And So it Begins

[Guest Anglesault]

As opposed to this same person that wants Torre, Cashman and the rest of them fired for giving them four titles?

You could argue that both are responsible for the last two years worth of diasters.

 

Four rings only takes you so far.

This attitude makes me hate yanks fans more than anything.

 

YOU WON FOUR FUCKING TITLES

 

I'm more than happy with this one.

Good. Don't root for the Red Sox next year then. You're happy with your ring and clearly don't want another.

 

I happen to want another ring. I want a parade, God damnit.

Not saying that at all.

 

But be appreciative of what you've been given as a fan, for god's sake.

Yeah, it was great. But it's over now.

 

Time to move on and win again. By any means necessary.

[the pinjockey 0]

*peeks into thread*

 

Ooh, more Yankees- Red Sox back and forth.

 

*feels free to ignore baseball threads from now on*

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Ok, we get it. Red Sox Suck, Yankees Suck, blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Can we get back to the Free Agency talk?

[Brett Favre 0]

Where the hell was that said?

[Der Kommissar 0]

Haven't the Yankees been to the playoffs each of the past 4 years, going to the World Series twice, and coming within one game of going to the Series this year? They should be happy. Heck, no other team has been to the World Series more than once over that same period of time.

[Bored 0]

*peeks into thread*

 

Ooh, more Yankees- Red Sox back and forth.

 

*feels free to ignore baseball threads from now on*

Yup this thread was perfectly fine for a couple of games but it degenerated into the usual crap. There really needs to be a OaO Red Sox/Yankees Offseason Thread.

[Guest cpac]

Oooo Jeter also has something well two things that Manny doesn't have.  One is intelligence and the other is Class.  So go root for that ignorant idiot all you want.  I rather have root for someone with class and gives respect to others.  Congrats Boston you won a fucking world series now get over the yankees.  God the team finally wins a fucking world series and they are so caught up with the yankees.  Show a little class and enjoy an accomplishment instead of worrying about the yankees.  Dont you have anything better to do?

Sorry, my team completed the biggest comeback in baseball history and Manny decided to have a little bit of fun at Jeter's expense.

 

Get the fuck over yourself. This is undoubtedly the greatest week of his life, as well as the lives of Red Sox fans. And now he has no class? As opposed to a fanbase that wanted Tony Clark to die the night that Foulke struck him out? As opposed to this same person that wants Torre, Cashman and the rest of them fired for giving them four titles?

 

Some crafty logic there.

 

And I'd take Manny over Jeter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. His defensive woes aren't as bad as people think, he's actually not that bad in the field and has a great arm, he just makes mistakes every now and then. Like Jeter.

IF IT WAS SUCH A GREAT WEEK THAN BE HAPPY, I GAVE THE RED SOX PROPS FOR WINNING A FUCKING WORLD SERIES. Just because the Red Sox won doesn't mean they have to be classless assholes about it. I mean these Red Sox players for the past 2 years have done nothing but classless acts. From the Oakland A's series till now. You wont see the Yankees doing stupid shit about Boston after a world series championship. I am just trying to point that the Red Sox should be happy that they won and celebrate but not be classless. They need to get over their infatuation with the yankees.

[Guest Anglesault]

Haven't the Yankees been to the playoffs each of the past 4 years, going to the World Series twice, and coming within one game of going to the Series this year?

Yes. And we have nothing to show for it.

[Fökai 0]

"And So It Begins"...

[CanadianChris 0]

IF IT WAS SUCH A GREAT WEEK THAN BE HAPPY, I GAVE THE RED SOX PROPS FOR WINNING A FUCKING WORLD SERIES.

No, you didn't. Not once.

[Guest Anglesault]

IF IT WAS SUCH A GREAT WEEK THAN BE HAPPY, I GAVE THE RED SOX PROPS FOR WINNING A FUCKING WORLD SERIES.

No, you didn't. Not once.

You don't have to do it on this board.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

A mod can feel free to step in at any time. Some of us actually want to see the thread get back on topic, even if if means we might not talk about the Red Sox or the Yankees for a few minutes.

[Guest Anglesault]

Some of us actually want to see the thread get back on topic,

You're more than welcome to stop whining and do so. I'm not stopping you.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well?

 

Are we going to discuss the God damned topic or not, Bruiser? I want your thoughts on the Cubs.

 

Or did you just complain for the hell of it? So out of character for you.

[Guest webmasterofwrestlegame]

Well the Angels have just about confirmed that they won't be offering Glaus a new contract, coming out and saying they see Dallas McPherson as the immediate future in that role.

 

Percival's agent has also said that the Angels have refused to offer his client a new contract thus far, so both troy's are likely gone.

 

K-Rod will step up into the closers role.

 

It is widely believed that the management want to address starting pitching and add an outfielder and possibly a short-stop. Nomar has been linked for shortstop, while I can see a big-name free agent pitcher coming to Anaheim as well.

 

We could make a run at Beltran, as we clear Glaus, Percival, Appier, Sele from the payroll and raise significant funds, even though our owner has said he wants to shave payroll. Vernon Wells has also been linked, as they want to move Anderson back to LF and ship Guillen, his power bat and silly temper, out of Anaheim.

 

I am pretty sure we will resign Bengie Molina.

 

With Sele, Ortiz, Mondesi, Glaus, Appier, and Guillen gone, we raise $37m. I would look for $20m of new contracts coming in, as Anderson gets a big rise this offseason due to a new contract he signed at the start of last season.

[KingPK 0]

There's a Sox-Yankees thread now, so take all that shit there, because I'll delete any I see here from now on.

 

Anyway, it will be pretty interesting about Nomar's insistance for a one-year contract so he can prove he's healthy again, which essentially makes him not only a Rent-a-Player, but a Rent-a-Player With Question Marks. I don't know how many teams will bite on that. The Cubs will probably resign him, but he's always wanted to go back West, so if the Cubs don't, I could definitely see him in LA.

 

As far as the Sox, I think they should resign Varitek (natch), try to keep Pedro, but don't give him crazy money (11M/yr for 3-4 years would be my offer), MAYBE keep Lowe, since he seems to up his game in the playoffs (but is much too inconsistent for my tastes during the season), get Pavano or as a 3rd or 4th starter (in front of or behind Wakefield, or maybe as a number 2 if Pedro goes, in which case they should make a play for Radke as well).

 

As far as the offense, if they can do better than Cabrera, then they should (even though I like the guy). I'm not too horribly concerned about the offense, since the Big Guys (Manny, Ortiz, Damon, Mueller since they picked up the option, and Nixon, though who knows how the injuries will affect him) are locked up for '05 (I would try to retain Mirabelli, for Wake's sake, and the fact that he CAN hit when called upon). When is Doug M. up for FA, anyway? End of '05?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I don't know what the Reds should do. I think they should ditch Girffey and Graves and use the money to completely retool the pitching staff and maybe add one of those FA shortstops.

[Guest Brian]

I heard somewhere that the Sox were more interested in keeping Lowe, because the money on Pedro was going to be too high, but the situation with Lowe is in doubt because he was mad at being taken out of the rotation.

 

Man, I wish Griffey could just be healthy for a few years. I miss watching him play.

[Bored 0]

It wouldn't be an offseason without Peter Gammons' rumors:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1912558

Now, of course, King George's War restarts. The Yankees will be in on Carlos Beltran, but also want two starters. If they can't get Randy Johnson, they'll dabble for Eric Milton (his 0.58 ground ball/fly ball ratio is a killer in that whiffle ball park in Philly, although 23 of his 43 gopher balls were on the road), Jaret Wright, Radke, Pavano and Martinez. The issue of Jon Lieber's $8.5 million option will be worth watching; Lieber is very good, and probably can rework a longer deal with a lesser 2005 hit ...

 

Baltimore is looking for a starting pitcher and a righthanded-hitting outfielder and may move or non-tender Jay Gibbons ... The White Sox have little money, and Ken Williams is starting at shortstop and trying to find a starter and an outfielder ... Cleveland has changed its priority from starter to closer, but Armando Benitez or Troy Percival may be pricey. The Indians will sign a second-tier starter, but likely won't try to get into it for one of Oakland's Big Three ...

 

Once the Angels decline the option on Ramon Ortiz, they're supposed to have $13 million to get them to a $95 million budget, a number owner Artie Moreno may move up. They need a shortstop (Garciaparra?) and a starter. However, having decided to say goodbye to Troy Glaus, Bill Stoneman is expected to make a run at Beltran and possibly Pedro Martinez.

 

Atlanta's budget remains at $80 million if John Schuerholz cannot trade Andruw Jones, with J.D. Drew, Wright and Russ Ortiz on the market. The Braves may look for bullpen help and use John Smoltz in the rotation with Mike Hampton, John Thomson, Horacio Ramirez and Jose Capellan ... The Cubs want a closer, but first have to decide their situation at short, the outfield and second base ... The Cardinals are worried that without a bump in budget it may be difficult to sign Renteria, Mike Matheny and Woody Williams (whose agents are looking for more than one year), and will be major players in the Randy Johnson trade sweepstakes ...

 

The Mariners and Tigers are both expected to be big spenders, with the M's looking for power (Richie Sexson ... Carlos Delgado ... Adrian Beltre ... Troy Glaus?). Detroit will spend for a closer and veteran starter, like Derek Lowe ... The Padres think they can get out from underneath Ryan Klesko's contract by putting Sean Burroughs in a deal with Klesko ... The Giants need a shortstop, closer and center fielder, with little money to remain at $80 million ...

 

Oakland may put Mark Mulder, Barry Zito and Tim Hudson on the market and take the best deal for one of them. It appears Billy Beane plans to take a step back and develop young players. OF-1B Nick Swisher ("Jim Edmonds at $300,000," says one scout) and 1B-DH Dan Johnson are expected to play a lot in 2005, with RHP Joe Blanton in the rotation and Huston Street and Jairo Garcia in the bullpen. The A's think catcher Landon Powell and outfielders Jason Perry and Richie Robnett will be ready in a hurry, so 2005 may be a re-tooling season with Erubiel Durazo available ...

 

The Rangers have $15 million to spend, and will sign one or two lesser pitchers and try to get a shortstop and trade Alfonso Soriano ... In one year, catcher Sandy Martinez played for Aguilas when it won the Dominican League, the Dominican Republic when it won the Caribbean world series, Buffalo in winning the International League and was with the Red Sox when they won the World Series ... Jim Leyland is very much in the Philly managerial chase, and the Mets have been told Wally Backman is getting the Arizona job over Bob Melvin and Manny Acta ...

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Well?

 

Are we going to discuss the God damned topic or not, Bruiser? I want your thoughts on the Cubs.

 

Or did you just complain for the hell of it? So out of character for you.

I mentioned Nomar filing for free agency in the middle of this Sox/Yanks mess but I suppose you were too busy finding more reasons to complain about a team that hasn't won a championship in 48 aching months.

 

You should probably relax. It's clear you're still not over the complete collapse of your team to the Rebels.

[Guest Anglesault]

but I suppose you were too busy finding more reasons to complain about a team that hasn't won a championship in 48 aching months.

I love how people decide Yankee fans should be content with losing in devastating fashion four years in a row because we won in 2000. It makes no sense.

 

It's clear you're still not over the complete collapse of your team to the Rebels.

I'm fucking over it. I've accepted that those SOBs quit on me and almost singlehandedly caused my worst baseball nightmare, and in doing so, almost completely killed my interest in what was once the highlight of my year. But I'm over it.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

No one said you should be content with losing. But quit acting like they've not won anything in decades. Just because they have the money to assemble a team of all-stars doesn't ensure victory. It's a shame they set the bar so high for people like you during their last championship run. Now anything less than that implies that they're quitters who want to lose. Speaking of which...

 

I'm fucking over it. I've accepted that those SOBs quit on me and almost singlehandedly caused my worst baseball nightmare, and in doing so, almost completely killed my interest in what was once the highlight of my year. But I'm over it.

 

Oh please. Get over this notion that they actually fucking QUIT. I'll give you that they probably figured they had little worry about with a 3-0 lead, but once game six rolled around, I doubt they were still sitting pretty.

 

Just because a team loses or doesn't look motivated, doesn't make them so. I'm sorry, but the Yankees of the last five or so years have always looked lethargic. I think that's just taken for granted that they're going to be contending every season. But stop with the idea that they don't want to win or they just gave up.

 

Yeah, I'm really sure they wanted to be remembered for one of the biggest collapses in sports history. More specifically, I'm sure they did it all to spite you. I think I heard A-Rod and Jeter going over it with Ruben before game six.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Ok, Sault. KingPK warned you. Take it to the other thread.

 

EDIT: You too Chong.

[Mik 0]

I see one little piece of info Gammons mentioned that most might ignore, but shouldn't. Jose Capellan is a Braves farm hand, he throws 100 mph. He's 23 and has thrown even harder since Tommy John surgery in 2001. He will start the season as the 4 or 5 most likely - but I have a sneaking feeling he'll be one of the reasons the Braves stay in contention AGAIN.

[the max 0]

I hope the Marlins can get their pitching back on track for next season. There were times this year that it was really bad watching Beckett struggle through starts, Burnett walk a bunch while striking out a bunch, etc. Dontrell is still a bright spot though, and he's a great guy in person.

 

Juan Pierre is a fun and exciting player, imo, but I don't crunch numbers, so I don't know what his deal is. Same with Castillo.

 

If they can get their shit together, they could make a run at Atlanta. Could.

[Guest Anglesault]

I see one little piece of info Gammons mentioned that most might ignore, .

I think most have started to ignore Gammons in general

[Mik 0]

Castillo's contract is going to end up costing the Marlins in the long run - his production will drop huge by the end of it. It's already starting. The Marlins have another OF who is in the Juan Pierre prototype - his name is Eric Reed and he's currently doing quite well in the AFL. That doesn't help with 2B though.

 

As for Pierre - I love him. Hardcore sabrmetricians will probably say that he doesn't walk enough for a lead off hitter and they're probably right. However, he lead the NL in hits - didn't miss an inning and lead the league in at bats. Aside from his celebratory rap, he's been nothing but good news since Florida got him.

 

I think this is the year Beckett pulls it all together. I tell myself this every year, but he's TOO talented for it to not happen one of these years. As for Burnett - after his first few rocky outings he was quite spectacular until he got injured again at the end of the season. I think he'll put up a great year. And Dontrelle - 9 IP, 3 H one night and 4 IP, 7 ER the next. I doubt that will ever change.

 

From other boards I read the big rumor is that the Marlins are after Pedro. I don't like it, personally. Others are thinking they can land Beltran - but I think they are dreaming. I'm hoping that everyone passes on Carlos Delgado and the Marlins can get him really cheap. The key to their success is a left handed power bat in the middle of the lineup, and Jeremy Hermida is a year and change away from the show.

 

The Marlins will contend again next year.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Like KingPk stated, no more Red Sox/Yankees bitching or flaming in this topic. If you have something, take it to hardcore discussion.

[The Czech Republic 0]

So where do you guys think Mark Grudzielanek will land?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Man, I wish Griffey could just be healthy for a few years. I miss watching him play.

 

I like Griffey a lot as well but at this point the Reds could do a lot with the almost 9 million he makes a year. The money that Graves and Griffey make is around 15 million which could be used much better.

 

I think a good bat mixed in with Dunn, Kearns, Pena and Casey could make them a great lineup. Then with the rest of the money they could probably sign several upgrades for the starting rotation and bullpen.