11 States ban gay marriage

[Guest Loss]

Let me share my personal experience here. Perhaps it will allow some of you to see where I'm coming from and why I believe what I believe.

 

I was raised in a Baptist church and many Sundays, the issue of homosexuality would come up. We were told that these people wanted to molest our children and our pastor fondly remembered when America was morally stronger, and gays were taken out back and horsewhipped.

 

Around the time I was 13, I started having thoughts and even before that, I had sneaking suspicions that I was gay. And an incredible amount of guilt took over me, because I was privately afraid that I was turning into one of these people that wanted to destroy America, and I hated myself all through my teen years for it because no matter how much I prayed, no matter how much I tried, the thoughts wouldn't go away. I felt dirty.

 

I was picked on a lot through high school, and looking back, I'd probably pick on me too. I was the only guy in Choir. I was a total yearbook geek. I was completely uninterested in sports. All of my friends were girls, and I liked giving them advice about their boyfriends and going shopping with them.

 

I should have come out sooner than I did, but I didn't.

 

These were all very clear, very defined aspects of me, and because homosexuality is often accompanied by non-stereotypical gender behavior, I have strong theories that it's genetic. It's a gender issue for some, and those are usually the ones who have operations to change their sex. It's a sexual issue for more, myself included.

 

I never, ever, ever chose to be gay. I chose to be straight. THAT was a choice, and it was a lousy one. It wasn't meant to be. I was who I was. Sure, I could have lived a heterosexual life. I'm sure the woman of my manufactured dreams was out there somewhere just longing to be married to a closet case. I would have still been gay. I could have had sex with every woman from here to London. I still would have been gay. It's a fundamental thing about me. It has nothing to do with my actions. That's why it's not a choice. If I would have had a choice in the matter, I would have been straight. It would have been much easier.

 

Because I've been through this personally and know, with every fiber of my being, that I did not make a choice to *be* gay, I am totally comfortable in my own skin, and I take it personally when someone who I might normally respect opposes gay marriage or equal rights for me. AMikeSC once said that "who you fuck" doesn't entitle you to special rights. I would agree with that. "Who I choose to be partnered to" does entitle me to EQUAL rights in a democracy though. Not special rights, equal rights.

 

Anyone who has been through this, even those like me who find it to be one of their least defining characteristics, will find themselves getting passionate about this issue if they're true to themselves. There are some gays who don't support gay marriage, or who are Republican. I've been there, as I was once the same way. I tend to believe that those people hate homosexuals, despite being homosexuals. I know; I've been there.

 

I don't know if this is even going to end up being pertinent to the discussion, but considering that I've been out for nearly six years now and have lived in ARKANSAS of all places my entire life, I know what it's like to feel discrimination. And every time I see a red state on that map, or see another state passing a marriage amendment, I feel like that 13-year old boy again, helpless and not sure what to say or think.

 

So, I hope that explains my disposition.

[Guest Loss]

The Bible CLEARLY states that one must love the sinner, even if they oppose the sin.

-=Mike

The Bible also states that we shouldn't prizefight, but wanna take a wager on how many Christians were at the Red Sox game? It also says women shouldn't cut their hair, but I don't see constitutional amendments starting to ban female haircuts. It also says to not eat pork, but pork is perfectly legal.

 

You'll notice those things are all mentioned in the Old Testament. That's the same place where homosexuality is mentioned. Christians have stopped practicing all the Old Testament laws except the homosexual one. It doesn't make sense.

[Guest MikeSC]

Your preacher as a child was a fucking idiot who clearly went against the official stance of EVERY CHRISTIAN GROUP out there. Again, it'd be like me painting all gays by the actions of the twats at the gay pride parades that do a bang-up job of setting the gay rights movement back a couple of decades everytime they appear.

 

And there are going to be fucktards no matter what.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

The Bible also states that we shouldn't prizefight, but wanna take a wager on how many Christians were at the Red Sox game? It also says women shouldn't cut their hair, but I don't see constitutional amendments starting to ban female haircuts. It also says to not eat pork, but pork is perfectly legal.

 

You'll notice those things are all mentioned in the Old Testament. That's the same place where homosexuality is mentioned. Christians have stopped practicing all the Old Testament laws except the homosexual one. It doesn't make sense.

The Bible never once states that homosexual sex is OK. It ALSO speaks out against pre-marital sex and the Church is still QUITE vehement against that.

 

The Church, though, doesn't hate the people who engage in pre-marital sex.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

I'm amazed that more people voted against banning gay marriage in than voted for John Kerry in Utah. Now that's ticket-splitting!

 

(and yeah.. the anti-Civil Union stuff could have helped surge the No side to 34%)

 

Have we resolved how exactly having formal marriages became so desirable? it's due to some sort of benefits, I think.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Your preacher as a child was a fucking idiot who clearly went against the official stance of EVERY CHRISTIAN GROUP out there. Again, it'd be like me painting all gays by the actions of the twats at the gay pride parades that do a bang-up job of setting the gay rights movement back a couple of decades everytime they appear.

 

And there are going to be fucktards no matter what.

-=Mike

Unfortunately, there are a huge number of us that think and act like that. It may be a little more subtle, but just bring up the subject and watch the tempers start to flare. And I don't see how my side being wrong is made any better because the other side is wrong too.

[Guest Loss]

Your preacher as a child was a fucking idiot who clearly went against the official stance of EVERY CHRISTIAN GROUP out there. Again, it'd be like me painting all gays by the actions of the twats at the gay pride parades that do a bang-up job of setting the gay rights movement back a couple of decades everytime they appear.

 

And there are going to be fucktards no matter what.

-=Mike

What happens at these events that's so horrible? Dancing on floats? Drag queens. I don't see how there's anything morally wrong to get upset about there.

 

I probably view kids being at gun shows the same way you view gay pride events.

[Guest MikeSC]

Your preacher as a child was a fucking idiot who clearly went against the official stance of EVERY CHRISTIAN GROUP out there. Again, it'd be like me painting all gays by the actions of the twats at the gay pride parades that do a bang-up job of setting the gay rights movement back a couple of decades everytime they appear.

 

And there are going to be fucktards no matter what.

          -=Mike

What happens at these events that's so horrible? Dancing on floats? Drag queens. I don't see how there's anything morally wrong to get upset about there.

 

I probably view kids being at gun shows the same way you view gay pride events.

Ever SEEN the guys parading around in BUTT-less chaps and the like?

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

Ever SEEN the guys parading around in BUTT-less chaps and the like?

-=Mike

Sure. It's all in fun. It's only weird because society has deemed it weird.

[Guest MikeSC]

Ever SEEN the guys parading around in BUTT-less chaps and the like?

        -=Mike

Sure. It's all in fun. It's only weird because society has deemed it weird.

No, it's weird because it's fucking weird. The entire thing is a disgrace.

 

Also throw in that NAMBLA is a none-too-quiet partner in your side's arguments and you have a problem.

-=Mike

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

After reading Loss's story, now I am totally and utterly convinced...

 

... Loss is working us. I mean, going shopping with girlfriends? Giving them advice on boys? Jesus christ...

[Guest Loss]

No, it's weird because it's fucking weird. The entire thing is a disgrace.

 

Also throw in that NAMBLA is a none-too-quiet partner in your side's arguments and you have a problem.

-=Mike

You have a giant stick up your ass. For me to say that to someone else, considering how much of a prude I am, is a strong statement.

 

 

I know nothing of NAMBLA, actually.

[Guest Loss]

After reading Loss's story, now I am totally and utterly convinced...

 

... Loss is working us. I mean, going shopping with girlfriends? Giving them advice on boys? Jesus christ...

If it was an angle, it would be worthy of YOU. I'm not that good.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I would have thrown in a late night romantic encounter with a camp counsellor named Troy. Oh, that misty night....

 

I'm with Mike on the buttless chaps issue. Vote NO to Gay Rights for Cowboy/Biker/Domination outfits. Or anyones, really.

[Guest Loss]

I would have thrown in a late night romantic encounter with a camp counsellor named Troy. Oh, that misty night....

 

I'm with Mike on the buttless chaps issue. Vote NO to Gay Rights for Cowboy/Biker/Domination outfits. Or anyones, really.

Now I know what to get the board for Christmas. You could all stand a liberation or two.

 

-- Loss, who has never worn assless chaps, or any other chaps for that matter

[Special K 0]

Moreover, I believe all chaps are assless and crotchless. They are worn over the pants. Therefore please refrain from the phrase 'assless chaps', as it is redundant.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Aren't all chaps assless? Aren't they just intended to cover the front of the jeans? These guys just forget the jeans.

 

Edited to say: That guy beat me to it.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

There are perfectly acceptable people that are gay

Who are you, Scott Keith?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Clearly, I am not as familiar with the chaps society as some here. Clearly.

 

Loss, if you give me chaps, or rainbow wigs, or a tight, lime green, beaded dress that hugs the hips oh so gently and sensually that it makes feel like you are wearing a summers night, I will wish something that rhymes with Beth on you!

[Special K 0]

I like that phrasing.

 

'Well, I figured I'd go on a morning ride around the ranch. Put on my hat. Put on my shirt. Put on my chaps. Couldn't figger why everyone was screaming and pointing at me, well wouldn't you know it? I done forgot my jeans!

 

EDIT: You've never seen a western, Rudo?

[Guest Loss]

There are perfectly acceptable people that are gay

Who are you, Scott Keith?

Fo' real. Am I a ****3/4 gay person?

[Guest Loss]

Clearly, I am not as familiar with the chaps society as some here. Clearly.

 

Loss, if you give me chaps, or rainbow wigs, or a tight, lime green, beaded dress that hugs the hips oh so gently and sensually that it makes feel like you are wearing a summers night, I will wish something that rhymes with Beth on you!

Thanks, but I already have meth.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

My Brother-in-law wore some cowskin chaps at Halloween. I think I'll go get them and try the around the house tonight sans-jeans. See what the wife thinks.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I like that phrasing.

 

'Well, I figured I'd go on a morning ride around the ranch. Put on my hat. Put on my shirt. Put on my chaps. Couldn't figger why everyone was screaming and pointing at me, well wouldn't you know it? I done forgot my jeans!

 

EDIT: You've never seen a western, Rudo?

A few. But I never got the urge to check out their asses to see how the chaps were made. I never thought of John Wayne that way... now, that Kevin Costner... yee. haw.

[Guest Loss]

I like that phrasing.

 

'Well, I figured I'd go on a morning ride around the ranch. Put on my hat. Put on my shirt. Put on my chaps. Couldn't figger why everyone was screaming and pointing at me, well wouldn't you know it? I done forgot my jeans!

 

EDIT: You've never seen a western, Rudo?

A few. But I never got the urge to check out their asses to see how the chaps were made. I never thought of John Wayne that way... now, that Kevin Costner... yee. haw.

You KNOW you wanted him to take you out in the field of dreams?

 

(If you build it, they really do come.)

 

[Special K 0]

Whatever, Loss. You used a chinlock once, and the audience didn't really buy the reason for your 'gay turn', (You turned gay because that's just who you are? Couldn't the writers come up with anything better?)hurting the crowd heat.

 

You're ****1/2 star gay person AT BEST. But I bet Benoit could get ***** of gay out of you.

[Guest Loss]

As an aside, thank you to everyone in this thread, Mike and SP included, for keeping the discussion civil. I'm also glad we have told a few jokes at this point. I needed that, considering I've been a little down since last night and I'm surviving on three hours of sleep.

[Special K 0]

I don't need to be specifically looking at an actor's ass to notice that they're wearing crotchless leather Hammer pants with tassles on them.

[AndrewTS 0]

I agree with Loss. I'm a Christian, and at the very least I think gays should have civil unions if they want, with identical rights to a married couple. It doesn't affect me one way or another, and it doesn't even conflict with my beliefs. I think there's plenty of room to be a Christian who loves his gay friends in a platonic manner and believes in evolution.

 

Kerry and Bush having *identical* stances on the issue (both are opposed to gay marriage, but support civil unions) certainly didn't help, though.

 

I needed that, considering I've been a little down since last night and I'm surviving on three hours of sleep.

 

Get a good rest. I had a car accident this Monday and it may end up needing to be totalled, all because I fell asleep at the wheel. It's not worth the risk.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I was just thinking about it. You know, the thing that really frightens me about this is that one-fifth of the states eagerly approved these measures, by double digit numbers.

 

Combine this with the GOP taking even more of Congress and it's very real that Mr. Madison's document will have a gay marriagement amendmend affecting every state nationwide. We've taken comfort so far that the requried number of states wouldn't pass for it, but what do you think now?