razazteca Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Its better than HHH wants to make Orton champion at the next PPV love-fest.
Guest bigm350 Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 I'm just ready for the next burst of Orton hate if he beats Benoit at SSlam.
Scroby Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Kane is also considered one. the WWE website interviewed him about it but that was it.
Australian Pride Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Its better than HHH wants to make Orton champion at the next PPV love-fest. Actually, I want Orton to win at SS. Not because i'm any great fan of his, but i like the fact that it would go against the grain. Since it's inception the Raw title has gone HHH/HBK/HHH/Goldberg/HHH/Benoit, so the logical step is for HHH to win again. I like the fact they are moving away from that with Kane and now Randy Orton challenging for the belt, and if Orton wins then at least it's something different. Also, when he was IC champ Orton was getting more screen time than Benoit so I would assume the World Title would be more visible around his waist. Yes, he's in this position because he's HHH's boy, and it's leading to a HHH/RO match (likely at Mania 21), but at least the champ will be again be one of the main talking points on Raw each week.
Slickster Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Why not use a ranking system based on points to determine who's a 'greater' champion? Here is my ranking system: WWE/WCW/ECW Titles: WCW or WWE - 5 IC, US, ECW TV - 4 Tag (RAW or SD!) - 4 Euro or TV- 3 ECW, ECW Tag - 3 L-H/Cruiserweight - 2 Hardcore - 1 WWE/WCW Special Events: Royal Rumble or KOTR - 4 World War 3 or Battlebowl- 3 -Now, you can all see where this could rank Steve Blackman or Raven over Edge or Jericho, so there ARE limits on how many times you can 'count' a title in this equation (to reflect the shorter title reigns of today). WCW, WWE, ECW titles - unlimited (a World reign is a World reign) IC, US, ECW TV - 3 times max Euro or TV - 3 times max WWE/WCW/ECW Tag - 4 times max L-H/Cruiser: 3 times max Hardcore - 5 times max ---------------------------- Whaddya think? IMO this could clearly settle who a 'better' wrestler is by basing it on title reigns.
Slickster Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 So, using my ranking system, let's see how great Guererro really is... WWE Heavyweight title = 5 WWE United States Title (2x) = 8 WWF Intercontinental title (2x) = 8 WWF European title = 3 WCW Cruiserweight title (2x) = 4 WWE Tag Team titles (2x) = 8 ECW Television title (2x) = 8 Eddie Guererro = 44 Now, let's compare that to Kurt Angle. WWE title (4x) = 20 WCW title = 5 WWE IC = 4 WCW US = 4 WWE Euro = 3 WWE Hardcore = 1 WWE Tag = 4 KOTR (00) = 4 Kurt Angle = 45
Slickster Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 And why not Benoit too, to complete the trifecta.... WCW (2x) = 10 US (2x) = 8 WWE IC (4x) = 12 WCW TV (3x) = 9 WCW Tag (2x) = 8 WWE Tag (2x) = 8 World Tag = 4 L-H = 2 Royal Rumble (04) = 4 Chris Benoit = 65
Guest TigerDriver91 Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 It's all a numbers game now, folks
Slickster Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Well, I figure it's better to have a definitive way to know who's the better champion than to spend 14 pages arguing about Benoit.
Guest TigerDriver91 Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 Well, I figure it's better to have a definitive way to know who's the better champion than to spend 14 pages arguing about Benoit. That's a good point and idea.
Australian Pride Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 I dont even want to know how many points HHH gets under this system. It's a good idea nonetheless.
megaadvice Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 The "grand slam" is people who have been WWF/E/World heavywieght champ/undisputed champ IC champ Tag Champ European champ Thus making the people to have done the grand slam HHH HBK Jericho Eddie Guerrero Kurt Angle And these only missing the European tilte Kane Big Show Austin Benoit Any more??
dubq Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 That's because he never won KOTR or Royal Rumble, which the Grand Slam relies heavily on. Uh, no. A "Grand Slam" champion in WWE terms is someone who had won all four titles [which is what they had at the time the term was coined] - World, IC, Tag Team & European.
dubq Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 The "grand slam" is people who have been WWF/E/World heavywieght champ/undisputed champ IC champ Tag Champ European champ Thus making the people to have done the grand slam HHH HBK Jericho Eddie Guerrero Kurt Angle And these only missing the European tilte Kane Big Show Austin Benoit Any more?? Are you counting the Smackdown Tag Team Titles? Because if you are, you shouldn't be...
Slickster Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 I dont even want to know how many points HHH gets under this system. Triple H: WWE (x5) = 25 WCW (x3) = 15 IC (x5, count 4) = 16 Euro (x2) = 6 WWE Tag = 4 Rumble (02) = 4 KOTR (97) = 4 Triple H = 74
ChrisMWaters Posted July 30, 2004 Report Posted July 30, 2004 I dont even want to know how many points HHH gets under this system. Triple H: WWE (x5) = 25 WCW (x3) = 15 IC (x5, count 4) = 16 Euro (x2) = 6 WWE Tag = 4 Rumble (02) = 4 KOTR (97) = 4 Triple H = 74 That's probably nothing. Let's see Flair's score.
Slickster Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 (NOTE: The NWA Title is worth 5 and the WCW Int'l Title is worth 4. The NWA World Tags are also worth 4. Aside from his NWA reigns, I'll stick to the 'Big 3' titles he's held, including their JCP lineage where applicable. And while I'd usually count all 25 of his known World title reigns, I'll avoid using the Jack Veneno/Victor Jovica phantom reigns. Ric Flair: WWE (2x) = 10 WCW (8x) = 40 NWA (9x) = 45 WCW Int'l (2x) = 8 US (6x) = 24 WWE World Tag (2x) = 8 NWA World Tag (3x) = 12 Rumble (92) = 4 Ric Flair: 151 (...not counting his Mid Atlantic Tag, M-A TV, or NWA Missouri State title reigns...)
Lt. Al Giardello Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 The "grand slam" is people who have been WWF/E/World heavywieght champ/undisputed champ IC champ Tag Champ European champ Thus making the people to have done the grand slam HHH HBK Jericho Eddie Guerrero Kurt Angle And these only missing the European tilte Kane Big Show Austin Benoit Any more?? Are you counting the Smackdown Tag Team Titles? Because if you are, you shouldn't be... Wise-ass.
Lt. Al Giardello Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 Here is Kurt Angle's stats... WWE/WCW Champion - 25 IC/US Champion - 8 SD Tag Team Champion - 4 Euro Champion - 3 Hardcore - 1 KOTR(2000) - 4 His stats are.... 45
The Metal Maniac Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 But he has the distiction to being the first WWE Champion who started out as a Light heavyweight champ... Someone said that about Benoit, but it's not true. Jericho was WCW Cruiserweight champ before he won the Undisputed title. And if you wanna get picky, you can even point out that Jericho can lay claim to being a former WWE Cruiserweght champ, since that belt is really just the WCW one re-named.
Ravenbomb Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 Raven's score (assuming we're only talking ECW/WWE/WCW) ECW World tag titles (x4) = 12 ECW World (x2) = 6 WCW US = 4 WCW Tag Team = 4 WWE hardcore champ (x5) = 5 assuming we can't count WWE and WWF as two different companies, and we're just counting those three companies, total = 31
Lt. Al Giardello Posted July 31, 2004 Report Posted July 31, 2004 Booker T... World Champion - 25 IC/US Champion - 12 Tag Champion - 16 Euro/TV - 9 Hardcore - 2 Total... 64 If they're werent limits here is what his stats would be.. World Championship - 25 IC/US Championship - 12 Tag Championship - 56 Euro/TV - 18 Hardcore - 2 Total... 113 Bret Hart... With Limits World Championship - 35 US/IC Championship - 12 Tag Championship - 12 King Of The Ring - 4(1993) Royal Rumble - 4(1994) Total... 67 Without Limits World Championship - 35 US/IC Championship - 20 Tag Championship - 12 King Of The Ring - 4(1993) Royal Rumble - 4(1994) Total... 75
deancoles Posted August 1, 2004 Report Posted August 1, 2004 Raven's score (assuming we're only talking ECW/WWE/WCW) ECW World tag titles (x4) = 12 ECW World (x2) = 6 WCW US = 4 WCW Tag Team = 4 WWE hardcore champ (x5) = 5 assuming we can't count WWE and WWF as two different companies, and we're just counting those three companies, total = 31 When commentating on heat he said he was a 22 time hardcore Champion.
Slickster Posted August 1, 2004 Report Posted August 1, 2004 Raven's score (assuming we're only talking ECW/WWE/WCW) ECW World tag titles (x4) = 12 ECW World (x2) = 6 WCW US = 4 WCW Tag Team = 4 WWE hardcore champ (x5) = 5 assuming we can't count WWE and WWF as two different companies, and we're just counting those three companies, total = 31 When commentating on heat he said he was a 22 time hardcore Champion. He is, but using my system of measurement the Hardcore title is only counted 5x. And he was actually a 27-time champion.
Australian Pride Posted August 1, 2004 Report Posted August 1, 2004 Bret Hart... King Of The Ring - 4(1993) If you wanted to be picky you could also include 1991, when he first won the KOTR tournament. Since it wasn't a televised event it might not be applicable.
Lt. Al Giardello Posted August 2, 2004 Report Posted August 2, 2004 Bret Hart... King Of The Ring - 4(1993) If you wanted to be picky you could also include 1991, when he first won the KOTR tournament. Since it wasn't a televised event it might not be applicable. Wise-ass.
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