English vs Spanish Culure Clash

[Guest Astro]

Here's a report I gave for tech school, What's your opinion on the subject????????

 

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America is called a cultural melting pot. This has been true for many generations as immigrants from Germany, Belgium, Italy and other European countries came over in the last 150 years. Another batch of immigrants were added to the mix during the Korean and Vietnam conflicts, as many people came to America seeking refuge from their war torn countries. In recent years, the Hispanic population has increased in this area as well. The difference between the Hispanic immigration and the others that preceded them is that the Hispanic people don’t seem to be integrating the American culture into their lives as past generations have. The Hispanic adults at a whole seem to lack a great deal of English speaking skills. Many times I’ve seen their US born children act as interpreters for them when they need or want something.

 

Now the question remains, is this due to lack of desire on their part to want to learn the language, or is it due to a lack of areas that the adults can go and learn the language? Whatever the reason is, the language barrier between the Spanish and English speaking populace has created a riff between the two cultures. While just talking to people at work, or in other social places, you can hear that people feel that the Hispanic population is undereducated and have a poor work ethic, and thus are turning toward a life of crime and overall lazy behavior. People also complain at length about having their tax dollars go toward the welfare of the Latino population. The fact that the Hispanic culture is geared toward having larger families, combined with the stereotypes of being lazy and uneducated have led to the great backlash toward their race overall.

 

So with all this negativity being passed around, the Green Bay Board of Directors were asked to assign Brown County with an official language for the government. So now as a governmental group what do you do? Do you declare no official language is necessary based on the “melting pot” theory, or do you add to an already sensitive race situation by making English the official language? What message does that send to our Latino population? It seems a decision like this could reaffirm the negative vibes people have toward the Spanish speaking portion of our population. Then again, we are in America, and English is by far our primary language, so it only seems natural that English be the official language of the government.

 

I’m not sure what banter went back and forth during the Board’s two and a half hour debate, but the result of making English the official government language seems like the right choice to me. Every culture that came before the Latinos left their German, Slavic, Italian or whatever language behind, and learned English, which the majority of the population already spoke. I’m sure that after a generation has passed (20 years or so) that the Hispanic population will have adopted English as their “natural” language, and our cultures will live more harmoniously than they do at this point.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I have no problem with people wanting to come here seeking a better life -- but speak freakin' English, please...

[Guest JacK]

Yeah if you migrate to a country you should at least try and learn the language spoken by the majority of the populace . . . if you can't fair enough I guess, but still the effort should be made.

 

Interesting report though . . . could've done with some figures. Figures are always good, it makes you look all analytical and stuff.

[The Czech Republic 0]

We should all speak the language of jazz.

[Guest SP-1]

I don't mind a multi-lingual country to a degree, but if I'm moving to Japan then I'll at least go over with a base knowledge of Japanese and seek to continue growing in the language.

 

Considering there's alot of illegal immigrants out there, I don't think we should be catering to their native language. If you come to America seeking a better life, try and learn the English language. Heck, English is spoken in alot more places than America.

[Guest MikeSC]

I don't mind a multi-lingual country to a degree, but if I'm moving to Japan then I'll at least go over with a base knowledge of Japanese and seek to continue growing in the language.

 

Considering there's alot of illegal immigrants out there, I don't think we should be catering to their native language. If you come to America seeking a better life, try and learn the English language. Heck, English is spoken in alot more places than America.

And, much as some groups hate to admit it, NOT knowing English is one of the more effective means to insure that the American Dream never happens for you.

 

I, personally, support a bill making English our official language. I have a problem with people getting fired (I know of 2 personally) because they don't know Spanish and they "need" bi-lingual people.

-=Mike

[Big McLargeHuge 0]

I also agree that english should be learned by immigrants. Although I'm a bit more sensitive to the issue than "speak english or get out", being hispanic myself.

 

My family immigrated to the US from Central America in the early 80s, led by my grandmother who was 40 or so at the time. And in the 20 years she's been here, she has yet to learn even basic English. She completely depended on my Mom to learn the language and translate EVERYTHING for her. She still does. I find it unnacceptable, but at the same time understand that it wasn't her intention to stay here for as long as we did.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

Heck, English is spoken in alot more places than America.

Like...England

I'm still expecting it to be renamed "American" at some point.

[Guest BDC]

To be completely honest, I don't understand why exactly the majority populace is expected to change to accomodate those that come from elsewhere.

 

There are already measures in the immigration and naturalization process: they don't print the exams in spanish and there's not supposed to be a translator. Now tell me just exactly where english isn't already semi-official. Y'know, I honestly have no problem with whatever culture you wanna celebrate, but other nations don't change to suit immigrants and I sure am not pleased with even the suggestion of it.

[Black Lushus 0]

as a manager in a warehouse full of hispanics i will say this, if even half of the lazy American bastards would work even a tenth as hard as these immigrants do, i'd be a happy man with an easy job...english speaking or not, these people work hard and they work cheap...though i do push for my associates to take english classes and at least learn the basics...

 

on the flipside, i don't need to sift through Spanish on the BK menu before i get to English to order something, that gets aggravating...

[Richard 0]

Well soon spanish-speakers will be the majority, so maybe we should learn that language.

[Firestarter 0]

SP Huntington wrote an excellent article on this problem in the March/April 2004 issue of Foreign Policy, Astro. Might want to look it up if you're interested.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I used to read Foreign Policy! And Current History, and Foreign Affairs, I believe, were the three journals I had to read for world history my sophomore year.

[Guest Vitamin X]

In any city but Miami this seems to be the case. It also seems to be a bit more dependant on what race of hispanics there are.

 

Puerto Ricans are basically Americans, and are pretty integrated as such. Except for the ones in Miami. Mexicans are a bit more proud of their culture, but I've seen that they do integrate into society as much. Cubans? well that's another story. Unfortunately mr particular race has WAY too much pride and are too stubborn to even learn the most basic of English and as a result the city most dominated by Cubans in the US (Miami) is the only place I've remembered visiting or living in that Spanish is spoken by everyone but English isn't. Occassionally when you go out to the suburbs you might find a few white families who don't speak Spanish, but in general, when going anywhere here you'll find everything goes a lot easier if you speak Spanish, even if it's accented the native speakers don't mind (something the American populace has yet to grasp the concept of). But, in general, Cubans have been so successful here in this country and especially in Miami, that being bilingual is practically a requirement in this particular city.

 

English is a much more difficult language to learn than Spanish. Now, I'm not sure I'm just saying that because Spanish was my first language, but I speak perfectly Californian-accented English, so being here for this long has helped me learn the language perfectly with no accent. Do I think English should be the official language? Well, isn't it already? But I strongly disagree with that if someone doesn't know the language already and they just moved here they should be shunned from employment, health care, what have you. Why does everyone keep labeling all Hispanic immigrants as 'illegal'? NOT ALL HISPANIC IMMIGRANTS ARE ILLEGAL. I don't even think the majority are, but even then fuck it, who cares? Let them come to our country and contribute to our society, that's what the United States was based on.

[Ravenbomb 0]

we should convert to Pig Latin

 

uckfay Englishyay andyay Anishspay

[Highland 0]

What's the language of government?

 

That's the language they should learn. There's nothing wrong, in fact fact it's commendable if you keep your language and culture when you emigrate to another country, but you should at least try to speak the language. When in Rome....

 

(It seems like you guys have the same problem with Hispanics as we have with franophones)

[Guest Joshua A. Norton]

You come into this country

You can't get real jobs

Boats and boats and boats of you

Go home you fuckin' slobs

Selling hot dogs on the corner

Selling papers in the street

Pushing, pulling, digging, sweating

Where you come from must be beat

 

You always make us wait

You're the ones we hate

You can't communicate

Speak English Or Die

You don't know what I want

You don't know what I need

Why must I repeat myself

Can't you fuckin' read?

Nice fuckin' accents

Why can't you speak like me

What's that dot on you head,

Do you use it to see??

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

You come into this country

You can't get real jobs

Boats and boats and boats of you

Go home you fuckin' slobs

Selling hot dogs on the corner

Selling papers in the street

Pushing, pulling, digging, sweating

Where you come from must be beat

 

You always make us wait

You're the ones we hate

You can't communicate

Speak English Or Die

You don't know what I want

You don't know what I need

Why must I repeat myself

Can't you fuckin' read?

Nice fuckin' accents

Why can't you speak like me

What's that dot on you head,

Do you use it to see??

MMM...racism

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

We should all be speaking some Native American language since the Native Americans were here first.

 

Some comic used that on LCS

[Art Sandusky 0]

Interesting paper written on the viability of global language and how languages become extinct

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Language is the most arbitrary shit in the world outside of money and time, which is why I use an abundance of neophones.

[Nighthawk 0]

This is why I wish I lived in Finland. Well, one of the reasons.

[DerangedHermit 0]

I agree with the sentiment of learning the country's language. I hate the Mexicans that don't speak a lick of English, and leech on hardworking people. A town near me (Farmingville) is having a really bad problem with them, and a few years ago, a few of them got beat under the pretense of them getting a job. Most of the town is torn over their being there.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Interesting paper written on the viability of global language and how languages become extinct

3.4 Use of second language in school—causing widespread shift

The language used in school for teaching can influence first or second language shift, as in the Philippines, where people educated before 1972 can speak English as a second language in addition to their home language, while people educated after 1972, when the language used for instruction changed to Tagalog, are more often fluent in Tagalog as a second language than in English. Some people now use Tagalog as their primary language who are not ethnically Tagalog.

 

That's basically the exact same thing that happened with my English and Spanish. I learned Spanish first when I was born up until I was 6 years old and moved to California and then I had to learn English, but did so with such ease and so much practice my English is far more fluent than my Spanish is, despite it being my second language.

 

2.3 Preserve a people’s identity

Many peoples feel that their language expresses their identity. A Russian linguist friend of ours, who was expelled from the USSR for political reasons in 1977, lamented to us that he could no longer write in Russian, his mother tongue, in which he had worked hard to be able to write well. His specialty was Russian lexicology, but he was more limited in expressing himself well in English or French, which were now his only two options.

 

This is a huge reason why hispanics are so adamant about keeping their Spanish, especially in this country. It's part of our role in American society, it distinguishes us from the Arabs, Asians, Blacks, and Whites in the country.

[Guest Anglesault]

I agree with the sentiment of learning the country's language. I hate the Mexicans that don't speak a lick of English, and leech on hardworking people. A town near me (Farmingville) is having a really bad problem with them, and a few years ago, a few of them got beat under the pretense of them getting a job. Most of the town is torn over their being there.

That was ugly.

[treble 0]

What's the language of government?

 

That's the language they should learn. There's nothing wrong, in fact fact it's commendable if you keep your language and culture when you emigrate to another country, but you should at least try to speak the language. When in Rome....

 

(It seems like you guys have the same problem with Hispanics as we have with franophones)

It's not exactly the same, though. Francophones aren't immigrating into a new country, they live in one where French is one of the official languages. They should definitely have a basic knowlege of English, but how many Anglophones can say they have anything past an elementary school knowlege of French (something they probably forget once they no longer have to take it in high school)?

[Hoff 0]

Related query for the group: is Spanish still projected to become the majority language? I'd heard that before and I saw Pyro mention it. Basically, for those not in the know, there was a study of immigration trneds and whatnot that showed people of Mexican/Hispanic descent becoming the most populous racial group in the U.S. (over Caucasians) sometime soon. It would follow that if the trend continues, Spanish may become more widely-spoken than English in the average US home. So...anyone know if that was/still is true?

[Mole 0]

[Guest Vitamin X]

Related query for the group: is Spanish still projected to become the majority language? I'd heard that before and I saw Pyro mention it. Basically, for those not in the know, there was a study of immigration trneds and whatnot that showed people of Mexican/Hispanic descent becoming the most populous racial group in the U.S. (over Caucasians) sometime soon. It would follow that if the trend continues, Spanish may become more widely-spoken than English in the average US home. So...anyone know if that was/still is true?

Oh PLEASE. Spanglish is more widely spoken in most Hispanic householdS (a mixture of Spanish and English), and as long as all the major media, education, and government services are majority English, then we're going to continue speaking English.

 

This really isn't as big of a problem as people are making it out to be, but everyone feels like they need to protest something no matter how irrelevant to make themselves feel better.

[Hoff 0]

Well, all the study said was that Spanish could become the most common language used in households and personal life. Not the end of the world, but it could impact some things.