I hate Toronto

[NYU 0]

They hoped this would give them the satisfaction of being a rebel crowd. They hoped to be what New York City was at WrestleMania XX - a crowd that was ultimately saluted for their spontaneous, "smart" reactions to the Goldberg/Brock fiasco.

Yeah, the fucking smarks sure seemed to have a love affair with that crowd, didn't they?

 

Anyway, I think fighting in dead silence is far more disrespectful and rude than stupid chants, but bitch and whine all you wants, folks, it's the only reason this board even exists.

You think fighting in silence is more disrespectful than:

 

a) The fans doing the fucking WAVE during a match?

 

b) The fans chanting "BORING" during a match?

 

c) The fans loudly booing the face, chanting that he sucks, and cheering the heel, despite the fact that it completely ruins the intricate storyline that had been placed over it?

 

Okay then.

 

At least if the fans are silent during a match, you could use the excuse that they were so involved in the action that they chose not to cheer. As much bullshit as that excuse may be, it's still something that can be said.

 

With the way Toronto acted last night, what excuse is there at all?

 

The idiotic things the crowd did last night was far more insulting than staying quiet would have been. They weren't cheering anything because they liked the match or were involved in it. They were screaming things because they disliked the match or the storyine surrounding it. How is that not more disrespectful?

 

Batista didn't get cheered.

 

Oh, he did get quite a fair number of cheers. Either way, his reaction was still incredibly more positive than Edge's was.

 

The Dudleyz didn't get cheered.

 

Nope. They just stayed silent during the match.

 

Booker T didn't get cheered.

 

Same here too.

 

JBL didn't get cheered.

 

Let's not, once again, get into the absurd reaction towards that match.

 

Well, there goes your "cheered a heel in nearly every match" argument.

 

Fine. In the matches that they DIDN'T cheer a heel, they sat on their hands instead.

 

You certainly proved a point there.

[bob_barron 0]

Okay, it's really time to stop these asinine arguments.

 

Like the kind of argument you just made?

 

I'm a little tired of reading of the claims from some that Canada took a stand last night. That they stood up to Vince McMahon, said they were tired of this shit, and that they weren't going to take it anymore! Tired of the storylines! Tired of the wrestlers! Tired of the WWE style! Tired of WWE's treatment towards Canada! Tired of it all!

 

They obviously were tired of the wrestlers if they didn't care FOR THE TWO WRESTLERS FIGHTING IN THE WORLD TITLE MATCH.

 

They obviously didn't like Edge's heelish actions of the past month.

 

They obviously didn't like Diva Dodgeball.

 

Complete and utter bullshit.

 

There was no reason or logic behind Toronto's reaction last night. It's no coincidence that they cheered the heel in nearly every match.

 

Wrong.

 

It's no coincidence that they booed the face in nearly every match - faces that every other arena across the world had no problem cheering.

 

Wrong.

 

Explain Chris Jericho. He was the most over guy all night. And he's a good guy.

 

Explain John Cena.

 

Should the fans cheer and boo everyone just because they are good guys and bad guys?

 

It's no coincidence that they chose to use ridiculous chants like "Spanish Table!" They hoped this would give them the satisfaction of being a rebel crowd.

 

Nope- they were bored with the match. And since the wrestlers weren't providing amusement- they decided to amuse themselves.

 

But we can't have fun at a wrestling show unless it involves wrestling can we?

 

And HHH taking the top of the table off only to have no one go through it would've upset me too.

 

They hoped to be what New York City was at WrestleMania XX - a crowd that was ultimately saluted for their spontaneous, "smart" reactions to the Goldberg/Brock fiasco.

 

Or they just wanted to have a good time at a show they paid a lot of $$ to see.

 

Instead, the people of Toronto wound up looking like a bunch of ungrateful, egotistical assholes.

 

No- they looked like people who wanted to have fun and when Undertaker and JBL weren't providing said fun- they did the wave themselves.

 

Would you rather they sit there with their hands folded staring at the ring?

 

There really is no defending it, except for the argument of "We paid for our tickets. We can do what we want. Nyah, nyah, nyah." And the immaturity of that attitude only makes Toronto look worse.

 

But that argument is CORRECT. They did pay for their tickets, for the most part they CAN do what they want. Don't you get that?

 

The fans did not like Edge. They booed him.

The fans loved Chris Jericho. They cheered him.

The fans liked Kurt Angle. They cheered him.

The fans hated Eugene. They booed him.

The fans liked Ric Flair. They cheered him.

The fans liked Triple H. They cheered him.

The fans didn't care for JBL or Taker. They did the wave.

The fans liked Randy Orton. They cheered him.

 

They paid their hard earned money to see this show and responding accordingly. Still fail to see the problem.

 

Please. Let's not try to come up with these inspirational, heroic reasons for Toronto's reactions. Simply because, we all know, this wasn't the basis for their attitude last night anyway.

 

I don't understand what's wrong with having fun at a wrestling show.

[Dark Age 0]

6 man tag - Crowd behind the faces. They were not that hot, but they were behind the good guys.

 

Matt vs Kane - No real reaction, but they popped for Kane's win, mainly because it made for a more interesting scenario.

 

Booker vs Cena - Behind Cena, when they were interested.

 

Triple Threat - Jericho got cheered, Batista was booed (unless facing Edge), Edge booed. So far, the only face to be booed is Edge.

 

Angle vs Eddie - NO ONE BOOED EDDIE! People were behind Angle yes, but that wasn't to do with Eddie hate. People just like Angle.

 

Triple H vs Eugene - Eugene booed because he sucks. I would have booed him, and it would have nothing to do with "trying to upset storylines" or whatever. I would have booed him because I don't like him.

 

Taker vs JBL - Crowd didn't really care. But they did get behind Taker by the end.

 

Benoit vs Orton - Mixed reaction. Crowd popped for both guys.

 

So, who did they disrespect? Eugene, Edge, Taker, JBL? Maybe. Eddie, Benoit, Orton, Matt? No. Eugene and Edge have been losing popularity for a while now, so it's no shock they were booed. The only match that really upset storylines or whatever, was Taker/JBL and that's because the crowd had no real interest in seeing that match. I don't see what the big deal is.

[bob_barron 0]

Wouldn't have not buying tickets be a better way to show that you're disgruntled?

 

It's Summerslam. It's a once in a lifetime chance to see one of the biggest shows of the year. I wouldn't pass that up.

 

Ditto Wrestlemania. I went to Wrestlemania and didn't care for the first 4-way tag. So I heckled Garrison Cade instead of focusing on the match. Am I bastard?

 

You think fighting in silence is more disrespectful than:

 

a) The fans doing the fucking WAVE during a match?

 

b) The fans chanting "BORING" during a match?

 

c) The fans loudly booing the face, chanting that he sucks, and cheering the heel, despite the fact that it completely ruins the intricate storyline that had been placed over it?

 

Okay then.

 

a) The fans doing the wave is not very nice but like I said- they didn't care for the participants yet still wanted to have fun at the show. So they did the wave. And it was funny. Get over yourself

 

b) They weren't being entertained and let the wrestlers know. I don't even remember which match this happened in. If it was Taker v. JBL- I don't blame them.

 

c) They don't like Eugene. Should they blindly cheer for him because he's a good guy? They also didn't like Cripple Boy and booed him out of the building too. Are they bad people?

 

At least if the fans are silent during a match, you could use the excuse that they were so involved in the action that they chose not to cheer. As much bullshit as that excuse may be, it's still something that can be said.

 

With the way Toronto acted last night, what excuse is there at all?

 

That they didn't care for Taker and JBL and would rather do the wave then watch trash like that.

 

The idiotic things the crowd did last night was far more insulting than staying quiet would have been. They weren't cheering anything because they liked the match or were involved in it. They were screaming things because they disliked the match or the storyine surrounding it. How is that not more disrespectful?

 

It's not being nice but they were trying to have fun. No one was getting hurt- except for Taker's ego. Get over it.

 

 

 

Oh, he did get quite a fair number of cheers. Either way, his reaction was still incredibly more positive than Edge's was.

 

Because Edge has been a bastard the past month. I'd boo him too.

 

But Batista didn't really get cheered.

 

 

Nope. They just stayed silent during the match.

 

But I thought the heels got cheered in every match????

 

 

Same here too.

 

BUT TORONTO CHEERED EVERY HEEL!

 

 

Let's not, once again, get into the absurd reaction towards that match.

 

But again- those damn Canadians cheered every heel. Every single one. Even that fucker Rene Dupree. Oh wait....

 

Fine. In the matches that they DIDN'T cheer a heel, they sat on their hands instead.

 

You certainly proved a point there.

 

Yes he did- that you're wrong.

 

Toronto didn't blindly cheer every heel and boo every face.

 

I still don't understand.

 

Should the fans have:

 

Cheered every face just because.

Booed every heel just because.

In every match, regardless of how they felt, went crazy and cheered everything?

[Dark Age 0]

All I want to add is that the pop Dupree got for his dance was INSANE. That was quite awesome.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Triple H vs Eugene - Eugene booed because he sucks. I would have booed him, and it would have nothing to do with "trying to upset storylines" or whatever. I would have booed him because I don't like him.

 

Here, here!

[bob_barron 0]

How anyone can boo a good guy is beyond me.

 

Don't you get it? Boo the bad guys. Cheer the good guys.

 

This way you won't ruin the show for people who post on an internet message board

[The Mandarin 0]

All I want to add is that the pop Dupree got for his dance was INSANE. That was quite awesome.

Not even the spinaroonie came close to that. The dance was built up over the long stretch of the match, and every time he would do a big power move everybody was itching for it. That strut he did with the fist drop got a big pop, but once he hit the French Tickler, the place went BANANA.

 

Am I bastard?

Bob, you so crazy.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Wow another thread on this topic....Toronto is over baby!

 

I have to say, as a person who has been to almost every WWE show that has come to Toronto since porbably 85 or something (save the last two) I have to say I totally expected nearly every crowd reaction that happened last night.

 

The 6 man was going to be tough. It had very little build, it had Kidman/London and Spike who until recently all got no TV time, and it was meaningless. Once it got going the fans were into it, but to expect a crowd to go nuts for those guys right off the bat is a little absurd.

 

Hardy-Kane is impossible to get into. The so-called babyafce Matt Hardy is a character who has had his woman cheat on him because she feared he would get beat up (which makes him look like a pussy) and instead of being pissed at her, he takes her back and does the pussy thing by saying he'll love her regardless of whose kid it is. Then you have Kane, who is the heel but has been beat by everyone on the RAW roster lately and is stale as shit. That also a tough guy to cheer for. Also, by most accounts Ive read on various sites (this one included) people really hate the Lita-Kane angle, so WHY SHOULD THE CROWD CARE?

 

The Cena-BT was a little suprising to me, in that I though Cena would be more over, but hey, once again a lot of people (on here) have been saying Cena is bland as a face, so the crowd obviously agreed. Also, as has also been pointed out on here, its a little odd to put match #1 of a 5 match series on a major PPV. So, there was no title shange possibel, why get into it?

 

Edge is just not over. I remember saying to some people after I watched Orton-Edge from Vengeance that I thought if they do Edge-Orton at Summerslam the Toronto fans will boo Edge and cheer Orton. If anyone went to Mania X-* or to RAW when Christian turned on Edge, you'll realize that Edge is just not over here in Toronto. The WWE may have thought that Edge would be over because he's from Toronto, but had they called me, I would have informed them thats not the case. Again with Edge, there isn't much to get behind, he has no character so why would you guys expect fans to cheer for him? Oh, I forgot, he's a babyface......must cheer babyface.....Speaking of faces, Jericho seemed to be pretty over, again that was predictable to me, Toronto likes Jericho. So that kinda kills the "we only like to cheer heels" theory.

 

With Angle, I would have bet a lot of money that Angle would get more cheers than Eddie. Why? Simple, we just love Angle. Unfortunately for Eddie, he was facing our hero Kurt, so he got some heat. Hey thats life, but I dont think just because the crowd cheered for the "wrong guy" that means they are crapping on the match. If anything, it was better for the WWE because in most arenas the fans would have been pissed at Angle for winning, but in T-dot, the fans were extremely happy.

 

HHH over Eugene was also obvious to me. Speaking for myself, I hate the Eugene character. I dont like the fact that they are trying to pass off this gimmiick in 2004, and beyond that I think its horrible he's in the main event scene, since that gimmick doesn't belong anywhere near the main event. Obviously the crowd agreed. But again, I dont see how cheering for the heel is "pissing on a match". But I'm sure someone will explain it to me.

 

JBL is the WWE champ, why should people take that seriously? If anything I think the fact that the crowd ignored this match is a tribute to the real deserving guys who held that championship. I bet if this wasn't a WWE title match people would have stayed in it, but seeing JBL with the WWE title, obviously didn't sit well with the fans.

 

I was a little surprised more people weren't behind Benoit, but at the same time, I think they knew the title switch was coming, and Orton seems like the new flavour of the month, so a lot of people will get behind that.

 

The deal with Hebner is all the WWE's fault. Chanting You Screwed Bret is our way of showing our love for Bret. If the WWE really didn't want to hear that chant anymore, they wouldn't have Hebner play up the heat to the live audience, they would have done the screwjob angle 50 times on TV, they wouldn't have done that promo by HBK in Montreal, they wouldn't make a big deal about what Flair said about Hart in his book. Its all intertwined. They could have sent another referee out there, instead they had Hebner work a title match in Canada with a Canadian guy holding the title, and oh yeah, they managed to throw in a sharpshooter spot. Coincidence I guess. I cant speak for everyone who chants that, but its obvious the WWE wants it to continue or else they wouldn't have guys like Earl or Vince awknoledge it.

 

The bottom line with all this is that fans who buy tickets have the right to CHEER WHO THEY WANT. They is no disputing that. But it seems ironic to me that most of the things the crowd was against is the same stuff that most of the people on this forum are agianst. Yet, because it was expressed on TV, for some reason Toronto fans are evil.

[Dark Age 0]

I think Kane/Hardy could have been pretty good. They should have had Hardy kill Kane with everything for about 10 minutes with Kane getting in no offense. Have Lita keep distracting the ref and Hardy uses something different each time. A chair, the bell, low blow, the steps. Every time, Kane kicks out. TOF, Kane kicks out. Anyway, the whole point would be that Hardy is simply delaying the inevitable. Everyone knows he's losing. Himself, Kane, Lita, the announcers, the fans. Yet he still keeps going. Kane comes out of it like the unbeatable monster he should be. Finally, Kane gets in one bit of offense and Hardy is done. Everyone knows it. Chokeslam but Hardy kicks out. Top rope chokeslam and it's over, which would probably get a huge pop due to Kane being put over as unbeatable. Still, I think that would have been pretty cool.

 

The Cena-BT was a little suprising to me, in that I though Cena would be more over, but hey, once again a lot of people (on here) have been saying Cena is bland as a face, so the crowd obviously agreed. Also, as has also been pointed out on here, its a little odd to put match #1 of a 5 match series on a major PPV. So, there was no title shange possibel, why get into it?

 

Was there any boos for Cena, or cheers for Booker? It sounded like the crowd popped for the spinaroonie.

[dubq 0]

They hoped to be what New York City was at WrestleMania XX - a crowd that was ultimately saluted for their spontaneous, "smart" reactions to the Goldberg/Brock fiasco.

You're full of shit. Toronto has been this kind of crowd ever since I can remember.

[Red Baron 0]

The product sucked.

 

The fans booed.

 

How hard is that to grasp that concept?

[clean rob 0]

Just wondering, did you really think last night's show sucked? Personally, I thought the in-ring work was very solid all-round, possibly the best at a PPV all year.

[Dark Age 0]

I enjoyed it, but I thought most matches were too short.

[Kaertos 0]

I've read the entire thread, and I have to admit that there are a lot of people far more passionate about the crowd's reaction than I am.

 

That being said, regardless of whether or not they had the right to do what they did (they bought a ticket, they can react how they want IMHO) and regardless of how things were to the live audience, I can only report my reactions.

 

I was annoyed by the crowd to the point of not being able to focus on the match. Had I been in the live audience, I would have been more than annoyed, I would have been embarrassed forthem and I would have been pissed that I paid money for the tickets and my enjoyment of the show was impacted by things that had nothing to do with the show itself.

 

Oh, and for the record... I hate the freakin' wave no matter where I see it. Baseball games in particular.

[clean rob 0]

I enjoyed it, but I thought most matches were too short.

 

I'd agree with that. In particular, I thought the 6-man, the triple threat, Eddie/Kurt and the ME would have all greatly benefited from another 5 mins each.

 

...and of course it was obvious that diva dodgeball was cut tragically short. They're all being held down by, err, Shannon Moore! That bastard!

[Dark Age 0]

The only thing I think would even be remotely annoying would be the WWE Title match. I see nothing wrong with the crowd booing Edge or Eugene.

[Dark Age 0]

Funniest thing last night was when Tazz got pissed off in the middle of the title match. Good stuff.

[claydude14 0]

What did Tazz do? I was doing the wave, err I was in the crowd so obviously we couldn't hear the announcers. And yea, I went to the Jays-Orioles game earlier in the day and we did the wave there too. Toronto just loves the wave. Was it disrespectful to the baseball game? No. The Jays lost after blowing a 7-1 lead, so the game wasn't entertaining. JBL-Taker wasn't entertaining either, so the wave came out.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

The only thing I think would even be remotely annoying would be the WWE Title match. I see nothing wrong with the crowd booing Edge or Eugene.

But even that, you cant blame the crowd for pissing on JBL as champion. And for that matter the SD title itself, with the way the WWE has went out of their way to position the RAW title as superior, its little wonder why the fans dont care about that title anymore.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Those fans booing Eugene sure popped for the Stunner, eh? Those fans chanting "You Screwed Bret" at Hebner sure told Flair what they thought about him disrespecting Bret. And those fans sure showed respect for good wrestling during Angle/Eddie and Orton/Benoit by either sitting on their hands or chanting abuse at a referee.

 

Smart crowds, like the general ROH crowd, respect good wrestling. Toronto wasn't a smart crowd. It was a crowd that tried to draw attention to itself. It seems like that's the way wrestling fans are going. NY boo Lesnar/Goldberg and get praised for it. Boston (?) booed Steiner/HHH and got praised for it. Hogan/Rock... Lesnar/Rock... Hell, people still talk about the pro-Hart crowd at Canadian Stampede favorably. It seemed more a case of Toronto trying to be smart rather than put their own opinions across at times. It's like they were trying to change the WWE 'single' handedly, just so they could possibly say 'I was the reason JBL jobbed the title' three months down the line.

 

I'm sure the reactions were based on their opinions, but it seemed a little much at times.

 

Oh, and one observation. The crowd only seemed about 60/40 against Eugene on second viewing. He got pops for the Stunner, Rock Bottom and Legdrop.

[bob_barron 0]

From Meltzer-

 

--The big story from last night was the crowd reactions. There is a lot on that in the feedback section. The live crowd hated Undertaker vs. JBL, and right about now, I think Undertaker vs. JBL hated the crowd as well. There were wrestlers and officials very upset, and it was probably made worse by the announcers with the "bizarro world" remarks. There were even "Benoit sucks" chants. HHH and Randy Orton were said to have been the most popular, although in the case of HHH, a lot of that was the live crowd's rejection of Eugene. Edge was booed in his home town. During the JBL match, a fan broke loose and jumped on the roof of the limo and nearly exposed that the roof was gimmicked for JBL's bump. That led to the big pop that seemingly came for no reason, as well as booing when the security nabbed the guy. The wave during that match was because the crowd was bored to death of it. It was more of a rejection of the characters, and JBL as champion, and others live said it was also a reaction to the undercard. You have to remember this followed the Divas Dodge ball segment, which in hindsight, was even worse than it looked to be. Internally, there seemed to be the feeling that the crowd came to see crazy spots and were unhappy when the style was toned down. At least that's how the company seems to have interpreted last night.

[Dark Age 0]

I heard no Benoit Sucks chants. And Jericho was MUCH more over than Orton or H. And Angle, and even Eddie.

 

But even that, you cant blame the crowd for pissing on JBL as champion. And for that matter the SD title itself, with the way the WWE has went out of their way to position the RAW title as superior, its little wonder why the fans dont care about that title anymore.

 

Oh no, not at all. I was just saying I could see WHY people would be pissed off with the reaction to JBL/Taker. I wasn't personally.

 

Oh, and one observation. The crowd only seemed about 60/40 against Eugene on second viewing. He got pops for the Stunner, Rock Bottom and Legdrop.

 

Only? 60/40 against is pretty terrible for your NUMBER ONE face (yes he is). Those Eugene Sucks chants were loud as hell. I'd say Eugene could be screwed.

[claydude14 0]

Only? 60/40 against is pretty terrible for your NUMBER ONE face (yes he is). Those Eugene Sucks chants were loud as hell. I'd say Eugene could be screwed.

No, he's not. Benoit was/is the #1 face on RAW, until perhaps Orton turns or Michaels returns.

[Dark Age 0]

No. The focus of the shows is on Eugene. Eugene = Number 1 face. Don't kid yourself.

[King Cucaracha 0]

There were even "Benoit sucks" chants.

 

Well, I guess that's all the arguement you need against any 'Toronto is a smart crowd' mentions in the future.

[Guest JoeyStyles]

The Toronto fans did the right thing, WWE gave them a shitty big p.p.v. with the wrong people being pushed down our throats and the crowd wasn't going to stand for it.

[cbacon 0]

There weren't any "Benoit sucks" chants. Some groups started to get some pro-Benoit chants going but they never really took off

[dubq 0]

Smart crowds, like the general ROH crowd, respect good wrestling. Toronto wasn't a smart crowd. It was a crowd that tried to draw attention to itself. It seems like that's the way wrestling fans are going. NY boo Lesnar/Goldberg and get praised for it. Boston (?) booed Steiner/HHH and got praised for it. Hogan/Rock... Lesnar/Rock... Hell, people still talk about the pro-Hart crowd at Canadian Stampede favorably. It seemed more a case of Toronto trying to be smart rather than put their own opinions across at times. It's like they were trying to change the WWE 'single' handedly, just so they could possibly say 'I was the reason JBL jobbed the title' three months down the line.

Yeah, the Toronto fan base all got together before hand to plan out how to "get noticed" too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Riiight, give me a break.

[claydude14 0]

No. The focus of the shows is on Eugene. Eugene = Number 1 face. Don't kid yourself.

The focus of the show is HHH. HHH=#1 heel. Feuding with HHH does not make you the #1 face on RAW.