Oh, this is funny

[Guest MikeSC]

CBS and The Boston Globe have a story about Bush's Guard service.

 

It's based on a memo from 8/1973.

 

The document is here.

 

One SMALL problem --- it appears that the document is a forgery.

 

For starters, it lists the 187th --- in 1973, no typewriter had keys to actually make a small "th" like that. The spacing of the letters (proportional spacing, not the actually-used-at-the-time mono spacing) on the documents didn't come into effect until the usage of word processors became more common place in the 80's. The only typewriters that would have been able to pull it off would be IBM executive typewriters --- and the Nat'l Guard would not have been using those in the early 70's.

 

I know the Globe has become Kerry's official cheerleaders in the press --- but this is just REAL sloppy journalism. I guess Jayson Blair didn't teach the press well.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Now, now, Mike -- are you saying the Boston Globe isn't a respectable member of Big Media?

 

Why it was just yesterday that I saw them photograph of some guy showing Iraqi rape pictures.

 

I'm just so psyched for the three-part Kitty interview on NBC, or that Dan Rather interview with Barnes...

[Guest MikeSC]

Now, now, Mike -- are you saying the Boston Globe isn't a respectable member of Big Media?

 

Why it was just yesterday that I saw them photograph of some guy showing Iraqi rape pictures.

 

I'm just so psyched for the three-part Kitty interview on NBC, or that Dan Rather interview with Barnes...

Well, for what it's worth, Rather tried to insert some "balance" in his piece by mentioning in passing that Barnes is a Kerry fundraiser and Bush got good reviews from his commanders (BTW, should we pull out the old "How can he know if he didn't serve with him?" line?)

 

But, hey, you want a solid Kerry proposal. How does THIS hit you?

 

The other head-scratcher uttered by Kerry in the past two days came Wednesday in Greensboro, N.C. There, in response to a question from a woman about the health problems caused by mold and indoor air contamination—and her complaint, "There's not one agency in this government that has come forward" to deal with the problem—Kerry endorsed the creation of a new federal department. "What I want to do, what I'm determined to do, and it's in my health-care plan, is refocus America on something that can reduce the cost of health care significantly for all Americans, which is wellness and prevention," Kerry said. So far, so good. But then, "And I intend to have not just a Department of Health and Human Services, but a Department of Wellness." Again, what? Apparently this idea comes from Teresa Heinz Kerry, who told the Boston Herald in January 2003 that she would, in the Herald's words, "be an activist first lady, lobbying for a Department of Wellness that would stress preventive health." Oh, boy. Preventive health is a fine idea, but do we need a new agency—I assume it's not Cabinet-level—to handle it?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2106453/

-=Mike

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Oh great, more smoker persecution. I hate this election.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Christ, more health-care talk. On a certain Irish-American cable news analysis show last night, he featured this fucking hippie doctor whose head I just wanted to take a bat to.

 

Was I the only LOL2004 viewer that wanted to do that?...

[2GOLD 0]

So Kerry is going to take the suggestion of his batty wife to invent an agency so I can pay more money to a group to tell me what else will kill me even though they don't have a clue what the hell will kill me.

 

Wonderful.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Not only that, but also you're an idiot...

 

Teresa Heinz Kerry says "only an idiot" would fail to support her husband's health care plan.

 

But Heinz Kerry, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, told the (Lancaster) Intelligencer Journal that "of course, there are idiots."

 

Kerry's proposal includes health care subsidies for children, the unemployed, small companies and more; and government assistance to insurers and employers that keep premiums for workers down.

 

If Kerry is elected, Heinz Kerry predicts that opponents of his health care plan will be voted out of office. She says, "Only an idiot wouldn't like this."

 

Heinz Kerry stumped in Lancaster, Harrisburg and York on Wednesday, the third day of a four-day campaign swing through Pennsylvania.

 

On Thursday, she holds a roundtable discussion health care at a hotel in King of Prussia.

[Guest MikeSC]

Man, SNL couldn't write anything as funny as Kerry's actual campaign.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

Christ, more health-care talk. On a certain Irish-American cable news analysis show last night, he featured this fucking hippie doctor whose head I just wanted to take a bat to.

 

Was I the only LOL2004 viewer that wanted to do that?...

No, I saw it too, and I found myself talking over her in a mocking voice like Michael Savage.

"Wee have an obliiigation to help each other as people, lalalalalaal" she wasn't listening to even one of Bill's arguments which were very on point.

 

Oh, and its nice to know we'll be electing Kerry's crazy wife to ennact policy on the country too. I don't where in the constitution that's granted of a first lady. I saw all I needed to saw in her manifesto at the DNC, and I don't want this woman in charge of ANYTHING.

 

It's really funny, if it weren't for the likes of Thereasa Heinz and John Edwards I'd be more open to Kerry, but because of the people he surrounds himself with I can't even approach him with serious consideration...

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Now, now, Mike -- are you saying the Boston Globe isn't a respectable member of Big Media?

Only if the only big stories you're interested in are related to Boston..

 

 

TWO BOSTON MEN KILLED IN BLAST

New York also destroyed...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Just what we need. A potential first lady that thinks like all those health nazis that want to tax anything that isn't considered good for you.

 

Kerry's proposal includes health care subsidies for children, the unemployed, small companies and more; and government assistance to insurers and employers that keep premiums for workers down.

 

Yeah that's really going to fix that deficit.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Yeah, you know those memos that you were just talking about? The ones you claimed were forged?

 

They were released by the White House, you dolt.

 

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was "for record" and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was "for 1st Lt. George W. Bush."

 

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

 

And then, there's this little nugget within the memos.

 

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he "can get out of coming to drill from now through November." It says Bush was "told he could do ET for three months or transfer." ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

 

The same memo says "we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed" and quotes Bush as saying he would "do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status." It also says, "I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

 

Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated"'

 

Bartlett told CBS, "As it says in your own documents, President Bush talked to the commanders about the fact that he'd be transferring to a unit ... in Alabama that didn't fly that plane," the F-102, the type Bush was trained in.

 

Using only last names, one of the newly disclosed documents points to sharp disagreement among Bush's superiors in Texas over how to evaluate his performance for the period from mid-1972 through mid-1973.

 

"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush," Killian wrote on August 18, 1973. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job -- Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate." Grp refers to a military unit and OETR stands for officer efficiency training report.

 

The memo concludes: "Harris took the call from Grp today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees."

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

So, let's get this straight, Mike. The White House forged documents damaging to the President and released them to the press?

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Or am I just getting...

 

 

ROVE'D!

[Jobber of the Week 0]

What makes me laugh is how more records came rollin' out of the White House when the AP filed a lawsuit to get them.

 

And we were told that we had already seen all there is to see because the rest had been destroyed...

[Jobber of the Week 0]

To put some proper context on these memos, at risk of destroying Tyler's arguement, CBS obtained this first then showed it to the WH:

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

 

Of course, if this is some blatantly obvious child-brained forgery, it's a wonder the WH wouldn't have noticed that.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politic...ionalguard.html

 

After the broadcast, the White House, without comment, released to the news media two of the memos, one ordering Bush to report for his physical exam and the other suspending him from flight status.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BUS...JC&SECTION=HOME

 

Yet, it was the White House - not Kerry's campaign - that distributed four memos from 1972 and 1973 from Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, now deceased, who was the commander of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron in Houston where Bush served. The White House obtained the memos from CBS News, which said it was convinced of their authenticity, and the White House did not question their accuracy. There was no explanation why the Pentagon was unable to find the documents on its own.

[jesse_ewiak 0]

In the long run, none of this really matters, but here's a few things...

 

Link #1

 

From Moses to the Web

 

By Col. Edward Ophof

 

11th Wing Director of Staff

 

I enlisted in the Air Force in 1963 as an administrative specialist. Yes, we did already wear black shoes, however, Moses did still use clay tablets to get the word out! No, seriously, back then we had few electric typewriters, and since we only had mimeograph machines (producing blue type) for preparing multi-copy documents, we were forced to use primarily carbon paper to make multiple copy documents. Later, in the 70s you were really somebody, at least a commander's secretary, if you had an IBM Selectric typewriter. The Air Force has come a long way since then.

 

 

Link #2

 

'The Selectric typewriter was first released in 1961 and is generally considered to be a design classic. After the Selectric II was introduced a few years later [ 1971 ], the original design was designated the Selectric I. The Correcting Selectric II differed from the Selectric I in many respects: . . .

 

'The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line (for inserting such symbols as subscripts and superscripts) . . . .

 

'Both Selectric I and Selectric II were available in standard, medium, and wide-carriage models and in various colors, including red and blue as well as traditional neutral colors, and both used the same typeballs, which were available in many fonts, including symbols for science and mathematics, OCR faces for scanning by computers, script, Old English, and more than a dozen ordinary alphabets.'

 

Link #3

 

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

 

 

Also, one quick point...how did the forgers get that that imperfect-letter typewriter look on it? You know, where the letters don't all ink completely or uniformly? Perhaps they took some sandpaper and scraped off some of the toner. or maybe they used an inkjet and kinda rough paper. Still, looks a whole lot like typewriter work to me - I'm really curious how they got that effect in case i want to gin up some typewriter-looking pages for an art project or something.

[Justice 0]

In the long run, none of this really matters, but here's a few things...

 

Link #1

 

From Moses to the Web

 

By Col. Edward Ophof

 

11th Wing Director of Staff

 

I enlisted in the Air Force in 1963 as an administrative specialist. Yes, we did already wear black shoes, however, Moses did still use clay tablets to get the word out! No, seriously, back then we had few electric typewriters, and since we only had mimeograph machines (producing blue type) for preparing multi-copy documents, we were forced to use primarily carbon paper to make multiple copy documents. Later, in the 70s you were really somebody, at least a commander's secretary, if you had an IBM Selectric typewriter. The Air Force has come a long way since then.

Being a flight officer in the TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD, I think you actually proved his point for him. Those machines cost in upwards of $20,000 and I doubt an NG flight officer could have had one.

 

Also, one quick point...how did the forgers get that that imperfect-letter typewriter look on it? You know, where the letters don't all ink completely or uniformly? Perhaps they took some sandpaper and scraped off some of the toner. or maybe they used an inkjet and kinda rough paper. Still, looks a whole lot like typewriter work to me - I'm really curious how they got that effect in case i want to gin up some typewriter-looking pages for an art project or something.

 

Firstly, there is a Word font that mimics the old typewriter-style typeset (even to the point of having certain letters offset just like they would be on a typewriter). Secondly, it's not that hard to touch up a document to make it look like that. There are ways to do it.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

You're still ignoring the fact that THE WHITE HOUSE RELEASED THE DOCUMENTS.

[Guest GreatOne]

And you're ignoring, oh...............RELEVANCE

 

I guess who did what in Danang or Houston is relevant when Kerry wants it to be.

 

But I think I saw a good metaphor for Kerry's campaign on the news yesterday,

 

[jesse_ewiak 0]

Um, OK...just go here guys...yes, it's all EVIL LIBURALS~, but it's also a whole bunch of typewriter knowledge...a lot more than I can summarize.

 

But, again, it's not like this matters and when the questions of authenticity are coming from a site like cnsnews.com, whose owner's make Mike look fair and impartial...*shrug*

 

http://www.haloscan.com/comments.php?user=...475978839443880

[Guest GreatOne]

I'm glad that the democrats are as concerned about the real issues as they claim to be.

 

Hell just today--while Bush was speaking on, you know 'important stuff' like the economy, health care, and education, Kerry was in the midst of another 'George Bush isn't addressing the REAL issue, is that he led us into Iraq..................' rant--wow never heard one of those in the last seven months...............

[Slayer 0]

Man, SNL couldn't write anything as funny as Kerry's actual campaign.

-=Mike

SNL can't write anything funny anymore

[NoCalMike 0]

I'm glad that the democrats are as concerned about the real issues as they claim to be.

 

Hell just today--while Bush was speaking on, you know 'important stuff' like the economy, health care, and education, Kerry was in the midst of another 'George Bush isn't addressing the REAL issue, is that he led us into Iraq..................' rant--wow never heard one of those in the last seven months...............

it's not the democrats so much as Big Media, and their willingness to take anyone's word on this issue. This is all they are basically covering. They should basically put a moretorium on both sides concerning vietnam service & Texas guard service, but they won't, because they would rather cover the nasty name calling then discussion on the issues, so don't blame democrats, hell, don't blame republicans either, blame big corporate media.

[Guest GreatOne]

Again, the one side that preaches it the most should be the one that, god forbid, sets the example.

 

I doubt when Kerry was the next big thing coming out of the primaries, CNN or whoever was in Terry McAuliife's ear saying 'Let's bring up this AWOL Bush thing even though it was already debunked and see if we can make some hay out of it'

[NoCalMike 0]

Again, the one side that preaches it the most should be the one that, god forbid, sets the example.

 

I doubt when Kerry was the next big thing coming out of the primaries, CNN or whoever was in Terry McAuliife's ear saying 'Let's bring up this AWOL Bush thing even though it was already debunked and see if we can make some hay out of it'

Again, your missing the point. It doesn't matter who is yelling louder. Both sides are being refuted and then just churning out more people in droves to repeat the same thing over and over again. Add this to the media's willingness to give validity to any group with the word "for truth" in their name, and you have a mixture which results in what we currently have. If the media simply stopped covering this bullshit from both sides and took it upon themselves to ask questions about the issues and not about who did what, 30 years ago, maybe we would hear discussions about the issues. The media however, has decided to swarm themselved knee deep into this endless pit of nonsense, and milk it for every last ratings drop it can.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yeah, you know those memos that you were just talking about? The ones you claimed were forged?

 

They were released by the White House, you dolt.

 

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was "for record" and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was "for 1st Lt. George W. Bush."

 

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

And if you think that Bush knows everything in his record, you're insane. Hell, I doubt Cerebus has read over every document in his record.

 

Oh, UPDATE:

The documents were the exact ones CBS sent the WH months back.

 

The documents were forgeries, plain and simple. The typeset was completely wrong for that time frame. The "th" was all but impossible on all but the highest level machines --- something quite unlikely to be used for a simple memo (as they were also, by all accounts, insanely difficult to use). The spacing of the letters is impossible --- as proportional spacing simply was not widespread until the 1980's.

And then, there's this little nugget within the memos.

 

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he "can get out of coming to drill from now through November." It says Bush was "told he could do ET for three months or transfer." ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

 

The same memo says "we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed" and quotes Bush as saying he would "do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status." It also says, "I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

 

Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated"'...

That document, flat out, is a fake. indcjournal.com had Dr. Phillip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner, check it out and he said it's "90% likely that it's a forgery". Weekly Standard had William Flynn, a forensic document expert and one of the top authorities in the country on computer-generated documents look at them and he said they look like forgeries.

 

The font, flat out, is Times New Roman --- which did not exist in 1973 and ONLY exists in computers as is.

 

And, shockingly, it takes the internet to do the work that the press should have done before unleashing this lie. The officer's SON says he doesn't think they're real.

 

But, hey, ALL of these people might be lying.

 

Oh, should I mention that the Staudt listed in this memo liked Bush --- and retired in 1972, which is before this memo was written? (Source)

 

Also, keep in mind, if pressure WAS being mounted to "sugar-coat" a record, an admission of this would lead to the officer in question getting shit-canned. And, rest assured, NO officer would mention their complicity in a memo and KEEP it.

Also, one quick point...how did the forgers get that that imperfect-letter typewriter look on it? You know, where the letters don't all ink completely or uniformly? Perhaps they took some sandpaper and scraped off some of the toner. or maybe they used an inkjet and kinda rough paper. Still, looks a whole lot like typewriter work to me - I'm really curious how they got that effect in case i want to gin up some typewriter-looking pages for an art project or something.

Run the copy through a Xerox machine a dozen or so times will do the trick nicely.

-=Mike

[jesse_ewiak 0]

Um, I don't really care, but since I've had to read about this on blogs all day...

 

* I've read multiple people saying they had IBM Selectic's in the late 50's to early 70's who could do everythnig in that later. From Atrios blog..

 

BTW, I took a typing class in my high school in a poor Texas public school district in 1972 or 1973. The machines we used?

 

Brand new IBM selectrics, with the 'golf ball' print head. I don't remember a whole lot about it, but I do remember that we could switch out the print head for other balls with different typefaces. There were about 5 or 6 choices, but I don't remember if we had Times Roman. I see from what other people have posted that this was a common option.

 

If my underfunded school district could afford a couple of dozen of these 'exotic' machines, I don't know why it's so hard to believe that Col. Killian could have had one.

 

* Also, Okay. Times New Roman is (currently) an exact copy of Times Roman because one font studio owns the former trademark and another studio the latter trademark. US Copyright law does not protect font designs (although there's some legal murky area wrt computerized font files). Times Roman has existed since the 1930s.

 

I'm not going to argue with you on the rest...

 

 

Hmm...proportional spacing..."Curly" quotes...in 1954...hmm...

[SuperJerk 0]

And my mom used to have a typewriter that had the "th" key on it.

 

Nice try, Mike.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

And my mom used to have a typewriter that had the "th" key on it.

 

Nice try, Mike.

I think Mike was referring to typewriters that were around at the time something like that would've been written.