Bret Hart responds to Ric Flair's comments

[Guest The Ultimate Fantasy]

Hey wasn't the fans chanting "wooo" the result of ECW and Shane Douglas?

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Flair should stop wrestling cause he is tarnishing his reputation. It's alot easier to see his fomula when he was wrestling the last two nights. I am more of a Bret mark than a Flair mark because I grew up on WWF. I hate the Flair Flip and Flair Flop. And why does he dance when he puts on the Figure Four?

[Guest Anticrombie]

One other thing I feel like complaining about in this article:

 

Ric has never been able to do

anything but his one routine match, which consists of cartoon high spots

borrowed from Jackie Fargo and midget wrestlers, along with an assortment of tired

old ripped off Buddy Rogers high spots. My dad always called Flair a

“routine man” - because he did the exact same routine every night, every where,

and was forever stuck with it.

 

Kind of inappropriate for a guy who phoned in so many matches that he wound up spurring the catchphrase "five moves of doom" to complain about something like that.

 

Keep in mind that I wasn't watching wrestling during all but the most recent chapter of Flair's career, and I missed Bret's career entirely, and I even missed Montreal having started watching only in 99, so I don't really have any nostalgic favoritism here.

But Bret brought that up because Flair criticized Bret for being predictable in his finish.

 

So isn't it kind of inappropriate for Flair to criticize Bret, when he did the same match over and over again (although it was entertaining for some).

 

Hey wasn't the fans chanting "wooo" the result of ECW and Shane Douglas?

 

Die You bastard.

 

[Guest The Ultimate Fantasy]

Seriously though, I read that the crowd used it in order to piss off Douglas; you know since he hated Flair so much and that is why the crowd goes WOOOOO.

[Guest Loss]

Ha! Another feather in the cap of Flair -- he was ECW's top heel for several years despite never wrestling there.

[Guest The Ultimate Fantasy]

I think it was more like, he was a way to piss off Shane Douglas. Sort of the WHAT chant.

[Guest JMA]

There's something I'd like to bring up involving Flair and Savage. Flair has gone on record saying that one of the few wrestlers he could NEVER carry was the Ultimate Warrior. However, Savage (thanks to his detailed match planning) was able to do the impossible and carry Warrior to what most people would consider an above average match (some would even go farther than that).

[Guest brethart]

Sorry Flair put no one over. He created stars so he could put himself over them. No one was allowed a long title reign when Flair was about. He would just go, and take the title back. When i watched the Ric Flair dvd i was shocked at how over hyped he was. I was also disgusted at the fact he clammed he was Better than Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Ricky carried his worthless ass in every single match.

 

Rember when Flair was recently complaning about smart fans? I dont think someone who exposed the business like he did has any right complaning about that. Flair did the same contrived spots match after match after match.

 

Ric Flairs comedy spots took away from the match. They broke and ruined any drama that was building up. Could you imagine Beniot doing the peoples elbow, or the worm.

[NoCalMike 0]

Seriously though, I read that the crowd used it in order to piss off Douglas; you know since he hated Flair so much and that is why the crowd goes WOOOOO.

Sort of. The "wooing" at chops didn't catch on in WWE until a couple a few years ago. ECW fans pretty much did it from day 1, and did originally do it to piss of Shane Douglas, but it ended up just catching on for anyone doing the chop.

[Guest PlatinumBoy]

Good read from Bret, two things he said that I disagree with however, is that when HBK humped the Canadaian Flag it made it personal--I can obviously see why that would piss of Bret, but that's like saying a patriotic American wrestler should hate La Resistance or the UnAmericans because of their in ring behavior. Also secondly, Flair could have held Bret down in WCW--but wasn't Flair the first big name to cleanly job to Bret there?

[King Cucaracha 0]

And why does he dance when he puts on the Figure Four?

Because he's Ric Flair. Plus it pops the crowd.

 

Oh, and nice to see an impartial view from the guy with "brethart" as his username.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I missed but one match - and that was due to a

canceled flight. Again, I don’t think there is anyone who worked that schedule

who can truthfully make that claim.

 

Didn't Bret miss the show the night after Dino Bravo cracked his sternum on the guardrail?

He missed several weeks if I am mistaken.

Bret was referring to missing shows he was booked in. He's not going to be booked in matches while he's injured so that doesn't count.

[Guest Loss]

Sorry Flair put no one over. He created stars so he could put himself over them. No one was allowed a long title reign when Flair was about. He would just go, and take the title back. When i watched the Ric Flair dvd i was shocked at how over hyped he was. I was also disgusted at the fact he clammed he was Better than Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Ricky carried his worthless ass in every single match.

 

Rember when Flair was recently complaning about smart fans? I dont think someone who exposed the business like he did has any right complaning about that. Flair did the same contrived spots match after match after match.

 

Ric Flairs comedy spots took away from the match. They broke and ruined any drama that was building up. Could you imagine Beniot doing the peoples elbow, or the worm.

I won't argue with your criticisms of Flair as a worker, but the reason he was the world champion was because he was the most charismatic guy in the company, the best worker and the biggest draw. Had someone indicated that they could surpass him, only to not get the opportunity to do so, I think that would be valid.

 

Arguing Flair's skills and his political leanings are two different issues. Completely.

[Guest brethart]

I think Bret can be a bit of a whiner and has a big ego, but apart from that he seems like a decent person. I trust him over Flair any day. Foley was a good fast paced brawler before he was injured. Therefore he was a good worker. Spike Duddly could say what Bret just said, and it wouldnt make it any less true. Ric Flair is a comedy wrestler who got over pushed to the world title.

[Guest Loss]

That's a gross overstatement. He was not a comedy wrestler, even if there were comic elements to his style. He was capable of being serious and wrestling very serious matches. In fact, he was serious more than he wasn't.

[Guest brethart]

Sorry Flair put no one over. He created stars so he could put himself over them. No one was allowed a long title reign when Flair was about. He would just go, and take the title back. When i watched the Ric Flair dvd i was shocked at how over hyped he was. I was also disgusted at the fact he clammed he was Better than Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Ricky carried his worthless ass in every single match.

 

Rember when Flair was recently complaning about smart fans? I dont think someone who exposed the business like he did has any right complaning about that. Flair did the same contrived spots match after match after match.

 

Ric Flairs comedy spots took away from the match. They broke and ruined any drama that was building up. Could you imagine Beniot doing the peoples elbow, or the worm.

I won't argue with your criticisms of Flair as a worker, but the reason he was the world champion was because he was the most charismatic guy in the company, the best worker and the biggest draw. Had someone indicated that they could surpass him, only to not get the opportunity to do so, I think that would be valid.

 

Arguing Flair's skills and his political leanings are two different issues. Completely.

Yeah Flair was such a amazing draw. Thats why the NWA early WCW was kicking BUTT in the ratings war. That is why Vince kept him around for years after he came to the WWF. OPPS, my mistake. I see nothing but empty arena when Flair pefroms

 

Flair overstayed his welcome when the focus should've been on Sting. Also he is a lying son of a bitch. Rember the last Nitro? Flair goes on about how great WCW is. Then on his DVD he bashes WCW. I cant take anyone who acts like that at there word.

 

Also i am pissed off, and bitter Funk submitted to one figgure four leg lock. I mean the move no one tapped too, and Funk submitted.

[Guest brethart]

That's a gross overstatement. He was not a comedy wrestler, even if there were comic elements to his style. He was capable of being serious and wrestling very serious matches. In fact, he was serious more than he wasn't.

Flairs bumps would ruin the drama of the match though. I mean i dont want to see Beniot work on the shoulder for the crossface one minute, then do the worm the next. Flair goes on about being the greatest heel ever. Bullshit a heel is meant to be hated.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Yeah Flair was such a amazing draw. Thats why the NWA early WCW was kicking BUTT in the ratings war.

Are you seriously kidding me? When Flair was in his prime he was a totally capable draw. He was a big part of keeping the NWA afloat after Vince started killing the territories. Flair's drawing power was killed by the fact that he worked WAY too long into his career. Otherwise, you saying that Flair wasn't a draw is far from justified.......

[Guest Loss]

How many Flair matches have you seen? If you're talking about present-day Flair, I'd totally agree, but his whole character was that he was the best, he was obsessed with proving it, with partying hard and drinking and screwing women every step of the way and living the life of a champion. It was more flamboyant than Bret, but it wasn't any less serious.

 

His bumps were sometimes overly theatrical, and he repeated them too much. I agree on that. But Flair was very hated in his heyday because he typically found a way, even when the audience knew he was outclassed, to hang on to his title.

 

The difference between that and HHH is that when HHH wins, he wins because he deserves to win and because he's the better man. Most of Flair's victories were based on luck. It worked before cable, but when he could be seen nationally, and Hogan was pinning everyone cleanly who worked for the competition, it made him and the NWA look second rate.

[Guest Loss]

It was time for a Flair babyface turn in 1987 or so, especially after they lost Magnum, but he would have upstaged Dusty so it never happened. The fans were cheering him in most of the bigger markets where they were trying to expand by that point. Had they done that, his drawing power probably wouldn't have eroded so much around this time.

 

Case in point -- when he was turned babyface in 1989 and feuded with Terry Funk, they drew money and held a record for the most watched wrestling match ever when they wrestled at Clash IX, a record that wouldn't be broken until the Attitude era.

[Guest Anticrombie]

Dude, you're not being fair to Flair (man that sounds funny). In order to best measure Flair's career you have to look at his 80s stuff. You can't blame Flair For early WCW not kicking BUTT, that is the fault of the folks above Flair, and Vince being a much better businessman.

 

Flairs bumps would ruin the drama of the match though. I mean i dont want to see Beniot work on the shoulder for the crossface one minute, then do the worm the next. Flair goes on about being the greatest heel ever. Bullshit a heel is meant to be hated.

 

I think it's impossible for people to hate Flair in this day, he is too beloved by everyone.

[Guest brethart]

I have seen most of Flairs WWE stuff. I saw his latest DVD. Also i watched WCW as a kid in the early 90s. Also i saw Ric Flair with his saggy man tits in the late 90s. To be honest Flair is nothing speical. Thats just my point of veiw. Working the leg a tiny bit, poking the eyes low blows begging off going over the top rope do not make a match. Oh yeah he threw in the odd suplex and headlock.

 

Flair can be amusing, but no way in hell can he be considered the best wrestler ever.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

anti- Obviously you don't pay very close attention because this thread is proof positive that people can and do hate Ric Flair in this day and age.

[Guest Anticrombie]

I meant on TV by the people in the crowd. The old fans don't hate Flair, and the new fans view Flair as a comedy act and unentertaining (well if guys like brethart make up the new fans)

[CanadianChris 0]

I have seen most of Flairs WWE stuff. I saw his latest DVD. Also i watched WCW as a kid in the early 90s. Also i saw Ric Flair with his saggy man tits in the late 90s. To be honest Flair is nothing speical. Thats just my point of veiw. Working the leg a tiny bit, poking the eyes low blows begging off going over the top rope do not make a match. Oh yeah he threw in the odd suplex and headlock.

 

Flair can be amusing, but no way in hell can he be considered the best wrestler ever.

1. No trolling.

[Guest Loss]

Flair's prime ended with the end of the Funk feud. His work in the 1990s was much more formulaic, and by the end of the decade, he was way past his prime. If you're wanting to compare him to Bret Hart's prime, which I'd call 1992-1997, 1983-1989 is the best period to watch to judge his work. I definitely agree that Flair has severely hurt his legacy by continuing on so long, because so many fans see him as a crazy old guy who likes to make noises and flail around. He's pretty much a self parody at this point and has been for over a decade now.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Again...people say Flair wasn't a draw, yet back in the mid to late 80's he was the guy people would go to shows to see. He drew plenty of money and fans in relation to the fanbase the NWA had at the time.

[Guest brethart]

Dude, you're not being fair to Flair (man that sounds funny). In order to best measure Flair's career you have to look at his 80s stuff. You can't blame Flair For early WCW not kicking BUTT, that is the fault of the folks above Flair, and Vince being a much better businessman.

 

Flairs bumps would ruin the drama of the match though. I mean i dont want to see Beniot work on the shoulder for the crossface one minute, then do the worm the next. Flair goes on about being the greatest heel ever. Bullshit a heel is meant to be hated.

 

I think it's impossible for people to hate Flair in this day, he is too beloved by everyone.

When i saw the Flair DVD this is the inpression i got.

 

Harley race isa better worker than Flair.

 

Flair does the same thing every match.

 

Flairs moves are low inpact even by 80s standards.

 

Ricky the Dragon Steamboat is in a other league compared to Flair. Steamboat deserved a longer title reign. (How he had the nerve to say he was better than Steamboat i will never understand.)

 

Flair made all his babyface opponents look stupid.

 

The fans seemed to love Flair a lot even as a heel becuase he acted the clown.

 

Flair chatted crap about Dusty Rhodes being a good wrestler. (This is the same guy who bashes Foley? Even at his unfittest Foley was in better shape than that man titted whale, if you wheeel)

 

Barry Windham is a other wreslter far better than Flair.

 

Flair made Sting look crap.

 

I am not a insider, but wasnt what Flair doing exposing the business by 1980s standards. I mean he did the same contrived match after match, he was worse than Hogan in this regard.

 

Flair would have his legs worked on yet he would still flop about like a rag doll. (He is calling Foley a stunt man? At least Foleys stunts where less fake looking than his.)

 

I could go on, and on. I just personally thing Flair is overhyped.

[geniusMoment 0]

Ric played a clever game of disception in his book when speaking about Foley. He tells the readers how he did not have much power because of Hogan and how he was just trying to keep his spot, much less fighting for Foley. He talks about the booking committee and how no one had much power. What he does not mention is Foleys biggest gripes with Flair occurred before Hogan even came into the promotion. Foleys biggest gripes with Flair came during the fall of 93, after he came back from the stupid capt. Jack angles. Flair was the head of the booking committee during this time period, appointed by Eric Bischoff, due to Ted Turner's love of Flair. Hell, Foley even made mention of the meeting where Turner spoke so highly of Flair.

So what Ric does is a little slight of hand trick. He says I had to worry about Hogan and Savage and my spot. I was just fighting to survive. When by 1994 Foley was already planning to leave due to his lack of a push. He went from being over and a main eventer, who was over as a babyface, to tagging with Max in high school gyms. Ric was not the sole cause of this, Bischoff and Rhodes contributed, but as the head of the booking committee he had the power to make something better for Jack. Ric said he did not have time to worry about Jack, to me that means he is a bad booker. Because it would have taken me 1 second to think of something better for Jack than a tag team with Max against Ice Train.

[Guest Loss]

NWA attendance figures for 1986

 

This isn't complete, obviously, and the NWA did work a lot of small venues, but there are quite a few 10,000+ shows that occured that year, as you'll see.

 

Unfortunately, the '89 page doesn't have any attendance figures, since records weren't kept as stringently then as they are now, and when they were, they were often kayfabed.