Saddam being handed over to Iraq for trial

[Guest INXS]

Ok, why wasn't this appearance broadcast live? Why do we have to wait hours later to see Saddam in court earlier today? Are they afraid that Saddam will say something they don't want us to hear? It stands to reason that it will come out about Saddam being funded by the US to fight Iran....or will it, thanks to nice editing?

[Vyce 0]

Ok, why wasn't this appearance broadcast live? Why do we have to wait hours later to see Saddam in court earlier today? Are they afraid that Saddam will say something they don't want us to hear? It stands to reason that it will come out about Saddam being funded by the US to fight Iran....or will it, thanks to nice editing?

You continue to be a complete fucking moron.

 

As to why it wasn't broadcast live - you ARE aware that there's a time zone difference between the Middle East & the Western world, right? Iraq runs 8 hours AHEAD of the U.S. time zones. That means that events which take place at, say, 12 o'clock noon in Baghdad are actually taking place at 4 o'clock in the fucking morning in America.

 

They're not broadcasting it live for the simple reason that they want to show this footage when people are actually awake to see it.

[Guest INXS]

Thanks for flaming.

 

It wasn't 4am where I am, get it now? It wasn't broadcast live ANYWHERE.

 

Also, with a story this big, not just from a public interest point of view but historically as well, you would think that they would show the footage live. They can still show it again later in the day.

[Vanhalen 0]

Fucking Americans removed the sound from the footage

 

 

Iraq's ex-leader Saddam Hussein has made a defiant appearance before an Iraqi judge, branding President George W Bush as the "real criminal".

He defended Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, said he was still president and rejected the court's jurisdiction.

 

He arrived in handcuffs and chains at the court near Baghdad airport to hear charges of war crimes and genocide.

 

TV pictures of the hearing were released to international broadcasters shortly after the hearing finished.

 

The images - cleared for broadcast by the US military - were the first of Saddam Hussein since his capture in December. They showed Iraq's former president looking thin, haggard and with a trimmed, grey beard.

 

POSSIBLE CHARGES

Invasion of Kuwait

Suppression of Kurd and Shia uprisings

Iran-Iraq War

Gas attack on Kurds

 

Saddam Hussein, described by reporters at the hearing as both defiant and downcast, denounced the proceedings as "theatre" and questioned the validity of the law he was to be tried under.

 

"I am Saddam Hussein, President of Iraq," he replied when asked to confirm his identity at the hearing, which took place inside one of his former palaces, now a sprawling US base.

 

A list of seven preliminary charges was read out to him, including accusations over the campaign against the Kurds in the 1980s, which included the use of chemical weapons in Halabja, and the suppression of Kurdish and Shia uprisings after the 1991 Gulf War.

 

Saddam Hussein refused to concede that he had invaded Kuwait in 1990.

 

"How can you, as an Iraqi, say the 'invasion of Kuwait' when Kuwait is part of Iraq?" he asked the judge, whose face was not shown on the film and whose identity is being kept secret for security reasons.

 

According to a CNN reporter at the hearing, Saddam Hussein said "please" a lot as he tried to interrupt the judge. But he also challenged the court's jurisdiction, refusing at the end to sign legal papers that he had been read his rights and understood the charges against him.

 

He was then taken back to jail, while the charges were read out one-by-one against the 11 other accused.

 

These include former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz and Ali Hasan al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali" for his alleged role in poison gas attacks, who were formally transferred from US to Iraqi custody on Wednesday.

 

Defence concerns

 

Saddam Hussein's lawyers have already challenged the court's legitimacy.

 

One member of his 20-strong defence team, Mohammed Rashdan, told the BBC's Today programme that they had been denied access to their client.

 

TOP DETAINEES

Tariq Aziz - Deputy PM

Taha Yassin Ramadan - Vice-President

Sultan Hashim Ahmad al-Tal - Defence Minister

Abid Hamid al-Tikrit - Presidential secretary

Ali Hasan al-Majid - "Chemical Ali"

Watban Ibrahim Hassan al-Tikriti - Saddam Hussein's half-brother - Intelligence Minister

 

He also alleged that they had received death threats from the Iraqi government.

 

Iraq's new national security adviser, Mowaffaq al-Rubaie, has insisted the process will not be a show trial.

 

"As an Iraqi interim government, we promise our people and the Arab world and the outside world, we promise that Saddam will stand a fair trial," he said in a BBC interview.

 

The government is considering restoring the death penalty and Mr Rubaie said Saddam Hussein could face execution if convicted.

 

The full trials may not get under way until next year as many issues still need to be resolved and could take months or even years.

 

The BBC's Christian Frasier in Baghdad says there are concerns in Iraq that crucial evidence has still to be gathered.

 

The Coalition Provisional Authority has identified more than 250 mass graves, but as yet there have been no full forensic exhumations and investigations are being hampered by the lack of security on the ground.

 

Our correspondent says without a system in place to gather statements and protect those who come forward there are fears that many valuable witnesses will be lost.

 

But the interim Iraqi government has dismissed such concerns, insisting that the evidence is already overwhelming, as Saddam Hussein's regime was meticulous in recording the most minute details of abuses carried out.

[Guest INXS]

No sound?! I hate to sound like a conspiracy theory nut but is anyone else just a tad concerned.....?!

[tommytomlin 0]

It stands to reason that it will come out about Saddam being funded by the US to fight Iran....or will it, thanks to nice editing?

Dude, I had a two hour lecture about that subject a few weeks ago at university. It's not exactly top secret business, and even then, a whole bunch of other countries funded Saddam.

 

 

As for the sound, apparently it was removed to protect the identity of the judge.

[Vanhalen 0]

A little more information

 

Saddam Hussein arrived in chains at a palace complex once used by his inner circle for hunting, fishing and other pleasurable diversions.

The ex-Iraqi leader was flown to the complex by helicopter and brought to the makeshift courtroom in an armoured bus, escorted by four US military vehicles and a military ambulance.

 

The handcuffs, attached to a chain around his waist, were then removed, dropping to the floor outside the courtroom with a clatter.

 

He was then taken inside by two imposing Iraqi prison guards, while six other guards waited outside.

 

"This is all a theatre. The real villain is Bush"

 

Saddam Hussein 

With free hands, the former president was able to jab his finger aggressively at the judges when he became animated, during the half-hour hearing to read out the seven preliminary charges against him.

 

'President'

 

Dressed in a grey pin-striped suit and white shirt - and looking thinner than before - the ex-Iraqi leader was at times defiant and at times subdued.

 

But he was wholly different from the submissive and dishevelled prisoner last seen by the world when he was captured in December.

 

"I am Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq," the accused said hoarsely when asked to confirm his name by the court.

 

Asked about his profession he repeated the statement: "I am president of Iraq."

 

"Under what law am I being tried here?" he asked the judges towards the end of the hearing.

 

How could you defend those dogs [the Kuwaitis]? They were trying to turn Iraqi women into 10-dinar prostitutes

 

Saddam Hussein 

When he was told that it was Iraqi justice, he mocked the judges asking how - as "president" - could he be tried under laws that he himself had put in place.

 

As the charges were read out, he became enraged when the judges got to the section involving the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

 

"How can you as an Iraqi talk about the 'Iraqi invasion of Kuwait'?

 

"Kuwait is Iraqi territory. It was not an invasion."

 

"How could you defend those dogs? They were trying to turn Iraqi women into 10-dinar prostitutes" [by undercutting the price of Iraqi oil].

 

He was rebuked for using insulting language by the judges, who told him this was not permitted in a court of law.

 

Hesitant guards

 

At another point, the former president looked around smilingly at the court and remarked: "This is all a theatre. The real villain is Bush."

 

Regarding the charge concerning the chemical weapons attack on the Kurds of Halabja in 1988, he said he had heard about such attacks during his rule "on television".

 

And again he mocked the court when asked if he wanted it to provide lawyers to defend him.

 

"But everyone says, the Americans say, I have millions of dollars stashed away in Geneva. Why shouldn't I afford a lawyer?"

 

Not surprisingly then, at the end of the arraignment Saddam Hussein refused to sign the list of charges against him until he had a defence lawyer present.

 

At which point the guards were told to take the prisoner away. One of them hesitated, apparently not quite knowing what to do with this man who less than 18 months ago was an all-powerful tyrant who ruled Iraq with a rod of iron.

 

Eventually, he tucked his hands under Saddam Hussein's elbows and led him away.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Sadaam's pimping the Sean Connery look, cool.

 

INXS, please tone down the conspiracy theory arguments. It's making those of us trying to play the other side with some ration look horrible.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I don't actually  agree with the death penalty so life in soiltary confinement is a suitable punishment in my view.

How about we send him to live with you?

Hmm, well, Saddam would either A) Shoot himself after 4 hours, or B) Get along great with him. Too much of a risk...

[Downhome 0]

I want Saddam and Baghdad Bob (I forget his name) to go on the road as a comedic duo.

 

[Guest MikeSC]

Thanks for flaming.

 

It wasn't 4am where I am, get it now? It wasn't broadcast live ANYWHERE.

 

Also, with a story this big, not just from a public interest point of view but historically as well, you would think that they would show the footage live. They can still show it again later in the day.

Why WOULD it be broadcast live? Are you just LOOKING for reasons to gripe? It was broadcast --- but you're mad because it wasn't broadcast live.

No sound?! I hate to sound like a conspiracy theory nut but is anyone else just a tad concerned.....?!

1) You sound like a conspiracy nut here. You're looking under EVERYTHING for some deep, dark conspiracy.

2) No, I could care less if the audio is not there.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

 

Until I noticed the bottom half of that chair, I was worried that my computer chair was the same as Saddam's chair.

 

Well, that's a relief

[Guest INXS]

That's because you take everything given to you on face value.

 

I stated in a previous post why it should've/I expected it to be broadcast live. Go read it.

 

It's now come out that the tape of Saddam's appearance was heavily edited by the US before it was handed to the media and that only a handful of hand picked journalists were allowed in to the court room. WHY?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Is that you Unger?

[Guest INXS]

I'm not THAT bad am I?!

 

I'll chill..perhaps I think too much about these things.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Bring back the boobie avatar Unger.

[Guest INXS]

I'm not Unger! And don't put me in with him.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

"What chu gonna do?"

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...m_supporters_dc

 

"I don't know why they are trying Saddam. He is guilty of nothing," said Ahmed Abdallah, a student from Baghdad's Sunni Muslim Adhamiya district, once favored by Saddam.

 

 

"If it were up to me, I would bring him back as president today, not tomorrow."

 

(..)

 

"He was a president, an Arab leader. I feel all Arabs are humiliated when I see him as a prisoner like this, no matter what he did," said Faleh Jasem, a driver who was watching the first footage of Saddam facing an Iraqi judge.

 

 

"I would feel so hurt if they executed him, because he took a heroic position. He stood up to America and that makes him a real man in my eyes."

 

(..)

 

"Saddam was our president and we were happy with him so who are these infidels to take him away?" said Hana Majid, whose eldest son lost his job as a senior officer when the United States dissolved the army after last year's war.

 

 

"All those people in mass graves were just rabble who deserved everything they got."

 

(..)

 

"The Americans are punishing Saddam for standing up to them," said Mohammed al-Sammaraei, who runs a music shop in Adhamiya, where pictures of the former ruler still take pride of place in some living rooms.

 

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=33312

 

The watchers unleashed a barrage of abuse. "Look -- the pimp is speaking," said janitor Muhammad Ali, one of the Shi'ite majority that was oppressed under the former President, using one of the harshest Iraqi insults.

 

"I heard he used to eat a whole deer during every meal and now he looks much thinner," he added with a smile. Ali comes from Hilla, where several mass graves have been unearthed.

 

(..)

 

Arkan Hinmis looked closely and noticed that Saddam was not wearing handcuffs and was sitting in a clean courtroom, unlike the grim chambers that ordered summary executions during his rule.

 

"This is no good. Why are his hands free? The court is nice. He looks comfortable. They call this punishment of a dictator?" the unemployed Iraqi asked. For these men, it was a chance to release years of pent-up anger and frustration. But even seeing Saddam in the dock was not enough to make them forget past brutalities.

 

"Saddam had many palaces while his people were starving. But I hesitate to really speak because he still has agents," said Mustafa, who declined to give his full name.

 

(..)

 

"Saddam is a coward. He can't even defend himself after pretending he was a great leader for all those years," said 52-year-old merchant Riad Mohammed.

 

"Executing him won't give back what Iraqis lost over the years. What we need now is electricity. I only hope this trial is not designed to deflect attention away from our problems."

 

I'd say the situation might be a bit polarized over there. But, they'll nail him on at least one of the following charges.

 

The list of charges read today include:

 

Killing of religious figures in 1974

 

Killing of a Kurdish clan in 1983

 

Killing political figures during his reign

 

The 1986-1988 Anfal campaign against the Kurds in northern Iraq

 

Gassing the Kurds in the northern Iraqi town of Halabja in 1988

 

The suppression of the 1991 uprisings by Kurds and Shiites

 

The 1990 invasion of Kuwait

 

And here's some of the "quoteable" Saddam:

 

ON WHETHER HE CAN AFFORD A LAWYER:

''According to the Americans, I have millions of dollars in Geneva, so I should be able to afford one.''

 

ON THE OCCUPATION OF KUWAIT:

''How could Saddam be tried over a Kuwait that said it will reduce Iraqi women to 10-dinar prostitutes? He defended Iraq's honor and revived its historical rights over those dogs.''

 

One more thing I noticed: Saddam left "al-Tikriti" off of his name.

 

But, it'll be the trial of the century for Iraq, definately

[NoCalMike 0]

It is foolish for any of us to expect that America will recieve any unedited footage of the trial. It is highly likely that Saddam will start spilling history between our countries, that the government doesn't really want to be let out to the general public. Needless to say, no one would believe it coming from Saddam's mouth anyway, however it would add more fuel to the conspiracy theory fire, and it will once again raise questions our government doesn't want us asking.....Needless to say, Saddam is GUILTY of all the charges and deserves a bullet to the head, REGARDLESS of our past interaction....It is really two seperate issues.......

[Guest Hero to all Children]

I am uncomfortably agreeing with NoCal here.

Saddam Hussein will pull what Klaus Barbie's lawyer and Slobodan Milosevic did infront of court. He's fucked, he knows he's fucked and by god he's going to abuse the fact that people are forced to listen to him one last time.

Like Barbie's lawyer made the French resistance look ugly (which it was in the end, a terrorist insurgant force. On the side of good according to history but yeah, same thing), like Milosevic pounded the US and the UN in court; that's how Saddam will try to have a go at the US.

 

He's going down but he'll be damned if he can't at least take a lot of reputations with him.

 

 

Sure, a lot of people simply won't believe him because they can smell just how vindictive he feels. But it'll fuel the fires of the conspiracy nuts and anti-establishment fanatics. And that'll be his legacy.

[NoCalMike 0]

I am uncomfortably agreeing with NoCal here.

Saddam Hussein will pull what Klaus Barbie's lawyer and Slobodan Milosevic did infront of court. He's fucked, he knows he's fucked and by god he's going to abuse the fact that people are forced to listen to him one last time.

Like Barbie's lawyer made the French resistance look ugly (which it was in the end, a terrorist insurgant force. On the side of good according to history but yeah, same thing), like Milosevic pounded the US and the UN in court; that's how Saddam will try to have a go at the US.

 

He's going down but he'll be damned if he can't at least take a lot of reputations with him.

 

 

Sure, a lot of people simply won't believe him because they can smell just how vindictive he feels. But it'll fuel the fires of the conspiracy nuts and anti-establishment fanatics. And that'll be his legacy.

well not just the "conspiracy nuts" but just people in general seeking the truth. I mean it is probably accurate to say that anything Saddam spews during this long trial, won't be fully examined/investigated for another 5-10 years anyway, so even attemting to debate what he says the minute he says it, will be pretty useless. Not only that, but a lot about the USA/IRAQ relationship has already been documented and written about in various books, however once SADDAM HIMSELF SAYS IT, the right-wing(especially right wing radio) is going to take that as a chance to say, "looky loooky everyone, Saddam the the liberals are saying the same thing, THEY ARE ALL TERRORISTS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" You know that is coming soon.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Did we ever find any of Saddam's body doubles?

[Guest Hero to all Children]

They all went down into the spiderhole with him. What do you think did he live off anyways?

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

So, he ate his bodydoubles. Interesting.

[Vyce 0]

I'm not THAT bad am I?!

You're getting very close.

 

I'll chill..perhaps I think too much about these things.

 

Too much?

 

''How could Saddam be tried over a Kuwait that said it will reduce Iraqi women to 10-dinar prostitutes? He defended Iraq's honor and revived its historical rights over those dogs.''

 

Is Saddam talking in the third person now?

[Guest MikeSC]

I am uncomfortably agreeing with NoCal here.

Saddam Hussein will pull what Klaus Barbie's lawyer and Slobodan Milosevic did infront of court. He's fucked, he knows he's fucked and by god he's going to abuse the fact that people are forced to listen to him one last time.

Like Barbie's lawyer made the French resistance look ugly (which it was in the end, a terrorist insurgant force. On the side of good according to history but yeah, same thing), like Milosevic pounded the US and the UN in court; that's how Saddam will try to have a go at the US.

 

He's going down but he'll be damned if he can't at least take a lot of reputations with him.

 

 

Sure, a lot of people simply won't believe him because they can smell just how vindictive he feels. But it'll fuel the fires of the conspiracy nuts and anti-establishment fanatics. And that'll be his legacy.

well not just the "conspiracy nuts" but just people in general seeking the truth. I mean it is probably accurate to say that anything Saddam spews during this long trial, won't be fully examined/investigated for another 5-10 years anyway, so even attemting to debate what he says the minute he says it, will be pretty useless. Not only that, but a lot about the USA/IRAQ relationship has already been documented and written about in various books, however once SADDAM HIMSELF SAYS IT, the right-wing(especially right wing radio) is going to take that as a chance to say, "looky loooky everyone, Saddam the the liberals are saying the same thing, THEY ARE ALL TERRORISTS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" You know that is coming soon.

You keep ignoring that AMERICA was the country that STOPPED arming him YEARS earlier. France and the US had tons of heat with one another because the US wanted France to stop selling weapon systems to Iraq, but France refused as it made them a killing.

-=Mike

[Highland 0]

I'll side with NoCalMike on this one.

[Guest Nanks]

INXS what possible use would you get out of a live broadcast of the trial??? Do you speak Arabic?? I doubt it. Could you really trust the translator to be accurately translating or could he be reading off a script the EVIL~ US Govt has given him. Furthermore, no court proceedings anywhere, ever have been broadcast live regardless of who was involved, why do you only have a problem now all of a sudden??

[Precious Roy 0]

Furthermore, no court proceedings anywhere, ever have been broadcast live regardless of who was involved

That's not true.

[Vanhalen 0]

Heres some of the front pages in the papers about the trial