bobobrazil1984 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 I think the important thing we're missing here is the effect on our children. We live in a dangerous society and our kids have to know, that if you are attacked with a plastic cup, for your own safety, you absolutely have to chase down the person you believed may have done it, and protect yourself. nobody deserves to be assaulted with a plastic cup. Nobody. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted November 20, 2004 This is my opinion: Fans don't go onto the court and players don't go into the stands. It's as easy as that. If a fan walks on the court he deserves whatever he gets. If a player goes into the stands he should be severely punished. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted November 20, 2004 I think the important thing we're missing here is the effect on our children. We live in a dangerous society and our kids have to know, that if you are attacked with a plastic cup, for your own safety, you absolutely have to chase down the person you believed may have done it, and protect yourself. nobody deserves to be assaulted with a plastic cup. Nobody. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gert T 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 For reference sake the Pacers play 15 games between now and the Christmas day game with the Pistons, and Detroit plays 16 games before then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CBright7831 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 I think the important thing we're missing here is the effect on our children. We live in a dangerous society and our kids have to know, that if you are attacked with a plastic cup, for your own safety, you absolutely have to chase down the person you believed may have done it, and protect yourself. nobody deserves to be assaulted with a plastic cup. Nobody. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Electrifyer 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 BTW... I think the game is up for download here now: http://bt.davkanet.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iliketurtles 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 They are about to show the footage of both the football and basketball games on Fox News if you haven't seen either yet. What a crazy 24 hours in sports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. Anyway, having not seen it yet (Saturday=soccer for us Brits), I won't comment on whever it was right to go into the crowd or not. The one thing that'll be interesting in all this besides suspensions is the knock on effect. Interest has gone up suddenly, but I'd imagine attendance might suffer from this. Parents watching this are going to be a lot more cautious about getting their kids court-side seats, at least for a year or so until everything completely dies down. As for suspension. The nearest thing to this in soccer that I can remember was a player jumping into the crowd and hitting a fan with a karate kick before continuing the attack with punches...and he got an eight month suspension. NBA wise, I remember Rodman doing something back in the 90's to a ref. How long did he get? The NBA might be wise to use that as some sort of measuring stick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Honest question: Why won't the NBA simply ban Artest and Steven Jackson? for life? Their actions crossed numerous lines. Punching fans at random leaves the NBA open to lawsuits and is the greatest PR nightmare imaginable. Beating up a moron who comes onto the court is fair game, IMO (after Seles was stabbed in Germany years ago, athletes can't take chances with fans on the field). But going into the stands to fight is inexcusable. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exslade ZX 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. The security guard, when interviewed and asked, said it was Self Defence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobobrazil1984 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Honest question: Why won't the NBA simply ban Artest and Steven Jackson? for life? Their actions crossed numerous lines. Punching fans at random leaves the NBA open to lawsuits and is the greatest PR nightmare imaginable. but.... but...but... HE was assaulted by a plastic cup!!!!!!!! For his own safety he had to dive in and charge up five rows and wildly grab at the person he thought might have done it! Like I said, nobody deserves the menace of a cup! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. I checked, it is self defense. Some states have rules where if someone points their finger at you and says something you can have them attrested for assault. Throwing something into the face of someone is assault, even if they throw or kick dirt into your face. It's not a high class one, but it is assault. As for the suspensions...whatever. I'm not shocked at all. I won't be shocked if the NBA makes Artest send the man a written apology and the Pistons to give him season tickets. Won't shock me one bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Electrifyer 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. The security guard, when interviewed and asked, said it was Self Defence. Oh... well!... If the security guy said it then that changes EVERYTHING! Boy... I sure am satisfied now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. The security guard, when interviewed and asked, said it was Self Defence. Oh... well!... If the security guy said it then that changes EVERYTHING! Boy... I sure am satisfied now! The police of Detriot have already said it was self defense as well. As for the secruity guy...fuck him. They were laughing until Artest went into the crowd. They were prepared to do NOTHING to the man who threw the bottle. So fuck them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Electrifyer 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 As for the suspensions...whatever. I'm not shocked at all. I won't be shocked if the NBA makes Artest send the man a written apology and the Pistons to give him season tickets. Won't shock me one bit. I'm pretty sure the guy is gonna want more than just an apology. As Quentin Richardson said, that guy's gonna want some "NBA money". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. I checked, it is self defense. Some states have rules where if someone points their finger at you and says something you can have them attrested for assault. Throwing something into the face of someone is assault, even if they throw or kick dirt into your face. It's not a high class one, but it is assault. Well, as I say I'm no law expert, especially American law which changes from state to state obviously. Still, I think even claiming self defence won't help the players in this situation. Fact is, the NBA are gonna be under massive pressure to make an example of the players and not look soft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted November 20, 2004 To everyone claiming self defence, technically wouldn't self defence be only before or during an attack...or if you assumed the attacker was ready to so something else. If someone throws a beer at you but doesn't look like taking the fight on any further, attacking him wouldn't be classed as self defence surely. Admitedly, I'm not up on law, but that's my understanding. The security guard, when interviewed and asked, said it was Self Defence. Do I ask where said guard was when this was all going on? Was he writing his memoirs of the moment rather than actually doing his job? As for the secruity guy...fuck him. They were laughing until Artest went into the crowd. They were prepared to do NOTHING to the man who threw the bottle. So fuck them. Irrelevant. Artest simply had to say to a guard "That guy did this. Toss him out" and they would have done so. He did not. He, instead, went into the stands. The fans have no business on the field of play. By the same token, the players have no business in the stands. Artest is a little bitch who brings the problems upon himself. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted November 20, 2004 As for the suspensions...whatever. I'm not shocked at all. I won't be shocked if the NBA makes Artest send the man a written apology and the Pistons to give him season tickets. Won't shock me one bit. I'm pretty sure the guy is gonna want more than just an apology. As Quentin Richardson said, that guy's gonna want some "NBA money". And he should. More power to him. The NBA is going to let thugs and hoods run the show, this the problem they deal with. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Honest question: Why won't the NBA simply ban Artest and Steven Jackson? for life? Their actions crossed numerous lines. Punching fans at random leaves the NBA open to lawsuits and is the greatest PR nightmare imaginable. but.... but...but... HE was assaulted by a plastic cup!!!!!!!! For his own safety he had to dive in and charge up five rows and wildly grab at the person he thought might have done it! Like I said, nobody deserves the menace of a cup! To the eyes. Course, we can all just forget a little flag in the NFL nearly ended the career of an offensive lineman who was struck in the face with it. But that's ok, it was only a little harmless flag. Nevermind even the smallest of things into your eyes could blind you. Let's just forget that cause it was only a plastic cup so he should be a man. He should accept someone had the possible intent of ending his basketball career and blinding him for life. Assault is assault. Period. Artest made a citizen arrest on his attacker, it was that simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobobrazil1984 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 ^ and he clearly violated a major NBA rule and should be subject to punishment by said rules. The nba rule is very clear. It is that simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 ^ and he clearly violated a major NBA rule and should be subject to punishment by said rules. The nba rule is very clear. It is that simple. Then fine, the NBA needs to also do something to protect their players. Not handcuff their players and say, "no, they are allowed to do that. Take it like a man." The NBA is full of it. They do nothing to protect their players and they are quick as humanly possible to hug the fans and say, "it's ok, the bad man shouldn't have done what any rational human would do...ssssh, it's ok, we'll get you a team jersey." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlwaysPissedOff 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 You're all missing my point. These athletes get paid money to be more mature and responsible than the fans. I am not saying the fans should get off scot free at all. Its just the Pacers had an obligation to act with more class. Well, I guess with that thinking, Eddie Guererro for instance...should have been fired months/years ago? I mean, that ladder match, he just straight decked a fan. A fan who technically...never even touched him. And then, the house show reports of him getting into a fight with a fan...just because he poured beer on him? That's a disgrace...because you know...he's not a normal person...he gets paid a lot of money. The house show example was a good one, but the ladder match one doesn't hold up at all because that fan grabbed the ladder that Eddy was on at the time and almost knocked him off of it. It's basically the same as when Jericho slugged that one guy that took a shot at him back in 2002 on RAW when he was teaming with Undertaker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CBright7831 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 NEW YORK (AP) -- Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson of Indiana and Ben Wallace of Detroit were suspended indefinitely by the NBA on Saturday for taking part in one of the ugliest brawls in U.S. sports history, a fight with fans that commissioner David Stern called ``shocking, repulsive and inexcusable.'' League officials were examining video tapes of Friday night's melee and interviewing witnesses. The NBA issued a statement saying it was reviewing rules and security procedures ``so that fans can continue to attend our games unthreatened by events such as the ones that occurred last night.'' Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- who all threw punches at fans in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game -- were to begin serving their suspensions Saturday night, when Indiana hosted Orlando. Wallace's suspension will begin with the Pistons' next game, at home Sunday night against the Charlotte Bobcats. ``I didn't start it. I just played the game,'' Wallace said Saturday before learning of his suspension. ``The league is going to do whatever they feel needs to be done, and I don't have no problems with that.'' Pacers officials and players did not immediately comment Saturday. Pistons spokesman Tom Wilson said the team plans to use ``playoff-level security'' starting with Sunday's game, doubling the number of armed police and increasing other arena security personnel by about 25 percent. Further action was expected to be taken Sunday by the league office. The brawl was both shocking and violent, with Artest and Jackson bolting into the stands near center court and throwing punches at fans after debris was tossed at the players. Later, fans who came onto the court were punched in the face by Artest and O'Neal. Wallace began the fracas by delivering a hard, two-handed shove to Artest after Wallace was fouled on a drive to the basket with 45.9 seconds remaining. After the three-minute melee ended, the referees called off the remainder of the game. ``This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands, whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games,'' Stern said in his statement. ``Our investigation is ongoing, and I expect it to be completed by tomorrow evening.'' The most recent instance of an NBA player going into the stands and punching a fan happened in February 1995, when Vernon Maxwell of the Houston Rockets pummeled a spectator in Portland. The league suspended him for 10 games and fined him $20,000. Among the harshest non-drug-related penalties in NBA history were a one-year suspension of Latrell Sprewell, later reduced to 68 games, for choking Golden State Warriors coach P.J. Carlesimo at practice. Kermit Washington of the Los Angeles Lakers drew a 60-day (26-game) suspension in 1977 for a punch that broke the jaw of the Houston Rockets' Rudy Tomjanovich during a game, while Dennis Rodman was suspended 11 games for kicking a courtside cameraman in the groin and six games for head-butting a referee. Earlier this month, Artest was benched for two games for asking Pacers Rick Carlisle for time off because of a busy schedule that included promoting a rap album. Artest was suspended twice by the NBA last season, once for leaving the bench during a fracas at a Pacers-Celtics playoff game; the other for elbowing Portland's Derek Anderson. During the 2002-03 season, Artest was suspended five times by the NBA and once by the Pacers for a total of 12 games. Artest also once grabbed a television camera and smashed it to the ground following a loss to the New York Knicks at Madison Square Garden two years ago. ``People are putting all the burden on Artest, and I don't think that's fair,'' Houston coach Jeff Van Gundy said. ``He's an easy target because of all the things he's been through. But some fans have gotten to a point where they think they can do or say anything.'' The melee escalated when Artest stormed into the stands, throwing punches as he climbed over seats. ``He was on top of me, pummeling me,'' fan Mike Ryan of Clarkston said. ``He asked me, 'Did you do it? I said, 'No, man. No!''' Jackson joined Artest in the melee and threw punches at fans, who punched back. Security personnel and ushers tried to break it up. Former Pistons player Rick Mahorn, who was seated courtside as a Detroit radio analyst, tried to stop the brawl in the stands. ``We'll put it all together, take it to the Oakland County Prosecutors Office and have them review it and they'll decide if there are any charges,'' Auburn Hills Deputy Chief Jim Mynsberge said. ``I hope we can do it before Thanksgiving.'' One of the half-dozen people treated for injuries at The Palace was taken to a hospital by ambulance and another sought treatment, police said. ``At this time, we don't have any indication of major injuries,'' Mynsberge said. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oD...ov=ap&type=lgns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Rick Mahorn=Sgt.Slaughter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Rick Mahorn=Sgt.Slaughter Add in Jamaal Tinsley becoming New Jack and it was a wrestling filled night in Detriot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Well, there goes my fantasy team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Rick Mahorn=Sgt.Slaughter Add in Jamaal Tinsley becoming New Jack and it was a wrestling filled night in Detriot. Tinsley was channeling Sid last night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edwin MacPhisto 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Fantastically entertaining fight, but Artest and Jackson deserve at least the whole year off after that. Arrest the jackass fans, yeah, but Artest and Jackson's actions were absolutely unexcusable. What cock-waving dipshits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CBright7831 0 Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Well, there goes my fantasy team Yup. Everyone got suspended indefinitely. Can't say I'm surprised at the least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted November 20, 2004 Artest will have time to promote his rap cd. And don't think these guys don't be charged for assult either. O'Neal should get a year too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
