Bret Hart responds to Ric Flair's comments

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

So basically you're making excuses for not backing up why Flair drags these matches down or why they don't compare to anything Bret did.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Bret may have wrestled Diesel, but Diesel was no El.

Oh yeah? Could El work so hard that he tore a quad just seconds after getting into the ring? Sure, Nash is a little gimpy now but it's only because he pushes his body to the limits instead of being lazy like El.

 

 

 

They lost so much potential money by not doing that Nash vs El Gigante feud.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Ok, there's a Bret/Steamboat match from 1986 that's available on video. Find it and watch it.

 

Then, find a Flair/Steamboat match, take your pick. Then compare the two.

 

If you want to find other common opponents, there's always Sting, Luger, Hall, Michaels, Austin, Benoit, Misawa, Funk, Vader, Savage, Waltman, Jarrett, Lawler and Hennig, among many others I'm sure.

I am getting a bit annoyed here. What i am saying is all these matches where not that great. Certainly not becuase of Flair. I enjoyed the Steamboat Flair fued, but that was before i saw loads of Flair matches. I dont think i would enjoy rewatching them. I am sure you believe those are 5 star matches in your mind, but i dobut most od them will reach 3 stars.

well, then lets see your list of 5 star matches.....if you don't wanna do that....then stop your arguing NOW.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Ok name me one great match on the Ric Flair DVD that doesnt have Steamboat Or Windham on it?

How about the cage match with Harley Race? I, for one, think that it is one of the best cage matches I've ever seen.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not Super Flair Mark 19904, but I do think that his early work is some of the best I've seen.

[Guest brethart]

So basically you're making excuses for not backing up why Flair drags these matches down or why they don't compare to anything Bret did.

Are you a idiot? I've just explaned what Flair does in every single match countless times.

 

Ok one last time.

 

Flair kills all the drama in his matches, by doing stupid comedy spots. Flip floping over the top rope. Not selling punches properly by floping on his face. His selling in general is awfull. He takes a body slam every match. He gets thrown off the top turn buckle every match. His finisher is really weak, and rarely wins matches. He got himself more over than the babyfaces by being funny.

 

There i made my points so either reply to them, or shut up. Dont clam i am not backing my clams up ok?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Flair kills all the drama in his matches, by doing stupid comedy spots. Flip floping over the top rope. Not selling punches properly by floping on his face. His selling in general is awfull. He takes a body slam every match. He gets thrown off the top turn buckle every match. His finisher is really weak, and rarely wins matches. He got himself more over than the babyfaces by being funny.

 

Examples? Back it up with tidbits from matches... you sound like you're throwing shit against the wall right now. You're not saying what spots were comedy aside from 2, one of which mainly involved Flair running to the other turnbuckle to try and take the opponent by surprise. Why is it comedy? Why was his finisher weak? Give examples of him getting himself more over than the face. How is any of the spots he did every match different than the spots Bret did any match? Come on stop kicking and screaming here please.

[Guest brethart]

Sorry Ric Flair is famous for these spots. I am not debating with you no more your clearly a idiot.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

How is it different that Hart's legsweep, stomp to the mid-section, DDT, middle rope elbow drop every match? He was just as guilty of overusing spots as Flair was. Greg Valetine used the flop after the punches too. I'm probably sure several heels have done it before as well.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Sorry Ric Flair is famous for these spots. I am not debating with you no more your clearly a idiot

 

This is quite possibly the greatest argument in the history of TSM.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Are you a idiot? I've just explaned what Flair does in every single match countless times.

 

Ok one last time.

 

Flair kills all the drama in his matches, by doing stupid comedy spots. Flip floping over the top rope. Not selling punches properly by floping on his face. His selling in general is awfull. He takes a body slam every match. He gets thrown off the top turn buckle every match. His finisher is really weak, and rarely wins matches. He got himself more over than the babyfaces by being funny.

 

There i made my points so either reply to them, or shut up. Dont clam i am not backing my clams up ok?

First off, quit flaming people. Flair got himself over by being DIFFERENT. He was over for being such a cocky prick, aka people wanted to see him get his ass kicked. Start using valid points, or don't make any at all.

[Guest Loss]

Good first paragraph. Should be followed, with ...

 

"For example, in Flair v Steamboat at Clash VI, around the 15-minute mark ..." and go from there. You're throwing these things out there without naming specific matches where anything of the sort happened and I want specific examples. It's only at that point that this discussion will get anywhere.

 

As for those other matches, I never said any of them would be *****. You're missing the point. I'm saying that if you want to compare Flair and Bret as workers, pick any common opponent they've had and compare the two matches and say which one was better and why.

 

It's worth noting that Bret has had better matches with many of those wrestlers than Flair ever did, so making your case should be as easy as you want it to be. I'm a fan of both wrestlers. I know who I think was better, and the answer would probably surprise you quite honestly. But I want to know where you've seen Flair do all of the things you've accused him of ... specifically.

 

It's your point to make whenever you're ready.

[jester 0]

They lost so much potential money by not doing that Nash vs El Gigante feud.

That needs to be a Triple Threat match with Mabel.

[BHK 0]

Sorry Ric Flair is famous for these spots. I am not debating with you no more your clearly a idiot.

The first 6 or so pages of this thread were actually some interesting discussion. Then that person showed up.

 

Posts along the lines of "Flair sucks bret rules" aren't really doing anything for the thread, so either back it up or please stop.

 

I like both Flair and Hart. I happen to like Hart more becasue I grew up on 90's WWF. I've seen 80s wrestling, NWA and WWF. I'm not bashing it at all. The Flair/Steambot seires is an awesome series of matches. Survivor Series '96 and Wrestlemania 13 just do more for me. I just find it kind of sad that two great wrestlers have to tear into each other like this.

 

A lot of the people that have posted in the thread are either diehard Flair or Hart fans. There's nothing wrong with enjoying both of them, they're both grat wrestlers. one just happens to be more technical than the other.

[Dangerous A 0]

It's your point to make whenever you're ready.

Don't worry. He won't. If he tries. He'll fail.

[Guest Dazed]

brethart, stop being a jackass and ruining the thread.

 

The first 6 or so pages of this thread were actually some interesting discussion. Then that person showed up.

 

Posts along the lines of "Flair sucks bret rules" aren't really doing anything for the thread, so either back it up or please stop.

 

Yes.

Edited July 14, 2004 by nikjohns

[Guest Loss]

Continuing the somewhat epic nature of this entire discussion, I thought I'd link to a few interesting things:

 

Torch Guest Editorial on Bret-Flair

Buddy Landell weighs in, defends Flair

Da Meltz Does Da Mail

Da Meltz Does Da Mail, Part II

 

There's also a great discussion going on at tOA about all of this.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

How is it different that Hart's legsweep, stomp to the mid-section, DDT, middle rope elbow drop every match? He was just as guilty of overusing spots as Flair was. Greg Valetine used the flop after the punches too. I'm probably sure several heels have done it before as well.

I think the deal is that Bret's repetition seem more natural and seem like something a wrestler who had favorite moves would do. Where as Flair's seemed really contrived and silly, but they were over with the crowd.

[Guest Anticrombie]

No, no, no for the love of god let him go on...it's sad, but this clown is the one ray of sunshine in my life.

 

I fell off my chair while I was laughing my ass off

 

Sorry Ric Flair is famous for these spots. I am not debating with you no more your clearly a idiot.

 

OK read this and now envision this guy saying it...

 

[BHK 0]

Thanks for the links Loss.

[Gert T 0]

I think the most interesting part of the Bret-Flair taking shots at each other is that both bring up so many points about what happens when the other was in a different fed. Were they together for what, about three years total?

 

And yes, this thread is interesting on many varying levels.

[Promoter 0]

set an all-time TV ratings record in 1988 headlining the first Clash against Sting, broke his own record at Clash IX in a match that was the most watched wrestling match in US history for ten years against Terry Funk,

Loss, I thought Hogan vs. Andre from NBC had the most viewers of all-time at over 33 million people and a 15.1 rating?

[Guest bigm350]

Damn, this thread is funny as hell. brethart is making a complete ass of himself by not backing up his claim that Flair sucks. Its funny he calls someone an idiot yet spells "claim", "clam".

[pochorenella 0]

Man, those WON liks that Loss gave are just great! Meltzer sounds fairly impartial, although he does tend to lean towards Bret's side a little. To point out:

 

- Bret has said on the radio show that Flair was so good he's not human. Now he says he can't work?

 

- Flair never said Savage or Hart can't work. He said both are VERY GOOD, but not great. And that Shawn Michaels is better. Is "very good but not great" really that awful a thing to say?

 

- He agrees Flair had no business stating the Owen/Montreal stuff.

 

- He said Hart told him he agreed to put HBK over not in Montreal but in a Four-way in December. First time I ever heard this.

 

Meltzer says that in next week's WON he'll tell what he feels is Bret's best carrying job, something Flair has never reached doing. Any ideas what it can be?

[Guest bigm350]

Wow, and I always thought that Meltzer was a huge Flair mark.

[Promoter 0]

pochonorella, the carry job most likely would be his match against Davey Boy Smith in England.

[BHK 0]

- He said Hart told him he agreed to put HBK over not in Montreal but in a Four-way in December. First time I ever heard this.

If that's the first time you've heard that, you might want ot check this out:

 

http://www.brethart.com/montreal/facts.asp

 

 

As far as Bret being obsessed with the above goes, from what I personally know as just a Smark, not truly knowing intricate backstage workings, the only thing that comes to mind that's nearly as ugly is the Sid/Arn stabbing incident, which I've heard was quite the site to see.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

It has to be Tom Magee.

 

Meltzer once said it was the most fantastic carry job anyone had ever seen... enough that Vince wanted to the belt on him.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Landel gave exclusive comments to 1Wrestling.com about the controversy and leaves no doubt as to who he thinks is the best.

 

"I've wrestled them both and if my thoughts mean anything, here goes! Ric Flair is the single greatest wrestler (bar none) that has ever been in our business. You see Flair arriving, you know here comes the champ. See him in the airport, here comes the champ. In the ring you get your money's worth - if you could ever find a seat! To the few, including myself, who have had the pleasure of wrestling the world champ, it was a tough long night ahead of you and you'd better be in shape. Bret was decent but a robot in my opinion. To someone who wrestled them both there was no comparison. Ric Flair has earned the right to say what ever the hell he wants to say."

 

 

He knows more about it than we do.

 

Bret= I Robot

[Promoter 0]

Benoit has been called a robot too

 

Landel is a great legend who has put on better matches than both Flair and Hart. He knows what he's talking about. I think Vince wanted to make him wwf champion at one time as well.

[BHK 0]

Landel's comments mean nothing. "Bret is a robot." Ok, how? why? when? In his selling? in his style? in the way he tells a story in the ring, the way he moves? what? That statement by itself doesn't mean anything. there's nothing that comes after it that's of any value.