LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 Also, now that I think of it, wasn't Kaos supposed to take Messiah on about two years ago, but XPW backed out of the deal? Isn't that where a lot of their heat stemmed from originally? They were never booked to work each other in XPW. You're thinking of CZW. Kaos was going to work Messiah in CZW, but Rob Black used his political pull and threatened Kaos' XPW job if he appeared, so Chris Hamrick subbed for Kaos. Their only matches were in JCW and PCW, and they most definitely have no heat with one another and never have. They've always been the best of friends, dating back to their XPW days, and have kept in constant contact ever since Messiah left XPW (Kaos is one of the few guys Messiah really trusted during the thumb ordeal). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 . Their only matches were in JCW and PCW Also don't forget their July 24th AWS tag match Messiah/Flash Vs. Supreme/Kaos and (cheap plug) their upcoming AWS 6-man match... Messiah/Flash/Wifebeater Vs. Supreme/Kaos/Mongol No DQ match on the 25th! It's the first ever meeting between Supreme and Wifebeater too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 They announced Mongol as the third person? That sucks - I wish it was Angel or someone like that, but the show itself still looks good. AWS seems to be somewhat underrated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 They announced Mongol as the third person? That sucks - I wish it was Angel or someone like that, but the show itself still looks good. AWS seems to be somewhat underrated. Hardly as good as Grimes (the first choice) Angel or Johnny Webb may have been. But Mongol is OK... and the match is still going to be incredibly fun. And yes AWS is very underrated and overlooked. They put on some of the most diverse shows you'll find anywhere in US today (Lucha, Hardcore, US style, comedy ETC). More people should really check them out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 Well, Grimes is having health problems right now, so there's no way he could've done it. I don't think Webb's doing wrestling anymore since he got married to Veronica Caine, so I'm surprised they didn't pick Angel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 Messiah vs. Kaos. The only two talented members of the XPW roster. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 Messiah vs. Kaos. The only two talented members of the XPW roster. Ever. That's a very bold statement and it would also imply that the likes of Chris Hero, Jerry Lynn, Jonny Storm, Super Dragon, Vic Grimes, Raven, Bobby Quance, The AXP, Christopher Daniels, Terry Funk, Juvi, Psycho, Mexico's Most Wanted, Ron Killings and many others didn't have talent. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Even if XPW did beg to be hated most of the time.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 Messiah vs. Kaos. The only two talented members of the XPW roster. Ever. EDIT: Now that I think about it, it's probably not worth even touching this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DCMaximo 0 Report post Posted September 12, 2004 Messiah vs. Kaos. The only two talented members of the XPW roster. Ever. That's a very bold statement and it would also imply that the likes of Chris Hero, Jerry Lynn, Jonny Storm, Super Dragon, Vic Grimes, Raven, Bobby Quance, The AXP, Christopher Daniels, Terry Funk, Juvi, Psycho, Mexico's Most Wanted, Ron Killings and many others didn't have talent. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Even if XPW did beg to be hated most of the time.... My biggest problem with XPW was that, while they could import some very talented wrestlers, such as the ones above, due to Rob Black's funding, some of their mainstays, such as Supreme and Pogo the Clown were awful and some of the booking made the decent wrestlers, like GQ Money and Angel, look a lot worse than they were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Speaking of Messiah, I just saw him vs. Mondo from EPIC in full for the first time (only had seen the MV previously) and to say it was a letdown would be an understatement. Jay Doring rating this match ***** is the biggest joke I've ever heard of...talk about a bad taste in wrestling. Maximum of *** (I guess I can see ***1/2, but ANYTHING above that is ridiculous), and it doesn't even come close to Messiah vs. Supreme from Go Funk Yourself. Truly one of the most overpimped matches I've ever seen. Good stuff, but nowhere NEAR the quality people hype it as, and it's not just my tastes - as a death match, it was nothing more than great, and even that would be pushing it. I don't know what people see in it that makes it more special than some of IWA-MS, CZW, and even XPW's death match stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack Malibu 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Also, now that I think of it, wasn't Kaos supposed to take Messiah on about two years ago, but XPW backed out of the deal? Isn't that where a lot of their heat stemmed from originally? They were never booked to work each other in XPW. You're thinking of CZW. Kaos was going to work Messiah in CZW, but Rob Black used his political pull and threatened Kaos' XPW job if he appeared, so Chris Hamrick subbed for Kaos. Their only matches were in JCW and PCW, and they most definitely have no heat with one another and never have. They've always been the best of friends, dating back to their XPW days, and have kept in constant contact ever since Messiah left XPW (Kaos is one of the few guys Messiah really trusted during the thumb ordeal). I knew they were booked in CZW, I meant that XPW did something to negate the deal. Also, I meant the heat between the promotions, not between Kaos and Messiah. Probably could have worded that better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I knew they were booked in CZW, I meant that XPW did something to negate the deal. Also, I meant the heat between the promotions, not between Kaos and Messiah. Probably could have worded that better. Oh, OK. Sorry about the misinterpretation. The heat between XPW and CZW really started around 2000, when Zandig tried to start an interpromotional deal with XPW and Black basically told him to fuck off. The Kaos issue didn't help things, obviously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DCMaximo 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 It looks like Zandig's finally getting his feud though, albeit 4 years later. With Pain, Kaos and M-Dogg, he's got three XPW workers (2 with CZW heat, the other known primarily as an XPW wrestler). It wouldn't surprise me if that's the idea for this years Cage Of Death, especially as Cash, a homegrown CZW guy, is acting as a captain. The only thing that indicates otherwise is Wifebeater teaming with Pain, as Beater isn't an XPW guy, but at least they've got history. I wouldn't be shocked if Supreme arrived soon -he's related to Kaos isn't he?- as he's primarily a Deathmatch worker, perfect for the CoD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe2k5 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I would have to say that Nick Mondo vs. The Messiah from EPIC is one of my most favorite hardcore matches. It's one of the very few matches that I would love to see never end, just keep on knocking the crap out of each other with different stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 Speaking of Messiah, I just saw him vs. Mondo from EPIC in full for the first time (only had seen the MV previously) and to say it was a letdown would be an understatement. Jay Doring rating this match ***** is the biggest joke I've ever heard of...talk about a bad taste in wrestling. Maximum of *** (I guess I can see ***1/2, but ANYTHING above that is ridiculous), and it doesn't even come close to Messiah vs. Supreme from Go Funk Yourself. Truly one of the most overpimped matches I've ever seen. . I'd disagree. I was actually at XPW's Go Funk Yourself Live (Free tickets baby) and that was indeed a great deathmatch. But I really think Mondo-Messiah was better. It's one of my favorite matches actually. IMO It's was everything a deathmatch should be. I think it has still yet to be topped. Maybe it's something about the match's reviewer you dislike maybe?. I mean your custom title kinda kills your credibility there buddy. That's assuming you had any in the first place (Mike "Mayfield" Mayhem says Hi) Just who is obsessed with who now? Sincerely, Paul "Butterbean" Newberry Contributing writer: http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I heard about my questioning of this match and took a look at the Messiah review- in all honesty, this was one of my earlier ones and it's kinda lacking...so I'll go into better detail just for you fine people. I don't have the tape on me, but lucky for me I did (and still do, to an extent) have a CRZ-like obsession with PBP, so that should help me along. This will also probably be a little random, so bear with me. From a visceral standpoint, this match leaves an impression on you, simply for the off-the-charts violent ending, the crowd heat, and the excellently conveyed frustration of the Messiah at his inability to put his rival away. I agree with the Alvarez opinion of that being the ultimate determining point of a good or bad match. But there's some deceptively deep psychology in this sucker too. I'll do a point-by-point on this. -This match is actually very similar to the Sexxxy Eddy/Arsenal semifinal from Tournament of Death 3, in that it tells the story of Messiah (the character's) evolution. At the previous EPIC show, Messiah had easily put away Joey Ryan. Mondo is a much tougher challenge, that at first Messiah takes lightly like he did with Ryan. Even though it's a deathmatch, Messiah doesn't want to fight Mondo that way, feeling it's not needed (and he's a bit of a cowardly heel too) so he tries for the chain wrestling. Mondo, while respected for being, well "sick", has always been knocked for his wrestling ability, so he's out to prove something here. So, as a result, we get a surprisingly tight chain sequence for both guys, causing some worry for Messiah, and he goes on the defensive. Gradually, with neither one gaining an advantage, Messiah finally snaps, letting loose his finishing sequences and dishing out the tacks and tubes. So there's your psychology. -All of the deathmatch spots were extremely innovative, and virtually none of them were overly contrived, like most deathmatches. My favorite one here, was Mondo taking a tube in the face and falling off the top rope through the table -the table had been there for a while, and I totally forgot it was even there. Perfectly executed, and got the big crowd pop. On the occassions when I've asked wrestlers what the signs of a good match are, they always tell me that it's when the crowd reacts exactly the way they want them to react, and they definitely do here. Another bright point to this spot is that it referenced their first CZW meeting, where the same spot happened- I just dig stuff like that. I'll elaborate on this in a second, but I loved the realism of a lot of the spots- a lot of it, like Klein/Necro and Necro/Phantom, was stuff you'd do in real life. Mondo goes to kick a tube in Messiah's face- Messiah brilliantly uses the chair to shield himself, from the shards, and uses the chair to bash the remaining tubes into Mondo's back.This happened lightning quick. -Again, brilliant, realistic, and got a great crowd pop. -Another bright point of this match was the build- I referenced it earlier, but playing off the psychology, the gradually increased the violence, from straight wrestling, to chairs and ladders, to the sick shit. That's generally the mark of a good deathmatch, having a solid flow. Also, there's not much wasted movement here. Other than the steel coffin spot, these guys fucking take it to each other from bell-to-bell. Even when they do set up spots, they sprint through them quick and don't lollygag around like most DM workers do. And then there's the hate. Through the body language and Messiah's constant cursing, you really get the impression these guys fucking HATE each other. Then again, dumping buckets of broken glass and onto each other's eyes and teeing off Barry Bonds-style really helps too. Just SO fucking violent, it makes me a little faklempt. That said, I am going to take this down a couple notches from my original review. It's NOT five stars. The crowd brawling caused the match to drag for a bit, and I just think it's a cheap, overused, cliche spot in general. Also, Mondo went a little heavy on the finisher-killing at the beginning, which I don't care for either. So this brings the star rating from 5 to 4, on the deathmatch scale. If you're a bloodmark, this really is required viewing, and one of the top 5 US deathmatches EVER. Get this, alongside Klein/Necro, Necro/Phantom and that XPW match and judge for yourself. This really isn't just my opinion, most of the other people I've discussed this DM with hold it in very high regard. If you want names, Pat McGovern, JC Deranged and our own PFL share my opinion. If you want to ask them, feel free to email them through the staff page at http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com -Whew, that was my first long-winded review in a while, I enjoyed that. -Maybe I'll do one of a PWG show next, at www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com -Speaking of the Messiah review, which can be found at www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com -I'd like to aplogize to Excalibur for the rude comments I made about his announcing- I was a SoCal neophyte and didn't understand the "gag" they were doing. I was very wrong, and I enjoy his announcing, as well as his ringwork, on PWG DVDs, which you can find at highspots -and reviews/PREVIEWS at www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com Speaking of www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com -Kido, my apt. is being fumigated so I didn't get 'Net access back till today- so I'll post your Homicide interview tomorrow, at www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com -Jay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Patrique Report post Posted September 15, 2004 Mr. Hollywood, who if I understand writes for http://paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com , has it right. Excellent review, pretty much nothing I can add since I haven't seen the match in at least a year...I remember thinking it was easily the best deathmatch in US history, with the only problem being they burned through too much stuff at the end, but even that is a lot less extreme than in other CZW matches that have gotten praise (Gage/Messiah where they did a fucking Piledriver off a stage through a table...which was used to set up a run-in, christ). Hey Barber, do your journalist credentials ever get you into any shows? No? That's because you're not a NINJA! http://paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com , we're so important, people start chants about us at IWS and APW-LA shows! Anyway, Jigga wrote a killer review...and if you want to read more of his reviews, you can at http://paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I'd disagree. I was actually at Go Funk Yourself Live and that was indeed a great deathmatch. But I really think Mondo-Messiah was better. It's one of my favorite matches actually. IMO It's was everything a deathmatch should be. I think it has still yet to be topped. That has nothing to do with it. Would I have bothered writing a whole rant about it if I solely had an issue with the reviewer? Obviously not. PsychoDriver, you know me better than most people. I don't usually hold grudges. I truly didn't see anything too special in the match. The execution was OK, I wholeheartedly believe that the psychology was really minimal regardless of what Jay's review says). Mondo mistimed his big bump off the ringpost, and the similar bump by Messiah looked somewhat awkward. Towards, the end, it was just nonstop spots - Fall from Grace, Assault Driver, German Suplex, Crucifix Bomb, etc. Messiah drops off Mondo's shoulders and does a German. Where's the psychology that's spoken of? I agree with Jay that the buildup to the violence was executed brilliantly, but from a purely technical standpoint, the psychology was very minimal. No wrestling sequences to set up those spots. Just the spots done with mostly no transitioning. The same can't be said at all about Messiah vs. Supreme from Go Funk Yourself. In that match, they built up the use of the barbed-wire board and bed of nails to near perfection. That match was as innovative as they come. In the EPIC match, Mondo's kick to the back of Messiah's head in the last two or three minutes was perhaps the fakest, most weakest attempt at a stiff kick I've ever seen (and if you've seen your fair share of Mondo matches, you know well that he tries to kick hard, and often succeeds, but he most certainly didn't here). You're really going to tell me that a match with all of those mistakes is ****+ and better than Messiah/Supreme GFY? Look, I liked the match and all, but it was nothing compared to the hype it gets, IMHO. Not to mention you could see Messiah calling spots clear as day, something I know for a fact his trainer (XPW's Carlito Montana) taught him never to do which makes me all the more disappointed. EDIT: And Jay, the back body drop onto the ladder spot towards the beginning was about as choreographed as they come. I saw from a mile away Messiah was gonna reverse and catapult him over his head into the ladder. Also, the leadup to the spot with Messiah taking the bump out to ringside wasn't executed too good by Mondo. He *walked* into Messiah's back elbow. And then Messiah couldn't even do a damn springboard to the top turnbuckle. I've seen non-wrestlers get in the ring after shows and do that. I liked the match. I really did. But I didn't like it nearly as much as the hype made me expect I would. Hey Barber, do your journalist credentials ever get you into any shows? No? That's because you're not a NINJA! http://paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com , we're so important, people start chants about us at IWS and APW-LA shows! I'm so popular, Mike Johnson felt the need to come up to me at an ROH show and call me an asshole. I've gotten interviews with wrestlers with little problem thanks to my credentials. Do those count? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest This Thread Is Ghey Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I don't hold grudges Huh, funny, because when looking for one of your XPW articles, I found this: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I didn't make that. It was what someone sent to me to put into my XPWTV.com sig and I was fine with it. Kind of like the AFOREMENTIONED Patrick McGovern putting into his CZWFans sig something like "New Jack says he's going to anally rape Jonathan Barber with a knife." But, hey - I'm Barber, so my past is up for contention, right? Pot? Kettle? Black? Hmmm... You're right, though - this thread has suddenly become quite gheay. But as I was saying, Mondo/Messiah was a very solid match, but truly overrated by the vast majority of those who reviewed it. I personally liked their first CZW match with each other substantially more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 To sum this up, Hey I really like Mondo Vs. Messiah alot and feel it's praise is warranted. Fun Fact: Mondo didn't even know it was a death match going up until a few hours before hand, he thought it was just a ladder match. So most of those spots were done with very little planning. Pretty Impressive if you ask me. I know all this because I recently conducted an exclusive 7 and a half part interview with Nick Mondo's Girlfriend Rain's mom's friend from the hair salon who kinda looks like Hillary Clinton if you swint. She knows ALL the dirt. So keep an eye out for that interview onhttp://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com It's the website for Indy wrestling info and it also doubles as a party zone for Russian Hookers (and I do mean PARTY ZONE). You'll also find it on the forthcoming www.MondosGirlfriendsMomsFriendFromTheSalon.org website. Here's a preview: Coming soon: The Story of Mondo's girlfriend's mom's friend from the hair salon who kinda looks like Hillary Clinton if you swint two years ago - on July 31, 2002 - Mondo's girlfriend's mom's friend from the hair salon who kinda looks like Hilary Clinton if you swint embarked on a journey that would forever alter the Southern California pro wrestling landscape. This is the never-before-told story of Mondo's girlfriend's mom's friend from the hair salon who kinda looks like Hillary Clinton if you swint, straight from those who lived it... So please check back with http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com/ for that and also keep a look out for my monthly PWG Previews and as well as a series of exclusive interviews and tapes reviews I will be doing in the near future. Yes you could say: http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com is truly hotter than HELL (and from published reports... Hell is supposed to be pretty darned hot) So in closing... I'd like to say..... GO PACKERS. Sincerely, Paul W. Newberry Contributing writer: http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix Fury Legdrop 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I SOOOO just scooped you on the PCN site, located at paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com, as I scored an EXCLUSIVE interview with the Lady Who Sold Nick Mondo's Girlfriend Rain a Pair of Pants Last Week's Cousin's Dog's Vetrinarian's Cousin's Son-In-Law, as he discussed Rob Black's business practices, No. 2 pencils, AND GQ Money's dong, despite not having a clue what any of those happen to be. Plus, we got the NISE version of the Late Night Trio of Deity-ness, with me as the pale, awkard tall guy, McGovern as the creepy old guy who likes Asian dudes, and Jay...as our Jewish drummer? Remember: that's paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com YEAH!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 I SOOOO just scooped you on the PCN site, located at paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com, as I scored an EXCLUSIVE interview with the Lady Who Sold Nick Mondo's Girlfriend Rain a Pair of Pants Last Week's Cousin's Dog's Vetrinarian's Cousin's Son-In-Law Oh man why must everyone always up stage my interviews! First Barbara Walters, Then Martin Bashir, then that dude with the eyebrows, and now someone else! What is someone else gonna write long boring PWG previews now too? May as well just blow my stinking head off. What use is life anymore? Sure, I have my stunning good looks, peerless wit, amazing intellect, a natural talent for salsa dancing, and a flock of bitches that would make even Wilt Chamberlain beg for mercy...but is that really enough to make it in today's world? I tried asking my Magic 8-Ball and all it said was "Try again later" It appears that I have met my waterloo... Sincerely, Paul "Sweet Pea" Newberry Contributing writer: http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Report post Posted September 15, 2004 *marks out for the Conan O'Brien reference* And Paul, SCU still loves ya baby. Plus, the paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com life insurance policy doesn't cover suicide. Plus, we need somebody to cover that hard-hitting, years in the making exclusive interview with Nick Mondo's best friend from high school's girlfriend who lived in Cali five blocks away from the guy who picked up Kevin Kleinrock's dry cleaning!!! We're on deadline people! Chop chop! Or no soup for you!! WWW.PARADISECITYNINJAS.BRAVEHOST.COM~! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 15, 2004 To sum this up, Hey I really like Mondo Vs. Messiah alot and feel it's praise is warranted. I entirely respect your opinion, but at least have the courtesy of achknowledging some of my comments. I just went out of my way to clarify some of my points before and achknwoledged all of your guy's comments. I don't expect a cookie or something like that, I'm just saying - what do you see in Mondo/Messiah from EPIC that was any better than Messiah/Supreme from Go Funk Yourself? Am I right or wrong about my aforementioned comments regarding Mondo's bump timing, the blatant spotfest-oriented mentality and lack of psychology towards the end, Mondo's insanely fake-looking weak kick to the head, etc.? Do you see where I'm coming from here? (Jay, PsychoDriver, etc.?) I disagree with many of Jay's points, but I entirely respect them. He said the brawling brought it down a bit. I think the brawling brought it down a lot, and unlike with Messiah/Supreme from GFY, the brawling didn't mean a damn thing. At GFY, Messiah and Supreme built up the brawling. The wrestling in Messiah/Supreme was far superior to Mondo/Messiah, surprising as it may be. Messiah and Supreme were doing Snap Suplexes, a Quebrada, a Davey Boy Smith powerslam, etc. The Superplex Suicida spot was built up far better than any of the spots in Messiah/Mondo, and in fact Messiah/Mondo didn't have any oen spot that REALLY stood out more than any of the others. Where's the climax in it. The climax in Messiah/Supreme is undoubtedly when you see Supreme superplex Messiah off the top buckle and onto a ringside bed of barbed wire, and the camera moves closer to see Messiah screaming as if he's just been shot a thousand times. They did some teriffic Irish whip reversals early in before starting to use the thumbtacks, barbed wire, and nails. Supreme actually bought some wrestling to the table in that match (i.e. the leg takedown in the beginning). What about Messiah's horrible attempt at a springboard onto the top buckle, something even non-wrestlers can do? Messiah/Supreme wrestled the match of their lives, so much so that it almost caused Messiah to retire from wrestling. It drained him. So, anyway, I think we had a pretty good discussion going about the logistics of the match and were really going beyond the surface, so to just stop and ignore anyone's points is dumb when we've come this far. I've tried to respond respectively and comprehensively to your guys' good points - do you see my perspective here? What is so special about Mondo/Messiah compared to Messiah/Supreme, any of the IWS guys' matches at TOD3, the JC Bailey/Nate Webb series, etc.? I truly don't understand, and it's not for lack of trying. Jay, have you even SEEN Messiah vs. Supreme from GFY? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted September 16, 2004 I entirely respect your opinion, but at least have the courtesy of achknowledging some of my comments. I just went out of my way to clarify some of my points before and achknwoledged all of your guy's comments. I agree with this. It's all just a matter of opinion here. I don't expect a cookie or something like that, No cookie? Thanks alot dude I just baked up a bunch. Guess I'll cross you off my "give cookie to" list. To anyone else reading this: Barber's cookie is now up for grabs... if anyone wants it, please e-mail me and you will recieve the cookie of your choice within 6 to 10 working days (offer not valid outside the continental US) What is so special about Mondo/Messiah compared to Messiah/Supreme, any of the IWS guys' matches at TOD3, the JC Bailey/Nate Webb series, etc.? I truly don't understand, and it's not for lack of trying. I think it's all a matter of personal perception really. Now, I'm no "wrestling expert". I don't claim to be one and believe me I don't want to be one (frankly I think alot of them are very sad people) so I won't argue balls and strikes with you here. I'll just state that I personally hold that match in very high regard and consider it maybe the best I've seen. Maybe it was the atomosphere or something like that.. but as a fan I can say that I enjoy that match more than Supreme/Messiah (which was also very good... it don't didn't have the same effect on me the EPIC match had) It's hard to express art appreciation... so I'll leave it at that. I hope that better explains my position... now you sure you don't want that cookie? Sincerely, Paul "Cookie Monster" Newberry Contributing writer: http://www.paradisecityninjas.bravehost.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted September 16, 2004 I'll need to see Messiah/Mondo, because I have GFY, and I don't really like Messiah/Supreme that much (mostly because it was obvious Messiah was carrying Supreme) upon seeing it for the first time in a few months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 16, 2004 I'll need to see Messiah/Mondo I'll send it to you over AIM if u want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jobsquad Report post Posted September 16, 2004 well back to the show aperently acording to pwinsider.com rebel has pulled his liscence from future czw shows due to complaints about the segment before the blackout maximos match and the finish of the 4 corners of pain match. but it seems czw has a backup promoter inplace. personaly i am not that suprised. they were pushing the envelope rather hard the entire show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted September 16, 2004 personaly i am not that suprised. they were pushing the envelope rather hard the entire show. Indeed. Plus, Rebel and Zandig have had tons of heat over the last year and a half, so this probably just set it all over the edge. This thing is really sounding too much like XPW's Philly invasion - RF rescinds on his license deal and they get a backup promoter in HWA's Joe Blackburn, etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
