Let's talk about Trish

[Guest Loss]

The women's title was touched upon in another thread, and it brought up what I think is an interesting point in that the division is really dead, especially with all the cuts decimating the depth of the ones who were actually being pushed as serious workers.

 

However, this thread is about Trish Stratus. I wanted to get a consensus on how you think she's been doing in her heel role since Wrestlemania. I personally think she has become the most fun character on the show. It took her a while to get comfortable on the mic, but she's there now.

 

The problem with Trish right now is that her character is one that has the potential to draw money, but the women's division isn't placed in a position to draw money. So what do you do with her? Well, with Evolution probably splitting up sometime in the next few months, after the HHH/Batista tease culminates and Orton snags the title, I could see a new heel group rising out of the ashes with Trish Stratus as the manager. It would work, and if they give her the face time they gave Stephanie McMahon a few years ago, she'll be a huge success.

 

As a worker, she's improved to a point since coming in four years ago and being expected to be just another pretty face where she's actually taken seriously by fans as a competitor, and while I wouldn't call her a great worker by any means, she worked very hard to get to a point where she's passable. She's proven that she will be the most over face when she's a face and that she will be the most over heel when she's a heel. She has more value to the company than they often let her truly have.

 

WWE has been hesitant to give any woman too big of a push since the ego swellings of Chyna and Sable, but Trish has paid her dues. She's learned to bump, she's worked through injuries, and she has survived a few storylines that have made her look weak and ineffective, most notably barking like a dog for Vince McMahon and having Stephanie dunk her head in mop water repeatedly. I think she's at a point where she can possibly mean more to the overall product with the right company backing.

 

What do you think?

[KingPK 0]

It took WWE a bit to realize that, when Christian got injured, she was just being weighed down by Tomko and they should let her sow her own heel oats, but it has worked well. She is actually helping to get Lita pretty over with this angle they're working, since fans really seem to want Lita to finally pound the shit out of her and take the title. She's taken the vain, stuck-up bitch heel persona and attacked it with gusto.

 

I could see Trish as kind of the "brains" of a new heel supergroup, but who would be in it? Not HHH, I hope.

[MARTYEWR 0]

As a worker, she's improved to a point since coming in four years ago and being expected to be just another pretty face where she's actually taken seriously by fans as a competitor, and while I wouldn't call her a great worker by any means, she worked very hard to get to a point where she's passable. She's proven that she will be the most over face when she's a face and that she will be the most over heel when she's a heel. She has more value to the company than they often let her truly have.

I meant to ask you about this: Do you think she's the best female worker in the company right now? I agree that she's not "great" (not if you compare her to the primes of many Joshi workers), but due to her ability to work a crowd during her matches and having a moveset that, while simple, is very effective and means something, I'd rank her at the top. Many would argue Molly Holly, but while Molly has great athleticism, I find she doesn't make her matches mean something, like Trish does. The same holds water for Victoria, at least during Vicky's face time. Matter of fact, it pains me to admit this, but Lita's a better crowd worker than Molly and Victoria, but of course, can't do shit in the ring unless Trish is holding her hand.

 

I'll comment about the potential of Trish's future later, but I wanted your thoughts on that topic.

[Guest Loss]

I would agree that Trish is the best worker in the women's division, yes. Victoria is probably a close second, with Molly third. Molly has some good spots, but she's a bad actress and is in the most horrible of roles. Not to mention that most of the audience doesn't see her as hot, not only because she has been openly called a fatass on TV, but also because she has short hair, and men typically like long hair.

 

Gail Kim was improving. They should have kept her around.

 

Sorry, this is about Trish. But yes, I would agree that Trish is the best worker in the women's division. Sometimes Victoria outworks her, but most of the time, Trish is better.

[Guest Jason]

Heh trish currently is pretty much the only thing holding the womens division together. With the lame cuts to jazz and gail, there isnt jack for women wrestlers. Molly and vicky have to low credibility it isnt funny. Trish as a heel has been very good IMO. I like how she has taken on a different direction. Sure its the bimbo type role. But sometimes the tried and true works with the right character. One thing I dont like about trish is that stupid chick kick. It is a crappy looking move. Bad enough the bulldog finisher was hokey looking, but it was more beliveable. But the chick kick is crap, she needs a new finisher or stick with the old.

 

But the womens division as a whole is crap, super lita is driving me nuts everytime she has a match with someone. Im sick of the T&A taking the lead role now also. Hate saying but trish is the glue for the raw divas(wrestling wise).

[AndrewTS 0]

I would agree that Trish is the best worker in the women's division, yes. Victoria is probably a close second, with Molly third. Molly has some good spots, but she's a bad actress and is in the most horrible of roles. Not to mention that most of the audience doesn't see her as hot, not only because she has been openly called a fatass on TV, but also because she has short hair, and men typically like long hair.

 

Gail Kim was improving. They should have kept her around.

 

Sorry, this is about Trish. But yes, I would agree that Trish is the best worker in the women's division. Sometimes Victoria outworks her, but most of the time, Trish is better.

Are you a closet heterosexual or something with all the Trish love, Loss?

 

I don't think that Molly's a "bad actor," it's just that she's had all of two characters her entire WWE tenure: "sweet, pure Molly Holly" and "prudish, jealous fat-assed bitch Molly." Not a whole hell of a lot to work with there.

 

Trish was, IMO, AWFUL on the mic just after the heel turn. In general, I never really cared for her heel work at all. When not on the mic, she worked the character just fine, but her mic work comes off as cheesy and fake to me all the time. Of course, part of the blame must be placed on the writers, but I simply can't take it seriously whatsoever.

 

I think she works a lot better as a face, although in either case, her character is so protected and nigh-invincible that only Victoria and Lita are ever considered major rivals, but you know usually among them that Trish will likely prevail.

 

Trish's offense is just fine (although the Stratusfaction, "Matrix Move,", Stratusphere, and That Kick With a Really Stupid Name are more contrived than even most WWE spots), but her selling and bumping are pretty much top notch. When Gail and Molly were teamed up trying to end her career, she took some nasty bumps to sell the story.

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

I think the heel turn has done wonders for Trish, at first I think she struggled a little with the heel role, but now I think she's doing a great job as the whiny, spoiled brat. She's pretty much carrying the Lita feud on her own, not only from the character aspects but by selling all of Lita's offense like death whenever she's in there.

As for the best actual worker in the division, when given the chance, I still think Molly is the best in the company by a fair margin. Molly's done very well, considering she's only allowed to use about a tenth of what she's capable of, heaven forbid if they'd let her do a bit more of her WCW moveset, but then she'd actually be somewhat credible and we can't have that. The one thing I think Molly has, which makes her that little better than Trish and puts her a long way ahead of the rest is that Molly has managed to make some terrible gimmicks work. A good example would be the granny panties/fat ass/prude gimmick, despite being made a joke of every week, she still did the character the very best that she could and made it somewhat decent. Same with the wig angle, combined with the 7 month straight jobbing streak, IMO it basically killed her character. Yet she still managed to make it as good as it could possibly be, with the goofy facial expressions, silly tantrums and such, she did that role a lot better than any other woman could.

So that's what seperates Molly over Victoria, Trish and the rest, not only is she the best worker, but unlike the others who get over due to their gimmicks (be it Lita's whole "punk" thing, Victoria the psycho, Trish the heavily pushed star), Molly gets over in spite of her gimmick, she takes shit from the writers and makes it as good as it can be.

[jester 0]

Trish makes a good heel, but look who the lead face is... Lita. In my mind, she came off looking like the biggest idiot of all during the whole Snitsky/Kane pregnancy thing. A good heel needs a good face to play off of.

 

And Trish's criticisms of Lita are dead on. Heels aren't supposed to be rational or right all the time.

 

As for a female in Evolution, I think that should have gone to Gail Kim. Her submission stuff was working, and if Evo had treated her as the future of women's wrestling (as opposed to a piece of ass or a valet), it would raised the importance of the women's division.

[tominator89 0]

Trish makes a good heel, but look who the lead face is... Lita. In my mind, she came off looking like the biggest idiot of all during the whole Snitsky/Kane pregnancy thing. A good heel needs a good face to play off of.

 

And Trish's criticisms of Lita are dead on. Heels aren't supposed to be rational or right all the time.

 

As for a female in Evolution, I think that should have gone to Gail Kim. Her submission stuff was working, and if Evo had treated her as the future of women's wrestling (as opposed to a piece of ass or a valet), it would raised the importance of the women's division.

But, that's why I think her heel role actually works. She says things about Lita, then proves it, and that makes her character more believeable. I appreciate this approach much more than the usual "I don't like you for no reason" routine.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Trish is the only female with a remotely interesting character. That's the best I can give.

 

Loss is definetly President of the Trish Stratus Fan Club.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Trish is the only female with a remotely interesting character. That's the best I can give.

 

Loss is definetly President of the Trish Stratus Fan Club.

Than I'm copresident or someting. Trish Stratus is also a board member of my Astroboy fan club. How can you not love somebody who can wrestle, has a BUTT that just won't quit, looks after herself in the gym, has video games in her house and paints Maple Leafs on her face when she goes to Toronto games? It doesn't get better than that. She's even the same age I am.

 

 

 

 

WP -- Following Trish Stratus since she first appeared in a Musclemag column. I even love her theme music. It's got that Rockyish feel to it.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

I don't think that Molly's a "bad actor," it's just that she's had all of two characters her entire WWE tenure: "sweet, pure Molly Holly" and "prudish, jealous fat-assed bitch Molly." Not a whole hell of a lot to work with there.

Don't Forget super hero Molly!

[NoCalMike 0]

Trish as a heel works fine as long as you keep the mic out of her hand.

[jester 0]

Trish makes a good heel, but look who the lead face is... Lita.  In my mind, she came off looking like the biggest idiot of all during the whole Snitsky/Kane pregnancy thing.  A good heel needs a good face to play off of.

 

And Trish's criticisms of Lita are dead on.  Heels aren't supposed to be rational or right all the time.

But, that's why I think her heel role actually works. She says things about Lita, then proves it, and that makes her character more believeable. I appreciate this approach much more than the usual "I don't like you for no reason" routine.

It makes sense as character motivation, absolutely.

 

But we're supposed to boo her, and cheer Lita...when it's impossible to justify Lita's actions.

 

That's Trish's problem. She's the top female heel. She's also the top female face.

 

She needs a real cool face female to work against. Not Lita.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I popped big-time for Lita's *awesome* DDT on Trish on Raw Monday. The crowd loved it, too.

[CanadianChick 0]

It makes sense as character motivation, absolutely.

 

But we're supposed to boo her, and cheer Lita...when it's impossible to justify Lita's actions.

 

That's Trish's problem. She's the top female heel. She's also the top female face.

 

She needs a real cool face female to work against. Not Lita.

But Lita is admittingly the most over. And what other faces could Trish work with? Vanilla Victoria? Unless they pull someone from OVW up. Is Jillian Hall any good?

[starvenger 0]

I popped big-time for Lita's *awesome* DDT on Trish on Raw Monday. The crowd loved it, too.

That can partially be attributed to Trish as well. The crowd wants to love Lita, but also they want to see Trish get what's coming to her. Plus, it's the whole "finisher on a legit injured body part" thing.

[Jericholic82 0]

the only problem with her is that they continue to basically describe her as a slut. what slutty thing has she done lately? (besides the mnf parody) sure if you go back to 2001 and the vince mcmahon affair, but in 2004 what? she chose christian over jericho? that makes her a slut ? huh?

 

she is pretty entertaining as a mean spirited heel though. her insults and lines are right on the money about lita(whos the real skank if you think about it in kayfabe terms)

 

 

and yea her house on confidential looked pretty fun and cool.

 

too bad shes from canada

 

 

LMAO JK

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

It makes sense as character motivation, absolutely. 

 

But we're supposed to boo her, and cheer Lita...when it's impossible to justify Lita's actions.

 

That's Trish's problem.  She's the top female heel.  She's also the top female face.

 

She needs a real cool face female to work against.  Not Lita.

But Lita is admittingly the most over. And what other faces could Trish work with? Vanilla Victoria? Unless they pull someone from OVW up. Is Jillian Hall any good?

Jillian Hall is very good, she's by far the best of the OVW women, a long way ahead of Alexis Laree. Jillian's a good worker, plays a great cute babyface and recently has shown some potential as a heel too.

As for who i'd like to see Trish feud with, if they build up some tension between them for a while, i'd like to see a Molly/Trish feud, with Molly returning to her smiling, loveable babyface ways. If Molly was to not only bring back something like her original character, but also bring back her WCW moveset, I think she'd be quite over as a babyface.

[what 0]

Splitting her and Christian up was a fucking stupid idea.

[NoCalMike 0]

I popped big-time for Lita's *awesome* DDT on Trish on Raw Monday.  The crowd loved it, too.

That can partially be attributed to Trish as well. The crowd wants to love Lita, but also they want to see Trish get what's coming to her

*going way off track* A-ha, and you have just successfully figured out how big of a part Raven had in getting DDP monster-over back in the WCW.

[Guest Anglesault]

My one problem. I'm one of the few men on earth that isn't stricty tits and ass. I enjoy looking at a beautiful woman's (ie. Trish) face.

 

But, in the sake of hideously bad failed comedy, they inist on covering it up with a fucking noseguard.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

He nose isn't really broken, dummy.

[Guest Anglesault]

He nose isn't really broken, dummy.

And I said it was, where, exactly?

[AndrewTS 0]

the only problem with her is that they continue to basically describe her as a slut. what slutty thing has she done lately? (besides the mnf parody) sure if you go back to 2001 and the vince mcmahon affair, but in 2004 what? she chose christian over jericho? that makes her a slut ? huh?

It was implied she was the meat in a Christian/Tomko sandwich.

[Guest Anglesault]

the only problem with her is that they continue to basically describe her as a slut. what slutty thing has she done lately? (besides the mnf parody) sure if you go back to 2001 and the vince mcmahon affair, but in 2004 what? she chose christian over jericho? that makes her a slut ? huh?

It's worse when you consider that her face opposition IS a slut.

[Guest wildpegasus]

too bad shes from canada

 

 

LMAO JK

That makes her all the better though. If I could quote Don Cherry, "She's a good Canadian."

 

 

Being from Canada makes you tough. It's the weather. You have no choice. Especially if you come from North Grant or Halifax. This is why all the great and toughest wrestlers are from Canada or have roots in Canada. Even Rocky had to train in Canada for his biggest challenge in Rocky IV. That wasn't Russia he was in training. It was British Columbia baby. That's why Ivan Drago lost. He wasn't training right.

 

 

WP -- Who says himself, RRR, Canadian Chick and Jericho2000mark can take anyone on this board in any kind of wrestling match.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Exactly.

 

All this "No War" and "Shitty Army" stuff comes from our toughness. We are so confident that we can rip out any given persons liver from their body that we can afford to act timid. But don't fuck with Canada. Seriously, protect yo liver.

[Guest StylesMark]

Splitting her and Christian up was a fucking stupid idea.

I agree with that. I know Christian was gone for a while, but it made no sense for them to split at that time. I was really digging them.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

If Molly was to not only bring back something like her original character, but also bring back her WCW moveset, I think she'd be quite over as a babyface.

 

I think this would be a really bad idea. As much as Trish has improved there's no way she could keep up with Molly working at a 100% and with all her moves.