Urban Warfare 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2004 Vancouver Canuck star Todd Bertuzzi charged with assault causing bodily harm for his on-ice attack of Colorado Avalanche winger Steve Moore. The incident occurred in the third period of Vancouver's 9-2 home loss to Colorado on March 8. The charges were announced by the criminal justice branch of the Ministry of the Attorney General after an investigation that lasted four months. TSN.ca Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2004 Took all this time to figure that out?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treble 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2004 Not really surprising since McSorely was charged for something that wasn't as bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2004 Not really surprising since McSorely was charged for something that wasn't as bad. Yet Dany Heatley is still free even though he killed Dan Snyder. This won't amount to any jail time for Bertuzzi I think, but hopefully they'll levy a hefty fine... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2004 Not really surprising since McSorely was charged for something that wasn't as bad. Yet Dany Heatley is still free even though he killed Dan Snyder. Accidentally. And it's not like that case wasn't investigated thoroughly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2004 Not really surprising since McSorely was charged for something that wasn't as bad. Yet Dany Heatley is still free even though he killed Dan Snyder. Accidentally. And it's not like that case wasn't investigated thoroughly. Yeah, and if I accidentally killed someone, I'm guessing I don't get off so lightly. Then again, OJ and Jayson Williams are running around free as well. Guess Tina Fey was right - athletes ARE allowed to kill you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Bah. I don't like the courts getting involved in sports incidents like this. Bertuzzi should certainly be punished harshly, yes, and it should be done by the NHL. It would be different if one player filed a civil suit against another, but the legal system charging and presumably trying athletes is something I can't support. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Ocean 3 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Bah. I don't like the courts getting involved in sports incidents like this. Bertuzzi should certainly be punished harshly, yes, and it should be done by the NHL. It would be different if one player filed a civil suit against another, but the legal system charging and presumably trying athletes is something I can't support. Someone watched PTI today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Bertuzzi's little attack should've just been ten minutes, not five years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Yeah, that was nothing. He tackled the guy and he landed wrong on his head. I even thought the suspension was excessive. I mean yeah it's too bad that the guy got hurt and all, but Bertuzzi wasn't doing anything out of line enough to merit more than a game misconduct and possibly a short suspension. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 I can't read the sarcasm, if it's there. It's hockey. You have to adjust punishments accordingly. The glass around the rink acts as sort of a damper for severity, I guess. What's unacceptable anywhere else is fair game in hockey. In the NBA you shove a guy and it's a flagrant foul and a big fine. In the NHL you sit on a bench for two minutes. In baseball, you just argue a call at home plate and you're gone. You've really gotta bust your ass to get ejected from an NHL game. That being said, I'd just give Bertuzzi a match penalty and be done with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Yeah, that was nothing. He tackled the guy and he landed wrong on his head. I even thought the suspension was excessive. I mean yeah it's too bad that the guy got hurt and all, but Bertuzzi wasn't doing anything out of line enough to merit more than a game misconduct and possibly a short suspension. You need to watch the video again. This was a Tie Domi-level sucker shot. Probably even beyond that. When goons like Donald Brashear call it "excessive", you know it's bad. So I'm sorry, but that sure as hell wasn't "nothing". If the NHL had balls, Bertuzzi would be gone as long as Steve Moore is. But they don't and he won't, so we'll be seeing a similar incident in another 2 years or so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Platypus 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Yeah, that was nothing. He tackled the guy and he landed wrong on his head. I even thought the suspension was excessive. I mean yeah it's too bad that the guy got hurt and all, but Bertuzzi wasn't doing anything out of line enough to merit more than a game misconduct and possibly a short suspension. You need to watch the video again. This was a Tie Domi-level sucker shot. Probably even beyond that. When goons like Donald Brashear call it "excessive", you know it's bad. So I'm sorry, but that sure as hell wasn't "nothing". If the NHL had balls, Bertuzzi would be gone as long as Steve Moore is. But they don't and he won't, so we'll be seeing a similar incident in another 2 years or so... The problem that I have with the situation is that Bertuzzi is getting charged with the results of the hit, not the hit itself. Cheap shot? Yeah it was as dirty as they come. I really don't think that anyone can say to themselves (or others) that they really think that it was Bertuzzi's intent to cripple Moore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nl5xsk1 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 I disagree with the whole "it's not the hit but the result of the hit" argument, because what if I get into a bar fight and knock a guy out. When he goes down, his head snaps back and bounces off the floor, and this ends up killing him. I'd get charged with murder, even though it wasn't my punch that actually killed him. If the Bertuzzi incident happened on the streets or in a bar or something, yes, it'd be right to charge him. But it didn't, it happened on a hockey rink, and thus shouldn't be held up to normal public laws. If they're going to charge him for this, then wouldn't every fight have to have charges against them (it is against the law to fight in pubic, is it not?)? And wouldn't every slash and spear and elbow be charge-able offenses, too? I mean, you can't just spear someone with a hockey stick while at a McDonald's, it'd be assault. The courst should just stay out of this - let the league take care of itself and keep the judicial system far the fuck away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted June 25, 2004 If Bertuzzi pulled out a gun or did something that is not part of hockey - I'd understand the courts getting involved. But, punhcing is a part of the game. Many of you will TRY to disagree, but these types of suckerpunches are common in hockey - people simply don't break their necks. Bertuzzi should be punished within the confines of hockey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 Bah. I don't like the courts getting involved in sports incidents like this. Bertuzzi should certainly be punished harshly, yes, and it should be done by the NHL. It would be different if one player filed a civil suit against another, but the legal system charging and presumably trying athletes is something I can't support. Someone watched PTI today. Actually, since I'm in school on Thursday evenings, I don't get a chance to see PTI. Good try, though. If courts are going to take action on something like this, what happens the next time Roger Clemens beans Mike Piazza in the head? What about a hard Ray Lewis tackle that snaps someone's knee ligaments? Where is the line drawn? Sports are self-policing, and the courts should let them remain that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
starvenger 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2004 If courts are going to take action on something like this, what happens the next time Roger Clemens beans Mike Piazza in the head? What about a hard Ray Lewis tackle that snaps someone's knee ligaments? Where is the line drawn? Sports are self-policing, and the courts should let them remain that way. Here's the thing - there's precedent in Canada for this. Dino Ciccarelli spent a night in jail for using Luke Richardson's back to break his stick. So as it pertains to a hockey game in Canada, the courts CAN take action if they so choose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Ocean 3 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2004 Heh..."good try." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2004 Here's the thing - there's precedent in Canada for this. Dino Ciccarelli spent a night in jail for using Luke Richardson's back to break his stick. So as it pertains to a hockey game in Canada, the courts CAN take action if they so choose. I understand that. I don't agree with it at all, but I know that it's happened. My question was (and still is), where is the line drawn? Since this silly court intervention applies in Canada and not the US (for now... the devil only knows how it's stayed out of our legal system this long), I'll use some Canadian examples. What if Roy Halladay drills someone in the head at a home game, apparently in retaliation for a Jay being hit, and that player suffers a serious injury? What if the CFL equivlent of Ray Lewis delivers a hard hit and snaps someone's leg, ending their career? What if the broom gives out in curling and some chap falls on his face, breaking his jaw and teeth in the process? Ok, the last one wasn't serious, but the first two are. Where is the line drawn? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2004 Well, pitching the ball is part of the game. Tackling a player is part of the game. Punching a player in the face is not part of the game. On the reverse side, if on-field incidents can't be prosecuted, what's to stop a player from going balls-out to cause injuries? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 27, 2004 Here's the thing - there's precedent in Canada for this. Dino Ciccarelli spent a night in jail for using Luke Richardson's back to break his stick. So as it pertains to a hockey game in Canada, the courts CAN take action if they so choose. I understand that. I don't agree with it at all, but I know that it's happened. My question was (and still is), where is the line drawn? Since this silly court intervention applies in Canada and not the US (for now... the devil only knows how it's stayed out of our legal system this long), I'll use some Canadian examples. What if Roy Halladay drills someone in the head at a home game, apparently in retaliation for a Jay being hit, and that player suffers a serious injury? What if the CFL equivlent of Ray Lewis delivers a hard hit and snaps someone's leg, ending their career? What if the broom gives out in curling and some chap falls on his face, breaking his jaw and teeth in the process? Ok, the last one wasn't serious, but the first two are. Where is the line drawn? Tom, by the same token, when something is done SOLELY to injure a guy (can anybody name a reason why Bertuzzi did it OTHER than to hurt him? It's not like what he did served any purpose in the game), something needs to be done. He broke a man's neck. A man's livelihood might be taken away forever. And it wasn't off a clean check or even a fluke --- it was a deliberate attack. You can ALWAYS argue that you didn't INTEND to bean a batter. Bertuzzi can't claim that he wasn't looking to injure him. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2004 But he really wasn't looking to injure him. He just wanted to make him feel a world of pain for a few minutes and then be done. He certainly had no idea he was gonna fuck up the guy's career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 27, 2004 But he really wasn't looking to injure him. He just wanted to make him feel a world of pain for a few minutes and then be done. He certainly had no idea he was gonna fuck up the guy's career. iggy, if he was seeking to make him "feel a world of pain", then injury was the goal. The severity of the injury was not intended --- but it doesn't change what he did. That was when he crossed the line from legitimate hockey act to outright assault. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nl5xsk1 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2004 Mike, his goal was to fight Moore ... and maybe to cause him some pain. I really don't think his goal was to seriously injure the guy. Plus, if what Bertuzzi did is a charge-able offense, what about what Moore had done to Naslund a few weeks before? He basically elbowed him in the head, giving the man a concussion. If I walk out my front door right now and elbow a guy, I'm most likely going to be charged with assault. Why isn't Moore being charged for that hit? And what about every other elbowing penalty, slashing penalty, charging penalty, etc; shouldn't those be assault charges as well? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 27, 2004 Mike, his goal was to fight Moore ... and maybe to cause him some pain. I really don't think his goal was to seriously injure the guy. Plus, if what Bertuzzi did is a charge-able offense, what about what Moore had done to Naslund a few weeks before? He basically elbowed him in the head, giving the man a concussion. If I walk out my front door right now and elbow a guy, I'm most likely going to be charged with assault. Why isn't Moore being charged for that hit? And what about every other elbowing penalty, slashing penalty, charging penalty, etc; shouldn't those be assault charges as well? There is a line that can be crossed. All sports have it. Pitcher beaning a batter? Not a crime, even if the batter is killed. Batter attacking a pitcher with a bat? Crime. Football player nailing a guy with a tackle and injuring him? Not a crime. Nailing a guy who's on the sidelines and not even looking, injuring him? A crime. Yup, the line is arbitrary --- but the line has to be drawn. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 27, 2004 What was the reasoning behind Roger Clemens throwing at Mike Piazza's head, Mike. He was trying to hurt him very badly, and there was NO other reason. All sports have that kind of thing. Hell, every fight in the NHL has that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 28, 2004 What was the reasoning behind Roger Clemens throwing at Mike Piazza's head, Mike. He was trying to hurt him very badly, and there was NO other reason. All sports have that kind of thing. Hell, every fight in the NHL has that. Pitchers throwing at batter isn't a crime. Hell, you can't PROVE that it wasn't unintentional. I can't believe that anybody can BEGIN to defend what Bertuzzi did. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nl5xsk1 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2004 Let me ask you this one then, Mike ... what about a fight in a baseball game or a basketball game? Neither of those sports 'allow' fighting the way the NHL does, so it really would be outside the standard sporting rules. Should a player that injures another in a basketball or baseball brawl be charged with assault? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 28, 2004 Let me ask you this one then, Mike ... what about a fight in a baseball game or a basketball game? Neither of those sports 'allow' fighting the way the NHL does, so it really would be outside the standard sporting rules. Should a player that injures another in a basketball or baseball brawl be charged with assault? In some cases, yes. Kermit Washington (I believe that was the man) should have gone to jail for what he did to Tomjanovich years ago. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2004 In some cases, yes. Kermit Washington (I believe that was the man) should have gone to jail for what he did to Tomjanovich years ago. In fairness, Washington did have a case that he acted in self-defense, as Tomjanovich was running towards him at that moment. Let me ask you this one then, Mike ... what about a fight in a baseball game or a basketball game? Neither of those sports 'allow' fighting the way the NHL does, so it really would be outside the standard sporting rules. Should a player that injures another in a basketball or baseball brawl be charged with assault? Baseball and basketball fights, when they occur, are usually face-to-face encounters. There's a difference between fighting, and an assault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
