Hitler

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

If the subject really interests you, I'd recommend reading Alan Clark's "Barbarossa: The Russian-German Conflict 1941-1945." Excellent book.

 

Also Albert Seaton's "Russo German War, 1941-45", another great read.

The subject more than interested me as I was a history major; I've since graduated.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

In conclusion, if Germany would have started in March they still wouldn't have completely conquered Russia by the time the winter set in, and the Russians would have still beat them knowing the circumstances then surrounding the two countries.  Now if Russia had weather like Hawaii then they would have most likely lost, but they don't, and Russia as we know it today has never been conquered because they possess the space, numbers, and weather to never let their country be conquered by outside forces.

A few errors:

 

Sept-Dec 1941: Operation Typhoon (part of the Barbarossa campaign - which, btw, totally decimated the Russian infantry upon its invasion)

 

This was the advance upon Moscow. This is when centre army group made its thrust into Moscow. Again, the three army system of Germany (north, center, and south) was good in theory, Hitler just made a few poor judgments. Anyway, by October the German's had continued to make amazing progress and were about a few KM's from capturing Moscow. They were right on its door step, having taken nearly half a million Russians captive. THE RUSSIANS WERE SO WORRIED MOSCOW WAS ABOUT TO BE CAPTURED THAT THE TRANSFERED ALL OF THIS HISTORICAL ARTIFACTS OUT OF MOSCOW. It was at this time that the weather turned bad. The weather got wet and cold. The Germans were not prepared. But they still had all of the momentum. Had they not been tripped up by the weather, I am almost certain they would've captured Moscow; which would have meant certain defeat. Stalin finally comes out of hiding when he recognizes that the German's offensive has stalled. They cannot go anywhere because they were ill equipped. He gave an uplifting speech on Russia's independence day to rally all citizens to unite against the prone German infantry. They were able to bring soldiers from the south and POUND the German's with a counter defensive in December. They pushed the German's out of the proximity of Moscow; a position they never reached again. It was at this point, with Pearl Harbor just occuring, that Germany officially had no solid chance of defeating the Allies alone. But there was a VERY serious period when Russia looked to fall to Germany. Time was on the Russians side, as even if Germany had invaded when they wanted to, Russia would not have been able to bring 1 millino soliders from the south, and the Germans would not have been preoccupied with the mere fact of suriving the winter, let alone FIGHTING IN IT.

 

Moreover, don't discount the fact that Stalin had pretty much purged his entire army during the Great Terror years. They were not a strong army, they simply had tons of numbers at their disposal. While numbers do seem to be the reason for Russia's ultimate victory, keep in mind they had suffered quite the humble defeat to the military power house Finland in 1938-1939. Judging by that, it is difficult to postulate if the numbers meant more than the weather. I am still on the basis that weather played a bigger role in all of this; even in 1942 with Germany's Operation Uranus. The German's had an outside chance of winning that one, and it was a very serious threat.

 

And in the north, there was the Siege of Leningrad that continued on for nearly 3 years. There were so many elements in the Germany-Russian conflict that it is impossible to state that there is no way Germany would have defeated Russia.

[Precious Roy 0]

anyway, my original point was that there was more to the Native American genocide then JUST racial motivations; while it's debatable how large a role it played, I think that the desire for the Native's land/gold played a part in it. Like, I suppose that if the Natives had nothing of worth and the land wasn't worth living on, they just would've started another slave trade there and shipped them back to Europe by the boatload. So while I agree that race did play a role, I think that there were also other motivations that Hitler did not have when he decided to kill all the Jews.

 

Well, Hitler had simmilar motivations as well, the confiscation of Jewish wealth and property as well as the desire to not have to share the "fatherland" with what he deemed an inferior race. All that is also true of the American pioneers' slaughter of the Native Americans. The situations are comparable, though we tend not to look at Manifest Destiny in that way as it's been glorified by American history.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

The British colonizers attempted to assimilate the Indian peoples, strip them of their culture, exploit their land, steal their resources, and enslave them. In a lot of instances, they were killed for not following the rules. Never was there a concrete plan to rid the North America of the Indian peoples by slaughtering them all. The coloniers simply wanted to live a prosperous life with/without the Indians. I don't see the corelation at all between the Jews and Indian peoples of N. America.

[Nighthawk 0]

A single death is a tragedy, a Million deaths is a statistic

 

- Stalin

Actually that was Marilyn Manson.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Stalin's quote was more like "When a one person dies, it's a tragedy. When a million people die, it's a statistic."

[Guest Quik]

Personally, I always thought the initial booking around WWII would have been a horrible route to go. I heard that before they decided to go with the Atomic Bomb finish, the plan was for Churchill to turn heel on the U.S. and allign himself with the Japanese. This would put Hitler in an ankward spot due to past history with Churchill, he would become a tweener before making a full face turn. There was another rumoured finish, one that involved the Jews revealing that they were in on the Holocaust, swerving the Allies and giving Hitler a short reign as World Champion before eventually dropping the title to one of the allies, who would then face each other at Wrestlemania. That's what Russo was pushing, at least.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

 

This year I've read a few books in English LOF(Lord Of The Flies) and Macbeth and both show that nobody is clearly evil.

They also show that neither William Shakespeare nor William Golding can write worth shit.

I was just skimming the thread. This poster's even dumber than the Hitler guy and it needed to be mentioned.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

He's no Danielle Steele, that's for sure.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I guess it was just a matter of time before some tool tried to be funny and talk about WWII in lame rasslin' terms.

 

2001 called for you, Quik. It wants its overused humor back.

[Ripper 0]

Why is everyone talking like there can't be two evil people in the world? Just because some other fuck was just as evil or evil...er...than hitler doesn't make Hitler any less evil.

 

I mean i am short...just because I see people shorter than me all the time doesn't mean I am fucking tall now.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Wait, Ripper, you just brought something even more important than Hitler, anti-semitism, and WW2 to the table ...

 

... you're short?!?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

 

This year I've read a few books in English LOF(Lord Of The Flies) and Macbeth and both show that nobody is clearly evil.

They also show that neither William Shakespeare nor William Golding can write worth shit.

I was just skimming the thread. This poster's even dumber than the Hitler guy and it needed to be mentioned.

I was about to say the same thing. His name should be changed to reflect this. Even if people don't understand it they understand the significance of Shakespeare's work.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Ripper's a fuckin' dwarf.

[Ripper 0]

I'd be tall if I were a woman. So....THERE!!!

[Tawren 0]

 

This year I've read a few books in English LOF(Lord Of The Flies) and Macbeth and both show that nobody is clearly evil.

They also show that neither William Shakespeare nor William Golding can write worth shit.

I was just skimming the thread. This poster's even dumber than the Hitler guy and it needed to be mentioned.

I was about to say the same thing. His name should be changed to reflect this. Even if people don't understand it they understand the significance of Shakespeare's work.

He's famous. He certainly isn't good.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

 

This year I've read a few books in English LOF(Lord Of The Flies) and Macbeth and both show that nobody is clearly evil.

They also show that neither William Shakespeare nor William Golding can write worth shit.

I was just skimming the thread. This poster's even dumber than the Hitler guy and it needed to be mentioned.

I was about to say the same thing. His name should be changed to reflect this. Even if people don't understand it they understand the significance of Shakespeare's work.

He's famous. He certainly isn't good.

Yeap, he's only famous. He isn't talented at all. He's a hack who is only called the best because he is popular, one of those kinds of guys. No talent in that fucker.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

He's famous. He certainly isn't good.

You're kidding. How old are you and how much Shakespeare have you read? The man was a master of character, of fusing pathos and comedy, and of uncovering the darkest parts of humanity. The arc of modern drama and literature goes through Shakespeare almost universally, and is far better for it. I'll slam you in Compton and blast you in Miami if you think you can contend otherwise.

[... 0]

Balls. I'm in a theatrical career and when I stack Shakespeare up against someone like say, Pinter, Ionesco, or Buchner, he's comparable. Not superior. I'll take Woyzeck over Hamlet any day of the week.

 

If we're talking in literary terms, then yeah, Shakespeare's pretty damn good. Macbeth rocks my world. King Lear and Richard III are nice too. The rest, hit and miss. Romeo and Juliet is full of cardboard characters. Winter's Tale is comedy in name only.

 

Greatest Playwright Ever? Maybe Bill's on the podium, but he ain't going home with the gold.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I won't take Woyzeck, because while it's interesting, it's still too caught up in the trappings of the 19th century melodrama and well-made play. Since Shakespeare, especially in the modern period, there have been many playwrights you can argue are far superior. In terms of staging he was fairly conventional, so of course someone like Pirandello or even Tony Kushner is going to have a leg up on the actual stage composition and the fusion of visual and movement with the text. He remains great, though.

[Nighthawk 0]

I wasn't aware that the Captain of Outer Space was homosexual.

[... 0]

Then come a little closer, IDRM, AND FIND OUT FO' SHO'!

[Art Sandusky 0]

My New Year's Resolution is to find out who Captain of Outer Space is.

[... 0]

Trying to come back to "you're gay" is like trying to come back to "yo mamma" jokes.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

I hate Shakespeare. I foolishly signed up for a "Studying the Canon" English course. Its hell. As long as I scrap by, I don't care. But for some reason I am doing okay, wait until the final comes around and the truth comes out I didn't read any of the assigned readings. Unless they are sonnets.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Trying to come back to "you're gay" is like trying to come back to "yo mamma" jokes.

Who are you, dude. I don't want to have to stick to this resolution for long.

[... 0]

ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT THE CAPTAIN OF OUTER SPACE:

 

J. Adams.

Cowtown, Alberta.

Age: 25

Eyes: Average

Hair: Average

Weight: Average

Height: Average

Number of fingers: 10

Number of toes: 10

Disposition: Even

Mood Code: Rotary Adjustable

[Art Sandusky 0]

There's no way you're not someone else, man. Like, another posting name.

[... 0]

SO SEZ YOU!

 

I invoke my Level 5 "Summon IllustriousOne."

[Styles 0]

I think it's Kotz. He's talking to himself for amusement. OMGWORKZ~!!