The Countdown to Beltran with Yankees Topic

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Someone had suggested this in the ALCS topic, but I'm too lazy to look in there to see who did. Whoever came up with the idea, you get the credit amigo.

 

So how long is it until Beltran signs with the evil empire? Will the Yankees even get him? What do you think?

[Guest Anglesault]

They damn well better.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Yes, because we've seen how well throwing money at the problem has worked for the Yankees thusfar.

[Guest Anglesault]

Yes, because we've seen how well throwing money at the problem has worked for the Yankees thusfar.

2002: we had a meltdown of epic proportions with four really good pitchers going. Not Much you can do there.

 

2003 Will forever be known as the Year of Weaver.

 

2004 is the only year you have an argument. All the big name stars (A-Rod, Sheff, Brown, Jome Run Javy) quit at the same time.

 

But we have no better options.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Regardless, three straight years, they've thrown money at it and, subsequently, gotten nothing in return. They can't even get people in trades anymore because their farm system is so fucking dismal. You know, if they want to get Beltran and Pedro and whomever else, fine. But seriously, you'd think they would learn by now to build up their farm system and try to grow at least a few of their own players.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

They damn well better.

You truly believe that offense is what kept the Yankees from going to the World Series? It went cold in the NLCS, but when you have Jeter, A-Rod, Sheffield, Matsui and Posada in your everyday lineup, offense shouldn't be a high priority.

 

Why not throw some of that bank into the tailend of the mediocre starting rotation and god-awful bullpen?

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

I'm beginning to think Pedro's gonna stick with the sox.

[Guest LooneyTune]

How bout buying some young, GOOD pitchers. Javier Vazquez' career record coming into the 2004 Season was BELOW .500, so I honestly didn't expect shit from him (and I was right...he still sucked). They signed Jeff Weaver in 2002, who pretty much collapsed 3 innings into his Yankee run. Jose Contreras collapsed after about 4 good starts and some bullpen work in 2003.

 

Signing people like Kevin Brown, or god help us, David Wells, does not solve the long term solution. I like Wells, but the guy is getting up there in age, and Brown is just a dumb fuck who is also getting old. Mussina has been around for almost 15 years, so he's declining, Esteban Loaiza (who DID pitch good in the playoffs) was a one-year wonder in 2003. El Duque is a question mark now, considering his last few starts of the year and pretty much going "dead arm".

 

The Bullpen was no better. Outside of Mariano Rivera and Tom Gordon, they bullpen was shit. Paul Quantrill had a good first-half of a season, but was over-used and just went down the toilet. Felix Heredia kinda got better (as good as polishing a turd is) but was abysmal for 90% of the season, and even had to be sent to Single-A ball. Bunch of no names like Prinze, Proctor, CJ Nitkowski, Osbourne and a bunch of other losers throughout the season didnt help easy. Karsay barely was able to pitch 4 innings thanks to Tommy John, so he added/loses nothing.

 

Then there's Tanyon Sturtze, who did a respectable job considering how flat the teams bullpen/long relief was this year, although I wouldn't say he saved our asses either unless it was a 22-0 massacre and he held a team down to only 3 runs.

 

My point? SIGN YOUNG PITCHERS WHO CAN WIN!

[Guest Anglesault]

Regardless, three straight years, they've thrown money at it and, subsequently, gotten nothing in return.

Such is baseball.

 

You know, if they want to get Beltran and Pedro and whomever else, fine.

Thank's for your approval.

 

 

But seriously, you'd think they would learn by now to build up their farm system and try to grow at least a few of their own players.

 

Not that the Yankees should have to answer to this "they don't win with any of their own players" HORSESHIT (Hey, look at the teams in the Series. Fucking full of guys from their farm system, right?) but we have some real telent in the lower levels.

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

I'm beginning to think Pedro's gonna stick with the sox.

It's Boston to continue the championship mojo or he's headed to hang with his boys in Anaheim.

 

If he signs with New York, he has no integrity and Honor and either does George.

 

Rodge was different story, The Yankees were the ONLY team to get him that elusive ring and still generally loved by the fans before he went over. Three years in TO was enough to allow him to go NY...yet BoSox consider him a traitor.

 

Imagine how they would feel if they WON the WS and Pedro bolts to the Yankees or even worst, if they blew it again and still went to NY. If he left for Anaheim, I doubt there would be that much of a backlash considering they will still have Schilling and I'm sure they will pick up a couple new younger pitchers like Pavano.

 

Again, Like I said, it's not The CF that's an issue for New York, they completely need to focus on building a stronger rotation And Bullpen, no more aged veterans like Brown, Gordon, and one year wonders like Loaiza. Young strong pitching is best in the long run.

 

Go ahead and pick up beltran if they must but I don't believe it's that crucial besides I thought it was said that Beltran is really wanting to stick around in Houston.

 

Can Houston afford him anyways?

[Guest Anglesault]

, offense shouldn't be a high priority.

His defense is, though.

 

Signing people like Kevin Brown, or god help us, David Wells, does not solve the long term solution.

 

And we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

My point? SIGN YOUNG PITCHERS WHO CAN WIN!

 

FIND SOME.

[Brett Favre 0]

Yes, why do the Yankees have to be the only team to use farm player, and develop them, and NOT sign free agents or make trades for players? Look at Cards. Rolen, Edmonds, Renteria, Sanders, Walker, Womack, Matheny, Marquis, Suppan, Isringhausen (sp?), Cedeno, Tavarez, King. I mean damn.

 

Look at the Red Sox: Ramirez, Damon, Millar, Mueller, Ortiz, Bellhorn, Cabrera, Varitek, Lowe, Martinez, Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke, Timlin, Embree, Roberts, Reese, Mcckslfkdlfksljks. What the hell?

[Guest Anglesault]

N/a

Edited October 23, 2004 by Anglesault

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

No one's saying they can't trade/buy players. However, the fact that they've completely exhausted their farm system by trading for chokers kinda suggests that it isn't exactly the answer to the problem.

 

I'm not exactly supporting the Red Sox or Cardinals' business model, either. But neither one has been as big a mover in the market as the Yankees.

[Mik 0]

Just as long as the Yankees lay off Carl Pavano...

 

Ok, back to dreaming.

[Guest Anglesault]

No one's saying they can't trade/buy players. However, the fact that they've completely exhausted their farm system by trading for chokers kinda suggests that it isn't exactly the answer to the problem.

.

Then WHAT THE HELL IS?

 

Gutting the team, embarssing everyone with a shitfactory of a group for the next five years, so that in ten years, we'll be exactly where we are now? With a shot to win it all, if breaks go our way?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Well, obviously, nothing is the solution!

 

You've decried the necessity of "team chemistry" almost nonstop for the last three years. Read between the lines.

[Brett Favre 0]

No one's saying they can't trade/buy players. However, the fact that they've completely exhausted their farm system by trading for chokers kinda suggests that it isn't exactly the answer to the problem.

.

Then WHAT THE HELL IS?

 

Gutting the team, embarssing everyone with a shitfactory of a group for the next five years, so that in ten years, we'll be exactly where we are now? With a shot to win it all, if breaks go our way?

Sounds good.

[Brett Favre 0]

2002: Out in the First Round

2003: Lost in the World Series

2004: Lost in the ALCS

 

Compared to the A's moneyball crap:

 

2002: Out in the First Round

2003: Out in the First Round

2004: Sans-Playoff

 

Really, I think we're doing fine.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, obviously, nothing is the solution!

.

Nothing wrong with what the Yankees are doing currently. We've had a shot three years in a row, and one of those three, were a stone(r's) throw away from being World Champions.

 

Killing the team now so that we can be in the exact same position of "having a shot) in 2014 makes no sense whatsoever.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

the Yanks should not give in to the urge to retarded things, like dumping Kevin Brown or Vasquez. Generally when you win 100+ games you've got more things going for you then against.

 

But to say the Yanks should pass on Beltran because they need pitching is dopey. They also need a centerfielder, and one just happens to be avaliable.

[2GOLD 0]

Pitching, speed and clutch hitting wins the World Series. Not bash ball.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Regardless, three straight years, they've thrown money at it and, subsequently, gotten nothing in return. They can't even get people in trades anymore because their farm system is so fucking dismal. You know, if they want to get Beltran and Pedro and whomever else, fine. But seriously, you'd think they would learn by now to build up their farm system and try to grow at least a few of their own players.

They did for awhile and that's when they won all their World Series. Supposedly they can't do much more than sign Carlos Beltran unless they want to eat the money on contracts and pay other teams to take players.

 

They started not winning World Series when they started loading the team with free agents and George starting threatening everyone in March about winning it all.

[Vern Gagne 0]

What's forgetten is the buildup of the dynasty started when Steinbrenner wasn't allowed to be involved in day to day operations. As long has George is able to run things the team will never truely build of the farm system.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Pitching, speed and clutch hitting wins the World Series. Not bash ball.

there's a game in Boston tonight that you may want to watch...

[Guest Anglesault]

Regardless, three straight years, they've thrown money at it and, subsequently, gotten nothing in return. They can't even get people in trades anymore because their farm system is so fucking dismal. You know, if they want to get Beltran and Pedro and whomever else, fine. But seriously, you'd think they would learn by now to build up their farm system and try to grow at least a few of their own players.

They did for awhile and that's when they won all their World Series. Supposedly they can't do much more than sign Carlos Beltran unless they want to eat the money on contracts and pay other teams to take players.

 

They started not winning World Series when they started loading the team with free agents and George starting threatening everyone in March about winning it all.

The teams that they won all the World Series with were full of non-Yankees. Granted, some were trades as opposed to FA, but still.

 

Look at 98

 

 

The starting First, Second, Third basemen, Right Field, Left Field, DH, and the majority of both the starters and relivers were not Yankee farm hands.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Look at the two teams in the World Series now. The Sox have maybe 1 player that was in their farm system, and the Cardinals have a lot of power hitters that aren't exactly Cardinal farmed either.

[Guest Anglesault]

Look at the two teams in the World Series now. The Sox have maybe 1 player that was in their farm system,

Trot Nixon (who probably won't even play in St. Louis), Fairytek and, if you want to be cute, Fat Curt.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

It depends on who you buy. If the Red Sox don't go out and get Schilling last year, then they are sitting home watching the Yanks tonight.

 

The Yanks got guys like Kevin Brown, and now they have a bunch of overpaid slugs who can't get the job done, nothing on the bench, big holes in their pitching staff, and no trade-bait. They have to do everything through free agency, because they've got nothing they can trade. Beltran is an improvement, but there is nothing on the pitching front (Pedro is crap in Yankee Stadium) and that is their weakest point.

 

They are going to have the exact same problems next year. Beltran is an upgrade, but he's not what they really need. Just like A-Rod this past year.

[The Man in Blak 0]

No one's saying they can't trade/buy players. However, the fact that they've completely exhausted their farm system by trading for chokers kinda suggests that it isn't exactly the answer to the problem.

.

Then WHAT THE HELL IS?

 

Gutting the team, embarssing everyone with a shitfactory of a group for the next five years, so that in ten years, we'll be exactly where we are now? With a shot to win it all, if breaks go our way?

Yeah, you're right. Why should the Yankees have to go through the same development process as teams with less than $60 million for payroll?