've traded wins, neither of which have been clean, right? That doesn't make Benoit seem inferior to Michaels, it makes them pretty even. Which is good. If Benoit had flattened Michaels both times then I would have no interest in seeing another match between the two. As things stand, a clear victor has yet to be determined. Though I agree the distraction by HHH in Benoit/HBK 1 was really badly done.

 

Plenty of people (me included) complained during 2002/2003 about how HHH would lose Raw matches while feuding with someone, only to always pull out the win in the big PPV matches. This is exactly what Benoit is doing at the moment - minor losses won't hurt him if he can win the big matches, and if he wins everything then there seems like no chance for his opponents to win at PPVs.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

Anti-Benoit gimmick posters are funny.

 

 

That is all.

Right up there with Pro-Orton gimmick posters.

Yeah...those 'mind of their own' gimmick posters.

 

Actually having the NERVE to state an opinion that differs from the generic smark opinion. They're so funny.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I love when people must graps for straws with their explanations. "Oh, HBK tapped cause he didn't want HHH to win!". bullshit. Anyone will know Michaels doesn't quit. Oh, I guess everyone forgot every match where he took brutal beatings and fought until he couldn't fight anymore.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Anti-Benoit gimmick posters are funny.

 

 

That is all.

Right up there with Pro-Orton gimmick posters.

Yeah...those 'mind of their own' gimmick posters.

 

Actually having the NERVE to state an opinion that differs from the generic smark opinion. They're so funny.

Be careful, this guy is a master of the argument.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Quick little note:

 

If nothing happens on Raw in the next few weeks to change things...

 

Then Bad Blood 04 will be the FIRST PPV event since Summerslam 02 that HHH is on that has NOT had HHH involved with the World Heavyweight Title in some way as a match participant.