Chad Kroeger bitching that music piracy makes

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Not to mention the fact that you are opening yourself up to basically every label and promotion agency in the world by being on the net. Kid A uploads to kid B, kid B to kid c, kid c to Marco Barbieri of Century Media. Not a bad fucking deal if a label honcho would possibly never have heard my band before.

[haVoc 0]

yeah because just because people dowloaded a song or two means that they would have bought the album otherwise if DL'ing wasn't available?

People use to and probably still would. Don't tell me that at any point in your life before the DL' age that you, or anyone you know, bought an album for a song or two. Then realized the album sucked.

 

DL sucks for the artist, but it's great for the "buyers."

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

My band is called Annex

[Slayer 0]

Here's a novel concept to bands (new and old) then: don't make shitty music

 

Similarly, to labels: don't put out shitty CDs

 

I can't tell you how many shitty CDs I've been saved from buying thanks to file-sharing allowing me to preview a good portion of a particular CD

 

In the days before file-sharing, I had (got rid of most of them) too many CDs that I got for one song or just picked up blindly, later regretting most of these purchases.

 

Really, I believe that's what the RIAA and big labels wants most of the time: for people to just blindly buy CDs without having any idea what they (consumer) are really getting, so they (RIAA and labels) can laugh with their money while the consumer is stuck with a shitty product for which the consumer can never get 100% return on, since most stores don't refund on CDs and at most you'll probably get a 50% return at a Used store

 

So... fuck them

[snuffbox 0]

A brief look at people in in music's opinions on this issue -

 

Neil 'Jesus' Young - Pro

Chad Kroeger/Metallica - Con

 

 

Neil knows, Neil wins.

 

And, for the kiddies trying to say that filesharing hurts young bands - The labels arent going to support them, their touring is self-supported, their advertising is selfsupported, and they almost ALL are pro-filesharing. Kinda weird.

 

Spose we shoulda banned blank tapes and radio back in the day too....

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

I guess they are the worst band on Earth.

 

Also, Nickelback/Three Doors Down/Puddle of Mudd is the worst tour in the history of music. Bar none.

They are all actually touring together? holy fuck.

[razazteca 0]

12-16 year old girls are very excited about this tour.

[haVoc 0]

Really? Three Doors Down seem to have a older fan base. Nickelback as well. Puddle Of Mudd seem like they would be "cooler" to the "I'm going to pretend to be angry at the world" teenagers today.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

12-16 year old girls are very excited about this tour.

beefcakes with eye brow piercings are their bread and butter

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

I know this is old but, I thought it would be good for this topic.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/03/30/ka...d_co_not_cause/

 

Kazaa and co ‘not cause of music biz woes’, say Profs

By Tony Smith

Published Tuesday 30th March 2004 12:06 GMT

File sharing has no effect on CD sales, a pair of US academics have claimed.

 

The finding will not make pleasant reading for the music industry, which claims file-sharing is the cause of the huge decline seen in North American, German and Italian CD sales.

 

Harvard Business School Associate Professor Felix Oberholzer-Gee and Professor Koleman Strumpf of the University of North Carolina base their claim on research carried during the Autumn and Winter of 2002 to compare song download volumes with CD album sales.

 

The duo used data taken directly from file-sharing networks to calculate the number of genuine downloads made during a 17-week period. They also looked at official US CD sales data. Factors such as network congestion, song length - ie. download duration - as well as international school and college holidays were taking into consideration. They then used statistical methods to work out whether the sale of an album declines if it is downloaded more frequently.

 

The result, the professors say, is that there is no such connection.

 

"File sharing has no statistically significant effect on purchases of the average album in our sample," their report states. "Moreover, the estimates are of rather modest size when compared to the drastic reduction in sales in the music industry. At most, file sharing can explain a tiny fraction of this decline."

 

Oberholzer-Gee and Strumpf estimate that it takes on average 5000 downloads to reduce album sales by just a single copy - and that, they say, is a worst-case scenario. On that basis, US CD sales in 2002 would have fallen by two million copies. In fact, they fell by 139 million units between 2000 and 2002.

 

If the professors' analysis is correct, file-sharing may have actually limited that decline. The professors' study suggests that for the top 25 per cent of albums - those with sales of 600,000 copies or more - one extra copy was sold on average for every 150 downloads. That said, downloads did tend to impact less popular albums - those with 36,000 sales or less. Overall, however, the effect is beneficial, since the music industry makes most of its money from the most popular albums.

 

"While downloads occurred on a vast scale during this period - three million simultaneous users shared 500 million files on the popular network FastTrack/Kazaa alone - most people who shared files appear to be individuals who would not have bought the albums that they downloaded," the professors say.

 

However, the professors do provide circumstantial evidence that backs the music industry's claim. The greatest download activity was recorded for users in the US, Canada, Germany and Italy - which are all countries that, according to the London-based industry anti-piracy watchdog the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI), have seen some of the biggest declines in music sales.

 

That seems a pretty close parallel, but the professors suggest we look to other reasons for the decline. Sales, they say, are not lost to downloads since most download are made of songs music fans would not buy anyway. They also point to a similar large decline in LP sales during the late 1970s and early 1980s - a trend that prompted the music industry's 'home taping is killing music' campaign, we recall - which was reversed when CD was launched.

 

Indeed, CD sales were long been inflated during the 1990s as consumer re-purchased in the new medium albums they already owned.

 

"Movies, software and video games are actively downloaded, and yet these industries have continued to grow since the advent of file sharing," not the professors. Reasons for the decline in music sales include, they suggest, "poor macroeconomic conditions, a reduction in the number of album releases, growing competition from other forms of entertainment such as video games and DVDs - video game graphics have improved and the price of DVD players and movies have sharply fallen - [and] a reduction in music variety stemming from the large consolidation in radio along with the rise of independent promoter fees to gain airplay".

[Hoff 0]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that file sharing wasn't this big a deal, but I guess not. Or maybe things have changed since a couple years ago. I recall vaguely a study in '01 that said CD sales went UP as downloads increased. So...there you go.

 

As far as money goes...even if your primary concern is to get people to listen to your music (as it should be for all musicians), it's still nice to be financially compensated for it once it becomes a profession. And while I doubt Kroeger's in dire straits by any means, no doubt there are some bands who are hurt by file sharing. So, it's something to think about. Kroeger makes a good point about "changing people's mindsets." Once high-speed internet becomes the standard, I wouldn't be surprised if pay-per-song or album downloading becomes very much the norm. But that will also take a concious effort from people (like many of us, I'm sure) who have easy access to FREE downloads. It's making the call of putting $12.99 in someone's pocket to support a band you enjoy.

 

As a side note, aren't a lot of bands putting samples of songs on their websites to hear and/or download? I know that Nickelback, in fact, does or did such a thing, and they had a few 1:00 snippets up when Silver Side Up came out. If bands did that in a show of good faith (or better yet, one or two full songs), I'd be much more inclined to pay for their stuff.

 

EDIT: Thumbtack, I was gonna ask you more about your band -- speciifically, the name of the CD, the release date, and, in the spirit of this conversation, if any of your stuff is available on Kazaa or a similar program.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Thumbtack, I was gonna ask you more about your band -- speciifically, the name of the CD, the release date, and, in the spirit of this conversation, if any of your stuff is available on Kazaa or a similar program.

 

There's no set name for it. I'm thinking of calling 'Final View Of the Light" but fuck if I know what it'll end up as.

 

No said date for it. I'm a lazy cock that way. I haven't touched the material in over a month, but next week I might got to the studio for 48 hours and finish the whole thing. My work is mood based.

 

The only thing out there right now is a soundboard recording of a rehearsal of one song. The only people that have it are my brother, myself, and Nevermortal. When the thing comes out I will be putting it on the networks. maybe I'll build a lousy site for the sake of linking.

 

I'll be shilling it here when it's done anyway.

[Guest Choken One]

Give it a cutesy poppunk name like 27 Walls just for ironic sake.

[NoCalMike 0]

File-sharing is an esy scapegoat for the greedy bastards to bitch to congress about who in return know absolutely zero, and don't care to learn anything more about how the music industry works. It is just one bunch of rich greedy ingrates, whining to a different group of rich greedy ingrates. Gee I wonder who they will side with. I find it highly ironic that the bands that bitch the most, also make the most money and the majority of small indy bands that are REALLY struggling for money are the ones HOPING someone wants to download their music for exposure.

 

Me personally, most everything I download is at least 5-10 years old, and hasn't been heard anywhere near a radio station. I just don't find current music beit, Top 40, or even underground stuff, to be all that appealing. The music industry is just boring right now. Ian Robinson had a nice rant on this which is posted somewhere on this board.

 

File-sharing does a lot more good then bad, and the RIAA has failed to show how downloading has hurt anyone's capability to make a decent living from making music. They just want more and more and more profits, that is all.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Thumbtack, I was gonna ask you more about your band -- speciifically, the name of the CD, the release date, and, in the spirit of this conversation, if any of your stuff is available on Kazaa or a similar program.

 

There's no set name for it. I'm thinking of calling 'Final View Of the Light" but fuck if I know what it'll end up as.

 

No said date for it. I'm a lazy cock that way. I haven't touched the material in over a month, but next week I might got to the studio for 48 hours and finish the whole thing. My work is mood based.

 

The only thing out there right now is a soundboard recording of a rehearsal of one song. The only people that have it are my brother, myself, and Nevermortal. When the thing comes out I will be putting it on the networks. maybe I'll build a lousy site for the sake of linking.

 

I'll be shilling it here when it's done anyway.

I'll probably have something ready come this fall, too. I've recently become accquainted with a weird fucker who happens to really be into industrial music. We're combining industrial, grind, and jam music.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I think it'd be pretty interesting to hear what AoO and Thumbtack can do metal-wise. I'm especially interested in AoO's self-proclaimed mastery of the guitar.

 

Coming this fall the TSM metal collection...

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

AoO, even if it could easily be bullshit, why don't you set up an audio link for us?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

1. I'm on a dialup connection.

 

2. I don't know how.

 

3. I'm best on the bass, but I haven't "mastered" anything. I like to think I'm really good, though. That's what most other people tell me, anyway.

 

Work out the first two kinks, and sure, I'll play some bass for you. Gather round the campfire.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

When I started playing the guitar, I instinctively finger-picked. I tried bass a while after to see if it suited me better, but the guitar has a wider range and suited me better, so I opted to continue playing it.

 

And I take it your gas will be lighting this campfire?

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Perogies are large, ravioli-like delights, most often filled with mashed potatoes.

[Slayer 0]

I can provide vocals for the TSM metal band, if you like

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I'm on backing vox and rhythm guitar, bitches. I'd also like to be the lyricist.

[Slayer 0]

I have my own lyrical contributions too, but will let them take backseat if other contributions are better

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

No the vocals will be handled by me.

 

Actually I'll be like Proscripter from Absu and do drums and vox.

[Slayer 0]

Dammit

 

*forms rival band and gets in numerous fights with Tack*

[NoCalMike 0]

Another issue I think that hasn't been explored a lot yet regarding downloading music is a trend among people to start start straying away from Top 40 musicians/songs(albeit slowly).

 

The RIAA and Clear Channel are about profits and one thing they need from music listeners to keep their profits rising is a simple thing called, CONFORMITY. In an ideal world for them, EVERYONE would love american idol contestants, EVERYONE would just eat up the new Velvet Revolver album, and EVERYONE would love Metallica's downtuning, however more and more casual listeners, are tuning out of Top 40 music. Now I am not trying to claim that there is this NEW PHENOMENON of people flocking away from the radio, but truth be told, A LOT more people today are listening to different kinds of music and less known artists then five years ago, and I'd have to say that mp3s/filesharing/music downloading is the BIGGEST REASON for this. No one is going to go to Tower Records and buy something on a hunch, but they WILL spend 30 seconds downloading just about anything on a recommendation from a friend or an "online buddy"

 

Clear Channel and the RIAA are surely not liking the fact that Joe Schmo is just as likely to buy a cd from some no name band or artists, rather then this brand new glossy band that they just spent 50 million dollars in advertising for. Once again, the RIAA wants to DICTATE what music we all listen too, and they don't appreciate ANYONE telling them that their millions of dollars of advertising is going to waste.

 

[/rant]

[MrRant 0]

What's wrong with the Velvet Revolver album? It's not that bad IMO.