Connections between Bush and Swift Vets

[Guest MikeSC]

QUOTE (A MikeSC @ Aug 20 2004, 09:36 PM)

So, care to NAME the non-hacks? 

Look at who's not talking. Plenty of people see too many holes in these guys' reputation to give an opinion about it beyond moderate interest, if any at all.

So, you advocate YOU dying? I mean, you want all the hacks to "roll up and die" --- or is it just the pro-Bush ones? After all, you're OPENLY stating that this all "bullshit".

 

Man, and I thought political discourse was getting too mean and violent. Silly me.

No, there is no "figuring out" left to be done.

HE WAS NOT THERE. What "figuring out" do you need?

Kerry and O'Neill have both claimed on TV to have been in Cambodia. This was when they were both quite a bit younger. What motivation does Kerry have to lie about it over 30 years ago?

I've not heard O'Neill discuss being in Cambodia, but I have not heard every single interview he's ever given. I assume you've read a transcript or something and will be thrilled to post it, so go ahead.

 

Kerry's problem is --- EVERYBODY IS SAYING HE WAS NEVER THERE. Even his biographer is changing the story some --- and still providing not even the tiniest sliver of evidence.

 

And, Jobber, Why would all of his commanders, all of his fellow troops, and the guys WHO GUARDED THE CAMBODIA border lie? What is in it for THEM?

 

Kerry likes to play the role of war hero and dresses up EVERYTHING he ever did in Vietnam --- much to the annoyance of his commanding officers, who noted how heroic he seemed to come across in every single report he ever filed.

All the SBVfT crap will be revealed as bullshit, just give it time.

So, why do you assume it is NOW --- since you admit it has yet to be proven to be bullshit?

 

Again, Kerry has had to change his story. The SVBT have not.

 

They have SPECIFIC names, SPECIFIC ranks, and SPECIFIC statements from a LARGE variety of people. There isn't a news story that has been broken in the past year or so with more documentation than these guys have.

 

Hell, the "refutations" (one of which already being disproven --- remember, the one by the guy who was writing Kerry's campaign book?) have less documentation.

 

Fact is, he went ape-shit after the one about his Senate testimony --- which is the one he CANNOT DISPROVE ONE BIT. There is NO wiggle room there and it pisses him off because it is very damaging to him.

 

The first one --- he could argue and dismiss it.

 

The second one --- he cannot and, thus, he wishes to silence it.

 

Man, you'd think he was Ashcroft.

-=Mike

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

If we're going to start wishing death upon people, I get dibs on the AIDS grenades...

[Guest MikeSC]

If we're going to start wishing death upon people, I get dibs on the AIDS grenades...

That's all JOTW's game. I don't wish death on anybody who posts here.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Pussy...

[Guest MikeSC]

Pussy...

Umm, I am what I eat?

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Well, your AIM name has a "cock" in it (well, not the second "c", but you know what I mean).

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you...

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, your AIM name has a "cock" in it (well, not the second "c", but you know what I mean).

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you...

Is it coincidence that your AIM handle closely resembles the initials for fast-forward?

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Actually, I prefer to think that mine is the WWF looking into the mirror...

[Guest MikeSC]

Actually, I prefer to think that mine is the WWF looking into the mirror...

You would like to think that, wouldn't ya?

-=Mike

...kkk: He's a work...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Actually, you're right. They do not claim to be nonpartisan.

 

However, THIS:

ACT is targeting swing voters – such as pre-retirement women or younger voters – who need extra information about issues the persuade them to vote for John Kerry and Democrats in federal, state and local elections.

is EXTREMELY illegal under campaign finance law. They cannot endorse or oppose a specific candidate, if memory serves.

Hmm.. I found some more stuff on that

 

527 Group – A tax-exempt group organized under section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code to raise money for political activities including voter mobilization efforts, issue advocacy and the like. Currently, the FEC only requires a 527 group to file regular disclosure reports if it is a political party or political action committee (PAC) that engages in either activities expressly advocating the election or defeat of a federal candidate, or in electioneering communications. Otherwise, it must file either with the government of the state in which it is located or the Internal Revenue Service. Many 527s run by special interest groups raise unlimited "soft money," which they use for voter mobilization and certain types of issue advocacy, but not for efforts that expressly advocate the election or defeat of a federal candidate or amount to electioneering communications.

 

Political Action Committee (PAC) – A political committee that raises and spends limited "hard" money contributions for the express purpose of electing or defeating candidates. Organizations that raise soft money for issue advocacy may also set up a PAC. Most PACs represent business, such as the Microsoft PAC; labor, such as the Teamsters PAC; or ideological interests, such as the EMILY’s List PAC or the National Rifle Association PAC. An organization’s PAC will collect money from the group’s employees or members and make contributions in the name of the PAC to candidates and political parties. Individuals contributing to a PAC may also contribute directly to candidates and political parties, even those also supported by the PAC. A PAC can give $5,000 to a candidate per election (primary, general or special) and up to $15,000 annually to a national political party. PACs may receive up to $5,000 each from individuals, other PACs and party committees per year. A PAC must register with the Federal Election Commission within 10 days of its formation, providing the name and address of the PAC, its treasurer and any affiliated organizations.

 

America Coming Together is a Political Action Committee

Moveon.org is a Political Action Committee

 

The Swift Boat Veterans are just a 527.

 

(the source for all the quoted text and the ACT/Moveon/SBV info is here)

[Jobber of the Week 0]

So, you advocate YOU dying? I mean, you want all the hacks to "roll up and die" --- or is it just the pro-Bush ones? After all, you're OPENLY stating that this all "bullshit".

 

Man, and I thought political discourse was getting too mean and violent. Silly me.

Go buy a thicker skin.

 

They have SPECIFIC names, SPECIFIC ranks, and SPECIFIC statements from a LARGE variety of people.

 

And most of them are fairly ridiculous.

 

John Kerry shot himself, lied about enemy fire, lied about a Cambodia visit all the way back into the SEVENTIES so that he could build an entire alternate reality of lies to serve as the backdrop for a Presidential election many decades later.

 

Fact is, he went ape-shit after the one about his Senate testimony --- which is the one he CANNOT DISPROVE ONE BIT. There is NO wiggle room there and it pisses him off because it is very damaging to him.

 

Oh jesus, how difficult is it to tell that he's retelling other peoples' stories in those soundbytes? Come on, at least "I actually voted for the $87 billion..." was him speaking in his own words.

 

These guys are kooky, and you're even kookier for believing them. I hope you realize that supporting a bunch of TV ads with a group of old codgers making personal character attacks that informs the voter about nothing except "these men don't like John Kerry (today)" is about equivelant to me promoting F9/11 and telling everyone it's an excellent film. This Cambodia thing is supposedly the most airtight arguement these muckrakers have. How come I don't hear a peep about it in the commercials?

 

And then you went loony enough to suggest that Bush file complaints about every other PAC and 527 in response to this one. I'll assume I don't need to mention that few 527s out there have been as libelous as anything we've seen from these guys in the past month, and that by doing what you describe Bush is defending the group when, as we've seen, even he is trying to distance his national campaign as far away as them as possible.

[jesse_ewiak 0]

Doh!

From

Digby's Blog

 

I wonder if its appropriate for Ken Cordier, a member of the Veterans for Bush-Cheyney '04 steering committee to appear in the new "unaffiliated" "independent" 527 Swift Boat Liars For Bush ad?

 

Of course you will only see his name if you google the cached version (linked above) of the page on the Bush-Cheney web site. Oddly, the current linkdoesn't list his name.

 

Now I'm certain this fine gentleman who has chosen to sell out his good name and reputation by joining a filthy smear operaton like Scumbag Liars For Bush would never coordinate with the campaign just because he also served as one of the

Vice-Chairs of Veterans for Bush-Cheyny National Coalition in the 2000 campaign. (pdf) and then was named to Bush's VA-POW advisory committee.

 

But some might think it doesn't look quite kosher. In fact, some might think it looks downright illegal.

 

Update:

 

The campaign is already on to this and has sent out the following press release. What they didn't have, however, was this Google cache which shows that Cordier was listed as a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign until August 19th. (And, by the way, in case it's escaped anyone's notice, Mr Cordier has a Frenchman in the woodpile.)

[Justice 0]

So, you advocate YOU dying? I mean, you want all the hacks to "roll up and die" --- or is it just the pro-Bush ones? After all, you're OPENLY stating that this all "bullshit".

 

Man, and I thought political discourse was getting too mean and violent. Silly me.

Go buy a thicker skin.

*Giggles because of who is saying this*

 

And most of them are fairly ridiculous.

 

John Kerry shot himself, lied about enemy fire, lied about a Cambodia visit all the way back into the SEVENTIES so that he could build an entire alternate reality of lies to serve as the backdrop for a Presidential election many decades later.

 

I'd agree with you. I'm just waiting for the Kerry camp to put up, well, some sort of defense to this other than "Get it off the air! Get it off the air!" The fact that they are not doing anything to falsify the stories (Or very little, at least), doesn't make him look like the most honest guy when it comes to this.

 

There should be at least SOME sort of investigation if Kerry isn't going to friggin' DO anything besides attack Bush about these things. I mean, his Cambodia thing is an issue now because his camp can't provide any sort of decent answer for it (Even you can't).

 

Plus, well, the whole "Lying to Congress about War Crimes" thing that Teke mentioned in another thread.

 

And then you went loony enough to suggest that Bush file complaints about every other PAC and 527 in response to this one. I'll assume I don't need to mention that few 527s out there have been as libelous as anything we've seen from these guys in the past month, and that by doing what you describe Bush is defending the group when, as we've seen, even he is trying to distance his national campaign as far away as them as possible.

 

Excuse me, but I don't remember the Bush camp EVER saying Kerry has done anything but serve honorably. Is there any proof that they've renigged on this?

 

All and all, Kerry has to take care of this, not Bush, and frankly Kerry has shown an utter inability to confront anything that questions his past with a straight answer. He's the shittiest candidate I've ever seen when it comes to damage control, especially in something that should have been dismissed almost immediately by his campaign like this.

 

Seriously, all you Dems are up in arms about this, but does it truly come as any surprise? The guy has been running a campaign with the huge part of his message as "I served in Vietnam". I mean, someone was going to question him about it sooner or later, and he's given them shitty response after shitty response, from the medals spat to this. Frankly, the more and more he falters big time on this, the more and more he should have to face up to it, considering it is such a big part of his campaign.

 

And on the 527's: The reason Mike says to be worried is because the only reason Kerry is keeping up with Bush right now in the Ad war and other such things is these 527s. There's collusion on both sides (Make no doubt about it), but Kerry's hand is much deeper in the cookie jar than Bush's is.

 

Do I think Kerry is lying? I sure hope not. Otherwise he's done a fucking LOT of illegal things, and that won't look good for the political system in general. I just hope he can fucking close the case on this once and for all by giving a good damn answer rather than just trying to cry foul to the Bush camp.

[Guest MikeSC]

So, you advocate YOU dying? I mean, you want all the hacks to "roll up and die" --- or is it just the pro-Bush ones? After all, you're OPENLY stating that this all "bullshit".

 

Man, and I thought political discourse was getting too mean and violent. Silly me.

Go buy a thicker skin.

Man, irony is getting pretty darned thick here.

They have SPECIFIC names, SPECIFIC ranks, and SPECIFIC statements from a LARGE variety of people.

And most of them are fairly ridiculous.

 

John Kerry shot himself, lied about enemy fire, lied about a Cambodia visit all the way back into the SEVENTIES so that he could build an entire alternate reality of lies to serve as the backdrop for a Presidential election many decades later.

They never said Kerry shot himself. They said he fired a grenade too close to the boat, it exploded on a rock, and a tiny sliver of shrapnel embedded in his arm. As for Cambodia, he made it all up.

 

Why? Because it "sounded" good. He exaggerated his exceptionally meager military career.

Oh jesus, how difficult is it to tell that he's retelling other peoples' stories in those soundbytes? Come on, at least "I actually voted for the $87 billion..." was him speaking in his own words.

He's speaking FOR them. HE was speaking for their authenticity.

 

And he said that he (John Kerry) burned down a village.

 

Kerry made the comments for others --- never once asking if they were even truthful. And, if he believed them to be truthful, he should have reported them --- but chose not to.

 

This is all Kerry's problem. And him trying to suppress them and having his supporters try to suppress the book in bookstores shows that there IS more than a little truth to the charges.

 

All Kerry has to do is sign an SF-180 form and have the military release everything. Bashing Bush is not quite the same thing as actually disproving anything.

These guys are kooky, and you're even kookier for believing them.

Because a man telling stories that nobody seems all that able to actually verify is MUCH more reputable.*giggle*

I hope you realize that supporting a bunch of TV ads with a group of old codgers making personal character attacks that informs the voter about nothing except "these men don't like John Kerry (today)" is about equivelant to me promoting F9/11 and telling everyone it's an excellent film.

Unlike the Bush attacks, they are clearly working as Kerry is going ballistic.

 

I'm simply stating that they have a right to say their piece.

Fact is, he went ape-shit after the one about his Senate testimony --- which is the one he CANNOT DISPROVE ONE BIT. There is NO wiggle room there and it pisses him off because it is very damaging to him.

This Cambodia thing is supposedly the most airtight arguement these muckrakers have. How come I don't hear a peep about it in the commercials?

They will have more ads, you know.

And then you went loony enough to suggest that Bush file complaints about every other PAC and 527 in response to this one. I'll assume I don't need to mention that few 527s out there have been as libelous as anything we've seen from these guys in the past month

Hold on to that pipe dream. Hell, Kerry has slandered Bush by claiming he is co-ordinating all of these.

and that by doing what you describe Bush is defending the group when, as we've seen, even he is trying to distance his national campaign as far away as them as possible.

He has openly and vocally opposed ALL of these ads. Kerry, on the other hand, had no problem with the anti-Bush ads over the past year.

Doh!

From

Digby's Blog

 

I wonder if its appropriate for Ken Cordier, a member of the Veterans for Bush-Cheyney '04 steering committee to appear in the new "unaffiliated" "independent" 527 Swift Boat Liars For Bush ad?

I don't suppose you will actually DISPROVE anything, huh?

Now I'm certain this fine gentleman who has chosen to sell out his good name and reputation by joining a filthy smear operaton like Scumbag Liars For Bush would never coordinate with the campaign just because he also served as one of the

Vice-Chairs of Veterans for Bush-Cheyny National Coalition in the 2000 campaign. (pdf) and then was named to Bush's VA-POW advisory committee.

So, going the whole "smear them rather than disprove them" path, eh?

 

Do you REALLY want to go into the incestual relationship between the DNC, Kerry's campaign, and left-wing 527's?

But some might think it doesn't look quite kosher. In fact, some might think it looks downright illegal.

And I suppose you'll explain the illegality.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Just a short bit on the second ad

 

The testimony in the second ad will be in bold, the order in which the statement appeared in the commercial is in {}s

 

I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony.

 

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis {5} with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

 

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads {1}, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies {3}, randomly shot at civilians {2}, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan {4}, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam {6} in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

 

Not just out of context, but out of order.

 

Hmm.. captivating.

 

And here's this internet-only (for now) ad:

 

http://www.johnkerry.com/video/082104_old_tricks.html

 

Those five Senators were Cleland, Kerry, Kerrey, Hagel and Lugar.

 

"The man was not speaking for me. If you want to know my opinion about you, John, you served our country admirably and strongly, and I am proud of your record just like you are." - George W. Bush on Ted Sampley, who wasn't speaking for Bush, at a Bush event.

 

"You paid for an event and stood next to a person. And when you were asked if you would repudiate him, you said, "no."" - McCain in response

 

Strangely enough, the Bush defense to that was to counter the claims that he said no..

 

oh.. wait

 

the defense was "McCain did this"

 

"I'm going to see about what I'm putting on TV. And what I put on TV was looking in that camera and saying, "you can disagree with me on issues, John, but do not question... do not question my trustworthiness, and do not compare me to Bill Clinton.""

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/ja...ebate_2-16.html

 

Note: Sampley's now behind the "Vietnam Veterans against John Kerry"

[Justice 0]

Edit: NM, misread part of it.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Powerplay

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Meanwhile, file this under coincidence..

 

The Collier County Republican Central Committee web site: http://www.colliergop.org/

 

Notice anything interesting? (a snapshot is here if the Collier site changes)

[Guest MikeSC]

Meanwhile, file this under coincidence..

 

The Collier County Republican Central Committee web site: http://www.colliergop.org/

 

Notice anything interesting? (a snapshot is here if the Collier site changes)

Wow, you really don't have anything, do you?

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Meanwhile, file this under coincidence..

 

The Collier County Republican Central Committee web site: http://www.colliergop.org/

 

Notice anything interesting? (a snapshot is  here if the Collier site changes)

Wow, you really don't have anything, do you?

-=Mike

Nope, just 'coincidences'.

 

And Ken Cordier (who was in the second SBV ad) was dismissed by the Bush campaign.

 

I'd imagine calls to donate to 527s are all over Democratic party websites. And they're working with "Rock the Vote" too.

 

You have a pretty broad definition of "smear"

[Guest MikeSC]

Meanwhile, file this under coincidence..

 

The Collier County Republican Central Committee web site: http://www.colliergop.org/

 

Notice anything interesting? (a snapshot is  here if the Collier site changes)

Wow, you really don't have anything, do you?

-=Mike

Nope, just 'coincidences'.

 

And Ken Cordier (who was in the second SBV ad) was dismissed by the Bush campaign.

 

I'd imagine calls to donate to 527s are all over Democratic party websites. And they're working with "Rock the Vote" too.

 

You have a pretty broad definition of "smear"

I guess it's time for a news flash:

 

The NATIONAL GOP and the Collier County GOP are not quite the same thing, hate to burst your bubble. The national party has no association with them.

 

I hope you limber up a bit before you make these stretches.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Meanwhile, file this under coincidence..

 

The Collier County Republican Central Committee web site: http://www.colliergop.org/

 

Notice anything interesting? (a snapshot is  here if the Collier site changes)

Wow, you really don't have anything, do you?

-=Mike

Nope, just 'coincidences'.

 

And Ken Cordier (who was in the second SBV ad) was dismissed by the Bush campaign.

 

I'd imagine calls to donate to 527s are all over Democratic party websites. And they're working with "Rock the Vote" too.

 

You have a pretty broad definition of "smear"

I guess it's time for a news flash:

 

The NATIONAL GOP and the Collier County GOP are not quite the same thing, hate to burst your bubble. The national party has no association with them.

 

I hope you limber up a bit before you make these stretches.

-=Mike

(on further checking, the call to donate was removed)

 

but of course the National GOP and the Collier GOP aren't associated. The Collier GOP must be a rogue GOP, with links to Bush's site and various other GOP sites.

 

Uh huh.. hehe

[Guest MikeSC]

Who do you think told them to remove it?

-=Mike

...Obviously, the national party does not wield dictatorial control over the state parties...

[bobobrazil1984 0]

i stopped taking the swift boat people seriously when i saw that ad which started with all of them saying 'i served with john kerry' one after another, and it turned out what they meant was "they fought in Vietnam". The content of the ad hadn't even started and already there was an attempt at deception being made. so much for me believing whatever they were saying. i'm sure you could split hairs and claim its true, but we all know what its meant to imply.

[Guest thebigjig]

After reading through this entire debate so far...

 

all I gotta say is that I am so pleased that the issues that matter most to the average American, are taking front and center in this debate

[Guest MikeSC]

Moveon.org is a Political Action Committee

 

The Swift Boat Veterans are just a 527.

 

(the source for all the quoted text and the ACT/Moveon/SBV info is here)

Oh, Rob, thought you might like this. Remember the whole:

America Coming Together is a Political Action Committee

line?

 

Well, went to opensecrets.org

 

Care to guess what group is on the list of 527 committees?

 

Why, it was ACT. And they're the THIRD largest spender. Weird, huh?

 

WOW --- so was moveon.org. The sixth largest spender. WHOA!

 

Shocking, huh?

 

So, 527's aren't allowed to advocate the defeat of a specific candidate, right?

-=Mike

...Yeah, McCain/Feingold was a great idea...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Moveon.org is a Political Action Committee

 

The Swift Boat Veterans are just a 527.

 

(the source for all the quoted text and the ACT/Moveon/SBV info is here)

Oh, Rob, thought you might like this. Remember the whole:

America Coming Together is a Political Action Committee

line?

 

Well, went to opensecrets.org

 

Care to guess what group is on the list of 527 committees?

 

Why, it was ACT. And they're the THIRD largest spender. Weird, huh?

 

WOW --- so was moveon.org. The sixth largest spender. WHOA!

 

Shocking, huh?

 

So, 527's aren't allowed to advocate the defeat of a specific candidate, right?

http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/popup527.asp

 

527 Group – A tax-exempt group organized under section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code to raise money for political activities including voter mobilization efforts, issue advocacy and the like. If the 527 group is a political party or political action committee (PAC) that engages in activities that expressly advocate the election or defeat of a federal candidate, then it must file regular disclosure reports with the Federal Election Commission.Otherwise, it must file either with the government of the state in which it is located or the Internal Revenue Service. Many 527s run by special interest groups raise unlimited “soft money,” which they use for voter mobilization and certain types of issue advocacy but not for efforts that expressly advocate the election or defeat of a federal candidate.

 

http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/popupPAC.asp

 

Political Action Committee (PAC) – A political committee that raises and spends limited "hard" money contributions for the express purpose of electing or defeating candidates. Organizations that raise soft money for issue advocacy may also set up a PAC. Most PACs represent business, such as the Microsoft PAC; labor, such as the Teamsters PAC; or ideological interests, such as the EMILY’s List PAC or the National Rifle Association PAC. An organization’s PAC will collect money from the group’s employees or members and make contributions in the name of the PAC to candidates and political parties. Individuals contributing to a PAC may also contribute directly to candidates and political parties, even those also supported by the PAC. A PAC can give $5,000 to a candidate per election (primary, general or special) and up to $15,000 annually to a national political party. PACs may receive up to $5,000 each from individuals, other PACs and party committees per year. A PAC must register with the Federal Election Commission within 10 days of its formation, providing the name and address of the PAC, its treasurer and any affiliated organizations.

 

http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527grps.asp

 

Hmm.. appears MoveOn and ACT are listed as PACs

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org

 

MoveOn.org is a progressive political group based in the United States that organizes and informs an online community estimated at more than two million people. The group aims to promote grassroots advocacy by its members through various political activities including running a PAC, voter registration drives, and political advertising (especially in swing states). To these ends, MoveOn runs three organizations, each of which operates under a different section of U.S. tax and election laws:

 

MoveOn.org, a 501©(4) organization, primarily focuses on education and advocacy on important national issues. Under U.S. tax laws, a 501©(4) organization can engage in lobbying for legislative change but is not allowed to intervene in political campaigns in support of or opposition to any candidate for public office

 

MoveOn PAC, a federal PAC, primarily helps members elect candidates who reflect the organization's values. Unlike 501©(4) organizations, PACs are allowed to raise "hard money" for individual candidates.

 

The MoveOn.org Voter Fund (http://www.moveonvoterfund.org/press/02-20-04-boyd-fec.html) is a 527 organization. It primarily runs advertising and other activities aimed at educating voters on the positions, records, views, and qualifications of candidates for public office. In 2004, the voter fund has focused on running ads criticizing the Bush administration's policies in key "battleground" states.

 

And ACT would have a similar split with a 527 side and a PAC side.

 

http://www.publicintegrity.org/527/report....aid=333&sid=300

 

Although 527 committees like ACT mainly file with the Internal Revenue Service, ACT also has a federal political action committee through which it does most of its spending, mixing federal "hard" money — donations limited by federal law — and money raised by its 527 account.

 

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/topacs.asp?cycle=2004&Type=I

 

and look, MoveOn made a PAC list too, we're all so proud!

 

Yeah, McCain/Feingold was a great idea

 

It's possible for an idea to be good, and also have no real shot of working in the real world.

[NoCalMike 0]

The sad thing about all of this is that this swift boat nonsense has taken over probably as the #1 focal point right now. Which is probably what Bush wants, because now there is not even a debate going on between the two candidates, yet a debate between Kerry and a bunch of grumpy men who can't decide whether Kerry's service was honorable or if he is a traitor.

 

Funny how $500,000 can take a bunch of bittter, old men, and suddenly give their voice instant validity. This would be basically like the mainstream media giving moveon.org equal time with Bush on the evening news.

 

I am just wondering why all of these swift boat guys didn't do all this when Kerry was running for senator. I mean what, that wasn't a high enough position of power for them to suddenly "seek to put out the truth" Horseshit.

[Justice 0]

I am just wondering why all of these swift boat guys didn't do all this when Kerry was running for senator. I mean what, that wasn't a high enough position of power for them to suddenly "seek to put out the truth" Horseshit.

Simply put, it's most likely because:

 

1) They all didn't live in Massachusetts, so it didn't matter to them.

 

2) He's basically made it the focal point of his entire campaign. If he had downplayed it or maybe not used it nearly as much, we wouldn't be hearing about it right now.

 

3) Frankly, being a Senator isn't even COMPARABLE to being the President. So yeah, it wasn't high enough.

 

And on Robbie:

 

No offense, but Mediafund and Joint Victory Campaign 2004 are both Liberal 527s that are at the top of the list. Not only that, but Americans Coming Together is involved with Mediafund in Joint Victory Campaign 2004, which is NOT a PAC. I would think this means it loses it's PAC immunity, so to speak, since JVC2k4 is basically a combo of Mediafund and ACT.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

No offense, but Mediafund and Joint Victory Campaign 2004 are both Liberal 527s that are at the top of the list. Not only that, but Americans Coming Together is involved with Mediafund in Joint Victory Campaign 2004, which is NOT a PAC. I would think this means it loses it's PAC immunity, so to speak, since JVC2k4 is basically a combo of Mediafund and ACT.

I don't think there's anything covering coordination between 527s and PACs and all that.

[Justice 0]

No offense, but Mediafund and Joint Victory Campaign 2004 are both Liberal 527s that are at the top of the list. Not only that, but Americans Coming Together is involved with Mediafund in Joint Victory Campaign 2004, which is NOT a PAC. I would think this means it loses it's PAC immunity, so to speak, since JVC2k4 is basically a combo of Mediafund and ACT.

I don't think there's anything covering coordination between 527s and PACs and all that.

I think it's a grey area, but you could certainly draw the link if need be.