Buff Bagwell

[Black Lushus]

am I on drugs or did he wrestle at least one match on WWE TV when the Invasion first started? I can't remember for the life of me...

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

He wrestled Booker T on Raw in Tacoma, in a match so bad that it caused Vince to change the course of the whole Invasion angle.

[Guest LooneyTune]

A match so bad the crowd was sitting on their hands 3 seconds into it. A match so bad it made Giant Gonzales look like a world class athlete.

[Precious Roy]

But seriously, what the FUCK was Vince thinking putting BUFF BAGWELL in a RAW main-event? God, that was just retarded. And the whole idea of booking WCW matches as a seperate thing on a WWF card was just so wrong.

 

The only cool thing about it was that they had AA on commentary

[Guest LooneyTune]

They only had DDP and Booker T, and why waste DDP vs. Booker T the first night? Of course, I think it happend anyway the next Smackdown, but maybe they were looking for a reason to fire Bagwell. (he was rubbing everyone the wrong way before he even debuted on TV)

[Black Lushus]

that's right, I remember now...thanks guys!

[Youth N Asia]

According to Buff's shoot interview, the match was doomed from the beginning cause WCW didn't run through that town...so THAT'S why fans poo poo'd on the match. Not cause it was bad and he's a shit worker or anything.

[Guest Loss]

There were no intentions of picking up Bagwell based on his reputation at first, but when he got the female pop when Vince did his promo the night of the last Nitro, they decided to give him a chance. Vince had the right mindset prior to the inVasion starting, but he let both the top talent and people like Kevin Dunn influence him in the wrong way, and it ended up being booked to appease the WWF guys.

 

Dunn's mindset was that they had worked hard to build up the WWF guys as something special and didn't need to use them to get over unproven WCW guys who led a company out of business. He declared this in a memo at the very beginning of the angle, and Vince listened to him.

 

Vince has a habit of that -- he knows the right thing to do, and most of the ideas start off on the right track, but once the agents and wrestlers get a hold of them, they turn into something totally different.

[Guest Coffey]

I remember wishing Vampiro would show up. Instead I got Mike Awesome bombing some cat on a ladder backstage to win the shitty ass hardcore belt.

 

 

Stacy's "distraction" and Lance Storm's superkick both made me mark out though.

[Special K]

The second I knew the invasion was doomed was when Hardcore fucking Holly beat Mike Awesome clean on Heat. Awesome was one of the few guys they brought who could have been huge in the WWF, and they were jobbing him to a jobber weeks into the storyline.

 

Back to the topic at hand, wasn't Shane-o a big fan of Buff's?

[Guest Loss]

He was in 1997 and 1998, yes.

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

The second I knew the invasion was doomed was when Hardcore fucking Holly beat Mike Awesome clean on Heat. Awesome was one of the few guys they brought who could have been huge in the WWF, and they were jobbing him to a jobber weeks into the storyline.

Well, that's what you get when you can't work 'main event style'.

[Guest LooneyTune]

The plus of the Invasion: New matches that we haven't seen before.

 

The Bad of the Invasion: Everything else fucking imaginable. And Vince not signing STING!

[1234-5678]

Awesome was an exciting worker, a 280 pound guy who could do high flying shit. Therefore, he must be toned down and fired immediately!

[Guest OSIcon]

Granted, I only saw the the Bagwell/Booker match once (when it originally aired), but my initial thought was that the match wasn't really as bad as it was made out to be. It wasn't a good match by any means, but popular opinion has it has being the kind of completely terrible match that you rarely see.

 

It seemed to me that the match failed for two reasons. One, it wasn't that great. However, it also failed because it was two guys who the majority of WWF fans viewed as mid carders from a "weaker" promotion, wrestling in the main event of a RAW they paid good money to see. I remember there being a bit of unrest from the crowd before the whole thing even began and I can certainly understand the crowd having that feeling (if they indeed did).

 

Not excusing the match quality or anything, but I think the people that make it out to be one of the worst matches ever and only blame the match quality for the whole thing failing are a little off with their assessment.

[Precious Roy]

It was your standard * match, albeit a 15 minute one, but there were SO many factors conspiring against it that it deserves all the hate it gets.

[cawthon777]

According to Buff's shoot interview, the match was doomed from the beginning cause WCW didn't run through that town...so THAT'S why fans poo poo'd on the match. Not cause it was bad and he's a shit worker or anything.

The match was in Tacoma, WA, the same site as WCW Spring Stampede 99.

 

I don't remember any of the fans crapping on that show.

[1234-5678]

It was your standard * match, albeit a 15 minute one, but there were SO many factors conspiring against it that it deserves all the hate it gets.

A 7 minute chinlock didn't help matters much.

[MillenniumMan831]

I'll never forget that chinlock. I honestly thought an agent told them to execute a super long rest hold to make the comeback seem more exciting or something.

 

As for when I knew the InVasion was screwed was when The Acolytes beat O'Haire/Palumbo clean and convincingly at the InVasion ppv. It left kind of a funky feeling with me seeing it live that they couldn't put a young up and coming team over an established team who will always have heat w/ the drinking gimmick . . . even if it was a totally cheap/unclean win.

 

Plus, when I saw interpromotional matches on Heat/Jakked, I knew the InVasion was dead.

[Special K]

Does anyone have a tape to time the chinlock? It was ridiculously long. So long that people on this board are remembering a chinlock, myself included. (also memorable due to the insane heat it generated, which Buff probably took to mean he was getting over huge as a heel.)

[Guest zapjaste]

I don't think it was as bad as people make it out too be, but seeing how smarks hate Buff Bagwell with a passion, they'll say so. Unfortunately, it wasn't great, which is why it's considered bad as the first ever WCW match should have been legendary. It was really no worse than your typical TV match. Because it was a "WCW match", the audience was going to crap on it no matter what, and there just wasn't much Buff and Booker could do to change the crowd's minds.

[reign]

It drives me crazy to think about this sometimes. The other day I was listening to a radio show from that time as the Invasion was just getting started and they were talking like Vince had all of these plans for a real WCW brand which would've been so much better than the eventual roster spilt that we saw but they also said that Booker T and Bagwell were putting crowds to sleep at house shows prior to Raw so Vince should've known better! They could've done a tag match with Booker and somebody against DDP/Bagwell with a UT and Austin run in were UT hits Austin on accident or something. It could've at least protected these guys that were already shell shocked. Vince allowed it to fail and by doing so KILLED the biggest money angle in the history of wrestling. And considering that within a year the NWO, EB,Flair and Goldberg were all in the WWE anyways they could've easily had Sting come in and if they needed WCW jobbers so bad bring in Jarrett and Luger but Vince and crew screwed it all up. It will never go away and I doubt wrestling will ever be able to get back to the level it was at again because there are NO MORE big money angles left to do.

[Scroby]

To me the invasion was doomed when JR said this little line.

 

JR: Booker T thinks he's Ric Flair!

 

Thats when I knew the invasion angle was doomed espically since Booker T at the time was acting nothing like Flair. WWE screwed up by having Buff Bagwell do his first apperance by main eventing. No one had seen him wrestle in a few months and then all of a sudden he was main eventing Raw, it made no sense. Booker T vs Lance Storm or Hugh Morris, or even Mike Awesome would have made sense but Buff certinaly did not! I also think when the whole direction of the invasion angle turned, it went bad. When it first started out WWE fans were cheering the WCW guys then as the weeks went on, WWE made their fans start booing the WCW guys. If anything WWE should have their fans both cheer and boo the WCW guys, not one way or another. I hope you guys get what I'm saying, its sorta hard to explain.

[Black Lushus]

I know exactly what you mean which goes to show Vince definently did not intend to keep anything WCW-wise going...faces in WCW still shoulda been faces, heels shoulda been heels...instead Vince had EVERYONE who wasn't WWE be heels...so when it's all said and done, all he did was trim the fat to totally bury WCW and ECW and give us this lame ass brand split which clearly is not working right now...

[Si82]

According to Buff's shoot interview, the match was doomed from the beginning cause WCW didn't run through that town...so THAT'S why fans poo poo'd on the match. Not cause it was bad and he's a shit worker or anything.

The match was in Tacoma, WA, the same site as WCW Spring Stampede 99.

 

I don't remember any of the fans crapping on that show.

Indeed they didn't.

 

The crowd was hot for Spring Stampede '99.

 

Mind you the crowd didn't even give the match a chance. But that's what will happen when you constantly bash the competition and then try to present it as being on the same level as the WWF. After all, Vince told them WCW was crap.

[Guest LooneyTune]

It's not like Vince was lying It definitely was crap, with 1 good year mixed in 5 or 6 bad ones. For every 1996 there's a 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994, and 1995. From October 99-on the company was the worst thing ever (burns tapes I bought recently). The WCW roster for the invasion was crap too.

[King Cucaracha]

It's not like Vince was lying It definitely was crap, with 1 good year mixed in 5 or 6 bad ones. For every 1996 there's a 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994, and 1995. From October 99-on the company was the worst thing ever (burns tapes I bought recently). The WCW roster for the invasion was crap too.

Watch Survivor Series 2001, at the end where they show the two locker rooms. The Alliance had much the stronger roster in name and talent. Trouble was, nearly everyone was at the same sort of level in The Alliance. The WWF was mostly made up of the TOP guys (minus 2 and maybe RVD) and the lower level guys like Crash and Funaki.

 

It was all down to booking.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

You also have to remember that the people at that RAW bought tickets to see RAW, not NITRO.

[Scroby]

You also have to remember that the people at that RAW bought tickets to see RAW, not NITRO.

 

What makes you sure since WCW wrestlers were being advertised as well plus when the match was annouced the crowd cheered?

[Guest LooneyTune]

It seemed like most of the Alliance were midcarders, but when comparing them to some of WWE Guys (like mentioned Crash, Funaki, Scotty 2 Hotty) they looked a lot better.

 

Over the next year or so, Vince signed Hogan, Nash, Hall, Flair, Dustin Rhodes, Curt Hennig, Goldberg, Steiner, and probably a few other guys who could've helped in a WWF vs. WCW feud. Instead, we had 1 WCW Main Eventer (Booker T), DDP getting screwed over, and... thats about it, against The Rock, Angle, Jericho, Undertaker, etc.