Official "I saw Fahrenheit 9/11" thread......

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, treble, you might want to look at the first 2 posts of this thread. If they were searching for a non-political discussion, they certainly didn't lay the groundwork for it.

 

They wanted a circle jerk.

-=Mike

[IllustriousOne 0]

Well, Mike, you might want to look at the title of the folder.

 

They were OBVIOUSLY (Read: Not really) looking for a discussion about what you think of Michael Moore.

 

Keep it to your folder, and keep this thread on topic.

 

EDIT: So that I contribute... I haven't seen the movie yet, so I won't comment about it. Though, every devoutly obsessive liberal I know is salivating over this movie like it's the second coming of political God.

 

Yeah I won't be subscribing to that review just yet, and I'm sure that if anything else, I'll be entertained if not amused by Moore's documentary, regardless of my political affiliations.

 

-Josh

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, Mike, you might want to look at the title of the folder.

 

They were OBVIOUSLY (Read: Not really) looking for a discussion about what you think of Michael Moore.

 

Keep it to your folder, and keep this thread on topic.

I saw the title. However, the POSTS made clearly don't go along with the professed intentions.

-=Mike

[IllustriousOne 0]

You strike me as a fairly intelligent, if sometimes overbearingly intelligent person, so surely you'd be able to see that this is a "I saw this movie and want to talk about it" thread rather than a "Talk about Michael Moore's opinions and misconceptions" thread.

 

Now then, nothing left to see here... Continue with movie discussion.

[NoCalMike 0]

Well, Mike, you might want to look at the title of the folder.

 

They were OBVIOUSLY (Read: Not really) looking for a discussion about what you think of Michael Moore.

 

Keep it to your folder, and keep this thread on topic.

 

EDIT: So that I contribute... I haven't seen the movie yet, so I won't comment about it. Though, every devoutly obsessive liberal I know is salivating over this movie like it's the second coming of political God.

 

Yeah I won't be subscribing to that review just yet, and I'm sure that if anything else, I'll be entertained if not amused by Moore's documentary, regardless of my political affiliations.

 

-Josh

I wouldn't say I am salivating over it, but I will admit it was a lot better then I thought it would be.

 

The one thing that did disturb me was that during the the beginning when Moore was trying to break down the election of 2000, there was a lot of information and commentary that I thought was pretty much general information that anyone who watches the news would know, yet half the audience reacted like it was the first time they had heard all of this....

[Mole 0]

Well, treble, you might want to look at the first 2 posts of this thread. If they were searching for a non-political discussion, they certainly didn't lay the groundwork for it.

 

They wanted a circle jerk.

      -=Mike

They didn't?

 

I just got back from a 10:30pm showing on a Sunday night, and was suprised by the large crowd.....

 

As for the documentary itself, I must say that this is a lot less like other Moore films that I have seen.  I think he takes a few steps back as far as himself goes.  This film is a lot less about "Michael Moore doing this, doing that" etc.........It is mostly just him doing voice-overs or interviews with himself off the camera shot.

 

The film covered more topics then I thought it was going to.  It basically covered from the moment Bush won the election, and covered the more important events leading up 9/11, post 9/11, Iraq War, Military campaign, post Saddam Iraq, and then the current situation.

 

I thought it was pretty good, definately entertaining. 

 

I never really saw anything in this film to suggest that Moore, "hates america"

 

I didn't see the argument there.  To me it was about Moore disagreeing with the politics and decisions of the current administration, and yes it was very bias in doing so.

 

I am kind of tired so that is in depth as I get for tonight........

 

 

Looks to me that NoCal was dicussing the movie there.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The one thing that did disturb me was that during the the beginning when Moore was trying to break down the election of 2000, there was a lot of information and commentary that I thought was pretty much general information that anyone who watches the news would know, yet half the audience reacted like it was the first time they had heard all of this....

You'd be amazed at the ignorance of the general public...

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Yeah. I mean, c'mon. "Friends" was a popular show! Never trust the collective intelligence of the general public. NEVER.

 

Kotz, I took that joke from the old Trey Parker and Matt Stone show "That's My Bush." Very, VERY underrated comedy, and the only reason people didn't watch it is because it was a parody of sitcom's more so than a parody of George W. Plus, the guy that played George W. had him dead-on. Didn't he also play Bush in a serious made-for-TV movie about 9/11, or something?

 

I haven't seen F9/11 yet, but I have seen Columbine. And Columbine sucked. Moore went from trying to figure out why Americans were so violent to walking around and entering people's houses in Canada, and then he tried to say we're violent because we're white and scared of the black folk and the Native folk, and then it all turned into how Charlton Heston is evil for standing up for what he believes in (no limitations of the 2nd Amendment) and how K-Mart shouldn't sell bullets. I mean, Jesus Walt, what the hell are you doing? You know you're just going to get that cat stuck up your ass again. And then he said "Brodi, man: how the hell else am I supposed to get the gerbil out?"

 

My cousin was a weird guy.

[Guest MikeSC]

I wouldn't say I am salivating over it, but I will admit it was a lot better then I thought it would be.

 

The one thing that did disturb me was that during the the beginning when Moore was trying to break down the election of 2000, there was a lot of information and commentary that I thought was pretty much general information that anyone who watches the news would know, yet half the audience reacted like it was the first time they had heard all of this....

Care to provide EXAMPLES of the "facts" he delivered that the public didn't know?

 

Let me guess, blacks were excluded from the voting rolls. Ex-cons were purged by the order of Katherine Harris. Any other myths?

 

I'd correct Wolf --- but what the hell's the point? His head is too embedded in his ass as is.

-=Mike

...And Corey rules for the "Mallrats" reference...

[1234-5678 0]

"The Reagans" was MILDLY critical?

 

Ebert is a fucking moron.

           -=Mike

Could you stop being so bitchy and obsessively pedantic?

I will if you will...

-=Mike

..."So what if a movie invents things to make a man look bad? The man IS A REPUBLICAN! HE DESERVES IT, DAMMIT!"

List what was invented. Show some facts instead of implications and maybe you won't come across as so goddamned annoying.

 

I just saw it, and wasn't overly impressed, but just from coming in here, you forced me to like the film. Way to go.

[Guest MikeSC]

"The Reagans" was MILDLY critical?

 

Ebert is a fucking moron.

           -=Mike

Could you stop being so bitchy and obsessively pedantic?

I will if you will...

-=Mike

..."So what if a movie invents things to make a man look bad? The man IS A REPUBLICAN! HE DESERVES IT, DAMMIT!"

List what was invented. Show some facts instead of implications and maybe you won't come across as so goddamned annoying.

 

I just saw it, and wasn't overly impressed, but just from coming in here, you forced me to like the film. Way to go.

Oh, his ENTIRE stance on AIDS was invented. He gave money for AIDS research every year starting in 1982. He gave AIDS patients federal protection. He had Koop's brochure on the disease mailed to every house in the country. He mentioned AIDS in his 1986 State of the Union speech and made it the top priority of the Dept. of Health & Human Services.

 

Remember how "The Reagans" portrayed his stance on AIDS? As God's retribution to gays for being gay.

 

Would you like more?

-=Mike

[1234-5678 0]

We may have misunderstood each other. I was referring to Moore's film.

[Guest MikeSC]

We may have misunderstood each other. I was referring to Moore's film.

Hmmm, care for a list?

 

Bush allowed Saudi nationals to leave without the FBI interviewing them. This is contradicted by the FBI and Richard Clarke.

 

Bush's actions have been dictated by a closeness to the bin Laden clan. The bin Laden clan disowned Osama years ago. And Moore is as tied to the bin Ladens (through the Carlyle group) as Bush.

 

Iraq under Saddam was a happy place with kids flying kites and the like. He did a BANG-UP job of ignoring, oh, ALL of the problems.

 

Iraq under Saddam never threatened ANY American --- well, provided one ignores the plot to kill Bush Sr. in 1993. And the hostages taken when Iraq conquered Kuwait. And the firing on aircraft in the no-fly zones every single day for 10 years straight.

 

The Saudis run our foreign policy --- except that they vigorously opposed the war in Iraq and refused to allow us to use bases in Arabia.

 

You mean like this stuff?

-=Mike

[Guest slacklet]

We may have misunderstood each other. I was referring to Moore's film.

 

Mike wouldn't know, he refuses to see it.

 

This thread was made to discuss the film Fahrenheit 9/11 as a creative work.

 

But uber-conservative Mike had to go and impose his idealism on us for the millionth time.

 

We know you're a republican. Now go outside and see something other than your dick before you post again in this thread.

 

I suggest the number-one movie in America.

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike wouldn't know, he refuses to see it.

 

This thread was made to discuss the film Fahrenheit 9/11 as a creative work.

 

But uber-conservative Mike had to go and impose his idealism on us for the millionth time.

 

We know you're a republican. Now go outside and see something other than your dick before you post again in this thread.

 

I suggest the number-one movie in America.

DL'ing it as we speak. I get to shred it AND not give one dime to that useless fat fuck.

 

And, it should be noted, you're an unmitigated shitbag.

-=Mike

[Damaramu 0]

Ok seriously. How the hell is MikeSC getting away with this shit? This isn't Current Events nor is this HD but he's trolling and flaming away like mad.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Mike, do you want any popcorn?

[Guest MikeSC]

Ok seriously. How the hell is MikeSC getting away with this shit? This isn't Current Events nor is this HD but he's trolling and flaming away like mad.

Because, unlike you, I'm also delivering a little content. Now go back to bemoaning the cruelty of fate for your Sooners or something.

Mike, do you want any popcorn?

I was asked to provide examples.

 

Examples were provided.

 

Bitch if you wish.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

usually people eat popcorn at movies.

 

I guess you don't want any popcorn.

[Guest MikeSC]

usually people eat popcorn at movies.

 

I guess you don't want any popcorn.

Can't stand popcorn. Besides, one shouldn't eat this late at night.

-=Mike

[Dangerous A 0]

Just finished up watching this one about an hour ago.

 

It's good and very entertaining. Personally I didn't like how he gave pot shots at the military, but I was raised in a military family and am proud my father was in the military, but that is a personal bias.

 

He makes an excellent case that the events of 9/11 ended up with a war in Iraq and how they don't really connect. I agree with Moore in that we should've taken action against Afghanistan earlier than we did and that should've been the focus of any war our government waged after 9/11. He also shows how innocent people are effected by war and makes a strong case about the Bush administration not being the most competant group of folks as well as not on the up and up.

 

I do have some problems with the film however. I can say that there was a condescending tone with Moore, especially during his narratives. It's almost like he doesn't think we're smart enough to follow along, so he speaks down to us and says take my hand and follow me, I have the answers. Moore also has some of his big "Gotcha!" moments being questioned like the bin Laden family being allowed to leave soon after 9/11 without being questioned when they might have. The oil pipeline bit was reaching and as Newsweek pointed out, that project was something that was about to go down during Clinton's terms. I feel that Moore had a great oppurtunity to make clear that the reason we went to war in Iraq was bullshit, but his glaring ommisions of the truth and slant on everything, along with his obvious hatred for Bush cloud a good movie that had an oppurtunity to be great.

 

 

Bottom line: A good movie that was highly entertaining, but to call this a "documentary" is absurd. It's an op-ed movie at best, propaganda at worst.

[1234-5678 0]

Bush's actions have been dictated by a closeness to the bin Laden clan. The bin Laden clan disowned Osama years ago. And Moore is as tied to the bin Ladens (through the Carlyle group) as Bush.

There was some footage of Osama at a family gathering within the last few years in F911.

[NoCalMike 0]

If I remember correctly, it wasn't just the Bin Laden family that Moore was talking about, rather approx 140 Saudi royal members and family members. And there is conflicting reports as to whether they had clearance and how exactly they were cleared.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Curry: Man, that film makes me proud to be a canadian. I'm going to go home, smoke some BC-bud and pop open a Molsons.

 

Rudo: And I'm gonna fill my van up with Saudi Oil~!

 

... the rest will be featured in RudoCurry Industries Present...

 

Coming SOMETIME.

[NoCalMike 0]

Mike wouldn't know, he refuses to see it.

 

This thread was made to discuss the film Fahrenheit 9/11 as a creative work.

 

But uber-conservative Mike had to go and impose his idealism on us for the millionth time.

 

We know you're a republican.  Now go outside and see something other than your dick before you post again in this thread.

 

I suggest the number-one movie in America.

DL'ing it as we speak. I get to shred it AND not give one dime to that useless fat fuck.

 

And, it should be noted, you're an unmitigated shitbag.

-=Mike

Everyone let's welcome our newest member to the SmartMark's Communist Party.........MikeSC

[2GOLD 0]

Bottom line: A good movie that was highly entertaining, but to call this a "documentary" is absurd. It's an op-ed movie at best, propaganda at worst.

 

That actually summed up my feelings as well. It was nice and tolerable, nothing major. I went in as middle of the road, I left as middle of the road and still not liking Moore.

 

It's there, like "Garfield" or "Riddick". It's not eye opening, it's not ground breaking and I don't even see where it's a documentary. After seeing it I still say that if you want to call this a documentary then you have to call "Blair Witch Project" one since they are on that same level. Entertaining at times, does have some bright spots but nothing I didn't already know.

 

Had this been done by someone a little more in the middle, I think it would have came off as a much better film. Moore's hatred for Bush just hurts the film as it progresses along which is what I kind of expected but hoped he wouldn't do. At times he comes across like Bush used to beat him up for his milk money when he was a kid.

 

Good film, kinda just there and dragged down by Moore acting too much like a scorned man. I'm sure the over the top Democrats will call it the greatest, the over the top Republicans will hate it but for what it was it wasn't horrible and really wasn't much better than anything he has ever done. He continues to hurt his own work.

[1234-5678 0]

It's not like Blair Witch at all. The man is stating facts, albeit with a slant, but they are facts nontheless. Just because he has an opinion on said facts, doesn't make them not facts. I can't explain it any clearer.

 

"The author of the piece, reporter Philip Shenon (who has covered the federal 9/11 commission for the past year) predicts that Moore “may face an onslaught of fact-checking” unlike any a documentary film-maker has faced before. Shenon’s verdict: “It seems safe to say that central assertions of fact in ‘Fahrenherit 9/11’ are supported by the public record….” "

 

"Shenon says Moore “is on firm ground” in arguing that the Bushes have profited handsomely from their relationships with the Saudis, including the bin Laden family and the Saudi rulers. He also notes that Moore is safe in charging that Bush paid too little attention to terrorism before 9/11, and suggests he is accurate when he claims that during Bush’s first eight months in office he spent 42% of his time on vacation (the source being The Washington Post. "

 

Link

[NoCalMike 0]

to me the central message of the film, and what he wants the viewers mostly to walk away with is opinion he shares that the War on Iraq was an unncessary war that was made possible because our nation was in fear of 9/11 and willing to let Bush and his administration basically do anything they wanted as they long as they told us "it will make us safer" And IMO, he backs up that CENTRAL CLAIM/BELIEF just fine. The documentary as a whole, yes may have some flaws, and looks to be rough around the edges, but the central message to me was strong and supported pretty well.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I don't see why conservatives get all tied in a knot over this movie. It is simply a counter-point to the Rush, Hannity, Fox News type material. So some liberals had their say and others are happy to have heard it. So what. Calm the fuck down.

 

The movie IS quite the ride as it covers much of the last 4 years. Moore does a good job of making his point using whatever details he has available. The most damnig IMO was the double-cross he made with Bush releasing his medical records. Since he already HAD a copy, the reason for wanting BUSH to release it becomes more clear: What would Bush black out of the records. That being that Bath guys name. Make no mistake about it. Moore played them for suckers on this one. They bit on it, as in Moores mind James Bath is the glue that holds together his claim about the Bush/Bin Ladens connection.

 

I so did feel terribly for that woman who had lost her son last march. It was the hardest part of the film to watch... for me at least. Which is weird since I had just seen fucked up gross little kids with chuncks missing out of their arm, as well as more footage of those people that were burned and hung from that bridge.

 

I am reminded (by this film) of the old news footage that used to come back during Vietnam which so many have blamed for turning so many peoples minds 30 years ago. We don't see very much of this type of thing on the news very often anymore, as it is right away labelled as hurting the war effort. It pisses me off that things are so sanitised. It makes me grateful that this movie is out so I can make an even better and more informed opinion now that I know what the left thinks (cuz I'm sure as hell not gonna get it from Tom Dachle sp?). I do agree that there should also be a balance of news stories showing the successes of the war if any. Of our troops doing great and benevolant things but we cannot ignore the toll that is paid. It must be seen and not showing the results good or bad misrepresents the war to those it matters to the most.

 

In fact by the end of the film I had more of a feeling of partriotism than I had felt in years. Which is unusual considering the feeling of dread I have as it concerns Americas future.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I thought the point of this film -much like the point of every Moore film- is class war. Where the "Have Mores", as Bush calls them, are profiting off White House Initiatives -particularly the War in Iraq- and the people doing the dirty work are the soldiers - much of whom are victims of White House initiatives (which is to say, lower class, and the only work they can find is being a soldier). While families are suffering, Bush is busy scratching the backs of those who scratched his.