Can the RAW 10 be better than the Smackdown 6?

[Guest Rrrsh]

Angle gets VERY boring with people over 6'5

 

Shawn makes Monster look REAL good.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Angle gets VERY boring with people over 6'5

I dunno...

 

Even though Anglesault will probably always hate them, I didn't think that Angle's matches against Kane in the past were that bad.

[iggymcfly 0]

He also worked fine with Brock and Big Show, and outside of Brock, Show, and Kane, I can't even remember another big worker he's faced in the last three years. Do you even know what you're complaining about.

[AndrewTS 0]

I don't think they can be directly compared to the SD6 because the 6 were all really freakin' good workers.

 

It's more like the Raw 6, because Evolution isn't that great except for HHH, and Christian still sucks when he's not wrestling Jericho. Plus Christian is out of action right now and it looks like Tomko will be continuing the feud on his behalf.

 

While all involved in decent feuds, the other three Evolution members are improving but not in the league of those other workers. Plus, Benoit is not involved in a major feud with those other workers. Right now he's supposed to be in an angle with Kane, but they've done nothing with it yet.

[AndrewTS 0]

He also worked fine with Brock and Big Show, and outside of Brock, Show, and Kane, I can't even remember another big worker he's faced in the last three years.

Albert--who was usually tagging with Show and while the matches were watchable, they were far from stellar.

 

Plus, if you count the Survivor Series match, he's briefly locked up with Morgan and Jones (I think, haven't seen it), but he wouldn't even wrestle them for very long and even Benoit couldn't carry them too well.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

He also worked fine with Brock and Big Show, and outside of Brock, Show, and Kane, I can't even remember another big worker he's faced in the last three years.

Undertaker.

 

And they had a damn good match on Smackdown...with a screwy ending, yes...but I still thought it was a good match.

 

Was on the same night Hogan and Edge won the tag titles together.

[AndrewTS 0]

Damn, I can't believe I forgot about Taker. Kudos, Chris. He seemed to be the exception, not the rule, though. He worked more like a smaller guy who could do power moves, and meshed very well with Angle. Their lack of a full-length angle with a PPV blow-off made it slip my mind.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I think Rey as a TAG wrestler in 2002 was tremendous. But, in a singles match vs anyone else but Angle, Rey proved how limited is really is.

 

Woah woah woah. You've got to be kidding me.

 

Rey is not a limited wrestler in what he's capable of, he's only limited in what he's allowed to do.

[Guest Ray]

Shawn carried countless lugs to ***3/4+ on daily basis.

DAILY?

 

MUST you exaggerate so grossly?

[Guest Choken One]

while Bret Hart dogged it on the house show circuit...Shawn brought it to a higher level....

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Umm, Shawn had a reputation for dogging it at house shows.

 

tOA has informed me well.

[Guest Choken One]

Please...I witnessed Shawn and others(owen, perfect, and more) go ****3/4(on some occasions) on house shows while Bret would go John Cena on the match and hit the basic spots and get out as soon as possible.

 

I've seen Bret live 10 times...Only one match was memorable...I've seen Shawn 12 times. I can almost remember every single of those matches being good, he even took Salavatore Sincere to a *** match...only "bad" match i saw live from Shawn was against Hall in 1994.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Somehow I doubt that Shawn, Owen, Curt "and more" would regularly have what you would call '****3/4' matches on house shows.

[Guest Choken One]

Shawn and Perfect were well known for having great matches on the house show circuit and the match i was refering to between Owen and Shawn was Their IYH match extended about another 15 mintues.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I've seen numerous Bret Hart house show matches and he didn';t dog it on any of them.

 

Bret was well known for dogging it at SOME house shows. It all depended on where it was, and who it was against.

 

Dido for Micheals.

[Guest Ray]

Please...I witnessed Shawn and others(owen, perfect, and more) go ****3/4(on some occasions) on house shows while Bret would go John Cena on the match and hit the basic spots and get out as soon as possible.

 

I've seen Bret live 10 times...Only one match was memorable...I've seen Shawn 12 times. I can almost remember every single of those matches being good, he even took Salavatore Sincere to a *** match...only "bad" match i saw live from Shawn was against Hall in 1994.

And plenty of other people have seen Shawn be a lazy ass at house shows. What's you're point?

 

And I'm still waiting for an answer as to how Shawn carried slugs to great matches EVERY DAY.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

HHH is benefitting from working with better workers but still looks lost and matches suffer when he's in control.

Agreed... His offense drags down his matches and his selling is inconsistent. It's not that he's started to put more effort into his matches or improved, it's that he's facing superior workers who are capable of making him look better than he is. As a worker, I would say he's slightly better than Orton, but below Benoit(obviously), Micheals, Tajiri, Edge and Benjamin.

[Guest Dazed]

And I'm still waiting for an answer as to how Shawn carried slugs to great matches EVERY DAY.

You'll be lucky to get an answer from Choken when he's in BS mode. Still, gotta love the notion of rating matches that you've "seen" and are unverifiable, and those ratings just happen to match up to the point you're making. I've seen Big Show at loads of house shows, and he always puts on ****+ matches, carrying talentless workers all the time...

[Dark Age 0]

I saw those matches too! Show and A-Train vs Taker and Nathan Jones was a match on a house show here last year. It was brilliant. ****3/4 MOTYC. Of course, no one else saw it, only the people in attendance. But I can tell you now, the match rocked! Show was busting out SSPs and everything. Awesome stuff!

 

While all involved in decent feuds, the other three Evolution members are improving but not in the league of those other workers.

 

Yeah. Gotta love that great up and comer Flair. He is gonna be huge one day. But his time hasn't come yet. He needs improvement. He can improve by watching some Triple H matches.

 

Undertaker.

 

And they had a damn good match on Smackdown...with a screwy ending, yes...but I still thought it was a good match.

 

Was on the same night Hogan and Edge won the tag titles together.

 

The match they had on the 2nd SD! after SummerSlam last year was MUCH better. Very good tv match, and it too had a screwy finish. I'm dissapointed that there was never a rematch where they could really tear it down.

 

Oh, and btw, Angle has carried Kane, Taker and Show to decent-good-very good matches. What more do you want? Carrying a lesser worker is one thing, but there is no way that even Shawn could carry Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan to ****+ matches in his prime. So don't expect Kurt to either.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

And Angle's taken Edge to ****1/2, which is about a star higher than I can remember anyone else doing in a singles match.

Huh? Whoever gave any of the Edge/Angle matches over 4 stars much be on crack because they were NOT that good. I will admit that I liked the cage match on SD which ended the feud, but the PPV matches were WAY overrated. Edge's singles work with Guerrero during the summer that year smokes them both.

 

And in the aforementioned Vengeance match, he took Brock and Big Show to heights they couldn't have dreamed of otherwise.

That Vengeance 3-way was fun, but I'd hardly call it "great" because Brock done better both before and after that match although I agree with the Big Show point.

[Guest Loss]

I agree that Shawn Michaels is overrated by most people, but Kurt Angle takes the word overrated to an entirely new level.

 

Shawn, even now, is better than Angle ever has been.

[KTID 0]

I agree that Shawn Michaels is overrated by most people, but Kurt Angle takes the word overrated to an entirely new level.

 

Shawn, even now, is better than Angle ever has been.

 

 

I agree x 10

[Dark Age 0]

Wow, an RVD fan saying Kurt Angle is over-rated. Because RVD isn't, right?

 

I would, however, be interested in both (RVDMark and Loss) of your opinions on WHY Kurt Angle is over-rated. Unless its too off-topic.

[Guest Loss]

It's not.

 

Angle throws too many suplexes. He doesn't really seem to understand what to do between moves. He goes for the anklelock too much, never sets up the move and is a horrific seller. As much as he plays to the crowd in interviews, he rarely does it during matches. He's tremendous as far as conveying intensity and his offense is his strongest point, but I have yet to see a match where his opponent comes out looking like a million bucks. He's good, but he's not great.

 

Shawn is better at both being an asshole and playing for sympathy. He is more effective in longer matches and is a much better seller, even if his selling annoys the hell out of me sometimes. He has a better idea of how to structure a match and he has had better matches with a wider variety of opponents. It's easy to hate him when he's playing the jerk and it's easy to rally behind him when he's the underdog. He's much more diverse.

[humongous2002 0]

HBK is overrated nowadays, he only has good matches with HHH,Benoit and Jericho(3 good workers), the proof is in his matches with Orton, even RVD and Edge had better matches with the wrestler formerly known as suckbag.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

It's not.

 

Angle throws too many suplexes. He doesn't really seem to understand what to do between moves. He goes for the anklelock too much, never sets up the move and is a horrific seller.

That's irritated me for the longest time. Angle's offense is like Suplex-O-Rama, yet his finisher is an anklelock. I mean, come ON now... slapping on the anklelock 50 times a match is NOT psychology in any way, shape, or form and I'm shocked no one's mentioned it to him already. I'd love to see Angle bust out a finishing sequence that plays off the lock, but I doubt it'll happen with how crippled he's becoming lately.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

There's no way that Flair belongs in with the crop of good workers after that horrendous performance against Edge last night. After he FORGOT TO KICK OUT and they had to have the ref pull up at 3 I knew that he'd officially lost it. Flair also has no structure to matches, it's all chops and back body drops.

 

Batista, on the other hand, continues to improve weekly. I'd rather see Batista vs Benoit then Kane vs Benoit as the ME @ Bad Blood given the current state of things (Kane not having had a good match since.........?)

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Kane not having had a good match since.........?)

...facing Angle on SD approx. 2 years ago.

[Guest Loss]

Actually, Jericho dragged a much better match out of Kane in September of 2002 than Angle got out of Kane the year prior. I watched them both back to back recently and Jericho went for a Bret/Diesel dynamic of sorts while Angle went more for a Shawn/Sid style.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

.....and I have yet to see a match where his opponent comes out looking like a million bucks.

 

 

 

Let's just forget the RR03 Standing Ovation for Benoit.

 

 

Or the great match against the Undertaker last year on Smackdown when Taker survived 20 Anklelocks and still was about to beat Angle before Brock interfered.