Let's contain the liberal post-election hysteria

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Link

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH...

 

No Surrender

By PAUL KRUGMAN

 

President Bush isn't a conservative. He's a radical - the leader of a coalition that deeply dislikes America as it is. Part of that coalition wants to tear down the legacy of Franklin Roosevelt, eviscerating Social Security and, eventually, Medicare. Another part wants to break down the barriers between church and state. And thanks to a heavy turnout by evangelical Christians, Mr. Bush has four more years to advance that radical agenda.

 

Democrats are now, understandably, engaged in self-examination. But while it's O.K. to think things over, those who abhor the direction Mr. Bush is taking the country must maintain their intensity; they must not succumb to defeatism.

 

This election did not prove the Republicans unbeatable. Mr. Bush did not win in a landslide. Without the fading but still potent aura of 9/11, when the nation was ready to rally around any leader, he wouldn't have won at all. And future events will almost surely offer opportunities for a Democratic comeback.

 

I don't hope for more and worse scandals and failures during Mr. Bush's second term, but I do expect them. The resurgence of Al Qaeda, the debacle in Iraq, the explosion of the budget deficit and the failure to create jobs weren't things that just happened to occur on Mr. Bush's watch. They were the consequences of bad policies made by people who let ideology trump reality.

 

Those people still have Mr. Bush's ear, and his election victory will only give them the confidence to make even bigger mistakes.

 

So what should the Democrats do?

 

One faction of the party is already calling for the Democrats to blur the differences between themselves and the Republicans. Or at least that's what I think Al From of the Democratic Leadership Council means when he says, "We've got to close the cultural gap." But that's a losing proposition.

 

Yes, Democrats need to make it clear that they support personal virtue, that they value fidelity, responsibility, honesty and faith. This shouldn't be a hard case to make: Democrats are as likely as Republicans to be faithful spouses and good parents, and Republicans are as likely as Democrats to be adulterers, gamblers or drug abusers. Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the country; blue states, on average, have lower rates of out-of-wedlock births than red states.

 

But Democrats are not going to get the support of people whose votes are motivated, above all, by their opposition to abortion and gay rights (and, in the background, opposition to minority rights). All they will do if they try to cater to intolerance is alienate their own base.

 

Does this mean that the Democrats are condemned to permanent minority status? No. The religious right - not to be confused with religious Americans in general - isn't a majority, or even a dominant minority. It's just one bloc of voters, whom the Republican Party has learned to mobilize with wedge issues like this year's polarizing debate over gay marriage.

 

Rather than catering to voters who will never support them, the Democrats - who are doing pretty well at getting the votes of moderates and independents - need to become equally effective at mobilizing their own base.

 

In fact, they have made good strides, showing much more unity and intensity than anyone thought possible a year ago. But for the lingering aura of 9/11, they would have won.

 

What they need to do now is develop a political program aimed at maintaining and increasing the intensity. That means setting some realistic but critical goals for the next year.

 

Democrats shouldn't cave in to Mr. Bush when he tries to appoint highly partisan judges - even when the effort to block a bad appointment fails, it will show supporters that the party stands for something. They should gear up for a bid to retake the Senate or at least make a major dent in the Republican lead. They should keep the pressure on Mr. Bush when he makes terrible policy decisions, which he will.

 

It's all right to take a few weeks to think it over. (Heads up to readers: I'll be starting a long-planned break next week, to work on a economics textbook. I'll be back in January.) But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it.

[Guest MikeSC]

Kerry Won. . .

Greg Palast

November 04, 2004

 

Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes. In the United States, about 3 percent of votes cast are voided—known as “spoilage” in election jargon—because the ballots cast are inconclusive. Drawing on what happened in Florida and studies of elections past, Palast argues that if Ohio’s discarded ballots were counted, Kerry would have won the state. Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of 247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes plus the 155,000 provisional ballots. So far there's no indication that Palast's hypothesis will be tested because only the provisional ballots are being counted.

 

Greg Palast, contributing editor to Harper's magazine, investigated the manipulation of the vote for BBC Television's Newsnight. The documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," based on his New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, has been released this month on DVD .

 

Kerry won. Here are  the facts.

 

I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad.  But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.

 

Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. At 1:05 a.m. Wednesday morning, CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent.  The exit polls were later combined with—and therefore contaminated by—the tabulated results, ultimately becoming a mirror of the apparent actual vote. [To read about the skewing of exit polls to conform to official results, click here .] Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.

 

So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

 

Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted. [see TomPaine.com, "An Election Spoiled Rotten,"  November 1.]

 

Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old and new.

 

The election in Ohio was not decided by the voters but by something called "spoilage." Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote.

 

Whose Votes Are Discarded?

 

And not all votes spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African-American and minority precincts. (To learn more, click here.)

 

We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes.  In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times.  Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here .)

 

And here's the key: Florida is terribly typical. The majority of ballots thrown out (there will be nearly 2 million tossed out from Tuesday's election) will have been cast by African American and other minority citizens.

 

So here we go again. Or, here we don't go again. Because unlike last time, Democrats aren't even asking Ohio to count these cards with the not-quite-punched holes (called "undervotes" in the voting biz). Nor are they demanding we look at the "overvotes" where voter intent may be discerned.

 

Ohio is one of the last states in America to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, “the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.”

 

But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. When asked if he feared being this year's Katherine Harris, Blackwell noted that Ms. Fix-it's efforts landed her a seat in Congress.

 

Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss—that's 110,000 votes—overwhelmingly Democratic.

 

The Impact Of Challenges

 

First and foremost, Kerry was had by chads. But the Democrat wasn't punched out by punch cards alone. There were also the 'challenges.' That's a polite word for the Republican Party of Ohio's use of an old Ku Klux Klan technique: the attempt to block thousands of voters of color at the polls. In Ohio, Wisconsin and Florida, the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws—almost never used—allowing party-designated poll watchers to finger individual voters and demand they be denied a ballot. The Ohio courts were horrified and federal law prohibits targeting of voters where race is a factor in the challenge. But our Supreme Court was prepared to let Republicans stand in the voting booth door.

 

In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots—a kind of voting placebo—which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

 

Enchanted State's Enchanted Vote

 

Now, on to New Mexico, where a Kerry plurality—if all votes are counted—is more obvious still. Before the election, in TomPaine.com, I wrote, "John Kerry is down by several thousand votes in New Mexico, though not one ballot has yet been counted."

 

How did that happen? It's the spoilage, stupid; and the provisional ballots.

 

CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes. Again, the network total added up to that miraculous, and non-existent, '100 percent' of ballots cast.

 

New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts—Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin.

 

Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.'

 

Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the "Little Texas" area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush "won" there 68 percent to 31 percent.

 

I spoke with Chaves' Republican county clerk before the election, and he told me that this huge spoilage rate among Hispanics simply indicated that such people simply can't make up their minds on the choice of candidate for president. Oddly, these brown people drive across the desert to register their indecision in a voting booth.

 

Now, let's add in the effect on the New Mexico tally of provisional ballots.

 

"They were handing them out like candy," Albuquerque journalist Renee Blake reported of provisional ballots. About 20,000 were given out. Who got them?

 

Santiago Juarez who ran the "Faithful Citizenship" program for the Catholic Archdiocese in New Mexico, told me that "his" voters, poor Hispanics, whom he identified as solid Kerry supporters, were handed the iffy provisional ballots. Hispanics were given provisional ballots, rather than the countable kind "almost religiously," he said, at polling stations when there was the least question about a voter's identification. Some voters, Santiago said, were simply turned away.

 

Your Kerry Victory Party

 

So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry—if we count all the votes.

 

But that won't happen. Despite the Democratic Party's pledge, the leadership this time gave in to racial disenfranchisement once again. Why? No doubt, the Democrats know darn well that counting all the spoiled and provisional ballots will require the cooperation of Ohio's Secretary of State, Blackwell. He will ultimately decide which spoiled and provisional ballots get tallied. Blackwell, hankering to step into Kate Harris' political pumps, is unlikely to permit anything close to a full count. Also, Democratic leadership knows darn well the media would punish the party for demanding a full count.

 

What now? Kerry won, so hold your victory party. But make sure the shades are down: it may be become illegal to demand a full vote count under PATRIOT Act III.

 

I used to write a column for the Guardian papers in London. Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failure—a second time—to count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php

This thread will get real long, real quick.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

He wrote for the Guardian? Get the hell out of here...

[Guest MikeSC]

We progressives are horrified, as well we should be

E.J. Dionne says Democrats are rightly aghast at the tactics that led to Bush's re-election. It's high time to organize and fight back

By E.J. DIONNE

 

Don't mourn. Organize.

ADVERTISEMENT

 

OK, we can mourn a little first. The punch in the stomach for blue Americans singing the blues was George W. Bush's popular vote lead of more than 3.5 million.

 

Let's be honest: We are aghast at the success of a campaign based on vicious personal attacks, the exploitation of strong religious feelings and an effort to create the appearance of strong leadership that would do Hollywood proud. We are alarmed that so many of our fellow citizens could look the other way and not hold Bush accountable for utter incompetence in Iraq and for untruths spoken in defense of the war. We are amazed that a majority was not concerned about heaping a huge debt burden on our children just to give large tax breaks to the rich.

 

And we are disgusted that an effort consciously designed to divide the country did exactly that — and won. With all his failures, Bush could not count on a whole lot more than 51 percent. Karl Rove and company calculated perfectly, organized painstakingly, greatly increased conservative turnout and produced a country divided just their way.

 

The opposition should not crawl into a hole or be silent about these things. A decent respect for the outcome of an election never requires free citizens to cower before a temporarily dominant majority. There is, on the contrary, an obligation to stay engaged in a battle that, as John Edwards says, rages on.

 

Begin with the facts: A 51-48 percent victory is not a mandate. Even Democrats have talked about their party being confined to an "enclave." Enclave? Blue America includes the entire Northeast, all of the West Coast but for Alaska, and much of the upper Midwest.

 

If Kerry had switched a point and a half in the popular vote and roughly 70,000 votes in Ohio, we'd be talking about the Republican "enclave." Rove's strategy has largely confined the GOP to the South and the Mountain West, rural America and the outer suburbs. Two nearly equal sides are engaged today, as they were on Tuesday, in a long-term struggle to make inroads into the other's patch.

 

As someone who has been arguing for years that liberals should show more respect for people of faith, I'm happy that more Democrats are now saying the same. But the postelection talk is much too facile. Most of the voters who cast ballots for Bush because of abortion, stem cell research or gay marriage won't suddenly switch sides because Democratic candidates pepper their speeches with prayers and a few more "God bless yous."

 

What's required is a sustained and intellectually serious effort by religious moderates and progressives to insist that social justice and inclusion are "moral values" and that war and peace are "life issues." As my wife and I prepared our three kids for school the day after the day after, we shared our outrage that we in Blue America are cast as opponents of "family values" simply because we don't buy the right wing's agenda. No political faction can be allowed to assert a monopoly on the family.

 

Bush will claim a "mandate" for a Social Security privatization plan whose costs he never discussed and for a "tax reform" proposal he never described. Radical efforts to destroy the achievements of progressive government should not be undertaken on the basis of a slim majority. The word "reform" should not be hijacked as a cover for whatever the president wants to do to favor the interests that support him. Democrats should never fear to negotiate, but history will damn those in their ranks who confuse negotiation with capitulation.

 

An administration given to hubris will have to be checked by institutions outside what is likely to be a compliant Congress. This is no time for the independent media to be intimidated by trumped-up charges of liberal bias. Moderate Republicans will have to find the courage to say publicly what many of them say privately about this administration's habit of overreach and the excesses of right-wing legislative leaders.

 

Kerry, in his poignant concession speech, said we should now be united. We are united against terrorists, in support of our troops and in the hope of a decent outcome in Iraq. But the burden for achieving national unity is on a president who could manage a narrow victory only by savagely trashing his opponent.

 

On Wednesday, Bush told those who voted against him: "I will do all I can to deserve your trust." Mr. President, I truly hope you realize how much work you have to do.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/e...outlook/2885135

I wipe my BUTT with Dionne's thoughts.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Odd how Big Media never said Clinton had to "reach out" even when he never got 50+ percent of the popular vote...

[Guest Vitamin X]

When will the left finally realize exit polls have now proven to be the most WORTHLESS FUCKING THING EVER?

[Guest MikeSC]

Odd how Big Media never said Clinton had to "reach out" even when he never got 50+ percent of the popular vote...

He had a "mandate" --- "mandate", of course, meaning the support of the MSM.

When will the left finally realize exit polls have now proven to be the most WORTHLESS FUCKING THING EVER?

Actually, exit polls are, usually, the most accurate things in the world. THESE polls, initially, were based solely on Kerry camp numbers.

 

Exit polls used to be insanely accurate. They are now useless do to this election.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

E.J. Dionne says Democrats are rightly aghast at the tactics that led to Bush's re-election.

 

E.J. Dionne is an ass-clown.

 

So I guess saying the President is out to supress millions of black voters is A-OK?...

[Guest MikeSC]

E.J. Dionne says Democrats are rightly aghast at the tactics that led to Bush's re-election.

 

E.J. Dionne is an ass-clown.

 

So I guess saying the President is out to supress millions of black voters is A-OK?...

That was one of the nicer things said about Bush.

-=Mike

...I love the belief that ONLY Fox is "biased"...

[Guest macheteofodin]

So we don't have to worry about the Christian right influencing our government?

[Guest MikeSC]

So we don't have to worry about the Christian right influencing our government?

They aren't now.

 

Ask a Christian conservative and they'll be more than happy to bitch.

-=Mike

[The Czech Republic 0]

the exit polls are accurate.

the exit polls are accurate.

 

the exit polls are accurate.

 

the exit polls are accurate.

 

the exit polls are accurate.

 

Well....my head asplode

[Guest MikeSC]

I love that polls before the election are ridiculous --- but the chances of the exit polls being off is just beyond the pale.

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

Umm, is it just me, or is it the CONSERVATIVES of this board, that can't get over the fact that George Bush won?

[Guest MikeSC]

Umm, is it just me, or is it the CONSERVATIVES of this board, that can't get over the fact that George Bush won?

Nah. We expected it. We're not the ones claiming there was no mandate, or that we want to leave America, or the like. That is the left.

 

This is simply to laugh at their silliness. Deal with it.

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

Umm, is it just me, or is it the CONSERVATIVES of this board, that can't get over the fact that George Bush won?

Nah. We expected it. We're not the ones claiming there was no mandate, or that we want to leave America, or the like. That is the left.

 

This is simply to laugh at their silliness. Deal with it.

-=Mike

Well then stop spreading their voice and ill will for more to read.

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

Christ, even I know the exit polls got fucked up. Initially, the sample size was between 60-70 percent female, throwing 'em all at Kerry. But also, most of the exit poll sample sizes are too small to dictate the actual election. You'd need a solid 1,000-2,000 with a complete, even spread across the state, not just in say, Cleveland.

 

Whatever. I'm running in 2008. My campaign slogan:

 

Drinking For a Better America

 

I have been endorsed by Emerson College alum Denis Leary.

 

--Ryan

...who's drinking away his election misery while enjoying the company of his new girlfriend...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Aliens possessed 51% of the voters and made them vote for Bush. Everyone really wanted to vote for Kerry.

[CBright7831 0]

Moby

 

Last Reminder

11/1/2004 - New York City

 

it's the last day of the presidential campaign.

here's my one last reminder of some of the issues:

1-president bush failed to capture osama bin laden, taking troops from afghanistan and sending them to iraq.

 

2-the war in iraq was undertaken because bush claimed that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction and contact with al-qaeda.

we now know that iraq had neither.

 

3-the war in iraq has cost:

a-100,000 iraqi lives

b-over 1,000 american lives

c-$200 billion dollars

 

4-president bush is the first president in 70 years to preside over a loss of jobs. in the last 3 1/2 years he has lost 1.5 million american jobs.

 

5-5 million americans have lost their health care in the last 3 1/2 years.

 

6-president bush has created both the largest federal deficit and the largest federal government in the history of the united states

 

7-america's standing in the world is the lowest that it's ever been

 

i just want people to remember which issues are at stake in this election, and what president bush has done in the last 3 1/2 years.

for the life of me i really don't know how any person could vote for president bush as he has, by all objective criteria, made america poorer, less safe, and less respected.

-moby

 

Make A Prediction

11/2/2004 - New York City

 

ok, i'm going to go out on a very shaky limb and make a prediction...

i think that john kerry is going to win, and i think that he's going to win by a healthy margin.

the only variables that could prevent him from winning are voter suppression in the form of:

1-corrupted diebold machines

2-illegally manipulated voter rolls(as we saw in florida in 2000)

3-voter intimidation(as the republicans have been doing in ohio and florida)

but i still think that john kerry is going to win, probably by at least 500,000 votes in the popular vote, and i think that he even has a chance to win all of the important swing states(pennsylvania, ohio, michigan, florida).

the polling puts bush and kerry neck-and-neck.

but, as i said a long time ago, polling is flawed and skews conservative due to:

a-not polling on cell phones

and

b-statistically putting more weight on people who've voted in the past.

 

it's still anyone's race, and everybody MUST vote, but my prediction is that john kerry will win a clear and decisive victory.

then we can begin trying bush and cheney and rumsfeld for treason and crimes against humanity...

 

The Election

11/3/2004 - New York City

 

if/when bush wins...(and who knows...it's 4 a.m..maybe john kerry will win...

but right now things look kind of bush-y. so i write this assuming that bush has won the election.)

well, he won.

america has chosen their president.

we might disagree, but they've chosen their president.

some of us might long for a secession wherein certain parts of the country declare their sovereign autonomy, but given our current state of quasi-united states, well, bush won.

tonight i realized that although america is possessed of a lot of progressive people, america is essentially a right-wing republican country.

we might resist this fact, but it is a fact.

it's not a fact in manhattan.

it's not a fact in l.a or san francisco.

but for 100+ million people it's a fact.

americans have made their choice.

we might not necessarily agree with their choice, but we do have to accept that the choice was made democratically, and without coercion.

and now we ask...what now?

with another 4 years of a republican president/senate/house, well...what do they want?

the right-wing have re-asserted their dominance.

what do they want?

i do hope that the democrats in the house and senate do their best to impose sane restrictions upon the more extreme tendencies of the newly empowered right-wing.

we live in a democracy.

and the democracy has spoken.

the vox populii have expressed their will.

and, given the rules by which we all play, we must accept the results of this election.

live and learn.

and may we all learn to recognize that the democratic process doesn't always accomodate our preferences and/or will.

sorry if i sound like a pathetic loser, but, well, we lost.

and now we have to live with our circumstances as they've been presented to us.

the sun will rise tomorrow, and the people who voted for bush will:

a-send their sons/daughters off to war in iraq

b-complain about unemployment

c-lament their lack of health care

d-complain about the high price of prescription drugs

e-complain about a low minimum wage

f-complain about high gas prices/heating oil costs

g-and so on

h-and so on...

the people have made their choice. and now, for better or worse, they have to live with their choice.

i wish the american people and the politicians who rule them: good luck.

really.

bush won. the people in america have chosen him as their elected commander-in-chief. 49% of us might have voted differently, but we lost. let's all hope that these next 4 years are not as divisive and contentious as the last 4 years have been.

good luck to the republicans, for, regardless of our party affiliations, they won and they will rule us for the next 4 years.

moby p.s-but, for what it's worth, i wish the republicans in the house, senate, executive, and judicial branches the best of luck. as i've said, the american people have chosen their elected representatives, now may said representatives lead us with intelligence, wisdom, and discretion. here's hoping...

 

OK, It's Done

11/3/2004 - New York City

 

can someone remind me why secession is not an option at this point?

i mean let's be realistic, we live in a divided country.

can't we have the breakaway republics of 'north-east-istan' and 'pacific-stan'?

wouldn't the red states be happier without us?

we could still travel freely and trade freely with them, but can't we just leave?

then you could have 3 countries:

northeastistan

pacificstan

redstateistan

one other option would be for us to all join the republican party en masse and make it socially liberal and fiscally conservative(as opposed to it's current 'socially puritanical/fiscally insane' status).

 

ok, it's done.

john kerry has seceded.

if you need us, my friends and i will be drunk for the next 4 years.

-moby

 

Dear....

11/4/2004 - New York City

 

'dear rest of america,

can't you please let little old new york city secede from the rest of the nation?

please?

we're very little and you probably wouldn't even notice that we were gone.

please? pretty please?

how about if we buy you guys donkeys?

will you let us secede if we buy each and every person in the rest of the united states a donkey?

you'd like to have your own friendly donkey, wouldn't you?

wouldn't you rather have a friendly donkey than a small insignificant city that no one really likes anyway?

we will be good neighbors, and you can come visit whenever you like(considering you have a valid passport).

again, please?

thank you very much, and i look forward to hearing your response.

-moby'

 

What Do We Do Now?

11/4/2004 - New York City

 

a lot of people have been asking me, 'what do we do now?'

well, my answer is kind of simple and probably disappointing.

we should have fun with our friends, and do good work, and maybe adopt a dog, and eat. eating is good.

in other words, we shouldn't let ourselves get distraught over politics.

yes, america has chosen gw bush as their president.

it's not what we wanted, but that's the way it is.

we can hope that maybe the 2nd bush term will be more moderate than the first(this isn't just me being willfully naive, i do believe that a 2nd bush term might be more moderate because he's not going to up for re-election again so he doesn't have to accomodate the christian right as slavishly as he's done in the 1st term).

we'll see what happens. sorry if i sound like i'm being wishy-washy, i just don't want us all to let ourselves sink into depression over the democratically expressed will of the majority of voting americans.

it is what it is, and being depressed and despondent isn't going to make anything better.

so go out and eat some ice cream and play with a dog and go see a movie with your friends.

the world will go on, don't let yourself get depressed, ok?

moby 

 

Dear Canada

11/4/2004 - New York City

 

'dear canada,

now, more than ever, your neighbor to the south(aka-the blue states)needs you. most of us living in the northern and western parts of the united states don't feel very connected to the rest of the u.s, so can we bring our states and become part of canada?

we have a lot of money and some interesting cities and we promise not to be too much trouble.

the benefits to you:

a-in one fell swoop you can have southern california and new york city! surfing in canada! suddenly the u.n is on canadian soil! broadway is suddenly in canada! you could then say that canada is the birthplace of jazz and hip-hop!

b-money. cold hard cash. the red states in the u.s might have the voting power, but guess who has the money? yup, your friendly neighborhood blue states.

so when/if you accept our offer you will instantly become the richest country in the world! that sounds pretty good, right?

c-karma. accepting this offer will give you more good karma than you'd know what to do with(because you would instantly make 120 million people VERY happy).

so you get warm beaches, tons of cash, and good karma. who can say no to that?

please let us know if you accept the offer. given our enthusiasm to join canada it's safe to say that the details of the offer could probably be worked out in an afternoon.

thank you very much,

moby

p.s-just to put your minds at ease, we do know that we can't bring our assault weapons with us.'

[Guest Anglesault]

The Bush Administration furthered their evil plot by stealing Moby's shift key.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Moby

 

Last Reminder

7-america's standing in the world is the lowest that it's ever been

But those American products are enticing as ever! Mmm!

 

the only variables that could prevent him from winning are voter suppression in the form of:

1-corrupted diebold machines

2-illegally manipulated voter rolls(as we saw in florida in 2000)

3-voter intimidation(as the republicans have been doing in ohio and florida)

4-america doesn't want john kerry in charge

 

it's still anyone's race, and everybody MUST vote, but my prediction is that john kerry will win a clear and decisive victory.

Nice one, Jimmy The Greek. Make yourself scarce come Super Bowl weekend.

 

some of us might long for a secession wherein certain parts of the country declare their sovereign autonomy

That's right, Moby, America is just clamoring for a fucking CIVIL WAR.

 

can someone remind me why secession is not an option at this point?

i mean let's be realistic, we live in a divided country.

Psst! We're more behind Bush than we ever were behind Clinton.

 

ok, it's done.

john kerry has seceded.

Yes. That's what he did. He also bought peanuts and beer from a secession stand.

 

dear rest of america,

can't you please let little old new york city secede from the rest of the nation?

please?

we're very little and you probably wouldn't even notice that we were gone.

please? pretty please?

how about if we buy you guys donkeys?

will you let us secede if we buy each and every person in the rest of the united states a donkey?

you'd like to have your own friendly donkey, wouldn't you?

Dude I fuckin lost you on this one

 

a lot of people have been asking me, 'what do we do now?'

well, my answer is kind of simple and probably disappointing.

we should have fun with our friends, and do good work, and maybe adopt a dog, and eat. eating is good.

Just as long as it's not the flesh of an animal, or the milk of an animal, or the egg of an animal, or something that was observed by an animal...

 

canada shit

I can't take it anymore.

[Guest MikeSC]

Umm, is it just me, or is it the CONSERVATIVES of this board, that can't get over the fact that George Bush won?

Nah. We expected it. We're not the ones claiming there was no mandate, or that we want to leave America, or the like. That is the left.

 

This is simply to laugh at their silliness. Deal with it.

-=Mike

Well then stop spreading their voice and ill will for more to read.

Why should we? It's no skin off my back for them to make asses of themselves.

 

As Rush has said, if somebody is determined to make an ass of themselves, stand back and let them.

 

As for Moby, I'm glad I thought he was one insanely shitty "artist" long before now. He can always do the world a favor and chew on some lead.

-=Mike

...hoping that the Dems don't secede again...

[brokentusk16 0]

Why should we? It's no skin off my back for them to make asses of themselves.

 

As Rush has said, if somebody is determined to make an ass of themselves, stand back and let them.

Well, I'm convinced. Mike is clearly the superior b/c he listens to Rush Limbaugh. Words of wisdom from a truly wise man........................................ok, i'm sorry, I just can't say that with a straight face!

 

I agree with you NoCal, the conservative side on the board is clearly trying to provoke those of us who disagree with them. Just let them have their fun. Besides, they're just so damn cute when they act like this.

 

I mean, come on, RUSH LIMBAUGH! You can't BUY comedy like that!

[Guest MikeSC]

Why should we? It's no skin off my back for them to make asses of themselves.

 

As Rush has said, if somebody is determined to make an ass of themselves, stand back and let them.

Well, I'm convinced. Mike is clearly the superior b/c he listens to Rush Limbaugh. Words of wisdom from a truly wise man........................................ok, i'm sorry, I just can't say that with a straight face!

 

I agree with you NoCal, the conservative side on the board is clearly trying to provoke those of us who disagree with them. Just let them have their fun. Besides, they're just so damn cute when they act like this.

 

I mean, come on, RUSH LIMBAUGH! You can't BUY comedy like that!

No, we conservatives are simply allowing the left to make an ass of itself.

 

Blame YOUR side for producing such material.

 

And, honestly, if you're going to bitch about conservatives "provoking" you --- don't FUCKING DO THE SAME THING YOURSELF, dumbass.

 

What is it with Democrats supporting secession? They did it in 1860 and many want to do it now.

-=Mike

[brokentusk16 0]

No, we conservatives are simply allowing the left to make an ass of itself.

 

Blame YOUR side for producing such material.

 

And, honestly, if you're going to bitch about conservatives "provoking" you --- don't FUCKING DO THE SAME THING YOURSELF, dumbass.

 

What is it with Democrats supporting secession? They did it in 1860 and many want to do it now.

-=Mike

Hey, both sides make asses of themselves and the other mocks them for it, I have nothing against it. The liberals did it to Bush all the time, and the conservatives are doing it to Kerry. What's the big deal?

 

And you're slamming ME for taking a shot at someone on this board? Three words: Pot, kettle, black.

 

And where are you getting this secession talk? Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I haven't heard anybody talking about it except you. If I go anywhere, I'm headed to Canada!

[Guest MikeSC]

No, we conservatives are simply allowing the left to make an ass of itself.

 

Blame YOUR side for producing such material.

 

And, honestly, if you're going to bitch about conservatives "provoking" you --- don't FUCKING DO THE SAME THING YOURSELF, dumbass.

 

What is it with Democrats supporting secession? They did it in 1860 and many want to do it now.

            -=Mike

Hey, both sides make asses of themselves and the other mocks them for it, I have nothing against it. The liberals did it to Bush all the time, and the conservatives are doing it to Kerry. What's the big deal?

 

And you're slamming ME for taking a shot at someone on this board? Three words: Pot, kettle, black.

 

And where are you getting this secession talk? Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I haven't heard anybody talking about it except you. If I go anywhere, I'm headed to Canada!

Read around a bit. It's not exactly a little-mentioned desire.

 

And if you're going to bitch about provocation, don't do the same damned thing.

-=Mike

[brokentusk16 0]

And if you're going to bitch about provocation, don't do the same damned thing.

You don't provoke, I won't provoke, deal?

[MrRant 0]

How about you two get a room and provoke each other till the sun comes up?

[brokentusk16 0]

How about you two get a room and provoke each other till the sun comes up?

LOL! You can just smell the sexual tension, can't you?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Umm, is it just me, or is it the CONSERVATIVES of this board, that can't get over the fact that George Bush won?

 

I'll admit it -- I thought Kerry would win. I'm glad that for the first time in quite a while I was wrong.

 

And I actually created this thread for all you goddamn hippies -- I figured it best to contain all the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH-BUSH-WON-RED-STATES-ARE-STUPID columns that are sure to sprout up in the next week or so to one thread so the CE folder won't be littered with general MikeSC thread titles like "Guess what this buttmunch said?"

 

Jesus, try to do a favor for some people...