Bradshaw Causes Incident At House Show

[Jobber of the Week 0]

That 411 column was a self-blowjob. He's giving the internet fans WAY too much credit here and forgetting that the media has known that Vince McMahon is an idiot for years and is all too eager to cover something that exposes him as a dumbass carny instead of the entertainment industry big-shot he pictures himself as.

 

Here's the thing to the people who don't get the "don't joke about it" stuff. You don't joke about bombs in airports. Do you challenge that? No, you joke about the fact that they have that law outside of the airport (such as George Carlin's routine about "What if someone told a bomb riddle? A limerick? How about an amusing bomb anecdote?") but when you're in the airport, you just obey it.

 

Same with Nazis in Germany. You may think it's weird, but taking a stand and trying to fight city hall over social taboos is a fight that's not worth fighting when it's not hurting anyone, and frowning on Nazis isn't hurting anyone at all.

 

 

I'll take this moment to remind everyone that Germany has a social structure currently that's quite pacifist/non-violent. Even the German releases of the most violent computer and video games have to modified. If you buy a shooter such as "Half-Life" in Germany, you buy a special edition sold only in Germany where human enemies are replaced with robots. Why? Germany has a thing about the imagery of shooting live people, so the enemy soldiers in the game are replaced with "military robots."

 

 

It may seem a little weird to you, and it probably is a little weird. But remember that it's the backlash against the most violent power-hungry regime in this planet's history and the rise of a man who's identity will be intwined with evil for many generations to come worldwide. If that's not something to be ashamed about, what is?

[Ultra Violence 0]

If you buy a shooter such as "Half-Life" in Germany, you buy a special edition sold only in Germany where human enemies are replaced with robots. Why? Germany has a thing about the imagery of shooting live people, so the enemy soldiers in the game are replaced with "military robots."

Sorry mate, but I have to inform you that's utter bollocks. I've played Flashpoint and Counterstrike at my german friend's house in germany, and at a local LAN arena (again in Koblenz, Germany) and the sprites were all human.

[dubq 0]

I can see why, I just don't agree with it

 

snip...

 

I didn't even know the symbols were illegal in Germany to be honest. Is this a piece of common knowledge that I missed or did everyone learn about it just now too?

A] It's not your place to agree or disagree with it. You're not German, you don't live in Germany, so don't worry about it unless you plan on visiting there any time soon. That said, regardless of someones occupation - when they're in another country, I'd pretty much think that it's common sense to obey their laws. Calling wrestlers 'actors' is a bit of a stretch, because I'm fairly sure that any movie or play with the salute imagry in it wouldn't get too far in Germany in the first place.

 

B] It's common knowledge from where I sit. Anyone who's seen any sort of information piece on WWII and it's aftermath should've known about these laws. It's a total disrespect of the fans in Germany who put money in the wrestlers' pockets for that show, and I hope the piece of shit gets everything he has coming to him.

 

Think of it like this: Whether or not it's a 'banned act' I'm pretty fucking sure that the American fans would've been upset if some wrestler came out on TV and re-enacted the events of 9/11 with toy planes and whatnot.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Sorry mate, but I have to inform you that's utter bollocks. I've played Flashpoint and Counterstrike at my german friend's house in germany, and at a local LAN arena (again in Koblenz, Germany) and the sprites were all human.

Well, it's not like there's anyone in Germany with internet access being prevented from downloading the original game models from someone with a regular copy once they get it installed.

 

I have German gaming magazines with pictures of the Half-Life "robots" as well as big black boxes of what's supposed to be Quake III screenshots blacked out. From Computer & Video Games Magazine four years ago:

 

QUAKE III ARENA 'INDEXED' FOR GERMANY

As has been the case with every id Software release since the days of Wolfenstein 3D, Quake III Arena has been 'indexed' in Germany. What this means is that the game is now on a list of not-quite-banned titles, along with virtually any game that has humans getting shot, any Nazi references and, well, violence in almost any form, really.

 

What indexing a game means is that the game is for all intents and purposes banned. It's still possible to buy it, though, just very hard. Shops are allowed to sell indexed titles although they are not allowed to advertise them in any way. In fact they're not even allowed to display them or make any reference to them in the shop. Consequently very few bother to stock them on the off chance that someone may walk into the shop and ask for it.

 

Mail order is not much better as to buy one of the indexed titles you have to prove you are over 18 - which you can't do over the phone. Owning a credit card is not proof as they can't know for sure that you are the owner of the card.

 

Many indexed games are released in Germany in other forms, although usually altered significantly. Half-Life, for instance, had all the humans replaced with robots for its release.

 

According to German news source, Heise News, a Quake III Arena German edition is in the works at present, with all the blood and gore removed.

[Anakin Flair 0]

from 411

Latest On Bradshaw: McMahon Upset With CNBC

Posted By Ashish on 06.09.04

 

Fallout from Bradshaw's stupid decision continues....

 

Vince McMahon was extremely upset with CNBC over their decision to fire John Bradshaw Layfield from his financial analyst spot. McMahon thought that the network acted too harshly. The feeling is that WWE will not punish Bradshaw in anyway over the incident. It should be noted that the recent Bradshaw push was almost exclusively Vince McMahon's idea. Some backstage think that the briefly posted WWE.com statement over the incident was only posted to keep CNBC from firing Bradshaw which obviously didn't work.

 

CNBC was flooded with thousands of calls and letters telling them to fire Bradshaw for his actions. Campaigns to get the story in major news outlets such as the LA Times, FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, etc. are still going on. If more outlets continue to report the story, it could mean a lot of very bad publicity for WWE.

 

Credit: PWInsider.com

[Australian Pride 0]

Considering this is a company that used necrophilia as a way to gain publicity, i'm not sure they will really care. To Vince "any publicity is good publicity".

[Guest Trivia247]

A little bit off topic - but will the average wrestling fan even care that JBL did a nazi symbol? I mean, the likes of Fritz Von Erich were openly promoted as nazi's. It was a different era sure, but he ended being one of the most beloved wrestlers in Texas. Same goes for Sgt Slaughter - he stood up for Saddam Hussein at the peak of the first Gulf War, and a few years later all was forgiven as he waved the American Flag again.

I know JBL is a dick for blatantly breaking German laws (well actually, JBL is just a dick in general), but i dont think regular mat fans will even care.

Well there is differences when you play these type of roles in America to get heat. Outside of the country and elsewhere where such things aren't permitted even to be joked about it.

 

Bradshaw doing the nazi thing in Germandy of all places might go over probably as enthusisatically as in Israel. The problem is that Bradshaw's character made no real hinting of this, so this was Truly His BRIGHT idea to get over as a bad guy.

 

But in the US we have had our racist groups and wrestlers on air characters that is.

From Nation of Domination, Truth Commission, To people like Col DeBeers who played a South African military officer I believe and was probably the singular example of a racist gimmick.

 

See in the US you can (barely) get away with using such gimmicks to get yourself over as a bad guy. Though in my opinion thats a pretty weak way. That means you cannot come up with something ingenius yourself so instead you borrow from racism Governments groups parties and put on the uniform or do the hand gestures or spout a lighter form of their rederic (sp)

 

I personally don't think the regular fans no matter where you are is THAT desensitized to let something like a Sig Hail Pass by. Im sure if he went cross country at house shows doing that people would twitch.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Oh well, looks like Grutman's brilliant prediction of Bradshaw being totally unemployed within the next two months is now null and void. Oh well, just another case of an internet writer talking out of his asshole and trying to drum up popularity for himself.

 

Also, as ignorant a move as this was on Bradshaws part, I certainly do believe that if this had been a more favored wrestler, instead of this being such a classless move, it would have just been a misguided attempt at heel heat. Wait, there's no need to think it, look no further than good 'ol Josh's report!

 

Meanwhile, we could have kept this quiet. Had you been nice to us, we would not have told CNBC. Had you not called us faggots, had you not called us nerds, all we would be saying right now is, “Look. It’s professional wrestling. Obviously no one should be giving the Hitler salute, but the job of the professional wrestler is to rile up the crowd. The salute served its purpose, the crowd hated the bad guy even more. Bradshaw is obviously not a racist! He was teamed up with an African American for years. And if you really think about it, how fitting is it that a salute to Adolf Hitler, once considered the ultimate gesture of evil, is so meaningless now that it’s being used by a professional wrestler to get booed?” We could be saying that. I’m Jewish, and if you had given me one reason to like you in the least I would have at least left you alone, continued to enjoy my vacation from the Internet.

 

My oh my, I don't know what's more hilarious, the fact that Grutman is acting as if he has Bradshaw tied up in his house, about to blow his brains out, gloating over the fact that he holds this mans very life in his hands, or the wording he used to do it! Truly sad these internet personalities.

 

But yeah, the IWC does have a way to sweep certain things under the rug when one of their roles models is involved; Benoit's wife stealing and steroid use. Eddie's drinking, steroid use, breaking character, and drug problems. Wow, a laundry list right there. And what's Layfield guilty of? One stupid gesture and being an average wrestler with a distaste for nerdy internet fans. I mean, reading an article like Grutmans, it's really hard NOT to ridicule this whole community.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Double Post

[Slickster 0]

Fun fact: I just did commentary on a small-town indy show in a K of C hall; the Manson-esque heel did a Nazi salute to a crucifix on the wall.

 

THAT's controversial. But it could be explained away because 'he's a heel.'

 

Why couldn't they argue the same for JBL? He's gotta find *some* way for the Germans to hate him; why not go for the Nazi cheap heat? What else can he do to guarantee getting booed out of the building (which is goal #1 for any ME heel)?

 

Just as a face has to endear himself to the fans in *every* arena (see Cena's jerseys), the heel has to make the majority of fans dislike him. That's what JBL's intent was, but I don't think he knew that what he was doing was illegal.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Fun fact: I just did commentary on a small-town indy show in a K of C hall; the Manson-esque heel did a Nazi salute to a crucifix on the wall.

 

THAT's controversial. But it could be explained away because 'he's a heel.'

 

Why couldn't they argue the same for JBL? He's gotta find *some* way for the Germans to hate him; why not go for the Nazi cheap heat? What else can he do to guarantee getting booed out of the building (which is goal #1 for any ME heel)?

 

Just as a face has to endear himself to the fans in *every* arena (see Cena's jerseys), the heel has to make the majority of fans dislike him. That's what JBL's intent was, but I don't think he knew that what he was doing was illegal.

Wow! Really?! As a Christian, I feel it's MY right to get him fired from his low paying job! Come on my IWC comrades, WE MUST DO THIS! This is Revenge of the Nerds, Smark Style~! We have the power to chage the world, the WRESTLING world!

[Lil' Bitch 0]

 

Bradshaw is a Nazi! Heil Layfield!

[AndrewTS 0]

But yeah, the IWC does have a way to sweep certain things under the rug when one of their roles models is involved; Benoit's wife stealing and steroid use. Eddie's drinking, steroid use, breaking character, and drug problems. Wow, a laundry list right there.

 

Except for the wife stealing, hasn't basically every major name wrestler done those very same things? In general, the steroid stuff is usually used against a wrestler when it affects his performance.

 

And what's Layfield guilty of? One stupid gesture and being an average wrestler with a distaste for nerdy internet fans.

 

And being a guy who was on the roster for a hell of a long time, never drew much heat without a good, heavily pushed gimmick, and is only being pushed now because he's a kiss ass...

 

And being a bigoted, far-far-far-far-right penisbucket who spouts his distasteful political ideals as if anyone gives a damn what a wrestler thinks...

 

And main eventing a PPV about a month after first getting pushed as a main event threat....

 

And for the rumors about his hazings, which depending on which rumors you believe, border on sexual assault...

 

And for being a shitty Stan Hansen clone...

 

And his crappy selling...

 

And his ignorant, contradictory columns that WWE would put up, where he's bashed everything from net fans in general to foreign wrestling (or was that JR?).

 

I miss anything?

 

I mean, reading an article like Grutmans, it's really hard NOT to ridicule this whole community.

 

Lord knows when you think of the voice of the IWC, you think of Grut.

 

You'd have a better case if you were talking about Keith, who many smarks try to distance themselves from anyway.

[Guest Brian]

You forgot homophobe.

[Australian Pride 0]

And for being a shitty Stan Hansen clone...

And now an ultra-shitty Ted Dibiase clone. I guess JBL's next attempt at heel heat will be to bring back the Underfaker for a SummerSlam 94 rematch with the Undertaker. And after he fails to beat Eddy for the title, he will have his own belt made and pretend it's worth a damn.

[AndrewTS 0]

Yeah, forgot those, too.

 

Although I can't put things like drug use, alchohol, steroid abuse, etc. FBP implied that Bradshaw never did any of that, and I'm sure he's probably got accurate sources on that, so who am I to dispute that claim?

[Guest Brian]

Bradshaw was probably a pretty heavy drinker given that he likes to talk about it. But Alcoholism is a disease that's really just relative to how much your body can take and if you get caught. Would anybody say anything about Eddy had he not crashed? And he deserves a lot of credit for getting over those things, rather than drudging up yesterday's baits to prove tha you need to be the board's anti-smark.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Except for the wife stealing, hasn't basically every major name wrestler done those very same things?  In general, the steroid stuff is usually used against a wrestler when it affects his performance.

 

Um, no. Not every major wrestler has done drugs or has been an alcoholic. Next.

 

And being a guy who was on the roster for a hell of a long time, never drew much heat without a good, heavily pushed gimmick

 

Um, I hate to break this to you Andrew, but that's usually how you draw heat, a good, heavily pushed gimmick. And looking at house show reports and SD! Tapings, it seems to be working very nicely for Layfield.

 

and is only being pushed now because he's a kiss ass...

 

Any proof of this besides hearsay?

 

And being a bigoted, far-far-far-far-right penisbucket who spouts his distasteful political ideals as if anyone gives a damn what a wrestler thinks...

 

If no one gave a damn what a wrestler thought, he would not have been fired from CNBC, hell he would never have been hired in the first place. Seems you just made a contradiction there.

 

And main eventing a PPV about a month after first getting pushed as a main event threat....

 

So wait, you mean to tell me that Bradshaw just suddnely burst into McMahon's office and said, "Hey, I'm sick of being a midcard face with a 45 year old negro (gotta remember he's a bigot)! I'm changing my whole character, turning heel, and putting myself into a main event program with the champion!" Well, if THAT is the case, forget HHH, we have the real future head of the company right here! Or, perhaps Vince McMahon, who, according to NUMEROUS reports, is very fond of the JBL character, pushed Bradshaw to the main events? But no, that's not believable at all. We have to continue to blame Bradshaw to bolster our weak arguments!

 

And for the rumors about his hazings, which depending on which rumors you believe, border on sexual assault...

 

And if I remember correctly, none of these RUMORS (key word there) were ever substantiated. Everyone just assumed it was Bradshaw because a cowboy hat was mentioned. With evidence like that, who needs rational arguments and logic, and PROOF?! We have a friggin' cowboy hat, that's all we need!

 

And for being a shitty Stan Hansen clone...

 

Opinion, next.

 

And his crappy selling...

 

Didn't I just say, "average wrestler?" Besides, opinion, next.

 

And his ignorant, contradictory columns that WWE would put up, where he's bashed everything from net fans in general to foreign wrestling  (or was that JR?).

 

Already mentioned it, so next.

 

I miss anything?

 

Only the part where you make relevant points. No biggie though.

 

Lord knows when you think of the voice of the IWC, you think of Grut.

 

You'd have a better case if you were talking about Keith, who many smarks try to distance themselves from anyway.

 

I don't think of any one "voice" when I think of the IWC. I think of a group of individuals that can either bring credibility to it, or take it away. Grutman, did the latter, by acting like a big baby, for lack of a better term. His whole rant was laughable.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Bradshaw was probably a pretty heavy drinker given that he likes to talk about it. But Alcoholism is a disease that's really just relative to how much your body can take and if you get caught. Would anybody say anything about Eddy had he not crashed? And he deserves a lot of credit for getting over those things, rather than drudging up yesterday's baits to prove tha you need to be the board's anti-smark.

No one is trying to be an Anti-Smark. Stop trying to make labels for everyone who is not following the popular opinion and debate.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

The AP wires just ran a story on the firing of John Bradshaw Layfield from CNBC. This is a very bad sign for WWE, as by tomorrow the story of a WWE main eventer doing the Nazi salute in Germany will be in newspapers all over North America.

 

There is still no word on why WWE removed their public apology from their website. However, after the story hits the newspapers, WWE may issue another public apology for the incident. Many believe that Bradshaw may finally get some punishment, now that the story is going to be all over North America, which will make WWE look extremely bad.

 

Impactwrestling.com

 

[Tawren 0]

But yeah, the IWC does have a way to sweep certain things under the rug when one of their roles models is involved; Benoit's wife stealing and steroid use.

Please, show me proof of Benoit doing steroids. Please. Pictures? We have a picture of Bradshaw doing the Nazi salute. Witnesses? We got that for Bradshaw. Weird how you are making baseless accusations as an attempt to take heat away from a guy who DID A NAZI SALUTE TO A GERMAN CROWD. Think about that for a second.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

But yeah, the IWC does have a way to sweep certain things under the rug when one of their roles models is involved; Benoit's wife stealing and steroid use.

Please, show me proof of Benoit doing steroids. Please. Pictures? We have a picture of Bradshaw doing the Nazi salute. Witnesses? We got that for Bradshaw. Weird how you are making baseless accusations as an attempt to take heat away from a guy who DID A NAZI SALUTE TO A GERMAN CROWD. Think about that for a second.

Baseless accusations are what makes this board go 'round. Nevertheless, even Benoit fans will agree that he's on the juice, so let's not try to turn this into a steroid debate, okay? I don't do it when they call HHH a roid monkey (despite the lack of proof you so desperately seek in this situation) so don't do it now, mkay?

[Guest Brian]

Well, when you make a sweeping generalization about the IWC and then distance yourself away from them like you're above that by posting on a wrestling message board, you reap what you sow in terms of image. And like I said, Eddy deserves a lot more credit for getting over what he did. We could go around all day in dig up Bradshaw's past.

 

Actually, all of those Observer tidbits pointed out it was Bradshaw doing the rape scenes. Whether you believe them or not, that's youre choice, but then again the steroid deal is just as speculative.

[Guest T0rrent]

Please, show me proof of Benoit doing steroids. Please. Pictures?

Benoit's wife stealing and steroid use

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Not that I care much about the main subject at hand (should anyone be surprised??) but I do get a chuckle when I read about this "wife stealing" thing. Was Woman kidnapped from the Sullivan home and I just didn't get the memo?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Why would you bash the people you like?

 

???

[Guest wrestlingbs]

I don't think it's fair to argue that the IWC would have acted differently to a more popular wrestler doing the salute, because I for one hardly trust any wrestlers. Hell, Ric Flair's a great promo man and wrestler, but outside of the ring he sounds like a doublecrossing scubbag and pervert. The only wrestler that I think can be trusted is Mick Foley, just because he seems like a decent guy. But if he starts spewing out racial slurs or crazy shit, you bet I'll turn on the guy!

[Guest Goodear]

It's not your place to agree or disagree with it. You're not German, you don't live in Germany, so don't worry about it unless you plan on visiting there any time soon.

 

People everywhere put themselves into other people's positions and make value judgments. Why would I care if Germany had a Holocaust? I'm not in Germany. I'm not Jewish. I'm not a Gypsy or gay either. I have nop plans to visit the country. Why should I care?

 

That said, regardless of someones occupation - when they're in another country, I'd pretty much think that it's common sense to obey their laws.

 

Granted, but this my friends is a stupid law that shouldn't be on the books. Thats all I'm saying.

 

Calling wrestlers 'actors' is a bit of a stretch, because I'm fairly sure that any movie or play with the salute imagry in it wouldn't get too far in Germany in the first place.

 

More's the pitty that they'll never see Schindler's List or the Indiana Jones Trilogy or Amercian History X... things that all make the Nazi's look really, really BAD. These folks would have a much larger point if they were supressing positive images of Naziism. But all of those things (and Bradshaw BTW, evil wrestler that lost his match) portray the Nazis as bad things and bad people. Why hold those back? Because you want to forget they ever happened. That's never been the way to learn about past mistakes. Never.

 

It's common knowledge from where I sit. Anyone who's seen any sort of information piece on WWII and it's aftermath should've known about these laws.

 

You'd think so but I've watched documentaries on WWII and Hitler and they typically don't end with "Oh and by the way, don't goose step if you visit. It's a felony."

 

Think of it like this: Whether or not it's a 'banned act' I'm pretty fucking sure that the American fans would've been upset if some wrestler came out on TV and re-enacted the events of 9/11 with toy planes and whatnot.

 

Being insulted is a right. Being able to say to yourself that a motion is going too far and should be met with your dissaproval is a right. To boycott because of that dissaproval is a right. Making it a law that it can't be done ever is rediculous.

Edited June 10, 2004 by Goodear

[Guest Goodear]

And what's Layfield guilty of? One stupid gesture and being an average wrestler with a distaste for nerdy internet fans.

 

And ... and ... and.

 

What's funny about this is you were all AND.. AND... AND... and the first guy pretty much covered all of your complaints with "average wrestler". Too bad Bradshaw isn't Ricky Steamboat or he could jerk off in the middle of the ring and then rip up pictures of the Pope. Oh wait, thats pretty much The Dynamite Kid, probably the biggest jerk any of us would ever meet who is treated like king shit because he was dumb enough to cripple himself and put on good matches... never mind.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

It may seem a little weird to you, and it probably is a little weird. But remember that it's the backlash against the most violent power-hungry regime in this planet's history and the rise of a man who's identity will be intwined with evil for many generations to come worldwide. If that's not something to be ashamed about, what is?

 

100% disagree. I don't think modern Germans should have to feel shame over the horrible acts of their governors in the 1940's. Should I have to be ashamed because of my German lineage? No, I should probably only be ashamed because I'm a white southerner.

 

We can't erase the past. We can only learn from it.