Benoit vs HHH Ironman match thread

[Guest wildpegasus]

I thought it'd be a good idea to have a Benoit vs HHH ironman match thread and get people discussing one of the most important Raw matches of the year. If they have ironman matches on the house shows this week feel free to discuss them as well if you were fortunate enough to witness them. Who's going to win? What will the final score be? How good a match will it be? Will it go into overtime? Will Eugune interfere in the deciding fall? Will Edge interfere? What will be the match at Summerslam that can possably top this stipulation wise? Why is the match going on in the first hour instead of the second hour? Why are they not saving the ironman match for Summerslam? How will Benoit's concussion come into play?

 

After the match is over we can talk about how good or bad we thought it was and get everyone praising or complaining about what happened in the ultimate endurance test for Benoit and HHH. I guess post match reaction are the words I'm looking for here.

 

 

 

I'll start some talk here. It's obvious that HHH loves his long matches because I imagine it was him who brought this idea up since he loves the long distance tests so much.

 

The concussion is a good idea because it makes the face Benoit here have a bigger struggle to climb next Monday. He also doesn't have to worry about selling a limb or leg for 60 minutes straight which would be an awful difficult task.The concusion also sets up a great reason for HHH to use his punches and his sleeper which are some of his key moves. It'll be intersting to see if HHH goes back to working the sternum as well.

 

A lot of this match is going to rely on HHH. He is the bad guy and he'll be responsable for not only controlling a good portion of the match but will probably have to do long beat down segments on Benoit where it'll be necessary to keep things varied and interesting. HHH doesn't use too much variety in his offence (and the WWE's not too fond of offencive variety anyway) so it'll be interesting to see if he brings some new stuff to the table here. Did he do so in his Ironman match against the Rock? For certain reasons I only managed to see half of that match.

 

Commercial breaks are going to be interesting here. I've noticed that matches have got to be wrestled now for commercial breaks. Take a look at the latest Benoit vs Michaels match from Raw for an example. Is there going to be some kind of interesting occurance in a match right before a commercial break that will keep us tuned in until they come back or will Benoit and HHH wrestle not worrying about the breaks? Maybe the commentators will just have to sell us on something before a break. It'll be intriguing to see what happens here

 

I'm also curious on what Benoit will bring to the table this match as well. Will he dip down a little further into his bag of tricks like he started to against Michaels?(well, bumping tricks anyway) It'll be interesting to see how long Benoit's beatdown segments on HHH will go on. Usually in a WWE match a face will kick BUTT in the beginning until the heel takes over. Than the good guy comes back with some offence until the bad guys gets some kind of offence in and than we have a finishing segment. Good guys don't usually have long beatdown periods of the heel but will Benoit and HHH tease mini Benoit comebacks (until he gets a signifigant one) for a good part of 60 minutes or will Benoit have multiple comebacks where he's in control for a good amount of time? If Benoit has a long extended control segment at the beginning of the match before HHH takes over will the fans stick with it? As wrestlers do you do that? Bret and Owen did it effectively in their Ironman so I'm curious on to how Benoit and HHH are going to incorporate falls, selling, the fans and perhaps overtime in this while keeping solid physcology intact. It's not an easy job to do. There are a lot of variables here.

[JN News 0]

It's gonna be 60 minutes of Benoit getting squashed.

 

 

 

And since when did Bret & Owen have an Ironman match.

[Guest wildpegasus]

It's gonna be 60 minutes of Benoit getting squashed.

 

 

 

And since when did Bret & Owen have an Ironman match.

Yeah they had a handheld Ironman match. I watched it just last week. If you want to know where to get it I'll send you a private message.

[NoCalMike 0]

the first thing that comes to mind is, "please gawd NOOOOOOOOO" The only thing worse then Triple H doing the squash, is having him lay all over the ring for a good 25 mins.

[Promoter 0]

So what would be the best scenario? Triple H goes over, but loses the strap back to Benoit in Toronto? Benoit goes over and the wwe uses this match to sell his DVD release? Triple H loses again and a tease of Evolution breaking up because Eugene returns next week to cost Triple H the title? HBK can play the same role. These scenarios are what I'm guessing will mostly happen.

[Guest Eugene`]

I read somewhere on the Internet tonight (alright it was Keith's Raw rant) that Pittsburgh has one of the worst wrestling crowds around. It will be interesting to see how they sit through a 60 minute match.

[Guest Trivia247]

At the closing moments of the match when the score is tied Eugene will come out and summon up the wrestling stylins of Balls Mahoney and chairshot HHH and blade him to the point where the Maryland Atheletic board makes a run in and carts him away kicking and screaming

[Promoter 0]

Maybe hometown hero Kurt Angle shows up all angry that Triple H wants to top the only ironman match on free television for the wwe. I mean Bischoff did attack smackdown's title match. I say he shows up as Conquistador #2 That should get a reaction out in Pittsburgh.

[Guest Anglesault]

HHH can't lose again. He can't lose to the same guy in four huge matches without looking like a total chump.

[Guest Staravenger]

HHH/Rock worked a smart, well booked Iron Man Match in 2000, so HHH/Benoit can probably be 4x better considering how much Rock sucks compared to Benoit. I'll repeat what I said in the other thread: Have commercial breaks during rest periods between pinfalls/submissions whatever, with the clock stopped, which would mean it would take about an hour 15 minutes.

[Tawren 0]

HHH can't lose again. He can't lose to the same guy in four huge matches without looking like a total chump.

He's 0 for 3 and looks nothing like the chump, really. Whether or not he wins/loses doesn't matter, Raw is and always will be the HHH show. He could lose to random jobbers every match for the next year, yet he would still be the most seen man on the show in addition to tons of long promos and being treated as the star even if he is on a losing streak.

[Australian Pride 0]

I would like to see a an early cross face tap out to put Benoit up 1-0. this way it would keep the crowd into every submission attempt he goes for during the remainder of the match.

 

After that HHH will likely surge ahead with a couple of falls from moves to the head (DDT, pedigree) to play up the concussion.

 

Evolution will probably cost HHH another fall by DQ while he is in the sharpshooter, but Benoit will still be behind by at least one fall.

 

The end of the match will see HHH hold on while locked in either the sharpshooter or crossface to pick up the title. Alternate scenario is that he taps with 5 seconds left which evens up the score and then we get a Hart/Michaels type sudden death overtime in which HHH hits the pedigree for the final pin.

[Guest JMA]

It seems to me that this match will be a way for Triple H to get the title back without Benoit losing in Canada. This brings up an interesting point: If Benoit loses the title to Hunter, will Edge get the main event slot at SummerSlam? It is his hometown.

 

Anyway, the Ironman match should be good. I think Benoit and Hunter mesh well together.

[Guest Cochise]

It could of course be that Eugene comes out, the crowd goes apeshit then he blasts Benoit with a chair while the ref is down costs him the title then joins Evo, all this stuff part of HHH's plan, Eugene never actually a tard, this just a big plan by Uncle Eric. Then he changes to Nick Dinsmore with mega heel heat and fueds with Regal.

[Guest Trivia247]

Usually in Iron Men Matches the wrestlers really bust out their Moveset Resume throwing stuff out there you haven't seen in years...

 

(Hell big headlining WM 30 minute match saw Austin bust out both the Stungun and Million Dollar Dream on the Rock at WM17)

 

I'd love to see Benoit fire of a Dragon Suplex, Powerbombs, Tilt a whirl Backbreaker, The Gourdbuster onto the ropes.

 

and HHH Just astonish us with some Indian Deathlocks that would make Old dead n buried Wahoo McDaniels go " Gee that is a boring ass move."

[Precious Roy 0]

Bold (wishful hope) prediction: The match is going on at 9pm because they will actually go to a TWO HOUR overtime!!!!!! B)

 

Anyway......

 

I haven't been this hyped for a TV match since the Brock-Angle Ironman match and I have VERY high (probably too high) expectations.

 

If Eugene runs in I will be extremely pissed, so by the WWE v. Me laws of booking it's destined to happen

[Precious Roy 0]

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread: Have commercial breaks during rest periods between pinfalls/submissions whatever, with the clock stopped, which would mean it would take about an hour 15 minutes.

 

That's exactly how they should do it. Do two minute rest periods between falls and plan a bunch of shorter than usual breaks with Spike.

[thuganomics 0]

I'm guessing Triple H will drop this one just to move him in to a program with Edge.

 

I'm also expecting it to go in to "overtime" since they probably can get Spike to go for it.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

My prediction for this match sits somewhere in the realm of the match ending in a tie leading to a 5 minute overtime(the tie will be caused by Eugene giving the even fall to Benoit). Benoit wins the match via submission or however he wins it. HHH naturally complains and they have an iron rematch at SS, with HHH coming out on top.

 

The thought about commercials I had earlier was that they may very well lean on Viacom and Spike TV and have the match go commercial free. Barring that, a double commercial break about halfway through the match. Since it's live and a huge free TV match, I don't think they'll make the same mistakes they made with the SD! iron man by formatting the entire thing terribly for their commercial interruptions.

 

My greatest concern about this match is HHH blowing up. He's undoubtedly a big time player, but without the cage gimmick to allow him longer rests between spots, he might start to slow down a lot without that buffer. Hell it could happen to Benoit to but i don't want to think about that because Benoit is my hero and all that.

 

I think we can all agree that there will be some extended 'WWE ground work' involved in this match so we'll just have to see how well it plays out in the realm of the story they are telling and how on their game the two men are.

 

This match could flop or it could be MOTYC, depending on your personal tastes, but both men are gonna show up with their working hats on and they will undoubtedly give it their best. I'm predicting a 'good' match at worst.

[chaosrage 0]

HHH can't lose again. He can't lose to the same guy in four huge matches without looking like a total chump.

I can't believe I'm saying this to you, but Benoit needs to win this. This is the kind of match that can make or break careers. It can either made Benoit look like he was a fluke champion the whole time or make him look just as good or better than HHH. Benoit made Shawn tap in their second match, not HHH, and Eugene hit HHH in the head with a chair in the third one for Benoit to win. So he has two pretty big excuses for those two. Besides, HHH already won one ironman. He doesn't deserve two. HHH can we the title at Summerslam if he needs it so bad.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

It's gonna be 60 minutes of Benoit getting squashed.

 

 

 

And since when did Bret & Owen have an Ironman match.

Christ. whine a little more.

 

if it goes to OT look for Benoit to win with the SHarpshooter.

 

I think Benoit is going to win but it'll be a clusterfuckish ending. I see this leading to Evolution kicking HHH out and maybe bringing edge in.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

I see this leading to Evolution kicking HHH out and maybe bringing edge in.

 

I hope you don't mean he'll be kicked out during this same ep of RAW, because that would be storyling suicide. A change that big in the balance of power on Raw would absolutely have to happen at one of the large PPV's. Of course that brings a thought into my head about a huge swerve on everyone with HHH being 'kicked out' for being a choker and then he re-turns heel by rejoining them after a rematch finished with Evolution schemes.

 

But anyway, I'm running off with the topic here.

[Scroby 0]

I'm guessing one of two finishes could happen.

 

Beniot and HHH are drawed till the very last minute of the match. During that last minute Beniot puts the crossface or sharpshooter and in the last second HHH can't hold on anymore and taps.

 

They go to a draw and Bischoff makes another match for Summerslam and makes the title vacant.

[megaadvice 0]

1 thing is for certain they book Iron man matches for title changes. Every one so far has had one. It will be very stupid if they have it and the title does not change hands or at least go vacant.

 

You have got to think of it this way, why would the WWE book an iron man match just before summerslam if the main event 4 summerslam will be Benoit vs Trips with benoit with the title. It does not make sence.

 

As for the match itself, should be good, i hope you dont all expect them to go full throtal for 60 mins cause they wont. I really hope HHH takes a lot and rewatches his iron man with the Rock because it was pure class, 3 or 4 times better than the other two iron man matches. If HHH keeps it different and varied like the Rock match it should be good. If not it will go down the same road as HBK vs Bret.

[chaosrage 0]

You have got to think of it this way, why would the WWE book an iron man match just before summerslam if the main event 4 summerslam will be Benoit vs Trips with benoit with the title. It does not make sence.

Maybe the ME of summerslam won't be Trips vs Benoit. Seems more like they're building to Eugene vs HHH. I don't know what Benoit would do though. Maybe defend against Orton?

 

As for the match itself, should be good, i hope you dont all expect them to go full throtal for 60 mins cause they wont. I really hope HHH takes a lot and rewatches his iron man with the Rock because it was pure class, 3 or 4 times better than the other two iron man matches. If HHH keeps it different and varied like the Rock match it should be good. If not it will go down the same road as HBK vs Bret.

 

I think HBK/Bret is infinitely better than HHH/Rock, so I hope they go down that road.

[Guest Dazed]

I'm surprised they are giving this away for free, with the 6,000 Raw PPVs that are on in these few months.

[chaosrage 0]

Yep, doesn't really make any sense. There was just a PPV with HHH/Benoit as the ME. Why didn't they make that an ironman?

[BHK 0]

As I said in the Raw thread, I'll be at next week's Raw.

 

We all know that a motivated Triple H and Benoit can go, so if this doesn't hit at least ****, I'm going to be disappointed. I'm going to think about taking a handheld to get the full uncut hour, also.

 

As far as Pittsburgh being one of the wrose crowds, I wouldn't say so. Of course, I haven't been to a live event since pre-brand split. I was at KOTR 98 though, and it was one of the loudest reactions I've ever seen when Foley fell off the cell.

 

and JN_News, if you're not aware of the Hart/Hart Ironman I'm guessing you're not aware of the Flair/Bret one either?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I'll actually be going next week as my friend hooked it up with actually getting a luxury box(his girlfriend's job actually hooked it up), and I was pumped to see that they were doing the ironman. It could be incredibly bad(if Trips can't carry the match as Benoit is "injured"), but in all honesty I would rather attend something like this than just going to "just another RAW". But hopefully they can pull out a decent match and maybe ease the cringe that most of us get when they announce an ironman match...........I am REALLY worried what the rest of the show is gonna look like.......

[redbaron29 0]

I will also be in attendance for this raw. It should be interesting to see how the full 60 turn out w/o commecial breaks.

 

Also, because this is the opener, it should be interesting on how it builds toward the second hour. I'm sure they will manage to fuck up all the crowd heat they get from the match with more of the dumbass diva search.

 

Anyways, I think both men should be able to put on a good match.